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So, I went to pay a large bill online today (£37k) from my business account with Clydesdale. Turns out that I can't do BACS payments of >£10k per day without a "security token". That takes a week to come in the post, and even then only allows up to £25k/day. Apparently this is for 'fraud prevention'.
If I want to pay a larger invoice, I:
a) go into the bank to have them make a CHAPS payment for me, which costs £24 each time, or;
b) pay by debit card or write a cheque.
I don't see how either method in b) are less susceptible to fraud. And certainly in the 21st Century, what the **** am I doing still having to write cheques to pay my bills? I'm going to be faced with some pretty hefty bills in the next few months, which I'm certain I can't pay for by card. I can pay my builder with a cheque, but again, in 2017 it's a total waste of his time when I can just instantly transfer it to his bank account 🙁
Thinking that this might just be my bank's problem, I popped into Santander. They, apparently, have just imposed the same limit of £25k for BACS transfers. Madness!
Its to do with money laundering IIRC.
Natwest have a limit of £20k. Hardly the end of the world though as you can just spread the payment out over a couple of days or more. (£10k/day from Clydesdale double the hassle admittedly). If you need to do this regularly though they offer a different banking service (Bankline) for high-rollers.
Surely if you're paying an invoice for £37k, then £24 means very little in the grand scheme of it.
I've run in to this before. rarely to I get bills over £10k but one way round the limit is to plan ahead and pay 50% the day before and 50% the next day. Not ideal but most bills are on 30 days net so it's not hard to plan for and you can set payments up to 45 days in advance if you want to semi automate it.
Surely if you're paying an invoice for £37k, then £24 means very little in the grand scheme of it.
Look after the pennies...
Used to be Cater Allen will allow you to phone up and provided you passed enhanced suckurity they would let you do as much as you liked. They are part of Santander so I expect that has changed.
Yorkshire bank do 25 months free business banking.
You can do as many < £20k payments in a day as you like.
Its to do with money laundering IIRC.
This, I am probably the LAST person who wants to run to the defence of Banks, least of all Business Banks as a former and bitter ex-business bank staff member myself, but I promise there is ALWAYS a reason why Banks do odd stuff like this, it's usually 1) Money Laundering Prevention 2) Fraud Prevention 3) A way to make money, in that order.
Sadly, if you want to do 1 & 2 even remotely well, you can't go telling everyone why you're doing it in the way you're doing it or you just give criminals a way to reverse engineer a way to beat it, in fact the person you as a customer get to speak to won't know why, nor will their Supervisor or in fact their Boss - Banks are very good at keeping people who understand, manage and implement and more importantly have the power to over-ride their systems a long way away from customers or anyone who has to speak to them.
weeksy - Member
Surely if you're paying an invoice for £37k, then £24 means very little in the grand scheme of it.
Nah, business doesn't work that way, it's £24 of 'dead money' to pay a bill. We send payments like that about now and again, but we're not making fortunes (in fact we made a loss last year). It's a different mindset to an individual.
Like most financial rules, designed to make sure the banks are the only ones allowed to be criminal with money! They don't want any old amateurs money laundering for the drug lords.
It's 'free' banking with Clydesdale too. Apart from the things you get charged for...
And indeed, £24 is a fraction of £37k, but a) why should I when I want to do it online and b) it adds up over time.
The spreading payments thing is a faff, as far as I'm concerned! e.g. today's payment was to Scottish Power. I don't trust SP to put 2 and 2 together to process my multiple payments properly. One more thing to go wrong. Maybe I'm just cynical...
Last time we had one like this (Clydesdale) we sent a tenner first to make sure it landed in the right place, then followed up with (in your example) three 10K payments, plus one 7K payment (well, 6990 if you are fussy).
To be fair I'm with them and it narked me that the General never got his 52k in one hit ...which reminds me
Colp I might be wrong but I think Clydesdale and Yorkshire are the same
Last time we had one like this (Clydesdale) we sent a tenner first to make sure it landed in the right place,
A ploy often employed by bank fraudsters.
PJay has it right. The Bank is doing what it is for very good reasons which it is unable to divulge.
They are protecting your money and their liability in the event that you get ripped off.
Bank fraud is currently rife and the people who perpetrate it are very clever indeed.
....but not their husbands.Banks are very good at keeping people who understand, manage and implement and more importantly have the power to over-ride their systems a long way away from customers or anyone who has to speak to them.
Double post: As an aside, my wife once had to write to the Pope and ask him for a copy of his Driving Licence or Passport as he is a signatory on the account of the Archdiocese.
...because Money Laundering regulations
We have a £100K per day limit with HSBC. This had to be agreed with a fairly senior manager.
Every time we do a 'big' transaction (usually over £25k) we get a phone call from their fraud department to verify the transaction and make it very clear that they bear no responsibility if the money goes astray.
We always verify the account details with the recipient in person, as a wrong step could close us down. I am led to believe that this has happened to a couple of solicitors firms, with faked e-mail addresses.
We have also upped our with HSBC.
This is not a recommendation for HSBC though, bunch of *@b$
Totally ot but I read that thread title as something totally different and wondered immediately how it had got round the swear filter 😳
Yorkshire is definitely 100% free for 25 months, no charges at all. I'm saving maybe £500 / month as I pay in loads of cash
Apparently this is for 'fraud prevention'.
Not being contrary, but can't you accept this?
I doubt you'd complain if a measure such as this prevented your account being emptied.
Do you need to pay the full sum on one day?
Not being contrary, but can't you accept this?
It's not that I can't accept it, it's that I find it strange that there are no limits on what you can pay by cheque or debit card. Surely these are as open to fraud as bank transfers, or am I being naive?
It's not that I can't accept it, it's that I find it strange that there are no limits on what you can pay by cheque or debit card.
These are subject to other fraud prevention processes behind the scenes that the other methods aren't.
Apparently.
Read the title quickly and thought it was another damian green thread, apologies
Cheque and debit cards both rely on something physical as a layer of security, whereas online only payments rely on credentials which could be compromised.
The token provides an extra layer of security as it requires you to be in possession of the token at the time you want to make a payment, and it’s much harder to spoof (although not entirely impossible).
Interestingly, cheque usage was declining but may increase slightly over time when image-based clearing comes in. You’ll be able to pay by cheque but the beneficiary can pay into their account using the online app and a smartphone camera, and the clearing time will drop significantly. Paying in cheques was the only reason I ever went into a branch anyway.
Your bank charges are tax deductible so not that dead.
Look at your overall banking package then. We get day to dat free banking and a £25 yearly bonus from coop with fsb.
As an ex Clydesdale [s]inmate[/s] employee, I seem to recall you can sign up to a system called business online to to get a higher payment limit. Might be worth asking them.
I've sometimes set up several days of consecutive payments which is not really very much trouble. Biggest hassle was working out the limit which was not documented anywhere I could see.