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I have in my garage a Ti Kinesis GrandFondo Disc that I broke last year and I had to suck it up and go and buy a new Enigma Etape. It was a £2k frame I was pretty gutted at the time so just stuffed it in the back of the garage. What shall I do with it, any thoughts?
Baring making a pen holder with the BB shell area I dont have a clue. Any thoughts?
Where is the crack?
Get it repaired and sell it?
Could be repairable or you could make a seat out of it.
Chop the front triangle off and sit on the saddle.
What size and where is it cracked?
I bought a rim brake gf cracked on the head tube/ top tube unseen as a bit of a punt on ebay. Spent the same again with Enigma getting it repaired. 2000 miles later and happy rider of a bargain.
You'd sell a disc version for much more than I paid for the rim version.
Use it as a dedicated turbo bike?
Put on a sticker and sell it.
If you can’t get the crack re-welded, how about an attractive set of wind-chimes? Cutting the tubes might be a challenge, though…
Chop the front triangle off and sit on the saddle.
I've seen a couple of chairs made like this and tbh they're pretty uncomfortable, probably as you're sitting on the saddle differently. My suggestion would be instead of a saddle, for the seat to be round, like a stool.
I did look at getting it repaired. Enigma said they were too busy at the time, I might try again. Its cracked almost all the way round the downtube a couple inches away from the headstock weld. Its gone on the oval cable port, very common by all accounts on Kinesis and Ribble Ti with oval ports in high stress areas.
Enigma said they would replace the entire downtube and run all the cables and pipe outside like on the Etape. I am guessing the effort involved will cost a lot of dosh.
Enigma said they would replace the entire downtube and run all the cables and pipe outside like on the Etape. I am guessing the effort involved will cost a lot of dosh
My repair with Enigma involved a new toptube. I got them to put new internal routing too. £250 Inc the internal routing. The new top tube was round so I guess the longer oval downtube would up the price. I'd sell as is (assuming you don't need it) with evidence of estimate of cost of repair rather than selling it mended. I'd be surprised if you didn't get £250/300 for it as is if sold in the spring (and if the world has not gone to shit before then).
Cut it into bits and turn it into a piece of art? Maybe a 3d ‘bike for life’ or ‘live love laugh’ poster?
How did you break it? Might be useful to other owners.
Cut and shut Brompton?
Wheelsonfire - obviously didn't just break - frame for life 😉
Very interesting ... I have contacted Enigma today. I would love someone to make a usable bike from it
Its a V2 model I think Dec 2015, I will get some pictures up in a sec
Oh I broke it on a small pothole, honestly nothing that big
how do I share a photo!! I will figure this out, bare with me
I bought it new in Dec 2015 and the warranty ran out after three years. In almost 30 years of almost daily riding I have never broke a frame. I thought Ti frames were for life, not so I know now, cheap ones are just that, cheap.
Kinesis said get lost, but offered a small discount off a replacement.... Like I was every going to do that, so I bought my 2nd Etape from the lovely people at Enigma.
I love my Enigma 🙂
broken titanium frames sell on ebay fairly often
Ironic...
Kinesis failures where you describe are pretty common sadly.
Sell it on Ebay for three grand...
That's a bloke with an axe to grind... He had Enigma repair it once and then they told him to get lost when it broke again IIRC.
Are the kinesis frames heat treated to stress relieve the frames? The cracks seem to all be similar suggesting a design / manufacturing problem.
Are the kinesis frames heat treated to stress relieve the frames? The cracks seem to all be similar suggesting a design / manufacturing problem.
No / I doubt it, it's only 6000 series Al frames that are heat treated generally. You'd know if your 6000 series frame wasn't heat treated, it'd bend when you sit on it.
Some steel frames are post-weld heat treated but it's not done to most. It's not a process for Ti frames that I'm aware of but it could in theory make the welded area more durable. This gets past my experience into metallurgy, IANAE etc, but I think one of the issues may be the difference between how easily pre-HT 6000 series can be aligned vs how difficult it is to align a Ti frame (has to be held during welding instead). With Al the (minor) challenge is preventing misalignment while relatively soft frames are racked up in the oven. For Ti you might struggle to get proper alignment after stress relief but I'm not sure.
Generally it seems the problems come from how Ti makes a reliable frame when round tubes are welded correctly, so perhaps HT isn't needed. But when tubes get heavily shaped and you start adding in internal cable routing there's a higher chance of local stresses causing weld failures. Fashion doesn't suit the material as much as some might like.
I've just got no idea why anyone buys a ti frame. Utter pap.
Good Ti is fine and lasts well. Bad Ti…….
There's plenty of people who haven't broken one, people always shout loudest when they're complaining
Thankfully, I've never seen a broken steel, aluminium or carbon frame.
Doesn't mean they don't break.
Quick Google will dismiss your myth.
My own anecdote is that I've seen few CF breakages, plenty of others.
I have a 2001 Litespeed Ti frame (Kitsuma) that hasn’t cracked. I had a steel road frame (lugless ) that broke at the seat tube/bb junction whilst I was riding it. I had three Trek CF full suspesnion frames fail in quick succession all at the pivot point on the seat tube (the second and third were warranty replacements). So on a purely personal basis I would suggest that Ti is the best frame material or possibly Aluminium. In truth, it’s really down to design and the skill of the person putting it together.
I’ve had 14 Titanium bikes from Indy Fab, through several Litespeeds, a few On One, , Singular and Kinesis. MTB, Gravel and Road. I’ve never broken any of them. I still own 2. Perhaps I’m neither gnarly enough nor heavy enough to have truly challenged one.
I've had 3 ti frames....
One of them (tripster atr v1) cracked in a similar spot to the OP... I think several of the v1 frames had similar issues....
Current v2 going strong....
DrP
Going back to the subject of
Busted Ti Road Frame – what can I make with it?
maybe a few pounds on ebay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284756181180?hash=item424cca80bc:g:R~0AAOSwzaRiUZ9d
I’ve had 14 Titanium bikes from Indy Fab
This has achieved some kind of hero status...how many owned all at once, any pics? They've gone quite quiet recently but I guess they're still producing. Those pics of the Fat Chance Ti Yo Eddy the other day have got me pondering the market value of a spare kidney, vaguely related in a way.
I’ve had 14 Titanium bikes from Indy Fab, through several Litespeeds, a few On One, , Singular and Kinesis. MTB, Gravel and Road. I’ve never broken any of them
On the other hand 100% of the Ti frames I've owned* have cracked.
*I've had one.
0% of the Ti frames I've owned have cracked. Smashed my body up so bad crashing one that I got a free ride in a swirly, the frame just had a tiny scratch on it...only sold it because the wheels became too small, wish I hadn't. Good Ti is good, good 'cheap' Ti is a misnomer.
For the record I've bought five To frames - still have three, 15, 13 and 5 years old.
Have had two Ti frames, a Rock Lobster and one of those custom made-to-order jobbies which i got off ebay. Setavento, maybe?
Anyway, the Rock Lobster was bombproof, but the other one cracked all the welds on the rear triangle when i hit a tiny pothole at low speed.
Theres Ti and Ti, apparently.
I have had an Omega Ti, Kinesis GF Ti, two Enigma Excels, Moots Routt Ti and a Singular 29er Ti, none have cracked and all have been ridden many many miles. Conversely have had two steel frames crack so go figure (and am 90kgs). From research on t’interweb i would say that its all down to the quality of the welding, any oxygen contamination will cause a fail and its an expensive and slow process. Big difference between a cheap frame and something like a Moots (IIRC they do heat treat their frames). Lastly, Ti does fatigue in a similar way to Aluminium and will eventually crack. Drilled downtubes where there is a stress riser seem a favourite point.
My opinion is Ti is a great material, very very long lasting, lighter then steel (which also cracks) and harder wearing and more resilient than carbon which turns tatty so quickly. It also resists dents extremely well, something often overlooked. But thats the great thing about the bike industry, plenty of choice for all.
So got a reply from Enigma (who supplied my replacement to this bike frame).
"Looking at the images a repair although possible would be rather costly. In order to execute a safe rideable repair we would need to cut out the existing downtube and weld in a new replacement.
We would also need to slot the tube and weld in cable guides. For a job of this nature you are looking at about £400.00 (inc VAT), including the tube, cable guides and a re-brush of the tube to match existing finish."
I guess now to see if I can re-home it
£400 all in? If I liked the frame, I'd go for that.