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Has anyone done it? My main concern is that gas bottles (LPG I assume?) will turn out to be very expensive.
I don't know how far the house is from the mains, but I suspect it's too far to make connecting a realistic possibility. There's a log burner, but looks like that is just for heating the living room.
LPG is expensive and will bet more so. We're all going to need to consider ditching mains gas in the next decade or so, be an early adopter but dont go down the LPG route, maybe heat pump territory?
Gas is on the way out so not a huge concern. Is it possible to up the insulation levels? Costing that up would be more of a priority. Once it's insulated you can get some form of electric heating, eg air source heat pump, without the costs being crazy
Is it lpg heating ?
Could also be oil or electric.
If LPG. You'd be better burning 5ers in the log burner.
I've never had a house with mains gas since I moved out my folks but have had all the above at various stages. - ironically I live smack dab between and within spitting distance of the 2 main high pressure gas lines that come out of st Fergus.
What is it heated with. There are many houses with no mains gas....heating by oil, cooking on electricity. No big deal. Gas bottles for cooking is ok, but for heating I would imagine you'd need a big tank of compressed gas in your garden which I believe is expensive.
Or a heat pump, obviously 😁
Almost everyone who isn't in a town...
Bottled gas is horrifically expensive for heating, not too bad for cooking, parents use it for that with oil for heating.
I have electric for cooking and wood burner with back boiler for heat and hot water, which is great apart from the lack of a timer for early morning heat. You can run a central heating system off a log burner, works just the same, see if it already has this, if so job done, if not and you want it then there's the usual faff of fitting pipework and things but that's no different to if was gas powered
TBH if we are all supposed to be heading towards heat pumps one of those and some solar panels would probably be more future-proof than gas.
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(Edit) what he said^
No mains gas here. There was a LPG tank buried in the drive but we never used it. Heating was economy 7 storage heaters and electric cooker. We were lucky to get a grant for a heat pump (and we needed to dig the garden up anyway) so ditched the rubbish storage heaters, insulated the house, changed the leaky windows and had gas bottles for cooking.
That was 12 years ago. Heat Pump tech has moved on quite a bit as well. But it's been absolutely fine. Neighbours still use oil and that's gone up so much...
Is there scope for a central electric powered air con system, underfloor maybe?
Gas bottles or big oil tanks in the back garden seems like it would be a step backwards...think my nan ditched her oil powered heating donkeys ago and put gas CH in, but I think the house could already be hooked up the gas mains pretty easily, as in ther were gas pipes on the steet anyway so it was't a monumantal job to get the house hooked up with gas mains.
I had a small house which ran on LPG bottles, was on first name terms with the delivery driver pretty quickly!
I got mains gas put in, if you go this route be careful on quotations. Can't remember the name of the part of British Gas that did the new pipe connections, but unsurprisingly they were crap. Price changed every time I called them so waited for a low quote and booked it! They still turned up and tried to dig up the whole car park rather than the trench to the back road as agreed, lucky I was at home that day!
Also, can yo ushare cost with neighbours? I split with one neighbour as the others in the row declined. One tight arse still tried to bribe the guys to add his house in when they started digging! He was told to FO, guess they get it a lot.
Final thing is that, if relevent to your geography, the new connection may need to cross someone else's land. I had to find an obscure property company in London to get permission plus all the neighbours behind me, they were all pretty understanding.
Neighbours still use oil and that’s gone up so much…
It's not really- it's been pretty much flat in the 12 years I've been buying it with a dip down to its lowest price ever last 2 years. - filled my tank at 20 odd pence a litre in 2020.
But I wouldn't fit a new oil install today.
We are electric only with Lot 20 storage heaters which are brilliant. I think the key is how well insulated is the property if it isn't then it'll be costly whatever way you heat it.
Our house has no mains gas either. It has a ground source heat pump with underfloor heating and solar roof panels for heating the hot water for showers etc as well as a back up electric boiler . It's also very well insulated. All done before we bought the property.
On LPG your only likely alternative long term is electric heat. While mains gas may become hydrogen, that’s unlikely it be a viable replacement for bottled gas (size, flow rate, calorific value - ask a gas type, I’m a power engineer). Bio-oils or gases might become practical you never know, but I think you’re guaranteeing a heat pump converter in your future.
Whether that influences you is your call.
No main has in our village, it's arguably more expensive, but it's not like it's double the cost
We're on a wood/coal fired stove for heating and hot water here (during the summer we use a timed immersion for hot water). Took some getting used to but is second nature now, although we're trying to think ahead to reduce the coal side of things.
Still trying to work out how a stove which is basically a steel box with another steel box welded inside and which beyond the door and vent has no moving parts can cost two to three times as much as a modern gas boiler though.
Running cost wise it works out pretty much the same as gas and electricity
Oil is typically between 30 and 50ppl and for a 4bed detached house we typically use around 1200-1500l a year. So for heating and hot water for a year we’re between £40 and £60 a month. Oil hit 70ppl recently but only due to the fuel crisis and driver shortage and it’s now down to 58ppl and dropping. In 8 years of living here we’ve never paid more than 48ppl, but have paid as little as 18ppl.
Oil boilers are bloody expensive though. £5k+
I'm fine with non gas heating but I've yet to come across an electric hob that meeds my needs. Halogen, induction, plain old resistance, all shite.
Oil boilers are bloody expensive though. £5k+
Even the oil boiler for my.old man's place in France which is a 6 bed BnB with an separate annex was coming in at €3800
Mines a grant vortex eco external combi and was £2200 (10 years ago admittedly but Google shows it to be £2025 now) 1500l slimline tall bunded tank was £1400.
We are on bottled gas used for a hob only. Yes lpg is expensive but if only cooking it last for ages. We have just filled up two gas bottles after being here for three years. £160. We did about 6 month on a full gas oven as well and bottles where not quite full when starting.
If you are using for heating it's a different matter but cooking is no problem
Still trying to work out how a stove which is basically a steel box with another steel box welded inside and which beyond the door and vent has no moving parts can cost two to three times as much as a modern gas boiler though.
Probably more metal in the stove and much, much lower volumes.
We use a 19kg lpg bottle a year for cooking (hob) - around £50. Heating we’re on £500-£700 a year for oil plus about £250 on logs for the wood burners…
New Grant oil boiler has made things a bit more efficient but we have no other option for either mains gas or PV.
We use a 19kg lpg bottle a year for cooking (hob) – around £50. Heating we’re on £500-£700 a year for oil plus about £250 on logs for the wood burners…
New Grant oil boiler has made things a bit more efficient but we have no other option for either mains gas or PV.
So you're spending about a grand a year on heating?
Thanks all. We don't know an awful lot about the house yet in terms of insulation etc. I'm pretty sure the log burner isn't connected to anything. An air source heat pump had occurred to me, maybe with some solar water heating. We'd probably not be in a position to do either for a while though if we bought it.
Does the RHI stuff help you upfront to install stuff, or just trickle in afterwards?
If LPG. You’d be better burning 5ers in the log burner.
It's not quite that bad, assuming you've a big LPG tank you get refilled, rather than bottles.
We don’t know an awful lot about the house yet in terms of insulation etc.
EPC should give you a clue. You should be able to look it up on the register, if it's not part of the information in the property listing.
Does the RHI stuff help you upfront to install stuff, or just trickle in afterwards?
Just afterwards, but there's some noise that there might be some upfront help coming. Payback time is still fairly significant though - especially when you're likely to have to upgrade a bunch of other things.
Does the RHI stuff help you upfront to install stuff, or just trickle in afterwards?
The scheme has finished, unfortunately.
Running cost wise it works out pretty much the same as gas and electricity
How? Mine is pretty much free. I have a van and a saw, if you have space to store wood to dry it it shouldn't cost you anything and the servicing is loads cheaper, I've got a set of sheep's brushes and, erm, that's about it. An hour or so twice a year, no financial cost.
assuming you’ve a big LPG tank
That's what I had.
It was that bad.
How? Mine is pretty much free. I have a van and a saw, if you have space to store wood to dry it it shouldn’t cost you anything and the servicing is loads cheaper, I’ve got a set of sheep’s brushes and, erm, that’s about it. An hour or so twice a year, no financial cost.
Time isn't free. Some people value it more highly than others.
Domestic RHI hasn’t finished. It is due to finish in March though and most installers will be flat out before then trying to get everything done by the deadline. There are supply issues around ASHP too at the moment.
Time isn’t free
Nor is the wood…
Where we live only the major town is on gas, all the villages and settlements etc around for about 20 miles are oil or gas.
The majority are gas when you look around.
Air source heat pump looks like our only option for the future as we can’t have ground source and the house faces the wrong direction for solar
Have a look at the boiler juice website to get rough costs of oil over time
When I’ve looked at replacement oil boilers they do not appear much more expensive than a gas boiler. Obviously you need to replace the oil tank every 15yrs or so too and realistically that’s going to cost £1,500 to £2,000 dependant on size
No mains gas within 40 miles of me. Currently have an oil boiler, used to run on bulk LPG. Heat pumps an option now too.
Domestic RHI hasn’t finished. It is due to finish in March though and most installers will be flat out before then trying to get everything done by the deadline. There are supply issues around ASHP too at the moment.
I know, but you're not going to register, install and commission a new system by March, for the reasons you state. Bearing in mind that the OP hasn't bought the house yet.
and the house faces the wrong direction for solar
Doesn't face the ideal direction, but surely you can get some solar?
I'm on oil and a Woodburner.
House needs more insulation so as I redo the ceilings I'll get them filled with insulation and then I'll do the loft. I'll insulate between the roof stringers and board it out
surely you can get some solar?
Long rectangular house running north to south with single apex roof, kind of in a natural dip so doesn’t get sunlight in the morning or evening
Something no one has pointed out, if you don't have mains gas then you pay more for electricity.
Why, because you can't take advantage of the Dual-Fuel Discount.
We're on oil for heating/cooking and yesterday paid 60ppl for 1000l.
We aren't on mains gas - neither are any of the village's in our area....
What's the energy rating of the house your looking at buying? Would be my first question.....
Oil is ok, but the gov are trying to outlaw it, hence the heat pump drive, which is ok if you have a very well insulated house with really good windows. Storage heaters are also a good option, but take a while to get used too. We have a biomass boiler (which heats the entire village), which although sustainable, is horrendously expensive as the owners are tracking oil for their pricing (we don't own it).
Oil is ok, but the gov are trying to outlaw it
Erm.... since when?
We’re on oil for heating/cooking and yesterday paid 60ppl for 1000l
Wow.... then you were done! Boilerjuice (who represent the maximum I'll pay) are looking for 52ppl for 500L so 1000L would be less.
If you'd run out then that would be a different matter.
We're not on mains gas (or water...), we have oil heating in the house and 57kg LPG bottles for the annex. We're just getting the Rayburn replaced with a modern, external, boiler, that's costing £5k.
LPG bottles are about £50 each, and last about six weeks, that's heating only for about three hours a day, four days a week. Not done a full year yet on oil, but budgeting for about £1500pa.
Insulation wise, that'd be great, but the house is old and stone and there's only so much we can do, and it's doubtful whether the cost of adding insulation would actually be recouped in anything like a reasonable timeframe.
We have a log-burner, but to be honest that's basically decorative given we have central heating, or for weekend afternoons when we're in the house and the heating isn't on.
We do have a 4kw solar array, and the Feed in Tariff from that pretty much offsets what we pay for mains electricity. It's hooked up to immersion heater in the water tank too so gives us hot water in the summer, and when the new boiler goes in it'll work properly with that too, so that should help with oil costs a bit.
The main learning point is that I wear more jumpers and thicker socks than I used to, and find other peoples' houses really warm...
This is all really interesting stuff; here in Ireland most places outside the biggest towns and cities aren't connected to mains gas, and it's 50/50 on mains sewer in some places.
Most new builds I've seen are already using air source heat pumps plus some solar; and there's a big push to get older houses retrofitted with it - add ASHP really helps with the energy efficiency rating apparently, and there are various regs about it. Obviously from the other thread it sounds expensive and imperfect, but hey ho.
I’ve yet to come across an electric hob that meeds my needs. Halogen, induction, plain old resistance, all shite.
Me too. Electric oven is obviously fine, but hobs I just can't deal with any of them - modern ones have utter ballsack interfaces, but more than anything it's the lack of responsiveness compared to gas. Some houses I've looked at have mains gas hookup purely for the stove and everything else is oil; but interesting to hear LPG could be an altewrnative.
57kg LPG bottles are about £50 each
Propane is 14 kWh / kg - so that's 16p per kWh - or 4 times the cost of mains gas and not much cheaper than electricity.
I’ve yet to come across an electric hob that meeds my needs. Halogen, induction, plain old resistance, all shite.
I have to say, being a previous gas hob evangelist, we now have an induction one and think it's great.
Propane is 14 kWh / kg – so that’s 16p per kWh – or 4 times the cost of mains gas and not much cheaper than electricity.
I wasn't aware of the numbers, but I can believe all that. The bigger, fixed, LPG tanks do work out cheaper than the 57kg bottles though (ignoring installation costs, obvs)
Propane is 14 kWh / kg – so that’s 16p per kWh – or 4 times the cost of mains gas and not much cheaper than electricity.
I think this now is the change. Energy costs can only go one way. It does not matter what energy source you have - they all costs metric shed loads, particularly off mains gas.
Anyone (OP) buying a house now would be well advised to consider how well insulated and how to increase the insulation, install solar panels (thermal and electric) and more.
another +1 for modern induction hobs - we've a Neff one that the previous owners had just put in before we bought, and was dreading it coming from a gas hob. It's actually very good and way more controllable than you would imagine it would be. Only downer was that the aluminium stove top coffee pots now don't work unless you use one of those metal plate converter things (which worry me irrationally).
We're on 100% woodburners for heat and immersion for water - but are just beginning to do sums on an air source heat pump installation to go in next summer.
The bigger, fixed, LPG tanks do work out cheaper than the 57kg bottles though (ignoring installation costs, obvs)
not much - and speaking to the landlord the upkeep and maintenance responsibilities are passed to you + many houses don't even have suitable locations to site a bulk LPG tank.
suppliers wont take contract on your tank unless its fit for purpose you cant shop round like you do with oil.
Has anyone done it?
No, but in your shoes it would depend on the building and the land.
What's certain is that energy of any kind is going up in price.
I'd be looking at how easy it would be to massively reduce consumption by making the building itself more efficient, and then looking at PV, a heat pump (preferably ground source) and an out-building battery room.
I have to say, being a previous gas hob evangelist, we now have an induction one and think it’s great.
+1
Wow…. then you were done! Boilerjuice (who represent the maximum I’ll pay) are looking for 52ppl for 500L so 1000L would be less.
Not where I live, only 2 providers deliver - and that was the cheapest quote, the other quote was 67.2ppl.
I've just checked Boilerjuice for our postcode, and it's 66.4ppl for delivery on 30th Nov or 71.7ppl on 23rd Nov.
So I'll let you take it back, I wasn't "done", and Boilerjuice is never cheap IME where we are.
another +1 for modern induction hobs
And another
i like my induction hob - but cheap ones are shit ended up with an AEG hob as it was the only one we could find that had individual buttons and power setttings for each ring - most had a push to select ring then one power setting for all three.... total mare to cook with - and our previous induction was shit. It took a demo at the kitchen room to convince me not to fit dual propane tanks and a switch over for gas hob.
boiler juice is the last place ill look for oil it has in 14 years of using oil NEVER been cheaper than the local suppliers direct.
their graph is good for watching trends but they appear to be adding 3-4 pence/l cut onto the local companies prices.
but standard prices round here are about 60 pence right now for my area.
We fitted solar last year and have an immersion dump into oil heaters for the moment - when/if the grant boiler becomes unrepairable and/or the gov outlaws by taxation or otherwise oil - ill be putting a tank system in for hot water.
another +1 for modern induction hobs
I was very skeptical when we moved into our new place and it had one fitted. But I'm a total convert. Properly controllable in the same way as gas, instantaneous increase/reduction of heat, multiple plates to cook from for smaller and larger pans, a timer function and wipe clean in seconds.
Wouldn't change it now
I bought an AEG induction hob and installed it without consulting my better half precisely because she is so conservative she wouldn't agree to it.
Even she admits its better than gas. Really good for teaching little kids cooking too, since there are no naked flames.
We have no mains gas nor sewerage. House was heated with a multifuel stove with a back boiler but it was annoying - no heat when away for a weekend so home to stone cold house and hard to fine tune. We replaced it with a biomass boiler 5 or so years ago and haven't looked back. It's great and controllable from an app on the phone. We also have solar thermal and pv.
Theres a good energy cost comparison here :
https://nottenergy.com/resources/energy-cost-comparison/
We have a multifuel stove with back boiler that does heat and water duties.
It heats a water tank thermal store that then sends the water around radiators and gives mains pressure hot water.
It has immersion input so we can set the system to heat the house on electric when we are not using the fire more cheaply than our storage heaters and we can set it to warm the house remotely when we are away.
It can also accept solar and gas/oil boiler input but we don't use these.
If the house has a stove with back boiler this cost us less than £2.5k extra but it is a small house so only have six smallish radiators.
Yes, last year we moved into a house with no Mains Gas and only old storage heaters.
We had a cold and expensive winter and then got Mains Gas and CH installed in March.
We had gas in the street so connect was £800 and CH install (new boiler, new mixer shower, new pipes and radiators) was £8000.
Prices as at March 2021, in Scotland. Also got interest free loan from Home Energy Scotland to do this work on the condition we also got Cavity wall insulation.
So to help answer your question, can you afford to live as is?
Can you afford to improve insulation fit better / or cheaper to run / more eco alternatives?
I looked at both air source / ground source heat pumps but the costs didn't add up at the time.
i like my induction hob – but cheap ones are shit ended up with an AEG hob as it was the only one we could find that had individual buttons and power setttings for each ring – most had a push to select ring then one power setting for all three…. total mare to cook with
That sums up my experience of induction hobs so far - the controls/interface were utterly pathetic, seemingly designed by someone who doesn't actually cook. I expected there would be decent ones around with the individual ring controls, good to know.
I'd not be put off buying a house without mains gas, but equally I'd not go for any new install of anything gas, LPG or oil. We've currently got GCH and a gas hob. Hoping to replace a crappy/useless conservatory and flat-roofed extension at the back of the house in the next 5-8yrs, and at the time we'll get rid of gas. Not sure what route we'll take instead but we've got the time to wait and see what advancements are made in GSHP/ASHP and solar between now and then.