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Two lanes continuing forward, bus in left hand lane car in right hand lane alongside bus. Two lanes merge into one with no markings on the road, or signage. Cycle lane (dashed white line) begins with a lead in from left, bus moves out (possibly to manouevre around a parked car, unsure about this as I was watching the bus and car), there is oncoming traffic so car has nowhere to move right into the opposite carriageway to avoid bus, bus and car collide.
Bus driver claims he had right of way, I'm not so sure, was just wondering what the right answer is? Left my details as a witness and told the bus driver (who claims that he held his line) that he came across into the side of the car.
Highway code doesn't seem to cover this (happy to be corrected) so was wondering what the rules are? Thanks all!
Google Maps link to the road in question?
I'm in:
50:50 - regardless of actual responsibility this involves far less work for all concerned at insurance companies and they can just bump up everybody's premium as a result
or else, Thatcher ?
The bus was infront of you so he has right of way, you where overtaking him, and didnt acknowledge his mirror siganl manouvre.
Youre not in Chester are you a few dodgy bus lanes there and on the A41.
Speed of vehicles ?
Slow moving merging queues or normal speed and car overtaking bus ?
combination of bus driver not using his mirrors/lifesaver and car driver not planning ahead/foreseeing what might happen/looking at indicators. As much as it might be "someone's" fault, its a sign of good driving not to be involved in an accident even if it's not "your fault".
Brake -horn -flash lights etc.
Both are at fault for being complete and utter ****. Who gives a whose right of way it is when you are about to crash into someone. Both should be banned.
To answer your question about laws/highway code etc - car was overtaking so should have ensured that it was safe to do so.
Maps link:
Bus in left hand lane, car in middle lane, both proceeding up the albertbridge road. (the billboards should be on your left). There is now a cycle lane that starts after the junction (not shown on streetview) but the two straight ahead lanes "merge" into one. Car driver held his line in relation to the central white line, bus moves right to move out from cycle lane or possibly a parked car. Only one lane marked after the lights...
Maps link
Huh? Just an overhead of Aberdeen, not linking to a road. Only Albertbridge Rd showing is in Belfast.
Anyway, if the inside lane merges into the outside lane, I'd say it's busdriver's fault.
so im driving my bus along a 2 lane road, that merges into a single lane, car cuts up on outside,to try and beat me to the single lane, and as i enter single lane car hits me, due to cars lack of acceleration, poor car driver reaction, or lack of planning looking ahead by car driver or just a road rage incident by the car driver looking for a compensation claim, new hire car for a family holiday etc.
It does happen.
IMHO, both drivers in the wrong. Agree with SBZ car driver more wrong as he was over-taking the bus, although from the original post it sounds a bit like the bus driver might have forced the issue. Either driver could/should have prevented the 'accident'
Project, erm, very wrong assumptions. Old man alone in car, maybe doing 20mph as is bus. Both have been proceeding alongside each other for about 100m or so.
Overhead view of aberdeen? Not when I click on it? It is the junction on the Albertbridge Road in Belfast, at the junction with Mountpottinger road, proceeding from west to east.
Maybe this will work:
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=google+maps&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl <
There is now a cycle lane that starts after the junction ... the two straight ahead lanes "merge" into one ... Only one lane marked after the lights
Changed my mind - Thatch is off the hook. If it's here, it's whoever designed the road system
(Adds: You couldn't pay me to ride a bike along that stretch, "cyclelane" or not)
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5251/5503188447_4a834c5d5a_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/23823661@N05/5503188447/ ]albertbridge[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/23823661@N05/ ]scaredypants[/url], on Flickr
Theres als a right turn arrow at the end of the hatchings
Thats a third, right hand turn only lane.
as project says, its a right turn only filter. car driver's a ****.
No - car driver was in middle, not the right-hand-turn lane.
Being "kind" to the car driver, is there a chance he was unsighted by the bus and hadn't seen the fact that the lanes were merging? I guess this depends on how far back along the length of the bus he was, and had been.
Scardeypants, agree whole heartedly, its bad enough driving it, further up it does the "split into two lanes before the junction then return to one lane after a set of traffic lights" thing again, but this time the single lane is much narrower... Fun and games!
as project says, its a right turn only filter. car driver's a ****
No - car driver was in middle, not the right-hand-turn lane
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5095/5503838442_6c4ee712d9_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/23823661@N05/5503838442/ ]albertbridge2[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/23823661@N05/ ]scaredypants[/url], on Flickr
Stoner, there are three lanes, left and middle have straight on arrows painted on the road, third is the right hand filter lane.
Druidh, there is no signage or road markings indicating the lanes merging, it just crosses the junction and all of a sudden there is no lane markings apart from the central dividing white line.
Car would have been between the wheelbase of the bus, approximately. Front of bus certainly in front of cars nose. No signalling from the bus or car.
I'd vote both to blame but neither to blame as much as the idiot who designed the junction
Bit of a messy junction. Dunno who's fault it would be, but I wouldn't try and go around a bus through it - you can't see what's going on up ahead, and buses are very big, especially in what looks like a (potentially) very crowded junction.
my mistake. pic from further back makes it clearer.
Than I stand by my original comment. Both a pair of dicks for not planning for the road lane changes. And the highways planner is a **** instead.
Best tell both of them not to drive round the North Circular, or for that matter the South Circular, or the Cromwell Road or well TBH mainland UK as those kinds of lane merges are very common. I reckon the car driver is mostly at fault - I assume that he's local so should know how that road works.
That's one of the worst marked junctions I've ever seen. There should be a "lanes merging" roadsign somewhere, surely?
Looking at it now, 50:50 outcome, barely affecting the bus company's outlay on insurance but doubling the old geezers.
Hmm. I tend to think 50:50 as the car driver might have been unsighted enough not to see the inside lane ending, especially as it's then going round a left hand bend, but then he shouldn't have assumed it was OK if he couldn't see.
The bus driver obviously didn't look in his mirror either, or he'd have seen the car.
Right-of-way is irrelevant if it's going to result in an accident.
And your assumption is based on what, exactly?aP - Member
I assume that he's local so should know how that road works.
From the point where the solid white line crosses the road it is a single lane.
If the car driver can't complete his overtaking manoeuvre by then, he should give way to any vehicle on his left.
The bus driver is entitled to use the full width of the lane.
Thing is he wasn't trying to go round the bus, just keep going, when the bus moved further out from the kerb, giving the old fella (in my opinion) nowhere to go.
No signs, no road marked arrows, nowt.
I agree, a bit of common sense and manners should have prevailed, but the bus driver was adamant he was right, and I dont think he's on such solid ground. Was interested to hear if there are any rules governing the incident.
Oh and the road planners are growing more fond of these two into one without any warning junctions around these parts, mainly due to idiotic kerbline changes!
From the point where the solid white line crosses the road it is a single lane.
If the car driver can't complete his [u]overtaking manoeuvre[/u]* by then, he should give way to any vehicle on his left.
[u]The bus driver is entitled to use the full width of the lane[/u]**.
*Eh? It's two distinct and seperate lanes at a traffic-light controlled junction with no indication that it merges into one. What overtaking is going on?
**And so is the car driver.
May I digress?
This one always raises a [s]chuckle[/s] near accident
luckily nobody's daft enough to ride a bike on it as far as I've ever seen
Traffic in the 2 LHS lanes at bottom left of pic is joining (1st exit) a 3-lane road that's heading for a motorway. Since it's a 3-lane road, all the cocks in a rush to get home use the RHS separated lane (intended for 2nd and 3rd exits) to shove themselves into the outer lane of the 1st exit. trouble is that the inside lane of this new road is a left turn only about 50yards from the roundabout, so the 3 lanes of traffic are all trying for the 2 outer lanes.
Luckily, there's also lots of lost ferry traffic blundering about (and eventually needing to be in the LHS "exiting" lane) as well as a speed camera to brake 🙄 for at about 100 yards into the new road
The speed camera's there because of all the crashes that occur but only serves to worsen them. Crying out for better signage on the outside entry lane. Piss-poor planning and risible failure to "police" the tossers in the outside lane - camera on the lights and a "no left turn" sign is all that's needed (and, Christ, they'd make some money 😯 )
(anyway, to the point):
[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5292/5503898300_38a0378b3d_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/23823661@N05/5503898300/ ]275hope[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/23823661@N05/ ]scaredypants[/url], on Flickr
The correct answer is that regardless of right or wrong, the bus driver will not admit it, and even if stationary in a 7 tonne bus when grazed by a vehicle in th lightest of brush past collisions, will suffer terrible "whiplash injuries" and "psychological damage", and will have at least a fortnight off work, possibly more with the right GP signing off the fat bastard. He will probably use Thompsons Solicitors under his union membership. Car driver realising that incident was trivial and even on 5050 will lose ncd will tell his insurers he isnt bothered about defending the matter. Bus driver will get enough from a judge asd his solicitors are not ones who will ever accept an insurers offer out of court.
Solicitors will get 10k costs. Bus driver £7k. Everyones insurance goes up.
Along with taxi drivers, police officers, and then public servants, bus drivers are the most suceptible to "knowing their rights", sorry, of getting hurt in any incident of any triviality.
Meanwhile, back in the real world.
Our buses are self insured and I believe we have our own solicitors as well, just as we have our own driving instructors and mechanics.
I've never known a bus driver take time off work or claim for injuries after an accident.
All our buses are fitted with live satellite tracking. Two passengers tried to claim for whiplash injuries after a minor collision once. The tracking device proved the bus was stationary at the time.
It's hard to know what really happened in the incident above from one eye witness account, but the balance of probability, from previous experience, is that the bus driver was trying to make progress and get his passengers to their destination on schedule, while the car driver committed himself to an overtaking manoeuvre without thinking it through, relying on the bus to move out of his way.
I dunno about the legality of who's at fault, but it's generally a very bad idea to be alongside buses. This is exactly the kind of thing that can happen because you can see naff all. I tend to slow down or speed up (preferably the former) to avoid this.
Yet another thing they don't teach you in driving school...
On the subject of two lanes into one - it seems like the proper way to mark the junctions out is to have a little bit of two lane after the lights. You wanna have a strong word with your council I reckon.
You've got to remember this bus driver has probably driven this route many times before, has a professional drivers license, and should be one of the most highly skilled groups of drivers in the UK (driving a large vehicle almost exclusively in heavy traffic)
Irrespective of fault, s/he should be aware of the junction, and been able to avoid the accident through a combination of mirrors and forward planning.
On the other hand, the old duffer has been driving alongside the bus for 100yds which is never a good thing, and at 20mph he should have been able to stop within a few metres to avoid the bus. He obviously wasn't paying enough attention.
Bus companies usually have body shops and I've heard that in the past (don't know if this is still how it works) they will take the damaged car in and fix it themselves rather than go through the insurance.
Spooky, we do all our own bus repairs, mechanical and bodywork, but we never repair other people's vehicles.
Thought that might be the case, a work colleague told me this but it was probably in the 'good old days'
Thinking about this a bit more, it is possible that we have got a car repair workshop somewhere for insurance claims, although I've never heard of it and it seems unlikely due to a possible conflict of interests.
It's more likely that we have got a list of approved independent garages that we use, just as we have got a list of approved suppliers for parts and services for the buses.
Have a look at the next junction if you think this one is bad! The bus driver would have know about the parked cars, there always is outside of the clearway times. They may be 'professional' drivers doesn't mean they have to be good at it 😉
Still not sure why the car has to avoid the bus when the car was holding his position on the road and the bus was moving across the lane. If you didn't know the junction, you would assume the TWO straight ahead lanes continued on through the junction as there is no signage to the contrary. The car and bus were continuing alongside each other as they had done for the previous 100m or so (at least, its a multi lane road at that point), the car was not trying to overtake or dive past, he was just continuing straight ahead at a very similar speed as he had no warning two lanes were about to become a single lane! So the car driver was given nowhere to go when the bus moved across (driver mustn't have checked his mirrors, or if he did simply thought he could bully the car into avoiding action) and the sides of the two vehicles hit. The car was braking but the side of the bus then rubbed up the side of the (now stationary) car. The bus driver then continued up the road unaware he had struck the car, such was his professional driving standards!
Thanks for the replies, interesting stuff!
Project-you mean heading out of chester over the grovesner bridge?
This happens all the time-people fire around the inside of the island before it and try and out drag the queing traffic before the single lane bridge.I rely on the fact that i don't give a flying fig about my car whilst smiling directly at them.
50/50 when they are side by side on a single land.
From the point where the solid white line crosses the road it is a single lane.
If the car driver can't complete his overtaking manoeuvre by then, he should give way to any vehicle on his left.
The bus driver is entitled to use the full width of the lane.
That's how I see it too.
Me being a ultra cautious in thouse situations, I have found it far less stressfull to let the other party through in 50/50 situations.
Bus drivers are arseholes, been run off the road held up forced to take avoiding action so many times it's hard to remember.
But if the driver claims he held his line and didn't according to the video on board he's in trouble. If the bus hit the car towards the rear he's in trouble as it will be claimed he hit the car. The only people to get rich out of this one will be the insurance companies.
There's quite a few situations (2 lanes into 1 no markings) like this on my commute including a couple right around the corner form my house, they wind me up no end. What really annoys is when I'm driving and trying to merge I'll brake to let the guy beside me take the lane and me merge in behind him, whoever is behind him will invariably speed up to prevent me merging - Grrrr.
Here's [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bolton&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bolton,+Greater+Manchester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ll=53.575945,-2.419438&spn=0.016869,0.032401&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.575856,-2.419638&panoid=I3q7kHp0hhLas9w2703-4Q&cbp=12,54.72,,0,4.4 ]one[/url]
And [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bolton&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bolton,+Greater+Manchester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&layer=c&cbll=53.557696,-2.401363&panoid=zLL463DHhicTy1hYs1kjWA&cbp=11,170.71,,0,10.96&ll=53.557671,-2.401328&spn=0.007622,0.032401&z=15 ]another[/url]
And [url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bolton&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bolton,+Greater+Manchester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ll=53.575945,-2.419438&spn=0.016869,0.032401&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.575856,-2.419638&panoid=I3q7kHp0hhLas9w2703-4Q&cbp=12,54.72,,0,4.4 ]another right after that[/url] not actually marked for 2 lanes but very wide so conducive to 2 abreast driving, narrows after junction tho.
Dangerous for cyclists too when drivers don't want to merge so drive 2 abreast, LH car 2" from the kerb, RH car 2ft over central road marking.
Rorschach - Member
Project-you mean heading out of chester over the grovesner bridge?
This happens all the time-people fire around the inside of the island before it and try and out drag the queing traffic before the single lane bridge.I rely on the fact that i don't give a flying fig about my car whilst smiling directly at them.Posted 5 hours ago # Report-Post
Hoole bridge outbound,
Sealand road near staples,
Grosvenor bridge coming into chester,
The bus lane at Curzon park roundabout and also the bus lane on Hough green, 2 places,
A41 near the old zoo turn off, heading out iof chester,
and finally the A41 eading both ways at little sutton, and great sutton.
Dangerous for cyclists too when drivers don't want to merge so drive 2 abreast, LH car 2" from the kerb, RH car 2ft over central road marking
Absolutely. Nothing worse as a cyclist and they're all over the place in London.
Drivers fault as he's in the second lane "overtaking" however ultimately it's the road designers fault for not labelling it correctly and the bus driver gets a kick for being an idiot and not avoiding the crash too (it's easy enough for him to brake as he'd see the car next to him).
Both could avoid this crash by one or both stopping, but neither did.
You've got to remember this bus driver has probably driven this route many times before, has a professional drivers license, and should be one of the most highly skilled groups of drivers in the UK (driving a large vehicle almost exclusively in heavy traffic)Irrespective of fault, s/he should be aware of the junction, and been able to avoid the accident through a combination of mirrors and forward planning
This is a good point. I often see drivers of large vehicles straddling lanes because they know that there is an upcoming section where there is not enough room for other vehicles alongside. If the bus drive knows the route (which you would assume was likely) maybe he should have been more prepared for this sort of eventuality.
There's plenty of roads where the left lane merges into the right lane. They're usually signed, but I still find it a bit odd - who has right of way? Normally the right lane is passing and needs to merge back in, not the other way.