[Closed] "By 2019 no new Volvo cars will be sold without an electric motor"

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volvocars-geely-electric-idUSKBN19Q0BJ

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/07/05/volvo-becomes-first-major-car-manufacturer-go-electric/

Odd, I got the full article twice when I originally picked it up, now paywalled. Darn.

I tried out a Nissan Leaf a week or so ago (Car Club vehicle), normally I'd use one of their Fiestas or Priuses. I was very impressed, the performance of the Leaf was so much better than either the ICE or the Hybrid. I can see where Volvo are coming from.

Still sounds like a milk float, but drives like a normal car.

In full pedant mode regarding the title of the thread I'd say that almost every car on sale has numerous electric motors already,( I gave up counting at 10 on my Golf) so it could be argued that Volvo already have reached that point.

Electric Traction motors are a different thing.

Many people don't have easy access to overnight charging and in town centres are unlikely to get access soon, so range extender EV's are surely going to become more important.

Yup its the future. Always was but DieselGate has helped it along. IMO we'll see more and more Hybrids with full electric takeup following later, possibly quite a bit later.

Electric is definitely the future.

I've oft wondered what my daughter's first car will be - she's 3½ so it's a while yet - and just the other day it struck me that it is quite likely to be an EV. I'd never even considered the idea before. The way tech has moved in the last 10-15 years, another 10-15 and combustion engines will probably be reserved for specialist applications, and weird beardy folk with their classic cars.

<waves at future self>

So every Volvo model will be [b]available[/b] with Hybrid power. Not the same as [b]only[/b] available with Hybrid power. Marketing genius

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/07/05/volvo-becomes-first-major-car-manufacturer-go-electric/

Good, the sooner the combustion engine leave the world the better we will all be.

Been in heaps of hybrids recently and it's hard to tell the difference as a passenger, also seeing a lot more motels out here in Oz with charging points.

It will take some bold action and a serious look at electricity generation but worth it in the end

jimw got my pedant response in first 😆

Cheers, Rich

Volvo will become the first major car manufacturer to go all electric, with the Swedish company saying that every car in its range will have an electric power train available from 2019.

I wonder whether Tesla will be counted as a major car manufacturer by 2019?

IMO electric cars drive better than ICE. I had a Nissan Leaf for a week on a test drive and it was great. Only downside being range anxiety. I am not a petrol head so getting from A to B to is all that matters to me. The smoother and less stressful the bit in the middle is the better. My 7 speed Merc does this perfectly but at 35-40 mpg it is not the most cost effective car.

the low speed torque of electric motors negates one of the big advantages of diesels [b]until the battery runs down[/b]

I'd be very happy to have an electric vehicle.

Many people don't have easy access to overnight charging

That's changing though. I know multiple people in my village that have electric charging points on their driveway. Some of them don't even have electric cars, but got them installed because it was offered for free as some OLEV grant scheme.

e.g. http://www.electricnation.org.uk/2017/02/21/installation-of-free-smart-chargers-gets-underway-for-electric-vehicle-owners/

We also have public charging points in the local car park.

I've oft wondered what my daughter's first car will be

I bet she won't own a car.
It's a pointless venture when you think about it.
Cars spend most of their time sat, empty, taking up a car shaped space somewhere.

What'll happen is you NEVER own a car. You just 'summon' the car you want, at that time.
You'll click "family SUV" in an app, anda self driving family SUV will turn up, you'll drive it to camp in the new forest fully loaded, and then unload. The car will then drive away.
You'll then get fed up of the kids, click "2 seater sports car", and one'll turn up which you'll raz to the pub. It'll drive away...
You'll have a few drinks, feel flash, click "bently" and a posh car will drive you back hom (in fact, you'll have dozed off in the rear seat, missing the joy)...

THen, when it's time to go home, you'll call up the crappy family SUV again....

You'll have been using a car for all of 5 hours over a 7 day period, ant it will be cheaper and betterer for everyone...

DrP

A drive? That's nice.

How does that work in cities then or towns with no off street parking?

I'd sooner see less cars myself...

DrP I think you are living in dream land unless you live in London, people like personal freedom and to 'own' stuff, and need to get to work etc. If people wanted to rent cars it's perfectly possible to do that now, and I know a few people who don't own a car and rent only when necessary.

Self driving cars are miles off from being acceptable in towns and cities, simply because they can't cope with things like cyclists, dogs, children etc. In fact I'd go so far as to say we'll never see them, as the legislation will be such that a person will need to be present to over rule the computer if need be.

I want to live in DrPs world!

FWIW, I think it is possible, car clubs etc. in London are huge, congestion in urban areas is progressively getting worse. We need more space on the roads, less on street parking etc. the only way to do this in these areas is reducing car ownership (not necessarily even car journeys themselves). People change their behaviour when forced to, and the current situation is unsustainable.

I've oft wondered what my daughter's first car will be - she's 3½ so it's a while yet

Interesting assumption. It might be that that question will make as much sense in the future as asking what her first bus, train or airliner will be.

Edit. Point already made.

"Reduction in carbon footprint"

Yer, riiiiight.

squirrelking - Member
A drive? That's nice.

How does that work in cities then or towns with no off street parking?

I'd sooner see less cars myself...

Lamp posts with charging points, charging points added at the kerb. Numerous possibilities.

dragon - Member
Self driving cars are miles off from being acceptable in towns and cities, simply because they can't cope with things like cyclists, dogs, children etc. In fact I'd go so far as to say we'll never see them, as the legislation will be such that a person will need to be present to over rule the computer if need be.

It's a weirdly arrogant view to think humans are the only things which can possibly drive a car. Computers will do it (far) better than humans and it's not far off.

Already we have things like Tesla's emergency collision detection which is better than what a human can do.

Have a look at this, it brakes before the collision ahead occurs, and it knows whats going on by bouncing radar or laser under the car in front.

How does that work in cities then or towns with no off street parking?

Depends on your city I guess. Looks like my nearest city Newcastle currently has 551 public charging locations.
https://www.zap-map.com/location-search/?pc=Newcastle&ll=54.9783%252C-1.6178

And plans to increase that:
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-transport/travel-planning/electric-vehicle-charging-points

There might be numerous possibilities for charging points, but leccy won't be a future until those possibilities are implemented.

I live in a town centre, on 4th floor, no drive. Where do I charge my car?

When there's a charging point in every single lamp post, street sign, etc. and a charging point between every 2 bays in practically every single car park (not just 8 bays next to the disabled parking on the ground floor), then it might be a future.

For UK, where sub-urban semi detached with a 1-2 car driveway is more common, it might be a future there.

When there's a charging point in every single lamp post, street sign, etc. and a charging point between every 2 bays in practically every single car park (not just 8 bays next to the disabled parking on the ground floor), then it might be a future.

Or quick chargers in every current fuel station?

Or wireless charging imbedded in the roads you drive on?

Or replaceable battery packs available in fuel stations?

Technology moves on too quick in this area, energy transfer and battery capacity is getting faster and bigger respectively. The EV industry is now recommending that trickle charging be phased out due to it taking 14+ hours to charge a normal EV these days! Interesting times...

Oh and of all the main carparks in this city, only 1 afaik has some bays with charging capability (edit: it's 1 charging point for 3000 bays?).
The best bit... you have to go to the office to get a token to operate the charging point, which is open 8 til 8 on working days only! For a 24/7 carpark.
It is A future, not THE future, right now.

edit: the main out of town has whoa... 4 charging bays for cars, and 4 charging bays for electric mopeds. the future is nearly here.

"[i]I bet she won't own a car.[/i]"

I bet she will. Unless you're being utterly pedantic about me paying for it meaning I own it 🙂

[url= https://electrek.co/2017/07/04/electric-car-norway-tesla-model-x/ ]Electric cars reach record 42% of Norway’s total new car sales with boost from Tesla Model X[/url]

It's very possible that very few people will own cars, with big car parks filled with autonomous vehicles which you'll just summon via an ap

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08wwnwk/horizon-2017-dawn-of-the-driverless-car ]dawn-of-the-driverless-car[/url]

This is a good watch - it's not all good news but it should be a lot better than it is now.

As said, unless there is a charging point literally anywhere you can park a car then it's not practicable. The problem with that though, is that it would be expensive and that's before you try to figure out where you are going to get the power from (we're already in enough trouble trying to keep the lights on without adding to it at this stage). Electric isn't even necessarily the answer anyway, there are other solutions that are far more practical at this point in time (but don't really address car culture)

As said, the real solution is to get rid of peoples dependency on cars. Integrated public transport that is cheap and convenient would get rid of a lot of problems whilst car club schemes could fill in the gaps (self driving or otherwise). I'm the first to admit I'm dependant on my car and it's not something I'm particularly happy about but there's not a whole lot I can really do about it at this stage.

Yes, people like owning cars but in all honesty how many people who care about such things [i]actually[/i] own their car? I bet a sizeable proportion of folk on here have a lease or company car. This whole phenomenon is built on prestige and the debt-ingrained society we are living in which, at some point, will have to end.

I can certainly imagine a future (or even a present) where you have a charge point at home and another in your parking space at work.

That make an electric vehicle ideal for commutes and the average car journey (which is just 22 minutes!)

[i]Have a look at this, it brakes before the collision ahead occurs, and it knows whats going on by bouncing radar or laser under the car in front.[/i]

Good that. But then it sits in the fast lane waiting to get rear ended. 😉

For every petrol engine taken off the streets there are ten petrol-driven leaf blowers lurking in the shadows.

It's a weirdly arrogant view to think humans are the only things which can possibly drive a car. Computers will do it (far) better than humans and it's not far off.

Hardly when most of the big tech and car companies are saying they are struggling to get it to work in towns and cities, due to the erratic behaviour of pedestrians, cyclists etc.

That Tesla vid yeah is great, but it's on a segregated dual carriageway and that's about the easiest situation for an automated car (or human) to work. For driverless cars to work they will need to go through towns and cities, past schools, shopping centers, playing fields.

I can certainly imagine a future (or even a present) where you have a charge point at home and another in your parking space at work.

So can I. The problem is I don't have a driveway or even a place I can consistently leave my car.

It probably wouldn't surprise you either to learn that despite installing public EV chargers the company I work for has precisely zero on a site that can accommodate up to 1000 people at a time.

enfht - I don't think leaf blowers are a great concern in the grand scheme of things, they tend not to run particularly often.

dragon - you forgot baby robins.

What'll happen is you NEVER own a car. You just 'summon' the car you want, at that time.
You'll click "family SUV" in an app, anda self driving family SUV will turn up, you'll drive it to camp in the new forest fully loaded, and then unload. The car will then drive away.
You'll then get fed up of the kids, click "2 seater sports car", and one'll turn up which you'll raz to the pub. It'll drive away...
You'll have a few drinks, feel flash, click "bently" and a posh car will drive you back hom (in fact, you'll have dozed off in the rear seat, missing the joy)...

THen, when it's time to go home, you'll call up the crappy family SUV again....

I want to live in that world I just don't think it's coming any time soon.

Self drive cars are a bit like Fusion power it's been 'just about to happen' for ages but never actually arrives.

I'm fully converted to the EV car now.

Had a Nissan Leaf for over six months now, drives very well, won't be getting a petrol or diesel car again.

I realise it's not for everyone, but it would suit a lot of people .

There are plans to introduce street charging, won't happen soon, but will happen in the major cities.

Our car energy costs have plummeted, and it is much cheaper than diesel or petrol.

There is a government grant where you can have a 7kw charger installed on your drive , costs £99.

Fortunately we have invested in lowering our electricity costs by having solar panels, and now a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery.
The battery stores the excess solar energy without it being exported to the grid.
Still get the same feed in tariff whether the energy is exported to the grid or stored in a battery.

There is a video on You Tube about the on street charging, existing lamp posts and street lighting are going to be used. This will begin to make quite a difference to the availability for people to charge who don't have off street parking.

Believe it is on Richard Llewelyn Fully Charged channel.

dragon - Member
Hardly when most of the big tech and car companies are saying they are struggling to get it to work in towns and cities, due to the erratic behaviour of pedestrians, cyclists etc.

That Tesla vid yeah is great, but it's on a segregated dual carriageway and that's about the easiest situation for an automated car (or human) to work. For driverless cars to work they will need to go through towns and cities, past schools, shopping centers, playing fields.

Just a matter of time, dragon.

Google have clocked up over 2 million miles testing their autonomous cars in California and somewhere else I've forgotten and the number of cases where humans have had to take control has decreased fairly rapidly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38839071

The number of human interventions in journeys made by driverless cars from Google company Waymo in California more than halved in 2016.
There were only 124 "disengagement" incidents last year, where a driver had to take control of a test vehicle on public roads, down from 341 in 2015.
The cars drove nearly 636,000 miles last year, compared with just over 424,000 in 2015.

If I understand some of the latest tech.

We may be able to refill the electricity, into batteries, as a charged fluid in the next decade ( or so )

Volvo will become the first major car manufacturer to go all electric, with the Swedish company saying that every car in its range will have an electric power train available from 2019.

Volvo is a Chinese company and the batteries will be from the 7 day shop 😆

I'm awaiting delivery of my new car, due September, it's the Hybrid Golf moving away from diesel after many years with one. As I have electricity in the house I can even in charge it at home.

I have electricity in the house

Oh how the other half live.

I don't understand why people think the only charging solution is on street.
As has already been stated, we could have a situation where you can pop into a refuelling station for a quick battery change.

It's not like people fill up their diesel/petrol cars at home at the moment is it...

Oh how the other half live.

Well it's how we roll in the North.

we could have a situation where you can pop into a refuelling station for a quick battery change

Emphasis being on could. Nobody has yet found anything viable that could fulfil this idea. Unless you go with fuel cells.

Emphasis being on could. Nobody has yet found anything viable that could fulfil this idea. Unless you go with fuel cells.

Or use the electricity to make hydrogen out of water and then burn hydrogen in some kind of 'internal combustion engine' from which the emmisions would be water. So hydrogen is the energy storage medium. (That may be bollocks - I'm not a chemist.)

Hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong?

[img] [/img]

Oh yeah.

Hurry up you ICEosaurs, there's a meteor coming!

Here's mine:

[img] [/img]

(with bonus extra carbon fibre on-one too....)

Hydrogen is considered safer than petrol, it burns hotter but much faster and doesn't spread about the place.

It can be run in an internal combustion engine but fuel cells are better.

Who crashed into the front of your car?

It can be run in an internal combustion engine but fuel cells are better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

Ahhh, fuel cells *are* hydrogen! As you were, nothing to see here.

Hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not sure an airship full of petrol would have been a rip-roaring success.

people like personal freedom and to 'own' stuff

people need to change their behaviour. and if they won't they need to be compromised so that they have to change their behaviour.

How long before "ElectricGate" or "HybridGate" ?

outofbreath

Self drive cars are a bit like Fusion power it's been 'just about to happen' for ages but never actually arrives.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuhbqcMzOaw

Your point?

people need to change their behaviour. and if they won't they need to be compromised so that they have to change their behaviour.

Nice approach. If going down that avenue would be better to do it on more important things than cars though

'like' for Maxtorque

Its very clear which way the direction of travel is going. In a very short time we have moved away from owning cars to renting them through PCH - and the most enthusastic take up has been from the younger generation. They want new shiny stuff and they want it changed frequently. They want the latest tech and rarely do they care how it works. I can't think of a more perfect environment for EV's to flourish.

As for 'self driving' I'm sure it will be here quicker than we think or indeed want.

I have a hybrid and wouldn't go back to purely diesel or petrol.

Our second car in the future will probably be full electric.

Is that because it's more eco? No not at, they just drive better and are cheaper to own.

Personally I don't think electric is the answer, it's just shifting the limelight from nasty nasty combustion engines to amazing clean cars (so we keep buying them)

Charging simply cannot work on a national basis. The only way I can see it working is if you go to the petrol/battery station where they swap out your battery pack for another charged one. Can you imagine car companies all agreeing to a one size/shape battery !??!

So for now I'll keep driving my hybrid for the selfish advantages it gives me, eco is certainly not one of them IMO

People filming themselves using Teslas "autopilot" are exactly why these driver assist system are a terrible idea.

It is NOT a driverless car. Everyone seems to think it is. This has killed at least 2 people so far.

Even the company that made the systems in Tesla car said so
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-16/tesla-says-mobileye-tried-to-block-its-auto-vision-capability

BTW - i work on driver assist stuff - none of it's being tested properly, ONLY trust Google on this, they are the only ones doing it properly and the only company refusing to release partial solutions, FULL autonomy only

And you can put me down for one of these!
Slightly faster than my Leaf

Wake me up when my liability as a car user transfers to the manufacturer.
💡

We've had a hybrid golf for about a year now. I cant imagine us ever going back to a conventional petrol / diesel.

the only company refusing to release partial solutions, FULL autonomy only

There is an argument for that - but there is also an argument that people just aren't ready for full autonomy so you have to sneak up on it slowly, step-by-iterative-step so as not to scare them:

power steering
automatic transmission
cruise control
auto wipers
auto lights
auto handbrake
adaptive cruise control
steering by wire
built-in satnav
lane departure warning
built-in satnav with live traffic updates and re-routing
auto emergency braking
parking cameras
parking cameras with overlays
autonomous parking
driver assist cruise control

Wake me up when my liability as a car user transfers to the manufacturer.

That's exactly where I am on this. The day I can read or sleep on my way to work I'll be happy. If I've got to be awake & looking I might as well be operating the car. IMHO.

there is also an argument that people just aren't ready for full autonomy

You reckon? I think full autonomy is the only point where it becomes viable.

I used to be enthusiastic about cars, passionate even. Then I gave up competition and overnight driving became a chore. Saturation maybe. Anyhow, thirty years after last racing my local Renault dealer lent me a Zoe while the petrol machine was in for service and it made me smile.

As I pootled around in it I started calculating if it would do the trips I wanted to. The further I went the bigger the smile and the higher the range on the display (the previous user must have had a lead right foot). I took it home and got Madame to have a go. She liked it too, we ordered one.

The environmental damage of mining, manufacturing and ultimately disposing of lithium battery packs is huge and the explotation of the miners pretty deplorable.

But that's ok because in the UK we don't have to (in the short term at least) worry about these things. We can feel all warm and fuzzy that we're only destroying environments thousands of miles away and not our own.

Electric cars are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

[b]cars[/b] are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

cars are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

Fair...

cars are not a long term solution for this reason. They have a huge global environmental impact which is not sustainable imo.

Without a car how would I move my bike around?

No tag?

I iz disappoint.

Volvo have said they will continue production of existing models.
New models will be electric.
But no announcement of any new models.
Today there was no news.

Wow, the clearly city/urban-centric point of view of so many here, who seem to have the usual townie attitude that the countryside is just the place where they can go to play with their expensive toys, then retreat back to the all-encompassing luxuries or their comfy urban lifestyles.
How very bloody patronising and condescending!
Christ, it's often difficult to find a conventional filling station after a certain time of night, there's nothing between Bristol and Chippenham on the A420 after around 11pm, for example, which is roughly thirty miles, a great many people live and work in small villages well off the main routes, with zero access to public transport, in many villages there's only on-street parking well away from residents homes, so any kind of plug-in electric car is a non-starter; for example a former work colleague lives in a small cottage at the top of a narrow footpath, his car is parked on the main road through the village wherever he can find a space, which might be a hundred yards away! Many local villages, like Biddestone, don't even have street lights, let alone somewhere to plug in a car, because the houses are either well away from from the road, or there's nowhere to park a car nearby, so what the actual **** are all those millions of people supposed to do?
👿

Oooh! Get him.

To be fair, they don't make a substantial economic contribution so does it really matter?

The beauty of charge points is they're open regardless of the time of the day.

Blimey Zero, chill out.

Those millions will continue to support the market demand for petrol-driven vehicles which will presumably still be made due to the billions of people in similar situations.

(And for the record it's hardly a metropolis here either despite your weirdly presumptive accusations)

Threads like this in the past have had half a dozen negative nancies arguing against electric using ever more extreme scenarios as example of why it'll never work.

Now theres just CZ like a Japanese soldier lost in the forest still fighting a war long lost.

The beauty of charge points is they're open regardless of the time of the day.

I should dangle a cable from the 4th floor of my apartment (there's a power socket on the balcony), and more than double the amount of city centre charging capability here. Apparently charging costs are virtually free, so won't cost me much more than the price of a 25m extension cord.