[Closed] Calais Migrant camp- a conversation

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I'd tell them that it's not that great here and that given half the chance, i'd be heading into other parts of Europe.

What would the good folk of STW have to say to these people?

If they were from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya, I might feel a strong urge to apologise.

I would tell them this is not the land of milk and honey they think it is, having said that its far better than a war torn country.

I'd say 'you wanted a new life in Europe. You're in France. You're already 'safe'. France has just as good standard of living to Britain. Plus way more mosques. And better weather. Just stay here ffs'...

I have a plan.
It's either really good or the first step to death camps.
The biggest threat to our country is having our energy controlled by other countries. Making us energy self sufficient should be our priority.
We have plans for tidal power and other projects.
They are all expensive.
The solution ...The British Foreign Legion.
Centres are set up over Europe where people can enlist and after sufficient checks are accepted.
For 3 years they will work on civil engineering projects ,such as the tidal projects and making,installing solar panels to every house. They receive food , accommodation and a little spending money as they would in the French Foreign Legion. English lessons would be provided if necessary.
After 3 years they have helped a country they really want to be in and are awarded citizenship.
Of course they could bugger off on day one but we will know who they are where they come from and as such could be deported if caught.

after 3 years they have helped a country they really want to be in and are awarded citizenship.

and what exactly did you do to achieve your citizenship zippykona?

Or were you just born here? Is that [i]your [/i]claim to entitlement on this bit of rock?

Where else should I live?
What entitles you to live in your house?
A situation exists, people will try and die to get here.
Let's come to an arrangement that benefits everyone .

let them come and go as they please, just like we can in most places we wish to travel to.
if they decide to settle they will soon either work, sign on or move somewhere else....just like we british folk do.

Are you seriously suggesting that we give brown people the same rights to travel the globe that those of a more pasty complexion take for granted?

No... I'm sorry.... we can't be having any of that, I'm afraid.

we are all the same in the eyes of god. so, yes

Gosh Binners - they're not all Brown, some will be Olive skinned I imagine. You are so blinkered!

Where outside Europe can a British citizen work without a visa?
All the stamps in my passport say employment prohibited.

Wot ton said. The world has changed, everyone's more mobile and I don't see why we should be barring access to people based solely on where they happened to be born.

a more pasty complexion

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let them come and go as they please, just like we can in most places we wish to travel to.
if they decide to settle they will soon either work, sign on or move somewhere else....just like we british folk do.

So for example an i just able to permanently up sticks and migrate to australia? or the US? Not without jumping through alot of hoops i cant...

I think that the same should apply here, if you want to live and work here you need to be able to demonstrate you bring required skills and exp into our country

unless of course you have a genuine reason for seeking asylum..

I would listen to their stories, wish them good luck and to stay safe. I don't think any country is worth dying for trying to get in.

I don't think any country is worth dying for trying to get in.

For the refugees, they are not dying to get in. They are dying trying to make sure they don't have to go back.

Economic migrants, not so much and I agree with your point.

There was ano interview on the radio with a bloke from Syria, his brother had been called up to fight, killed, he was next. His options were to fight for the regime, which he didn't support or join isis, which he didn't support. What would you do? I think sometimes we lose sight of what are a whole lot of individual human tragedies, not just a set of numbers, or scroungers. These are desperate times, thank god it's not happening here

So if you were called up to fight for your country and didn't agree you would leave?

It is a tragedy but it should be a local solution. The neighbouring countries in the Arab world should take them in. They can then easily go back once the wars over. It would also focus the neighbouring countries on supporting a solution instead of fueling the war. Moving them half way around the world isn't a solution. You seem to miss the point that an asylum seeker should seek asylum in the first country they come to. Not the umpteenth.

What he said
we should be able to bomb the shit out of impoverished nations after decades of instability and then leave their equally impoverished neighbours to deal with the problems we created. If folk die its not our problem as they are not British and lets be honest that is all that matters.

Unless they are good at a sport we like [ or very rich] in which case they can have a passport.

I have asked before with no luck.
Do we know the figures for people (especially amongst men of conscription age) leaving the UK for the Irish Republic during the second world war?
My parents aren't aware of anyone.

I recall talking to a chap who's grandfather was a Scots Nationalist & who refused to fight during WWII saying it was an "English war". Apparently he scarpered for the Irish Republic & got in with the IRA boys.
Mind you, his other grandfather did fight - for the 14th Galicia SS 😯

EDIT: Ynuki I am not sure waistband ask then, perhaps why have you chosen this route,missy and expensive, vs arriving by plane with a visa ? The fact is the UK is a land of milk and honey relative to where these people have come from. I understand totally why they'd rather live in the UK

The majority of the Calais migrants are not from places the UK has "bombed the shit out of", they are from sub Saharan Africa.

I have no issue with asylum seekers or economic migrants wanting to come to Britain, we should have a an application system - oh hold on a minute we do do, it's just these people are trying to evade it and throwing away their passports so they can't be deported

When I was at secondary school in the 80s, my best mate was Iranian..

He and his sister and their parents had escaped across the desert on camels, escaping conscription..
My mate was shot in the shin at age 12 whilst serving in the Iran/Iraq war..
He always maintains the hardest part of being a child soldier was the weight of his gun..

Do you have evidence to back up your claims Jambalaya?
I have no idea what I could possibly say to those people that wouldn't make me feel like a bloated bourgeois zombie maggot

I want everyone coming to the UK to be subject to the same rules as does an Indian, American or Austalian for example.

I travel though the tunnel at least once a month, we see dozens one people by the roadside all are clearly African and young males. This ties in with what I see on TV and what I've read on numerous news sources. As you know I've been following the immigration issue for years, have a watch if the excellent Europe or Die series on Vice News. I was shocked about the Moroccan / Spanish border (the Spanish have a couple of ports in North Africa which are Spanish territory)

There were 25,020 asylum applications (main applicants) in the YE March 2015, an increase of 5% compared with the previous 12 months (23,803). The number of applications remains low relative to the peak number of applications in 2002 (84,132). The largest number of applications for asylum came from nationals of Eritrea (3,552), followed by ****stan (2,421) and Syria (2,222).

[url= http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2015/stb-msqr-may-2015.html ]Migration Statistics Quarterly Report, May 2015 - ONS[/url]

After seeing all the TV news reports, looking at the many photos taken and interviews, I'd ask 'where are all the women and children?'. The majority of people that appear are males between 18 and 35, hardly ever do you see women and children, or the elderly. Are they content to stay in deplorable conditions or are the men trying to get to the UK and then establish themselves to bring their family at a later date?

I think it's tragic what our reaction to the migrant crisis says about us as a nation. About what we've become. Cold-hearted, insular, and cruel. Happy to abandon people to their fate, with a nonchalant shrug. Have we lost our humanity completely? It would appear so.

These people - and they are people, not a 'marauding swarm' - are fleeing horrors we can barely imagine. Yet what is our reaction to this. We tell them we're not here to try and address this. Not our problem. Just **** off back to where you came from, as we turn away and get on pursuing our own selfish, greedy agendas. We have allowed our compassion to be hijacked by small minded and uncaring racists, who now dictate the terms of our national debate.

When you were born in a safe, rich, peaceful stable country you won life's lottery. Have the good grace to acknowledge that fact, and accept that we have a moral obligation to help these people.

I despair at what we've become

We've become? There has always been that element within the UK, migrants have been treated with suspicion and hostility for as long as I can remember. Unfortunately it seems people have become swayed by the mass hysteria that has been so skilfully created.

I'm all for helping people who genuinely need it, and there are a great deal that do. What we need is an efficient and rigorous system that can ensure those that need help get it, those who are working their ticket get dropped on their arse. The UK has enough of its own citizens who are a burden by choice and have no wish to be anything more, but the system we currently have is under-funded, under-staffed and under-resourced.

But if we try to address the issues in their home we'll be seen as imperialists, and all the other bollocks some espouse on here. I would much rather go to Eritrea and beat the crap out of the criminals that take all the international aid for themselves, than some of the other jaunts I've been on. Some of these countries have woefully inept security forces that could do with rigorous training and funding to ensure the security of their own people.

yunki - Member
What would the good folk of STW have to say to these people?

Q1. Are/were you an Afgan interpreter for the forces? If you are/were Not we don't want you. (these are the people we should help) But we might help you if you can answer the questions below ...

Q2. Do you have fat gene and if you do we don't want you because we have enough of them here.

Q3. Are you beautiful? If we deem that you are not we don't want you coz we have plenty of them here.

Q4. Do you eat pork? If not you better start trying coz we don't have goats.

Q5. Are your next generations going to impose your belief on us since you will definitely multiply more than us? No, this is Not your home unless you can prove that the Roman kidnapped your ancestors ...

Q6. How do you intend/propose to pay back the "free" money you get while here? Can we levy extra tax on you if you decide to stay on for the next few generations?

Q7. Are you grateful? How do you intend to demonstrate that?

Q8. Do you think you have rights to be here?

Q9. Are you tolerant of other beliefs? We have plenty of idols worshipers here ...

10. What can you contribute to our society assuming that you have decided that you have the right to be here forever?

Ya, I know ... it's human questions. 😯

Oh ya I don't care who you are but if you can fulfill all the questions above you are welcome. Skin colour is of no concern to me.

The majority of the Calais migrants are not from places the UK has "bombed the shit out of", they are from sub Saharan Africa

You may have shot the wrong messenger there
FACE PALM.

What Binners says if you say anything else you have no humanity or empathy

Many on here , and many of our fellow citizens are failing the Turing Test here.
You just dont care as money matters to you more than the suffering of people.

I'd rather let in 100 people who 'shouldn't be here' than refuse one person who genuinely needs help. Stupid petty borders.

I'd tell them that it's not that great here and that given half the chance, i'd be heading into other parts of Europe.

poly - Member

I'd tell them that it's not that great here and that given half the chance, i'd be heading into other parts of Europe.

there is free movement of UK citizens across Europe so you have more than half-a-chance. Man up and get on with it.

Or try to change it.

The migrants are doing just that, man up etc, see where they are now? Ya, on the run.

You don't try you never know, the migrants try and they succeed. Simple.

Junky - bear in mind that you are talking to someone who finds a moral justification for napalming Palestinian children. Don't expect much sympathy for the victims of Assad or Isis.

jambalaya - Member

The majority of the Calais migrants are not from places the UK has "bombed the shit out of", they are from sub Saharan Africa.

CITATION NEEDED

It's a side issue, since it's obviously not a prerequirement that a refugee or asylum seeker should be from somewhere we've personally trashed. But still. Genuine numbers seem hard to come by, but the majority of migrants in europe aren't african (half come from syria and afghanistan alone), and the majority are at least eligible to apply for asylum (70%). The population of the jungle might be different of course.

@Northwind you obviously didn't read my post where I gave my citation. See the other posters saying the same thing.

@binners we are one of the most generous nations in terms of international aid with a commitment to a fixed percentage of GDP despite cutting budgets/spending. We are one of ten largest donors to support refugee camps, for example in Jordan. There are more ways of supporting people than encouraging them to come and live here.

We have 10,000 asylum seekers who have absconded after having exhausted all means of appeal.

@DrJ the thread is about Calais, there are very few Syrians in Calais it's mostly sub-Saharan Africans. We won't see many Syrians in Calais going forward as Germany has pledged to accept all Syrian asylum seekers. The estimates are they will see migrants jump from 215,000 so fat this year to 800,000. There is a great deal of concern in Germany as to how these people will be accommodated

Todays offering (from Anastasia Meldrum on FB)

I went to Calais with no expectation. Full of fear that the atrocities I had seen in the media might be correct and that the people there were in fact the monsters that that have been portrayed. Was I self entitled and feeling guilty? Perhaps. Was I scared that I was leading other people to believe that there were good people in the jungle and I might be wrong? Maybe. Was I full of hope that everything above would be overcome by the reality of the plight we would encounter. I hoped so.

My visit to ‘The Jungle' in Calais - As we arrived on the dunes and saw the camp for the first time I couldn’t help but feel shocked…. It is a vast expanse of tarpaulin and structures that are similar to slums. Shocking and disorganised to the naked eye. There was that fear again - ‘Are we doing the right thing?’ ‘Have we made a massive mistake?’
Driving in didn’t feel any better. We couldn’t get hold of our contact and had nowhere to drop the thousands of pounds worth of goods we had received in donations from friends. There were Refugees surrounding our truck asking what we had and if we could give them any shoes or sleeping bags. I felt scared and unprepared.

As we were devising a plan, we saw a British lady walking around, not a care in the world, laughing and smiling - A sigh of relief…. We got out of the car and asked for some advice.
‘Hi, I’m Liz! welcome! How are you? Where have you come from today?’
Liz gave us the contact of a man named George, the head of a charity named ‘Salam’. He and his wife Claudine have dedicated their retirement to helping the refugees coming in to the jungle and we were able to make an arrangement to meet them and drive to their deposit centre to drop our donations and make a plan for the next day.

Having slept and returning the next day we saw a very different picture…. The initial fear and anxiety we had ashamedly built from our own prejudice, melting away.
As we drove down the very same road, smiling faces and greetings came from all around us. ‘Hello! Welcome to our home!’ again and again. Those same curious faces didn’t seem so menacing after all, the menace was inside of us it would seem.
We drove down to Salam to organise donations of food. Each bag receiving 4 cans of mixed food - tomatoes, tuna, beans, rice, tea, milk, salt, and other items. We made 500 bags in total (The jungle currently has over 3,500 Refugees) and around 500 loaves of bread (France have an incredible policy that all food left from supermarkets must be donated to charity)
There were two planned dropping points - The first in the Afghanistan part of camp and the second in the Sudanese part of the camp. As soon as we arrived we saw people sprinting from all directions, desperate to get one of the packages. It was chaotic, we were screaming these people in to a line so the van wasn’t overcome. These people who have nothing. Proud people from their own countries. Doctors, electricians, carpenters all vying for the same goal - A meal.
My heart broke as we drove away, hundreds of desperate faces looking back at us because they didn’t run quite fast enough to make the drop off. Still waving and saying ‘thank you'

The second drop was far more calm. A better established part of town. As a man ate a croissant he looked at me and said ‘You have a kind heart. Thank you’

My heart broke again - I know nothing of kindness in comparison to his words. The compliment was all his.

Our next task was dinner service. The French Government supply 2,500 meals per day which equates to one meal for two thirds of the current inhabitants at the camp. I watched as at least 3,000 people queued at the singular dinner line from 1pm. Dinner starts at 5pm.
Dinner was cous cous, sausages and veg served by us in tiny portions. Every single person I served at that dinner line was utterly grateful, chatty and smiling - regardless of the fact it was now hammering rain and they were soaked and starving. They all looked at me with the eyes of ‘is that all!!’ but not one of them questioned it unless in jest. They were just grateful.
There was one man who really sticks in my mind - He was dignified and important, I could see that, yet here he was. He said thank you all the same but behind his eyes was devastation. Incomparable devastation.

Over the next two days we did more volunteer work. clearing litter in the camps, more distributions and sorting, Taking supplies to mothers/children and pregnant women, dinner services, first aid on the horrendous injuries we encountered - yet all of that pales in to insignificance in relation to the people;

There are things in that place that I have never been fortunate enough to encounter until now; Prevailing hope where all is lost, happiness in the face of aversion, a non-judgemental attitude even when pushed, a community spirit and pride in nothing and everything.
Within the confines of what is seen to be chaos and destruction, there is order and peace. Several countries unifying as one, Mosques and churches in the same space, small restaurants and shops, architecture, a school and a library for the children. A neighbourhood of people searching for a better way of life because they were forced to flee from their own homes.

I spoke with just two people hoping to claim asylum in England, the others I spoke to were seeking asylum or were already in the process in other EU countries. Contrary to belief, the £39 per week benefit system in the UK isn’t the driver for this community, the majority just want safety and a job.
Asylum can take up to two years in any country with no work offered in the interim so the jungle is a place of safety whilst they wait. It is their home. their desperate and beautiful home.
Interestingly, a person can’t claim asylum in the UK, regardless of their status until they set foot in Dover….. That can only be achieved by committing a crime in itself.

The 8 year old girl who had known more pain than I could ever imagine - She taught me French whilst translating English to other children in her native language. She laughed and played with us like she didn’t have a care in the world.

The man who I gave first aid to on a serious wound, who’s family are in England because he made them safe first.

The pregnant woman who prayed that her family aren’t dead.

The man walking home from the trains with 4 breaks in one leg because he lost all of his family in his country and wants to prove he can succeed in another.

I commend you.

I thought I knew pain, loss, fear, courage and appreciation. I know nothing in comparison to the people I met on our short stay to Calais.

The camp will be particularly needing volunteers over the winter. Do get in touch for details if you feel like you want to help.

xxx

She's only a young 'un and maybe she doesn't have the political insight and statistics that Jambalaya gets from watching television and reading his newspapers.. but there are these sorts of reports coming in daily now from ordinary people that have gotten off their butts to go over and see for themselves what is happening..

jambalaya - Member

@Northwind you obviously didn't read my post where I gave my citation.

Correct, because it doesn't exist. Unless it's in another thread in which case,

CITATION NEEDED

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29074736

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How many of those came in from Calais is unknown though.

it's mostly sub-Saharan Africans.

See the other posters saying the same thing.

I
I still cannot work out if this is a subtle piece of Chris Morris type satire or if you really think what you post are factual arguments/points.

I would trade one jambalaya for all those Calais migrants anyday.

Oh come on the third world has enough problems as it is

Imagine all the facts they would gain though.

What would the good folk of STW have to say to these people?

I'd tell them they should be claiming asylum in the first safe country. As they haven't and are economic migrants I'd tell them to go to the British Embassy in Paris and apply for a visa.

irc - Member

As they haven't and are economic migrants

Well if they are all merely "economic migrants" and not war refugees then you need to explain for example how come there weren't hundreds of Syrians in Calais 5 years ago.

Can you do that irc ?

Err we're full up....sorry but this being a small over- crowded small island hope you understand... thanks ...

Well if they are all merely "economic migrants" and not war refugees then you need to explain for example how come there weren't hundreds of Syrians in Calais 5 years ago.

Once they get to a safe country but choose not to claim asylum they become economic migrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_shopping

There is a great deal of concern in Germany as to how these people will be accommodated

I'm sure there is but hats offf to the Germans that they have chosen to do the humane thing first and worry about the details later. They put us to shame.

Will London be Mega City One with 800 million population one day? 😯

There was once a PM in the far east that saw the current situation coming to UK & EU. According to him just merely by population alone you would be dominated. Simple. 😮

It's a bit like salt innit? A little salt on your food taste good but if you consume a lot of it you will be sick.

irc - Member

Once they get to a safe country but choose not to claim asylum they become economic migrants.

So irc you can't explain why there weren't hundreds of Syrian "economic migrants" in Calais 5 years ago.

There's a surprise.

irc - Member

Once they get to a safe country but choose not to claim asylum they become economic migrants.

Mince. It is a consideration- the rules say they should stop where they arrive- but that doesn't mean they suddenly become an economic migrant!

The whole "first country" thing is obvious nonsense, mind... Obviously unfair, some countries are far easier to get to, why should they bear a disproportionate burden? Not to mention that there's perfectly legitimate reasons why an asylum seeker might be better travelling on to a second country- language barriers, existing communities, family or friends already there. The better the support network they can access, the less burden they'll be on the state. It's an incredibly simplistic approach that doesn't really work for anyone except for countries that are harder to get to.

I wouldn't normally suggest the Guardian as a source of balanced information but I found this article interesting: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis

A good question would be how can we help?

Reading that guardian article it is staggering the amount of Syrian refugees currently in Lebanon.

Is there any reason why we (ie NATO/UN) can't take over and secure a few of the emptier cities on the fringes of the conflict zones to act as temporary accommodation for those fleeing the area?

Surely it would be easier and safer to get aid to a few secured locations than forcing people all over the place where many come to harm or are being exploited by traffickers etc?

[quote=deadlydarcy opined]Imagine all the facts they would gain though.

Imagined facts are his raison d'etre so I shall leave that to him.

Surprisingly still no source for his claim after 24 hours googling 8)

The whole "first country" thing is obvious nonsense,

Not nonsense. The law.

. It's an incredibly simplistic approach that doesn't really work for anyone except for countries that are harder to get to.

Like the UK.

Germany is expecting 800'000 applications this year. If the UK was as easy to travel to we could expect a similar number. How many would you say we should take? Year after year.

We should help. By funding assistance in neighbouring countries using our aid budget - one of the biggest in the world.

The dublin convention - which exist primarily to stop assylum seekers applying in different EU countries - states that assylum should be applied for in the country which did biggest part in helping the person arrive in the EU.
That may be the first country but it may not . That is why it has clear protocols in place to allow the exchange of people so it is not true that they have to apply where ever they land

Our govt trots this out and the right wing press trot it out [ beacuse we are not the forst country if we wer ewe would hate it and tell the truth] but it it just not true
Can you give me the law please that says they must apply ?

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/asylum/examination-of-applicants/index_en.htm

Its just another one of those EU claims that we have all heard said so often that we think its true when it is just not the case.

They do not have to apply at the country of entry
Imagine you enter in Greece but you have family in France and you lived there for 5 years for example
you apply in France

FWIW Germany is allowing an extra 800 k this year due to need its ease of getting to it has nothing to do with this decision.

People look back at the holocaust and ask how we let it happen. Now I think we know.

DrJ. get a grip. This is nothing like the holocaust. Not even close.

They do not have to apply at the country of entry
Imagine you enter in Greece but you have family in France and you lived there for 5 years for example
you apply in France

Well by using family as the criteria - since the vast majority of existing Syrian asylum seekers are not in the UK then the vast majority of new ones will have family elsewhere in the EU. So should apply there.

Still waiting for anyone to say how many hundred thousand asylum seekers they think the UK should take.

DrJ. get a grip. This is nothing like the holocaust. Not even close.

The similarity is that people in desperate need are being denied help due to selfishness and willful ignoring of their situation

say how many hundred thousand asylum seekers they think the UK should take

Which ones are you ready to send back to Assad or ISIS?

Your understanding of the law is wrong are you accepting this or just ignoring it ?

My whole reply was saying you were wrong about the law and yet you did not even mention it 🙄
There is no "family criteria" to apply and your grasp of the law is matched only by your compassion.

DrJ. get a grip. This is nothing like the holocaust. Not even close.

EDIT:Must type quicker as it now looks like I copied Dr J

Nobody turned a blind eye in WW2 - we were fighting the war if you racall. The horrors of the holocaust were not discovered until after the war was over and we are still trying to learn the lessons 70 years on. And in anycase the sheer scale of today's crisis, which is mostly driven by economic migration, with a much lower proportion due to genuine asylum seeking, is just not even in the same galaxy, let alone the same universe.

Also we have tried to intervene in recent years, albeit for the wrong reasons in a lot of cases, and the general public have given the clear message to our politicians to not intervene in foreign affairs and in particular regime change, hence causing a lot of the migrant problems we're having to deal with today as our politicians are now paralysed with fear to do anything. They upset the public if we try to solve the root causes, and upset the public if they try to deal with the aftermath of our incapacity to do anything (in the context of protecting our boarders which is a popular view amongst the general populous). Oh the irony indeed. Tragic irony.

Perhaps it was being trolled, but I've noticed a large increase in commentators on the Guardian website posting [u]against[/u] mass immigration. Frank Fields has also written an article today in the (dareisayit) Mail on Sunday which paints the scale of the Calais problem in big letters.
We could soon be heading to a position in which the only interest groups who desire a continuation of mass immigration are big business and the radical left.

The guardian website has more RW folk than the DM website
Trolls want a reaction not affirmation

Decent people will always be willing to help the needy

irc - Member

Still waiting for anyone to say how many hundred thousand asylum seekers they think the UK should take.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain if they are all just "economic migrants" as you claim and not war refugees then why weren't there hundreds of Syrians in Calais 5 years ago?

It's a simple easy-to-understand question and yet you won't answer it irc.

Of course we all know that the answer is because there was no civil war in Syria 5 years ago but you can't bring yourself to say that because it would demolish your nonsensical claim that they are just "economic migrants".

Glitch post, PTO

Not read this thread, but there's going to be one (a camp of displaced people) up the road from me in the Netherlands soon. I might go visit.

250 people, apparently, outside a village.

I read a lot on this subject from numerous news sources and we drive through the tunnel at least once a month so we see the groups of people having about on the roadside. JY you are right I am making an assumption about nationality based on TV, reports and my own eyes but when the faces are very black and the news reports speak of sub Sharan African nations continually it's an obvious conclusion. If you think sub Saharan Africans are the minority show me some evidence which contradicts the dozens of news reports and images which show very much the opposite. As a final note why was the camp nicknamed "The Jungle", not very Middle Eastern is it ? Saw another documentary piece this time from France24 where the French military have 3000 troops in Algeria trying to stem the flow of immigrants from further South who are being trafficked by Islamist extremists as a way of finding their conflict.

Going forward there are going to be very few if any Syrians in Calais as Germany has said it will take all Syrians who apply. IMO asylum seekers from Middle East have been favouring other counties like Sweden who've been taking larger numbers. The Ger,and have been very naive in their ha doing of this as their statement has created a huge draw and sudden made rush which is overwhelming the countries en-route. Hungary has reacted with razor wire and will. Hold a permanent 100 mile 4 meter high wall.

Out the rest of today will catch up on threads tonight.

most of them are educated :

http://www.lepoint.fr/invites-du-point/jean-nouailhac/nouailhac-la-verite-sur-les-migrants-de-calais-31-08-2015-1960523_2428.php.

If you think sub Saharan Africans are the minority show me some evidence which contradicts the dozens of news reports and images which show very much the opposite

Can we not just issue border staff with a sort of Dulux colour chart, with a sliding scale of browness? Say from scottish blue-hued brilliant white, through to darkie double espresso. They can make any decisions on who to let in based on that

overcrowded are we ? --population of uk is about 60 million or so , if each person were to stand on a piece of ground three foot by three foot how much space would we all take up ?

be just under 20 square miles -4miles by 5 miles --thats not a huge area --the idea that we are overcrowded is a myth peddled by the usual crowd......its meaningless--and for what its worth this cuountry has always been a place of immigration....history checks that out...

[quote=rudebwoy said]
be just under 20 square miles -4miles by 5 miles --thats not a huge area --the idea that we are overcrowded is a myth peddled by the usual crowd......its meaningless--and for what its worth this cuountry has always been a place of immigration....history checks that out...

Oops, ignore me

These things are so simple, yet beyond Jamba

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-do-the-migrants-in-calais-want-to-come-to-the-uk/

Broken-shire also reported that the top five nationalities of those in Calais are Syrian, Eritrean, Sudanese, Iranian and Iraqi. This is similar to the top five countries of origin of those crossing the Mediterranean, reported by UNHCR to be Syria (34%), Afghanistan (12%), Eritrea (12%), Somalia (5%), Nigeria (5%). The Syrians are self evidently refugees.

But Jungle is a very African sounding word and that clearly trumps actual facts.

Sssssssh - if we acknowledge that they're a people fleeing a campaign of relentless brutality, with no end in sight, we might actually have to try and help them.

Best portay them as a bunch of scroungers instead.

Hey.... It worked with disabled people