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You'll be telling me next that there's a link between HIE and Morrison Construction 🙄
Kinda good news overall but....
The Scottish government agency said trains could be fully operational early next year.
But it added that project costs had risen from about £16m to £25m due to the impacts of Covid, Brexit and blizzards in spring hampering repairs.
The Scottish government had provided a £16m funding package towards the costs.
HIE said it had reallocated uncommitted funds from its wider Cairngorm snowsports centre masterplan capital investment package to meet the additional costs.
The agency added that the Scottish government also allocated £7m additional funding in June 2022.
Putting in magic carpets (like the Lecht) too for learners. Mustve found some money down the back of the sofa
Basturds
Blizzards in the Cairngorms in spring? Who could have predicted that?
The “company” “running” the ski infrastructure wanted to build a dry slop on a place (IIRC) called Windy Ridge FFS. And have it kept snow free using antifreeze.
I remember watching a BBC news special on global warming interviewing the guy running the snowmaking machines, who without a hint or irony was complaining that people needed to change their habits as running an enormous refrigeration machine outside was getting expensive as the climate warmed.
NO *ING * SHERLOCK! IT'S MACHINES LIKE THAT THAT ARE GOING TO END UP WITH NORFOLK UNDERWATER.
Perhaps they could stick some giant heaters on the beaches of the western isles so they can pretend it's the Maldives too.
Blizzards in the Cairngorms in spring? Who could have predicted that?
Chance in a million!
All joking aside, the engineering and construction logistics involved must be horrific - delicate and fragile land, hostile weather, fairly crap access and a very public project. I wouldn't have wanted to be the PM overseeing that job!
I also can't fathom why they didn't originally just whack in a gondola from Rothemurcas / Loch Morlich area to the carpark area with a second stage heaving up to the summit area.
Buzzards in the Cairngorms in spring? Who could have predicted that?
FTFY
I also can’t fathom why they didn’t originally just whack in a gondola from Rothemurcas / Loch Morlich area
That would be on FLS (ex Forestry Commission) land, not the bit owned by HIE.
[edit] they really need to make it obvious that you've skimmed past the 'next page' bit and missed a year of replies (or just get rid of the reply box).
That would be on FLS (ex Forestry Commission) land, not the bit owned by HIE.
When dealing with 10's if not 100's of million ££ projects - leasing land for the carpark / pylon access would be a comparatively easy and common thing to overcome with the landowner.
At one point in the past FCS (pre FLS) owned the forest AND the land the ski centre is on. A shocking £9 Million price increase, and they STILL can't say whether it will run for the majority of this ski season...
leasing land for the carpark / pylon access would be a comparatively easy and common thing to overcome with the landowner.
There is nothing easy about working with FLS. Nothing at all.
And now borked again (well snagging works)
https://www.hie.co.uk/latest-news/2023/august/25/cairngorm-funicular-temporarily-out-of-service/
Maintenance and remedial works needs to be done. Would you rather they just kept it running till it failed again?
According to my Facebook feed, the opening date has been set back to 'end of the year or early in new year', with season tickets on sale...and rumor that it may be March before it really is open.
hmmm.
Preparing "Shocked Pikachu face"
According to my Facebook feed, the opening date has been set back to ‘end of the year or early in new year’, with season tickets on sale…and rumor that it may be March before it really is open.
hmmm.
Whilst using the webcams last Monday in a vain attempt to make myself feel better whilst everyone I know locally with a more flexible job than mine was heading for the hills for a ski tour, I looked at the sheer volume of scaffold still attached to the concrete piles. If most of the work was done you'd have got most of it down before the snow came in and made it more challenging. The 'snagging' doesn't look like it's going to be finished any time soon.
Some of the messages from their team on the early bird ticket socials posts dripped with frustration and very much sounded like they were as much out of the loop with when it might be actually open as the general public.
In other news....a very sad day locally on Saturday when we lost a local, properly competent, ski mountaineer. Puts griping about a crappy funicular into perspective.
The Parkwatch blog has covered this saga over the years. A sorry tale. Seems concrete was a poor choice for this structure in this environment and similar mountain railways all over the world mostly use steel beams.
Latest of many posts at
https://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2024/11/11/concrete-and-its-use-on-the-funicular/
Some interesting points from what appear to be qualified people in the comments.
". It appears that at the most there are only three pillars in the 90 odd pillars which are fixed to bedrock, the rest essentially ‘float’ within the glacial till within Coire Cas,"
"Significantly, very little geotechnical investigations were conducted before the funicular was built in 2001, which in my book is negligence on behalf of the designer and constructor"
This crack was “observed for the first time” in the 2016 inspection when it was described as being a few cms. long. By the 2017 inspection it had increased to almost 9m! That is more than a crack, it is the top layer of concrete above the reinforcing rebars inside the beam delaminating. Was this caused by water ingress and rusting of the rebar at the insitu joint?
When water gets into a crack and then freezes it will cause damage at that point. The subsequent freeze thaw process, which in a mountain environment could happen several times a day, will gradually weaken and destroy the concrete joint. Eventually the water will work its way through a joint and when reaching the steel rebar will cause corrosion and then potentially delamination along the length of the rebar. Vibration caused by the train will exacerbate the situation.
What structural engineering genius thought that was an appropriate solution for the north of Scotland? Probably based in a posh office in Greenwich, instead of Greenock…
I’m in no way any sort of engineering expert, but even I can see the issues, the same sort that have plagued structures like the Westway carrying the M4 through Hammersmith.
Although that could be cavities caused by dead bodies dumped into the structure decomposing over the years…
What structural engineering genius thought that was an appropriate solution for the north of Scotland? Probably based in a posh office in Greenwich, instead of Greenock…
I believe, neither of those locations. Inverness (AF Cruden)
The Construction company mentioned is Edinburgh based.
Is the concrete in question the same kind as the stuff that made the news earlier this year - the stuff that resembles an inedible aero chocolate bar?
I’m in no way any sort of engineering expert, but even I can see the issues, the same sort that have plagued structures like the Westway carrying the M4 through Hammersmith.
Oh dear: The Westway does not “carry the M4 through Hammersmith”. I suspect you are confusing the Westway A40 through Notting Hill, the Hammersmith FlyoverA4 through Hammersmith, and the M4 elevated section around Brentford.
I only mention it because of your slightly sneering comment about structural engineers based in England being to blame for the funicular problems in Scotland - which ironically was also wrong.
Is the concrete in question the same kind as the stuff that made the news earlier this year – the stuff that resembles an inedible aero chocolate bar?
No, RAAC was a material/product developed to make panels that could be used in roofs, floors, walls etc. The problem with RAAC is most reinforced concrete relies on the steel being dry inside and protected from moisture, RAAC being aerated doesn't provide that protection so relied on some other external waterproofing.
There were other issues as well, like it being poorly made and the reinforcement not extending to the edges, which is a problem for a material designed to be supported only on the edges.
Or jus that it was a bit crap and it's not 60 years into it's 30 year design life.
I’m in no way any sort of engineering expert, but even I can see the issues, the same sort that have plagued structures like the Westway carrying the M4 through Hammersmith.
Reading that parkwatch report it sounds like the joints between the I-beams is/has failed, and that then causes the sections to sag as the train passes. Think about as the difference in stiffness of a slackline Vs a tightrope, the more you tension it the stiffer it is, remove that tension and you're left with just the stiffness of the material itself (marginally better if it's a concrete beam than a rope, but nowhere near as good a it should have been).
The problem in Hammersmith (and Genoa) was to do with jus the age of the structure. As water inevitably got in it caused the reinforcing cables to rust.
Looks like it is about to be closed again for more work.
https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/uks-highest-railway-to-close-again-two-months-after-reopening
🤣
scrap it, you’d get something for selling the parts to some Bulgarian ski resort or something
Looks like it is about to be closed again for more work.
They say that they're just bringing forward the annual maintenance from November but, even if that's the case, the optics are appalling.
They say that they're just bringing forward the annual maintenance from November but, even if that's the case, the optics are appalling.
Yup - bearing in mind it's only been open a fraction of the last 12 months (it opened 66 days ago), to have much to do for an annual service is a bit baffling.
I just don't think they can say 'snagging' again and keep a straight face.
Those repairs are a mess. The original design seems to have put the joint between the precast span and the insitu infill in exactly the worst place for cracks to form from shear load. That might not matter so much in direct structural terms as concrete should never be assumed to carry tension, but in that environment any cracks will allow freeze thaw. The external ties are presumably required because there wasn't enough shear reinforcement or because it's compromised by water ingress to the cracks. It's been designed by somebody with no understanding of how construction workers think, or Murphy's Law. (Digression - Murphy's Law is often thought to be the same as Sod's Law but isn't. Sod's Law is just the bad luck happens, the toast falls butter side down, while Murphy said that if your plan is flawed, that flaw WILL cause it to fail, so get rid of the flaw). Spherical washers sitting directly into the bushes would have been much more foolproof. A slight incline on the rods wouldn't stop them doing the job.
Toboggan ride at Cairngorm. Trying to justify the money wasted on the funicular ?
More than that - the whole Visitor Management situation is being reviewed so that it would allow walkers out of the top station after taking the funicular up and full-height MTB trails are being considered.
More than that - the whole Visitor Management situation is being reviewed so that it would allow walkers out of the top station after taking the funicular up and full-height MTB trails are being considered.
Why not? Coire Cas is ruined anyway. Won't be any worse with a few downhill tracks.
More than that - the whole Visitor Management situation is being reviewed so that it would allow walkers out of the top station after taking the funicular up and full-height MTB trails are being considered.
Probably overdue to be honest. Skiing / snowsports have a very unclear future in Scotland due to climate change. Increasing access and diversifying the activities on the mountain is probably the only way it can continue to operate.
As far as I recall, the original argument preventing access to the summit from the funicular was to limit the summer footfall on what is a very delicate, easily eroded, alpine tundra terrain. It had nowt to do with the snowsports. 😉
C.
If there was nothing on the mountain now then I am pretty sure it wouldn't be built there now. Fragile and rare ecosystem and all that. However we are where we are and if its to remain a resort it needs proper mountain bike trails. IMO its either stop throwing good money after bad or further development done as sympathetically as possible. It cannot struggle on as is.
I seem to remember before they built the current bike park thing they were offering bike rides down the mountain but you had to use their supplied bikes. Not sure if it actually happened as I didn't look into it again after that.
Even in winter it was always my least favourite of the Scottish resorts to go snowboarding (I'm a Glenshee die hard out of my "local" three, then Glencoe for the two further away).
they were offering bike rides down the mountain
Yeah, but it was shit. You had to descend the main access track, which is wide, steep and covered in loose gravel. I've ridden up and down it and wouldn't recommend it.
As @tjagain says, we are where we are. Maximising the use of Coire Cas barely affects the mountains as a whole and those in search of quite need only head around the corner for 10 minutes.
However, I don't think the upper corrie makes sense for MTB tracks. They will regularly be affected by wind and low cloud and will get the early snow. A much better idea would be to have tracks starting at Coire Cas then heading down to Glenmore. Once past the Sugar Bowl they'd be out of sight in the trees, ecologic impact would be minor as it's mostly non-native, commercial forestry, they'd be less affected by the weather and they could provide uplift via a couple of electric buses, charged by a small run-of-river hydro scheme. Unfortunately this area belongs to FLS and they won't even maintain the only footpath from Glenmore to Coire Cas.
Plus - gotta maximise use of the funicular 😉
Good idea to try to become less dependent on skiing although it might well be too little too late.
The effing funicular should have gone from lower down!
There is no use case that could significantly offset the enormous cost of keeping the Funicular going. Any income from MTB would be a drop in the ocean compared to the millions to be spent.
Unfortunately there is also no way of getting the millions of pounds that would be needed to shut down the Funicular in an ordered manner.
So they'll just keep in drip* feeding money into it for the foreseeable
Top of my lottery goals would be launching a private prosecution against the felons involved in the railway and subsequent mismanagement of CGM. An utter travesty
* Can you use the word " drip" when you're talking millions PA?
There is no use case that could significantly offset the enormous cost of keeping the Funicular going. Any income from MTB would be a drop in the ocean compared to the millions to be spent.
Unfortunately there is also no way of getting the millions of pounds that would be needed to shut down the Funicular in an ordered manner.
So they'll just keep in drip* feeding money into it for the foreseeable
Top of my lottery goals would be launching a private prosecution against the felons involved in the railway and subsequent mismanagement of CGM. An utter travesty
* Can you use the word " drip" when you're talking millions PA?
Financially, throwing more money at it makes no sense - there’s an unavoidable cost to remove it and make good the site at its ‘end of life’, which I seem to remember was a condition of the original funding award from the EU. In real terms, that cost probably increases year on year, while they continue to patch up a poorly designed and constructed facility. I’ve seen a few people suggest that it would have been cheaper overall to rip it out when the track originally failed, and replace it with a gondola or covered chairlift, a la Nevisrange.
The rationale behind the support for ongoing incompetent decision making at Cairngorm is mystifying - hands in the till?
With a warming climate, how long is skiing going to be viable in the Cairngorms? Is it time to find an alternative strategy?
This is the "alternative strategy". Long term predictions are that the Ptarmigan Bowl will, for a while, be the only area in any of the existing Scottish ski areas to hold any snow. Quite how long that will be viable remains to be seen