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I was wondering about this when **** face invaded Ukraine, but put it out of my mind. Since then I've been surprised and heartened to see various crowdfundings for weapons for Ukraine. Think the last one was for a fleet of secondhand APCs ( apologies if my jargon is off, I'm a bit pissed)
1) is this legal? Will I be arrested and thrown in jail just like wot I would be if I bought something for Al Quida ( hear those GCHQ monitors prick up their ears)
2) Is it a good idea. Or are we just hastening the point when CFace uses a nuke? Should we just leave the Ukes to it on the basis that they're miles away and once CF subjugates them there's no way he'll move onto Lithuania, Estonia etc etc. Honest injun no siree...
If you want to give something, give medical supplies. Offensive weaponry kills civilians too you know.
Nuclear or conventional?
If you want to give something, give medical supplies. Offensive weaponry kills civilians too you know.
But Ukraine ain't going to win the war with medical supplies. Rather than spending money repeatedly buying medical supplies so they can patch themselves mostly up when CFace hits them I'd rather give them the wherewithal to make CFace stop hitting them.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
Will you agree then that in that statement primarily relating to gun use that the gun plays a part ?. What of the enabling effect ? 😕
And if we can accept that people kill people, why then should we have guns ? 😉
@dyna-ti random gun control arguments aside, do you believe a sovereign nation attacked by another has the right to defend itself?
AFAIK the Ukrainian government and military are not a proscribed organisation under the Terrorism Act 2000 , nor are they the subject of UK sanctions so funding them would not be illegal. (IANAL).
If you want to give something, give medical supplies.
Do this, or winter clothing, or maybe survival gear like camping & cooking gear?
Do this, or winter clothing, or maybe survival gear like camping & cooking gear?
But then the big nasty man with the guns and missiles will just take them off them.
No?
Absolutely.
Fair enough. I've donated medical kit via jkomo on here and towards EOD kit via friends of Ukraine EOD. The latter is also an option if you want to donate to non offensive ops - humanitarian mine clearance and bomb disposal.
But personally although I haven't yet, I would have no ethical concerns about crowd funding conventional military equipment to help Ukraine evict Russia from their country. Apart from the fact that Ukraine's cause is the nearest thing to a totally just one since the second world war IMO, their foe is a threat to the whole of Europe and possibly the world and Ukraine giving them a humiliating bloody nose now may prevent or at least delay that. YMMV.
With the backing of the UK, US and most European countries, do they really need crowdfunding to buy weapons? Leave it to governments to decide whether it's a good idea and to fund it!
Leave it to governments to decide whether it’s a good idea
Hard to put my finger on precisely why 😉 but I don't have a wholelodda faith in my government making the right decision on anything right now.
With the backing of the UK, US and most European countries, do they really need crowdfunding to buy weapons? Leave it to governments to decide whether it’s a good idea and to fund it!
You make a good point. It's probably not necessary. Hypothetically ethical (IMO) but probably not viable for individuals.
I'm not a fan of v.3.0 (or the others) of this government but I can't really disagree with their approach to Ukraine.
Agreed
But then the big nasty man with the guns and missiles will just take them off them.
You mean the one that's in rout/retreat at the moment?
You make a good point. It’s probably not necessary. Hypothetically ethical (IMO) but probably not viable for individuals.
I agree, from a lot of the vids i've seen the civillians main problems are that russia has knackered thier infrastructure, so no internet, or patchy internet, intermittent gas/electricity. SO basics like good clothing, water purification tabs, first aid kits, etc. are probably needed more.
There more we donate to cover the costs of medical, clothing, and food supplies, the more cash Ukraine has left to buy it's own weapons. So it may not matter either way.
In terms of military equipment the US has given USD19.3 billion worth with another USD400 million on the way, the UK GBP2.3 billion worth and the EU EUR3.1 billion worth so I don’t think the Ukrainians are going to be short of one or two APCs.
They’re certainly not paying for the military equipment themselves either.
As others have said it’s maybe more worthwhile donating towards something that will make a small difference for ordinary people.
I've been donating to
https://www.comebackalive.charity/
I think they have a better idea if what might be useful than I do.
Early on I contributed to their defence force fund. I agree that humanitarian assistance is necessary, but they had to win the war too. I take the view that they are fighting on behalf of all of us.
@dyna-ti random gun control arguments aside, do you believe a sovereign nation attacked by another has the right to defend itself?
Odd, I’ve yet to see a response to that question. Wondering why, enquiring minds want to know.
@dyna-ti random gun control arguments aside, do you believe a sovereign nation attacked by another has the right to defend itself?
Odd, I’ve yet to see a response to that question. Wondering why, enquiring minds want to know.
Enquiring minds?
dyna-ti
Full Member
@Blokeuptheroad.Absolutely.
In terms of military equipment the US has given USD19.3 billion worth with another USD400 million on the way, the UK GBP2.3 billion worth and the EU EUR3.1 billion worth so I don’t think the Ukrainians are going to be short of one or two APCs.
Yeah I was sorta of the opinion that my taxes have already part funded weapons for Ukrainian fighters (while my gas bill probably helped prop up Putin a bit)...
It's not that I don't support Ukrainian forces in their defence of their country, more that I haven't got a clue on their armament requirements. Also I'd be very suspicious of some random on the interweb purporting to know what weapons Ukraine needs and requesting funds towards that...
I'd be more in favour of giving to charities that are supporting those displaced by the war or medical supplies and blankets for there's at least a reduced risk that the cash I splash is doing more good than harm then...
Yea, leave it to the pro's. Don't get sucked in on an emotional basis. $bn are spent on this every minute - your £20 won't go very far!
Remember it was Liz Truss who advocated that any old Joe should head over to UKR on a mission (which is actually illegal). Look what happened to her.
Edit: Staying on topic.