[Closed] Business trip wwstwd

In the current climate would this be ok?

Could be a bit chilly, but yes, fine. Personally I'd book into a Premier Inn, clean it down on the way in and take my own grub 🙂

Sounds more sensible than flying. Much easier to socially isolate. I'd be tempted to do the camping bit in southern Scotland then whizz through England. It'll be all over by march anyway. Not really, but things might change, for better or worse, at least your plan is flexible.

I think I will get planning. I should be able to ride it in 4 days. 5 days work then 4 days back. It’s the first real goal of the year! I can’t wait.

Oh, actually ride it? It will involve resupply at shops in a few other areas, which is a bit iffy, as I don't think restrictions will be lifted by then.

eeerr, multi day ride. no. That's not really how it came across to me either in the opening post! I think confining yourself to little, single occupancy boxes (car, hotel room) is a better look than swanning around the country on a bike for multiple days. Not saying what you are proposing is riskier, just seems harder to justify.

Sorry, I thought “ride down” would be apparent. Ok, I take the advice onboard. I could carry all my needed stuff (food)but the justification is main thing. Is it morally right? But then again is it right that my employers ask me to go. Perhaps In my mind I had jûstified it on this basis.

How does your employer justify their request/instruction?

You can travel for work and stay in hotels, I guess you are staying in a Hotel in Cardiff not camping in a park😆.
Going shopping is fine too, so is stopping for fuel at a garage. Crack on I say. Just don’t break rule 1, while you are at it.

You can travel for [essential] work and stay in hotels,[if you cannot do it from home] I guess you are staying in a Hotel in Cardiff not camping in a park😆.
Going shopping is fine too, so is stopping for fuel at a garage. Crack on I say. Just don’t break rule 1, while you are at it.

Just to clarify

You might also want a Key Worker letter from your employer as most hotels (well the ones my team and I stay at) require one on check in.

I think the acid test is will a knackered police person go oh Ok then you planet saving thing, you're making the most of the fact you've got to go to work away and bike packing isn't a high risk mode of transport (from a covid perspective) or is the answer going to be don't try to get smart with me sonny Jim, here's a £ 200 fine and time to book a taxi home / onward journey. I'm guessing the latter.

Also it's no the safest form of transport per mile vs severity of potential injury, you do not want to be adding to NHS burdens at the moment if some numb wit in a car hits you.

For me it's a definite breaking of rule number to cycle there and back.

I'm interested in the kind of job that allows 8 days of cycle travel to do five days of work?! I mean, I'm guessing you aren't looking to book that to a normal salaried job as "COVID secure travel time" 🙂

I worked in a couple of hospitals in Cardiff area recently and requested the Doctors involved send me an email requesting my attendance, subsequently had to supply it to the Holiday Inn where I stayed to cover their arse and mine.

EDIT: Great idea OP for an adventure in these starved times, but probably pushing it a bit.

Also it’s no the safest form of transport per mile vs severity of potential injury, you do not want to be adding to NHS burdens at the moment if some numb wit in a car hits you.

You say it yourself, the danger comes from motorised vehicles. It might not be as black and white as that but the morale argument favours riding a bike if you ask me. It's not the bike that presents the risk of serious injury.

If the alternatives are train or plane as the OP suggests. Or both, and potentially taxis, etc, I know where I'd feel safer. It's only a mad idea from the mindset that it's not a viable form of travel. As long as a safe route is chosen I can't see how it's more dangerous than public transport.

With regards to 8 days cycling time, time on site would be Monday to Friday with a weekend on each end plus one days travel each end only requires one extra day Each end at the good will of my employer.

“It’s only a mad idea from the mindset that it’s not a viable form of travel. As long as a safe route is chosen I can’t see how it’s more dangerous than public transport.”
This is my take. For me my bike is the daily choice of transport. Anywhere I need to go it gets me there.

Go for it! Sounds ace.

Having been all over with work and staying in hotels.

The Aberdeen Altens have asked for a key worker letter, never been asked in premier inns, I'm assuming that's because it's taken care of at booking. My booking in one premier Inn has been moved to alternative inns once the guidance changed.

You could ride it, I'd drive it.

I think the question is whether the trip can be justified. What is so important that you have to go to Cardiff?
If there really is no alternative and you have to go then bike packing there actually sounds sensible, a solo activity involving very little contact with anyone seems quite rational, much better than trains or planes.
If the journey can be avoided, don't do it. If you really must go then ride it.

Pwersonally I would not even be considering riding it. Not in the spirit of the rules by a long way and I doubt within the letter of the law.

Its not risk free - you are going to have to get supplies from somewhere and you will have contacts over a wider area than if you flew or drove

i would also be questioning why this meeting is actually needed

Just from a practical perspective, will you be cutting it fine doing North Scotland to Cardiff in four days? Isn’t that about 125 - 150 miles a day for four straight days?

Any snow or less than clement weather might mean you arrive late on site, or arrive late home and need to take unplanned leave?

My boss wouldn’t look too favourably on a late arrival or leave request in these circumstances, but yours may be different.

Just drive. In an ideal world from norther Scotland I would split the drive over 2 days. One evening-one day.
I think cycling will be more contact in more areas.

premier Inn have a good cleaning services IME and are managing well. Can't speak for other hotel chains.

Just from a practical perspective, will you be cutting it fine doing North Scotland to Cardiff in four days? Isn’t that about 125 – 150 miles a day for four straight days?

I was wondering about this too

Not in the spirit of the rules

And I agree with this

I think what you are suggesting is akin to when my lad asks if he can have something while we are at the shops, I say to him he can have one thing, so he picks up a multi pack of crisps then argues that he is technically within the rules.

I don’t think you should be riding it, and if it were me I’d be questioning why my boss thinks it is essential. If it really is essential then driving is by far the most cold secure option. Sorry - it does sound like fun...

I wouldn't be going at all.

Turning it into a cycling jolly is just manipulating the rules to do just what you want to do anyway - which is probably one of the reasons why we're in so much shit now (not the OP specifically but the masses doing just what they want and then working out how it 'doesn't really break the rules').

Yeah I know it's low risk, incrementally not really adding anything and maybe even 'within the rules' but if the OP were to declare 'I'm going on an 8 day cycling holiday' in his local A&E, what would the reaction be?

Really good topic this. Brings up some fascinating viewpoints. Primarily the idea that cycling isn't a valid means of transport and should somehow be inferior to others..

Also it’s no the safest form of transport per mile vs severity of potential injury, you do not want to be adding to NHS burdens at the moment if some numb wit in a car hits you.

This for example... Little Freddy shouldn't be allowed to cycle to school because one of the yummy mummies in a Range Rover might drive over him. And that would upset her a lot.

Turning it into a cycling jolly is just manipulating the rules to do just what you want to do anyway – which is probably one of the reasons why we’re in so much shit now (not the OP specifically but the masses doing just what they want and then working out how it ‘doesn’t really break the rules’)

Ah sweet, you've been listening to those nice men in charge haven't you... The posh ones, from Eton. The ones who have run the NHS into the ground, reduced public spending for vital services, used every crisis opportunity to line the pockets of their friends, break the law, **** up every critical decision that they've been faced with.
But yes, you're right, it's the people's fault.

Cycling is a perfectly valid form of transport. In normal times. Trying to justify cycling hundreds of miles for fun, in the middle of a pandemic that’s still killing close to 10,000 people a week, isn’t.

Good luck explaining it to the PCSO keen to get a COVidiot feature on the local news site.

Trying to justify cycling hundreds of miles for fun...

The OP was quite clear, it's for work.

It's very easy to minimise contact with people while riding a bike, much easier than it is than when using public transport. You could travel all the way there without any contact if you were serious about it.

Whether he enjoys it or not is aside the point.

It’s a no from me

I know under lockdown one in some areas they had a lot of issues with wild camping. And were doing night time patrols in some places to check. It’s been less of an issue so far in lock down 2/3 but as spring starts and it warms up I imaging there will be a dim view of it.

Drive down (hire a car if needed) and stay in a hotel.

Really good topic this. Brings up some fascinating viewpoints. Primarily the idea that cycling isn’t a valid means of transport and should somehow be inferior to others..

I don't think people are saying that.
What they are saying is that in the middle if a pandemic, when we are meant to be staying local where possible, is cycling the most appropriate means of transport.

I normal times I'd say fill yer boots, now not so.

The police round here are ticketing cars from out of area parking at places like the Quantocks.
I imagine they'd take a dim view of someone on a bike 400 mike's from home.

Drive down (hire a car if needed) and stay in a hotel.
And how many people are you going to potentially have contact with doing that compared to cycling and camping wild on your own?

What does your boss think about your plans?
Because employers now have a duty of care for employees whilst on business travel.

Why is the journey necessary and where are you washing? They’re my only questions.

I don't see a problem at all TBH.

While we've not worked anywhere for a year except WFH our middle son has probably covered 50k miles and about 100 hotel nights (Electrical Engineer supporting/installing production lines, mainly packaging).

Just get a letter from your employer and ensure they're happy with your travel method - how much mileage money will you get? 🙂

I don't think anyone saying cycling is an inferior mode of transport, just not appropriate at the moment. In the same way catching a train or flying aren't the most appropriate options at the moment either.

I don't think it's appropriate. You'd better have a good reason for going too, what exactly are you doing?

Did your son cycle 50k miles? I’m guessing not

And how many people are you going to potentially have contact with doing that compared to cycling and camping wild on your own?

about the same i'd estimate unless the plan is to do the full stretch self supported without stopping in shops.

could you do it? undoubtedly. should you? well you weren't sure i presume, that's why you're asking here. rule 1.

Tickles me that you thought maybe the people of this parish might not come down on the idea like a ton of bricks 🙂

I say, go for it. It’s not doing any harm.

I keep trying to reply but my iPad is not loving life today. Anyone else struggling with iPads on here?

Just to be clear, the interesting bit of the debate is:
IF I need to travel there, and that is agreed to be necessary, is it more/less acceptable to drive, cycle, train, fly.

Primarily the idea that cycling isn’t a valid means of transport

While your getting upset about the semantics. Are you really trying to say that riding down half the country is a valid means of transport for business matters even out with covid times that would struggle to get past more than a cursory glance from anyone in qhse or welfare.

What you enjoy in your time off has no bearing on the minimum standards of safety your employer is expected to provide while you are conducting their business should the worst happen while your sleeping in a ditch it's on their head.

And the debates about which is least risky and requires the least interaction with others.

Book hire car online Contactless collection. Pay at pump fuel drive to destination go to hotel - big chains running contactless check ins......

Vs ....resupplying at various shops on the way getting soaked to the skin on day 1 having. Cold day out and getting the sniffles and then ending up isolating when you arrive and missing the business your absolutely required to be there to do......

If it's essential your company if it has any sense will have prescribed travel plans and methods

Every point received is valid and taken in. I suppose it’s my take on what’s reasonable that needs adjusting. Pre Covid I would have done it without a question or doubt. Having The doubt has raised the question which has bought on a good debate. The likely hood is that the visit will be cancelled but work always plan for the positive outcome the adjust accordingly.

Positive outcome meaning relaxed travel restrictions not catching covid.

I'm sure I posted here a few minutes ago?

I’m sure I posted here a few minutes ago?

You probably did. I have been struggling to get on and post all morning. It’s very clunky today

@thegeneralist no need to be quite so rude and patronising just because someone doesn't share your rather narrow view...

Sounds very sensible OP 👍

Boblo.

no need to be quite so rude and patronising just because someone doesn’t share your rather narrow view…

Sorry. I wasn't aware I had been. Certainly hadn't intended to be. I was just trying to separate the two different parts of the debate. Ie should he be going,followed by how.

Actually, just realised you may have been referring to my first post in which case you're probably right ( I can't recall what I wrote, but I'm having a shit day at work so it probably was out of order in some way)

Onwards...

<Edit>
Just read my first post. **** me it really is patronising.
Good point, well made boblo
</Edit>

The OP was quite clear, it’s for work.

Getting to Cardiff is, doing so by bicycle is clearly for enjoyment.

@thegeneralist I bet many agree that Govt has ****ed it up bug time and made a bunch of cash for their pals...but does than mean the proles are faultless? Binary positions like this are rarely helpful.

Getting to Cardiff is, doing so by bicycle is clearly for enjoyment.

Is it wrong to enjoy a mode of transport? I would enjoy riding over driving and definitely more enjoyable than flying and train (in the current climate.

This probably doesn't apply to the OP but there must be people out there who can't drive and can't afford a train or plane.
If they *must* go and a bike is the only option then they can't? Since when did having money become the decider as to whether you can go on a journey, rather than just giving you options as to how you do it?
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I think they only question here should be if the journey is actually necessary. The OP should avoid going if at all possible but if there really is no option then self-supported on a bike strikes me as far less risky than sharing a train or aeroplane with lots of other people.

From a practiciality perspective, would it be feasible to get supplies delivered (for use that evening and the following day's ride) to the likes of a Premier Inn, ahead of you arriving there later that day?

Just thinking about how you could minimise contact with others during the trip each way and not carrying a lot of extra weight on the bike.

If they *must* go and a bike is the only option then they can’t?

Flip that. If an employer wants someone to cycle across the country while we have measures in place to stop transmission and spread of the virus, they'd better have a damn good reason why it's "essential"... (an increasingly meaningless term, granted).

This probably doesn’t apply to the OP but there must be people out there who can’t drive and can’t afford a train or plane.

Then the company with essential business should probably reconsider it's viability as a company.

Are we all pretending you can't claim travel on expenses or have the company pre-book?

I keep trying to reply but my iPad is not loving life today. Anyone else struggling with iPads on here?

My iPad Pro hates STW. Replying to threads takes ages because each letter takes several seconds to type.

Are we all pretending you can’t claim travel on expenses or have the company pre-book?

I don’t think so. I could get a train,plane or hire car on expenses but if the opportunity arouse to ride it would it be wrong to do so?

I don't think it would be wrong in the sense of being illegal ,im sure no one has thought to put a limit on the distance you can commute by bike yet .

But if you acknowledge we all have a responsibility at the moment to limit interactions with other people it would be wrong to choose to ride when you could hire a car on expenses ... probably.

I really don’t see the problem. How many people would you encounter if you flew or took public transport? If only personal car travel is allowed, then it would be different but the bike seems a lower risk approach than all the others.

Lots of people enjoy driving (I do given the right road) but that doesn’t mean it’s not allowed as a form of transport.

All our work travel requires a specific H&S travel plan to be prepared and reviewed before an essential travel letter is given. There is no way a 4 day commute by bike would be approved in current times as a safe means of getting to and from the work site.

Is it wrong to enjoy a mode of transport?

Of course not, but this discussion is about the current legal context.

But if you acknowledge we all have a responsibility at the moment to limit interactions with other people it would be wrong to choose to ride when you could hire a car on expenses … probably.

To my knowledge (and I might have missed it) the OP hasn't acknowlged driving as an option. If the question comes down to limiting social interactions, and you don't drive, I personally would find that far easier to do on a bike, than by travelling the length of the UK by public transport. Yet nobody would bat an eye if it was about flying.

The division is really between those who see a bike as a toy and those that don't.

There are pertinent questions about the length of the journey and the amount of exposure this entails. But there are also real advantages over this opposed to sitting in multiple confined spaces with numerous strangers for a period several hours. It's two opposite extremes, with both extreme advantages and disadvantages. In terms of social contact, it could be considered the next best thing to driving.

You could also argue the threat of climate change is bigger than any pandemic, in which it becomes by far the most responsible position to take.

Car>Bike>Public Transport in the current circumstances, IMO. If OP can't drive, or get access to a car, then riding it is the next best thing, ideally carrying all his kit to minimise contact with others.

I don’t think so. I could get a train,plane or hire car on expenses but if the opportunity arouse to ride it would it be wrong to do so?

My point was primarily aimed at those claiming some sort of poverty get out for not taking public transport due to an inability to drive.

FWIW I don't think many businesses would sign off on someone riding the entire length of the UK and kipping wherever, in March no less.

If you can drive you should. Using a work trip as an excuse to go camping is not in any way within the spirit of the rules, as pointed out hotels are more than in top of this and you presumably have an obligation to minimise company expenses which several extra nights in hotels would not do.

I’ve had the possibility of travel from Edinburgh(ish) to Cardiff lurking for many months now - there’s no doubt that it will only happen if it is genuinely essential, so far I have been able to avoid that but there will be a point in the next 6 months or so where I will have to be there; I have no doubts that it meets the company’s, mine and the government’s definition of essential.

I’m inclined to drive if I have to go. However another option is to take the sleeper - then the longest part of the journey is in my own “box”. I’d then need to get out from London to Cardiff - car hire may be safer than train for that.

I’ll not be flying as the one person I know who has flown the route said it was full and mask compliance was poor. I think however our concern at catching it on public transport is probably misplaced - I think it’s a legit concern during normal running but I haven’t seem Anything suggesting outbreaks are associated with public transport at the moment. The workplace at the other end is probably more of a worry.

Have to say cycling never crossed my mind. I think wild camping would be bonkers; and I think doing it at all is only being done to prove a point. What happens if you have a major mechanical (say a seized BB, free wheel etc) on a Sunday in the rain?

All our work travel requires a specific H&S travel plan to be prepared and reviewed before an essential travel letter is given.

Please tell me this is due to Covid?

And if travelling from Edinburgh to Carlisle, the only reason to use the Sleeper would be if you needed to stop over in London. Drive or use a (near) direct train (Edinburgh-Crewe-Cardiff) of 6 hours.

Hypothetically, if the OP could ride it within one day/one single ride, would that satisfy those of you objecting?

We’ve had a lot of WWSTWD type questions on COVID over the last year and frankly they all pale compared to this one being something a reasonable person would think is OK right now.

As it’s a business trip give HR a call and see what they say and then report back.

All our work travel requires a specific H&S travel plan to be prepared and reviewed before an essential travel letter is given.

Please tell me this is due to Covid?

Yes, as I say it’s part of the requirements to consider whether an essential travel letter is issued.

Full Member
Hypothetically, if the OP could ride it within one day/one single ride, would that satisfy those of you objecting?

I'm not sure what your point is?

If the journey could be considered 'a normal commute by bicycle for an essential journey' (whatever that is), then fair enough. I don't see how an 8 day trek could be considered reasonable.

As above, speak to a reasonable civilian (do they exist?) and get their view. This all smacks a bit of Barnard Castle wriggling/twisting the narrative to match the desired plan to me...

Well, looking out of the window here right now and it's snowing horizontally. Even if you're no stranger to Scottish inclemency I'm not sure as I'd relish the idea of cycling half the length of the country carrying enough gear to not freeze to death.

If OP can’t drive, or get access to a car, then riding it is the next best thing

Taxi, business expenses.

If you suggest that then you'll probably find out how "essential" the trip suddenly becomes, too.

Just go for it. Sounds like a fun way to get to work. I don't see the issue really. It's a trip to work. Much safer than public transport at the moment.
Don't even bother asking what anyone on here thinks about it because it's just going to bring all the magisterial brigade with their moral compasses.
I'm loving how there are so many people on here saying you should be asking your employer if it is really essential for you to be staying away for work 🤣

I've stayed away and been asked for key worker status at hotels. However, my sister in law stayed at hotels previous few weekends to go and view houses she wants to buy and wasnt asked for any proof. Took kids too, and just seemed to have had a nice few weekends away. 🤨

I’ve stayed away and been asked for key worker status at hotels. However, my sister in law stayed at hotels previous few weekends to go and view houses she wants to buy and wasnt asked for any proof. Took kids too, and just seemed to have had a nice few weekends away.

That's all right then... 🙄