[Closed] Buying Paracetamol

I buy 6 packs of ibuprofen and 6 packs of nurofen at once, by putting 3 spearators between them and paying for them separatly. Moronic restriction.

Ha! thats brilliant dbcooper! Shirley that doesn't work, or is it just that moronic a process?

Seems stupid. The pharmacist has the discretion to sell you more than the restricted amount.

Putting a separator in between your purchases and paying separately circumvents the till restrictions, but puts the checkout person in an awkward position as they are strictly speaking breaking the law by selling to the same person. Agree it's a moronic law though.

It does seem a bit ott, but paracetamol poisoning is so nasty, anything that makes you think a bit about what you are buying / using has got to be a good thing.

I used to go into the local chemist and pick up my box of 500 cocodamol, they'd only sell me 32 paracetemol though (I was doing a 1/1 split of cocodamol and paracetemol)

Well I guess it's because of idiots like me! Couple of months back I was taking max dose of paracetamol for backache, and developed a cold too. Asked chemist for some Lemsip and she asked if I was taking any paracetamol 😯

I swear I didn't know Lemsip was basically paracetamol until that moment, so I'm very glad she asked 😳

Seems stupid. The pharmacist has the discretion to sell you more than the restricted amount.

'tis true...

Moronic restriction.

Maybe not - I don't have the paper to hand, but all the evidence suggests that since the restriction came into force, there has been a reduction in paracetamol ODs/deaths.

Yes, it can be frustrating being limited on the number, but there is a background reason.

DrP

I know two people who've accidentally overdosed on paracetemol and ended up in hospital after not realising that it was in the likes of Lemsip and Nightnurse*. One is still suffering from the consequences 7 years later. On that grounds I'd say there's reasonable cause for a restriction.

*obviously they're daft for not noticing but that wouldn't have been much help when they were in A&E.

Paracetemol is a horrid horrid way to die though when you get too much of it. I have a former tenant who just got away with it when he (deliberately) overdosed, but got discovered when he was a funny colour and shaking. Lovely bloke, but he's hoping for a liver transplant sometime soon.

That said, I walked away ranting from a full trolley of shopping when refused 2 packs of paracetemol and two of ibuprofen one night having put my back out lifting my dad who had collapsed with mrsa and getting him to A&E. I needed a hug and a cup of tea more than the meds though. Just typing that has made me need another one.

If you get the quack to prescribe, it's 240 Paracetamol for the £8 fee. I.e. more per tab than generic... I understand that's the most they can do at a time.

I don't even mind the paracetamol restriction, but when I was told at the pharmacy that I couldn't buy paracetamol at the same time as picking up a prescription for dihydrocodeine as they both contained paracetamol I did get the hump a bit. (they don't BTW)

They exist for a reason not just to make it a bit inconvenient for you when you have the sniffles.

In the UK Paracetamol is the most common agent of intentional self harm. Between 2000-2008 there were 90-155 deaths from paracetamol poisoning every year. In addition, there are deaths resulting from paracetamol compounds. It is the most common cause of acute liver failure (ALF).

To reduce the incidence of paracetamol overdose, legislation was passed in the UK in 1998 to limit the number of tablets that could be bought in one purchase: 16 tablets at present (up to 32 tablets in pharmacies). Furthermore, paracetamol was supplied in blister packs making obtaining the actual tablets take longer.

Limiting pack size has reduced sizes of overdoses and numbers of deaths and liver transplantations in England and Wales, but not Scotland, although some authors have disputed the decline.

Paracetamol overdose may occur intentionally and accidentally - the latter due to the high number of combination products available over-the-counter. There are also frequent cases of accidental poisoning in children.

[url= http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/paracetamol-poisoning ]Source[/url]

I buy 6 packs of ibuprofen and 6 packs of nurofen at once, by putting 3 spearators between them and paying for them separatly. Moronic restriction.

You shouldnt be able to do that I believe. It should be obvious to the check out person what you are doing and they should refuse to sell the additional ones.

In a way it is silly as someone who really wants to do harm will just go to different stores any buy it but it does serve well to inform people that don't realise there is paracetamol in a lot of medication and prevent them from unintentional harm.

In a way it is silly as someone who really wants to do harm will just go to different stores any buy it

I suppose the hope is that they think better of it on the way between Boots and Superdrug.

I take it none of you watched Breaking Bad then ?

Sadly they can't change the law to only allow middle-class people who aren't going to open a P lab, buy more than two packets at a time.

know two people who've accidentally overdosed on paracetemol and ended up in hospital after not realising that it was in the likes of Lemsip and Nightnurse*.

Bloody hell, how much did they take?? (I'm reading overdose as something more than double/triple the recommended dose, which would be easy enough..)

Seems stupid. The pharmacist has the discretion to sell you more than the restricted amount.
'tis true...

I suppose the hope is that they think better of it on the way between Boots and Superdrug.

Ive never been in that situation to be able to understand, but apparently it does stop over doses.

As to OP. Now you look a bit silly, but more informed, why not fill your wifes boots, and see how she gets on....

So she thought I was either stupid or trying to kill myself then...

Or it wasn't the Pharmacist.

Bloody hell, how much did they take?? (I'm reading overdose as something more than double/triple the recommended dose, which would be easy enough..)

I don't know TBH. I lived with one at the time and she was one of those folk who load themselves up with every drug under the sun at the first sign of a sniffle. She genuinely had no idea that she was taking three or four medications with paracetemol in over the course of a day on top of taking tablets.

The other girl I was less close to but I understand that she did something similar - though I know that some of our friends think she might have been more aware of what she was doing than she claims.

I tried to get headache tablets when I was in the amazon.
The pharmacist said they couldn't get any as the parrots eat em all.

I swear I didn't know Lemsip was basically paracetamol until that moment, so I'm very glad she asked

As an aside, it's always worth checking what's in big-name drugs. Apart from avoiding contraindications, it will often save you a good deal of money. The supermarket own-brand Lemsip-a-likes usually contain the same active ingredients (and sometimes more) than the big brands making bold marketing claims. A pack of Nurofen, as a random example, will set you back North of two quid; but it's just Ibuprofen, the exact same drug in the same dosage only without a photo of a woman with a headache on the box will cost you 30p.

In a way it is silly as someone who really wants to do harm will just go to different stores any buy it

I suppose the hope is that they think better of it on the way between Boots and Superdrug.

This is it.

It's intention is to stop the spur of the moment attempts.
If someone is 'really committed to suicide' they will quietly plan it out (hence why it's difficult to stop in some cases). The restriction stops the so-called 'mood swing suicides' that people begin to regret minutes after the thought.
Hence, wandering from shop to shop suddenly becomes an eye opener.

However.... I TOO get annoyed I can't buy a pack of paracetamol AND a jar of calpol!!

DrP

Seems stupid. The pharmacist has the discretion to sell you more than the restricted amount.

Didn't know that and I would have used it the other day when refused trying to buy paracetamol and ibuprofen. Pharmacist wouldn't budge, even when I offered my Paramedic registration card and reasoning behind buying both. 20 yard trip to the Spar and sorted.

Agree with danger as pointed out above though. I've actually had clueless parents giggling at their 'silly' daughter who took 100 paracetamol + over 10 hours before I got there. Not a good prognosis !

First hugs for midlife 🙂

Next, hels breaking bad is meth amphetamine, for which they started with sudofed, as it contains a very similar amphetamine. The paracetamol in sudofed would have been one of the things they removed, before altering the purified amphetamine.

Isn't it paracetamol that it's possible to add the antidote for overdose caused problems directly to the tablet, without affecting its pain killing ability? That, and a small cost increase, would seem a good option. Hell if the cost was significant pharmacies could stock both types... 500 tablet jars of convenient costly but safe, and 16 tablet blister packs of cheap but 'dangerous'

Legislation for the hard of thinking. Modern Britain.

boblo - Member

If you get the quack to prescribe, it's 240 Paracetamol for the £8 fee.

Unless you live in civilisation

I think prescriptions are free in Scotland too 🙂

Frustrating, but a reasonably pragmatic balance of benefit and risk. ask a pharmacist if you need to buy more. Or pay cash and scan them through the self-service machines on separate transactions.

~200 deaths/year to [url= http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_375498.pdf ]2013[/url], but down by half from 1993-97. It may be inconvenient, but restriction does work.

Still an amazing drug, that would never be developed now. And Mrs TiRed is allergic to it - a dose titration confirmed it.

Legislation for the hard of thinking. Modern Britain.

No its for the depressed

One of hte biggest causes of Paracetemol overdose is dental pain. a clinical overdose is concidered above 75mg per kg. so if you weigh 75kg then 10 tablets is enough to be concidered a clinical overdose. Thats why you can only buy 2 packs. Its very easy to hurt yourself. Given that one pack is enough to last you two days of full doses, if after 4 days of full dose analgesia, you should probably be looking at the cause of the pain rather than just treating it and addressing this with your GP (but thats another story).

Legislation for the hard of thinking. Modern Britain.

It's legislation which saves the lives of some extremely vulnerable people.

And at worst it's mildly inconvenient for some others, occasionally.

You would need to be "hard of thinking" not to be able to see that.
Or to be too self centred to care.

Modern Britain 🙄

a jar of calpol!!

Try buying a bottle of 6+ Calpol from a pharmacy when you have a <6 child with you. Yet you can get it off the shelf in the supermarkets.

Legislation for the hard of thinking. Modern Britain.

Let's not protect the vulnerable. Old Britain.

Or pay cash and scan them through the self-service machines on separate transactions.

Good luck with that. Soon as you scan them it'll stop the transaction so they can check your age.

Bloody hell, how much did they take?? (I'm reading overdose as something more than double/triple the recommended dose, which would be easy enough..)

Iirc one reason paracetemol is available in france only in dissolvable sachets or fizzing (alka seltzer/nuun type) tablets is that it too was found to significantly reduce the incidence of deliberate poisining by overdose, because you have to drink so much water with it to take a big 'all in one' overdose.

I wonder if paracetemol would be licenced if it had never existed but was invented tomorrow. [\professional hat]

Try buying a bottle of 6+ Calpol from a pharmacy when you have a <6 child with you. Yet you can get it off the shelf in the supermarkets.

Try buying Calpol equivalent in a German pharmacy when your kid has just developed an ear infection on 1st day of a road trip holiday! They wanted age and weight plus almost 10 minutes explaining the excessively complicated dose instructions multiple times for something we'd pick off the supermarket shelf in UK. Was also foul tasting compared to UK brands.

Now go very well stocked with that sort of thing.

Exactly Julian Wilson that's another reason they have the procedures in place.

Northwind - Member
boblo - Member
If you get the quack to prescribe, it's 240 Paracetamol for the £8 fee.

Unless you live in civilisation

Does not understand...

A pack of Nurofen, as a random example, will set you back North of two quid; but it's just Ibuprofen, the exact same drug in the same dosage only without a photo of a woman with a headache on the box will cost you 30p.

My wife used to work in acute admissions at major hospital. Easy access to paracetamol didn't make for pleasant admissions. My flatmate at university, 1st year, took a major overdose - and he could 'because it was there' (i.e. big tub). Quite messy though he survived that (and the attempted flinging himself out a thankfully mostly shut window)

Paracetemol is a horrid horrid way to die though when you get too much of it

This, and I can speak from professional experience on this one, having been the intensive care registrar in a liver transplant centre. It is not nice at all.

I believe that there's a limit of two packets a time on Ibuprofen as well.

Here in Canada there are no restrictions that I know of. My flatmate picked up a bottle of 500 ibuprofen capsules yesterday.

Interesting article about Paracetamol (aka Acetaminophen) in USA http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/09/the-us-tylenol-problem-visualized/

Especially the (very) in depth one they link to.

Anyway, niggly thing I find here now is take Lemsip to a self scan checkout in the supermarket and sure enough have to get it approved. Understandable I guess, though there's nothing making it clear why to people who likely don't know what it contains.

It may have been before the 'Great Hack', but I can remember a thread in which some one was buying supplies for a expedition. While the checkout attendant was quite happy to scan though over 12 bottle of whiskey, more than 2 packets of paracetamol was a no no.

Ibuprofen isn't subject to the same restriction in pharmacies as it is in supermarkets. Most supermarkets won't sell you more than two packs of painkillers or other paracetamol based remedies, but they also won't sell more than two packs of 16 200 mg ibuprofen, despite the fact they aren't anywhere near as dangerous. I take up to four doses of paracetamol, codeine and ibuprofen a day,(although it takes a really bad day to take more than two doses)
and when I get my codeine prescription at the chemist I geta 96 pack of 400 mg ibuprofen. That's the equivalent of 12 packs of 16 200 mg tablets. The only questions they ask is whether I suffer from stomach problems. I can rarely find a chemist that will sell me more than 2 32 packs of paracetamol though.

As for cold remedies, it's far cheaper to buy generic paracetamol and the cheapest decongestant tabs you can find.... Exactly the same ingredients, just not in a fancy pack.

While the checkout attendant was quite happy to scan though over 12 bottle of whiskey, more than 2 packets of paracetamol was a no no.

Well. That's because one of those purchases would be illegal if it went ahead.

And the other one isn't.

It's really not too hard to understand.

Bloody hell, how much did they take?? (I'm reading overdose as something more than double/triple the recommended dose, which would be easy enough..)

People tend to imagine 'overdose' as a goodbye-world fist full of pills and a suicide not. "overdose" is more than the recommended dose. Paracetamol is a drug of popular choice for suicide attempts but a lot of the harm done by paracetamol is caused by taking a little too much a little too often.

The little and often overdoses happen because paracetomol is hidden in many medicines - you can take something for your runny nose, something for your sore throat and something for your headache and theres paraceomol in all of them. The other danger is taking paracetomol doesn't feel like anything - it has no drowsy or narcotic effect of something like codeine. Other pain killers feel like they're doing something, you know you've taken them, you know they're active and you know you are taking medicine. If you pop some paracetamol it doesn't feel like theres a drug actively at work, you just take them and the headache gets a bit better.

Unless you live in civilisation

Does not understand...

'Civilisation' is all points north of gretna green where prescriptions are free

Anyway, niggly thing I find here now is take Lemsip to a self scan checkout in the supermarket and sure enough have to get it approved. Understandable I guess, though there's nothing making it clear why to people who likely don't know what it contains.

Thats why you have the automatic limit through the checkout - non of the supermarket staff are pharmacists. Its not their job to understand and they're not qualified to advise how and when to take pharmaceuticals. If you buy anything similar from a pharmacist they'll ask "have you taken this before?" "are you taking any other medication?" and advise you accordingly. In their absence if you're smart you can take the beep and the flashing light as a clue something is important and read the label and find out for yourself. If you're only 'clever' you can do the multiple transaction tricks detailed above and do your bit for darwinism.

You would need to be "hard of thinking" not to be able to see that.
Or to be too self centred to care.

Not self centred - seriously, what is the point of Night Nurse (to be taken specifically at night before bed) if I can't buy something to take the next day?

Its a poorly pitched product for the marketplace. Putting paracetomol is something so specific is dumb in light of what shops can and can't sell and in light of the condition the medicine is being sold for. Thats not a fault of the legislation, just ill-considered product. If they made a paracetomol tablet so big you couldn't get it in your mouth you can't blame your mouth for that.

Well, you can, but perhaps you need to be aware that you will be taking additional paracetamol and therefore choose something which doesn't contain any

I guess it's something along these lines. [img] [/img]

Source http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3567205/ 2013

Not self centred - seriously, what is the point of Night Nurse (to be taken specifically at night before bed) if I can't buy something to take the next day?

You can.

You just need to buy it from a qualified pharmacist.

Not self centred - seriously, what is the point of Night Nurse (to be taken specifically at night before bed) if I can't buy something to take the next day?

Well as mentioned, numerous times on this thread, you can if you speak to the pharmacist and they feel it's safe to. If you don't then they can't, just because you're buying night nurse doesn't mean you're only going to use it at night with nothing else.

Having seen the data in that report I am happy to retract my "moronic" statement. If my minor inconvenience really does save lives then I am happy to have to go around three times to get a decent amount of drugs.

It is suprising that what seems like such a small thing has had such a big difference.

My assumption was that if you wanted to do yourself in then you would just go to the effort of doing what I do, or visiting a few different retailers.

But I can see that it might be a sudden mental process and if the large amounts are there then its easy to make the wrong decision, but if you have to consciously consider getting a large amount then you might get a reality check.

Neck wound in..

Popped into a pharmacie here in France yesterday for some paracetamol for a headache. Was sold tablets of 1,000mg dose! Not sure I will bring them home as we're used to them all being 500mg,wouldn't want to take two of these bad boys by mistake. Having said that they are the size of suppositories so swallowing two takes some fortitude. Actually can you take paracetamol anally?

A mate from the pub put himself in hospital the other day after "self administering" sustained high doses of Ibuprofen for his toothache (tightarse geordie will wait 4 months for NHS emegency dentist rather than pay for a fix) sufficient to cause a bleed into his stomach. V messy build up in pressure I gather..

Actually can you take paracetamol anally?

To quote an Aussie I once picked up who was looking like going into epileptic fit, she asked if I would be able to give her anything. I said we carry rectal diazepam, her response was:

"I didn't know you get rectal, then again I suppose you can shove anything up your arse!" 😳

You would have thought your bosses would have considered you've got to administer what you carry. Someone in procurement has an evil sense of humour.

Having said that they are the size of suppositories so swallowing two takes some fortitude. Actually can you take paracetamol anally?

Mais oui!* Are you sure they [b]aren't[/b] suppositories?

*When I was an SHO, one of the chronic pain docs went to a European conference, where some new drug was being heavily promoted. All his French colleagues were interested in was when the rectal preparation would be available, as apparently this is the preferred route of administration on the other side of the Channel.

Useful thread this one. I have to confess that I wouldn't have expected paracetamol to be this dangerous unless a bucket load had been swallowed.

as apparently this is the preferred route of administration on the other side of the Channel.

Quite literally the other side the channel.

You would have thought your bosses would have considered you've got to administer what you carry. Someone in procurement has an evil sense of humour.

Thankfully we have IV now too.

Now you've got me checking the paper work RIBT!

Ce medicament est utilise par voie orale.

Phew.

Neck wound in..

Can I chip in just to note that this was beautifully done? Chapeau.

🙂

Phew.

I can smell the disappointment from here.

Honestly - reading through this thread has shocked me as to the prevalence of casual pill popping .. Stay away from these substances at all costs ... Pain killers should be an absolute last resort not things to manage you day to day lives with ..

Pain killers should be an absolute last resort

Why? Are you under the impression that it's better to be in pain?

All this thread should tell you is to abide by the instructions on the packet and check whether other remedies you take have any painkillers in.

Stay away from these substances at all costs ... Pain killers should be an absolute last resort not things to manage you day to day lives with ..

Scaremongering much.

As with most things, I'll take my advice from trained professionals rather than strangers on the Internet.

But thanks anyway.

I reckon noltae just worded his response badly.

I can get bottles of 500 for $12.99 😯

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-extra-strength-pain-reliever-acetaminophen-caplets/ID=prod6153234-product ]http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-extra-strength-pain-reliever-acetaminophen-caplets/ID=prod6153234-product[/url]

Got a large supply of Codine, Tramadol and opium related drugs plus Paracetamol, all thanks to mountain biking. Smash yourself up and they chuck the stuff at you. "How much pain are you in? Here, take these!" 😀

Though Codine etc is not as dangerous as Paracetamol I guess, though addictive.

midlifecrashes - Member

Paracetemol is a horrid horrid way to die though when you get too much of it.

That is so, but I grew up in Canada where, to this day, you can buy plastic bottles of 1000 500mg tablets off the shelf in any pharmacy. And I have to say that paracetemol deaths constitute a phenomenon I never once heard of in my entire Canadian life.

I was shocked and annoyed when I moved here 12 years ago to find that I could only buy packets of 16 tablets. I have a large family, and between us, we go through a fair amount of paracetemol and ibuprofen on a monthly basis.

So what is it? Has Britain really experienced a plague of paracetemol OD deaths? I am not demeaning the horror of suicide; I am only suggesting that the whole approach to paracetemol sales might be a tiny bit of an overreaction...

@Saxon, this is grim

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/02/21/the_dark_side_of_acetaminophen.html

Accidental death by paracetemol almost as high as suicide with paracetemol. Still a small number in a big country, obviously, but apparently it's a thing.

And speaking of which, I know of someone who has tried several times to take his own life (we suspect he doesn't really want to, but is making a show of trying to) – he has no problems buying vast amounts of drugs and hides them all over (for example, in the grounds of local churches and things like that) so I really don't see how punitive restrictions on buying it really help – if you are intent on buying a shit-load, you can.

By the way, my wife survived her brush with potential overdoes of Night Nurse and Lemsip by not being stupid.

Phew.

Yes, it can be frustrating being limited on the number, but there is a background reason.

Nope, it's a cynical plot by supermarkets to make snotty people stagger past the comfort food twice.

I was shocked and annoyed when I moved here 12 years ago to find that I could only buy packets of 16 tablets. I have a large family, and between us, we go through a fair amount of paracetemol and ibuprofen on a monthly basis.

Why? That suggests to me that you're all casually taking it, which I guess goes hand in hand with it's free availability in Canada and a misunderstanding of the risks of taking it to excess.

so I really don't see how punitive restrictions on buying it really help – if you are intent on buying a shit-load, you can.

And yet, even though you don't understand why, the statistics prove that the restrictions do make a big difference.

That is so, but I grew up in Canada where, to this day, you can buy plastic bottles of 1000 500mg tablets off the shelf in any pharmacy. And I have to say that paracetemol deaths constitute a phenomenon I never once heard of in my entire Canadian life.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/world/2014/02/21/the_dark_side_of_acetaminophen.html

excitingly, fewer canadians than UK citizens die of paracetamol overdoses, despite the giant packs

No idea of overall suicide rates, though

(...off to google we go)

(Oh. also, far more UK folk die of overdoses of prescription drugs than paras)

Oooh, pretty similar

wikipedia - member

world suicide rate rankings
rank Country
38 United Kingdom (more info) (0.0118%) 2011
39 New Zealand[32] (0.0115%) 2010
40 Canada (more info) (0.0115%) 2009

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931590/

In this population-based study, we examined trends in hospitalization rates for acetaminophen overdose in a large Canadian health region. Between 1995 and 2004, the adjusted annual hospitalization rate for acetaminophen overdose was 15.5 per 100,000 population. This rate is approximately one-fifth of that reported in the UK despite legislation limiting sales of acetaminophen in that country[12,27,28]. Although the explanations for this discrepancy are beyond the scope of this study, differences in acetaminophen availability seem unlikely considering the relatively liberal sale of acetaminophen in Canada. Moreover, suicide rates are similar in the UK and Canada[29,30]. Presumably, this discrepancy reflects different methods of suicide in the two countries (eg. more frequent use of firearms, hanging, and suffocation in Canada versus poisoning in the UK)[29,30].

Hospitalization rates for accidental acetaminophen overdose appeared to rise during the latter years of our study following an initial decline between 1995 and 2002. Such 'therapeutic misadventures' [34,35] occurred in 13% of our study population. This finding is in keeping with data from the US ALF Study Group reporting that a striking 50% of ALF cases due to acetaminophen were accidental[2]. Based on this data, it has been estimated that approximately 500 ALF cases and 150 deaths attributable to unintentional overdoses occur annually in the US[36]. Since accidental ingestions have been linked with a greater risk of hepatotoxicity, [3,37-39] our observation of a recent increase is of public health importance. Currently over 100 products containing sometimes large amounts of acetaminophen are available over-the-counter, and many patients (and physicians) are unaware of their acetaminophen content[36].