[Closed] Buying a bit of (farm)land from neighbour

Been through very similar with our neighbour.

The problem is when you go round they know you want it, so they can charge you pretty much what they want.

Ours wanted £45k for 1/2 an acre, when an acre is approx £12k around here.

He justified the cost because in fairness it would add more than that to the value of our house.

Consider Planning change of use. You may struggle to get a change from pasture even to smallholding (still commercial), let alone domestic garden.

I was thinking about the planning thing. What if it stays as pasture, but it's pasture that I sometimes sit in in a deckchair?

You wouldn't get any of the local landowners round here to sell land that adjoins neighbouring properties - they are all sitting on it waiting for the chance to whack more houses on it. Even if they don't think that's likely for their generation they are assuming it will be for their children/grandchildren.

Supposing that wasn't the case - and I was selling to someone I liked - I'd still be expecting market value for it, would probably want to add a bunch of conditions about what you (and more importantly any future owner) could do with the land, and would want you to cover all the legal fees, put new fencing round it etc... it could become a very expensive chicken coup and polytunnel.

Next door to me sold their garden to two neighbouring properties, each part about 10mx10m, and about £4K each plus legal costs, seemed reasonable.
Might have been cheaper as planning had been refused twice on it

Been trying to do this for years without success. Culminated in landowner saying he wanted ‘millions’ for grotty 1/2 acre of sloping land in a conservation area. Good luck is all I can say!

You wouldn’t get any of the local landowners round here to sell land that adjoins neighbouring properties – they are all sitting on it waiting for the chance to whack more houses on it.

Given it's location, I'd be gobsmacked if this land ever got permission for building on.

I’d still be expecting market value for it, would probably want to add a bunch of conditions about what you (and more importantly any future owner) could do with the land, and would want you to cover all the legal fees, put new fencing round it etc…

Sounds fair enough, but the key bit is what's market value?

Look at the price of similar (same use) land nearby.

My dad did it and ended up falling foul of smallholding/farmland difference. Managed to get change of use though. That's out in the sticks mind you.

Moving to Hazy G - nice, a place gravid with potential.

This might make the land purchase expensive, though, but I couldn't really hazard a guess on its market value.

Market value is basically what anyone is willing to pay.

Following my father's death we sold some land that was about 6 miles away from the rest of the farm as it was too much work for just my brother to deal with. It's customary in the Lakes to split such sales into "lots" that you think will get the best price for the seller. The land sat between two villages and had two access points to the nearby road. One lot was the 1/4 acre that provided one of these access points. It was purchased by the owner of the house next to it to ensure it couldn't be used for access if the land went for development. If the rest of the land had gone at the same rate neither my brother nor I would have ever needed to work again!

Also as @FunkyDunc says, if the extra land is going to add to your property's value then the farmer will want some of that even if it's just potential extra value.

look at what it's currently used for and see what the going rate is for such land in that area. Is it arable or more likely grazing land? check a local land agent ( https://www.brownrural.com/properties/sales/ is probably the closest for Disley) to see what the going price is for that type of land. see if it's a price you;d be prepared to pay. Think about how you would present this to the potential vendor. Be prepared to be disappointed

I'd be unworried about planning unless someone is going to report you or you plan to sell in less than 6 -10 years

I've come across the same garden/ field issue in Lakes, landowner claiming it's garden or field depending on what suits them best. Planners at the park don't care, or too scared to do anything.

As for value, I'd suggest getting an estate agent to advise what it would do to to your property value and then try and keep the price below that. As above expect some covenants.

Is the land for sale.

If not Where's the driver for them to sell the land.

If I had land that I wasnt actively looking to but might be willing to sell but wasn't selling.....I wouldn't be offering it up at market value. It would be at a cost to benifit me . After all chopping an odd sized piece out of a field is an ongoing hassle.

Moving to Hazy G

Disley (although I did put the postcode in wrong in the OP, it's 2AN)

It's currently used, when it's used, for grazing sheep.

My advice would be to wait. Im selling some to my neighbour, and talking about buying some from another. Neither transaction would have a hope in hell of going forward if we'd tried it day 1. As it is now we have helped both out in various ways, and likewise they've helped us so we're all playing nice.

As above unfortunately market value is irrelevant in these situations - it is purely about what you are willing to pay for it...

I have nothing constructive to add, but this

chicken coup

Made me chuckle

I'm in a very similar position. I guess it depends on how much you want to spend and if you mind getting spanked and how much you want it now over some day in the future. My plan is to put in a not too interested letter of interest along the lines of if you think about selling or tidying up your boundaries remember us as I might be interested in a bit of your wood. He owns about 800 acres of the stuff and it is not for anything in particular - as in its not used for shooting anymore and there is no planned extraction of trees for firewood or timber. It's just there. I have been reliably informed that the current landowner would play very hard ball if I 'wanted' it now. Unless you know the landowner is in dire straits and needs some cash now the ball is very much in their court.

although I did put the postcode in wrong

I did wonder how the hell you would have farmland access from that road. Nice place you're getting. We'll be able to call in for a brew when we're out for a ride

My advice would be to wait.

Oh yeah, absolutely, deffo need to build the relationship first. When they were showing us round, the previous owners did say that they'd had a conversation with the neighbour about doing similar, and he said he was sure that they could "come to some arrangement", so he's obviously vaguely amenable to it. He's not a farmer, BTW, but it was all the family farm back in the day. I assume he now rents out the fields.

We’ll be able to call in for a brew when we’re out for a ride

We'll see what Boris has to say about that this evening.

Although, if you happened to be riding past, and we happened to be out the front, and happened to have accidentally made two spare cups of tea, it would be a shame to see them go to waste 😉

Land: They're not making it anymore.
(great quote from my dad when I was buying our current place and debating whether to pay a couple of £k more for a third paddock - this was 20 years ago)

And, the impossible question, what’s a reasonable price for that much of that land in that area

Ans: Whatever the landowner wants for it (hint: shitloads as you can only buy from him)

The area we’d probably want would be about 15m*30m.

Odd shaped bits of field are a pain for farm machinery - you'd stand more of a chance if the bit you wanted was in a corner of the field. If you want a bit that 'sticks out' into the field the landowner probably isn't going to be particularly interested.

Given it’s location, I’d be gobsmacked if this land ever got permission for building on.

. I used to think that about the land round here. If you know the right people, pull the right string and are persistent I think over the course of ~ 25 years land can move from "no way anyone would get permission there" to "that's not consistent with the local plan" to "we would consider zoning it for housing in the next local plan" to "its been zoned, but doesn't necessarily mean a planning application will be accepted". As I understand the local rumour mill, one doesn't decide to lobby the council direct, one agrees some sort of deal with a developer which is contingent on planning. Indeed, I am told that the closest field to me couldn't be sold off by the farmer because he's already done a deal with a property developer giving them first dibs!

Sounds fair enough, but the key bit is what’s market value?

You missed a ket part at the start - "if I liked the person" - which I think is benpinnick's point - far more likely to do a deal if you are perceived as the nice chap who's always out on his bike, than if its - bloody hell have barely moved in and he's asking to buy a bit of the field! Your position may be assisted by not appearing too rich either! The price i'd sell to my neighbour on the left, young couple drive a old golf, and the price to the neighbour on the right - with a couple of fairly new Audi's on the drive might be different! So long as he thinks you ride a bike because you are skint you might be ok!

There are guide prices for farm land around - I think it was £6-9K per acre ~15 years ago in lowland Scotland; price for a 30x15m plot (that's a smallish housing plot) with no planning, services etc is probably about 20-60K depending on how likely it is to get permission and where in the country it is, a plot with outline planning and services is more likely 40-100K for that size - and potentially more if it was very desirable. At its crudest its worth to you, whatever it adds to your property value, and that seems a good starting point. But if emotionally its worth more to you then that's its value. In any case it will be more than the £1 or 2K that the little bit of land is worth for grazing sheep.

My Mum and Sister live next door to each other in the middle of a field. They're on good terms with John the farmer and he was looking to raise some cash so asked them if they were interested in buying a bit of field in front of the properties.

The main sticking point was that we wanted to pay farm land rate where as he wanted to charge property rate (or whatever they're called) as we would change it in to an extension to the garden and the difference was about double. Didn't come to pass as what he wanted the cash for fell through.

My parents had several offers to buy some of their land. Neighbours always wanted to pay very low price for as much land as possible. Plus they were often not fully truthful with what they wanted the land for.

So my advice would be. Be as open and honest of what your plans are once you get the land, then offer them a reasonable price (it will differ to what they want to sell it for) but don't offer a crazy low price, be reasonable and get near to what you think wouldn't be insulting to them, you need to be able to get in a friendly negotiation position with them.

Silly low offers will just annoy the land owner and they will be more inclined to put price up or not sell it at all.

Just remember its their land, they don't have to sell it to you and if they they do sell it is devaluing their land, so they need to be financially compensated for selling it. Just because you are a neighbour they don't owe you a favour so don't expect some cheap mates rates deal.

Odd shaped bits of field are a pain for farm machinery – you’d stand more of a chance if the bit you wanted was in a corner of the field.

It would actually square-off an odd corner of a field. If you stick these co-ords into Google maps:

53.341034785998296, -2.027936644252196

...that's the bit we'd be interested in (we're buying the place with the solar panels). We'd like
to run a fence line down from the current fence line at end of next door's garden, to the stream

Ahh, OK..... so about 320sqm (if I've read it right)?
I would have thought he might be fairly amenable to that ..... £5-10k?
(and you'll need to fence it off properly and deal with the legals)

Ahh, OK….. so about 320sqm (if I’ve read it right)?

Something like, yeah.

I would have thought he might be fairly amenable to that ….. £5-10k?
(and you’ll need to fence it off properly and deal with the legals)

That's interesting, cos that's about the ballpark I reckoned too.

I’d be unworried about planning unless someone is going to report you

That's exactly what my old man thought. 6 months that lasted I think. Middle of nowhere off an unclassified road, someone reported (repeatedly) the dark green shipping container you could hardly see and the caravan he was using for shelter. Also reported the farmer next door to SEPA for building a path for his cows. Never under estimate folks pettiness. Could be someone that missed out on the sale or a rando that likes to cause bother (not that I take issue with planning regs).

That’s exactly what my old man thought. 6 months that lasted I think. Middle of nowhere off an unclassified road, someone reported (repeatedly) the dark green shipping container you could hardly see and the caravan he was using for shelter.

Tbh they walk amongst us.....lad posted on here about reporting folks the other week.

How ever in this instance....what you dad done is gateway to planning if it goes unchallenged so youll find that instances like that would almost always be challenged......

Never under estimate folks pettiness.

Very much this.

Howdee neighbour!

I did wonder how the hell you would have farmland access from that road.

Still can't think of any land on Park Road, only Coppice Lane. Are you moving into one of the farm houses that are being converted on the LadyBrook Valley Trail/Bollinghurnt Brook?

Walk the dog down that area almost daily.

Edit - just seen the co-ords. Lovely area and one of my running routes.

The land behind me is for sale 233 acres of agricultural land. Yours for £2,500,00

Works out about £10.7k per acre.

(there is however a hefty condition that any change of use increasing its value and you have to pay c40% of the uplift to the seller)

One other thing.... Just be aware that land needs looking after. If its not grazed it quickly looks crap, so if its pretty now, then you might be best off leaving as is, and getting friends with the landowner for a couple of years, before deciding what you want to do. My land consumes huge amounts of time relatively speaking as I have to maintain it. I need some sheep or something. But to do that I would need to fix the dry stone walls, or make a new fence, or... It all costs time and money! Annoyingly under 5 Ha we can't build a barn (easily) so I cant store the animals/equipment/whatever to maintain it without going through planning for ages and paying out loads of money - small holders face an annoying catch 22 where they expect you to manage up to 12 acres of land from your shed. Change of use to extend the curtilage isn't easy, so whatever you do you'd be winging it, and as above, people can be oh-so petty.

Within spitting distance of a fine timber merchant with a name I never tire of saying. 👍

Edit: actually not, the coordinates suggest you're near the route of many a fine fell race route including the no longer raced Vanessa Chappell.

I can't imagine you'd have planning issues up there given how remote it is.

Could you ask if you could rent the land in the short term? You could show what you're using it for, they get some cash, and if all works out then you could find out about buying it?

Yeah, renting is a possibility.