[Closed] Bus lane fine

I bet it wouldn't. People [b]who pay not attention[/b] wouldn't notice it because it was a red circle with a bus on it.

😀

I'm not so sure. No entry means no entry to your general driver. Bus lanes can often be legally driven on. The current signage is definitely not doing a very good job!

Well done for spotting a spelling mistake Charile. I've been awake since 11am yesterday so I'm blaming extenuating circumstances.

Didn't realise it was a spelling mistake, thought it was a typo.
But you do well to make the point that we can't always pay full attention all the time, even when it matters.

aracer - Member

ernie_lynch » I am particularly good about avoiding killing wildlife. Robins have nothing to fear from me.

How do you know if you don't see them?

Of course I see them, I'm always looking out for wildlife.

Wildlife is at the top of my priority list - before Micra drivers but after the Old Bill.

[quote=CharlieMungus ]But you do well to make the point that we can't always pay full attention all the time, even when it matters.

Congratulations on making the point that people shouldn't be driving when tired!

But you do well to make the point that we can't always pay full attention all the time, even when it matters.

Who do I appeal to fot paying attention.

Congratulations on making the point that people shouldn't be driving when tired!

However, we live in the real world

Who do I appeal to fot paying attention.

How about this for a Bus Lane

[IMG] [/IMG]

If they had a camera on this they would make a fortune. As you can see, it's very short and ends just before the traffic signals meaning, if you drive correctly and want the left lane, you have to come over at a 45 degree angle to stop in the left lane at the lights.

It's the only 24 hour bus lane in town, the rest being 7am - 10am then 4 pm - 7pm so guess how many motorists drive in this short bus lane ? I'd say 80% of people drive straight through it.

I drove to Buchanan Galleries car park in Glasgow. The final approach is along a one-way street that at the car park entry becomes a bus lane.

The car park was closed and the entry blocked with scaffolding. I had to drive through the bus lane to escape.

Glasgow City Council sent me a fine, I disputed it but they didn't want to know. I'd seen no signage warning of a closed carpark, so submitted a FOI request regarding alteration to signage on the approach. They were only able to supply details of PROPOSED signage, and were unable to show evidence that the proposed signs were ever put in place.

I appealed to the Adjudicator and they had had "scores" of identical appeals and they rules against GCC. I was refunded the fine that I had paid.

If you can prove it was unreasonable, it is worth pursuing.

I got caught out in leeds completely by accident, dark, Rainey, trying to figure out how to get somewhere with the one way maze in the busy town centre.

It sucks.

We've had three of these through the letterbox today, pretty sure I've got grounds for appeal - road closure and a big yellow diversion sign pointing me in that direction.

If I appeal in good time but it gets turned down, is the reduced fine still honoured?

Sorry for the slight highjack.

No info on the Council website or ticket? It's going to be up to the Council. The info was clearly printed on my last ticket.

Haven't actually seen it yet since I'm at work...my other half just messaged me with the good news!

If I appeal in good time but it gets turned down, is the reduced fine still honoured?

Generally, yes. Appeals tend to "stop the clock".

Ok cool, I'll revisit the junction tonight and get a picture of the diversion sign...thanks

Haze - Member

If I appeal in good time but it gets turned down, is the reduced fine still honoured?

I rang Brent Council to see whether an appeal 'stopped the clock' and they confirmed that it did.
I guess the appeals process wouldn't work otherwise, because people wouldn't want to take the risk of an appeal being turned down.

Hmmm. Think it might be time to invest in a Diversion sign to stick in the boot 8)

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38957371 ]31 million a year[/url]

[quote=CharlieMungus ]However, we live in the real world

The real world where bad driving is so normalised that it's seen as acceptable?

From Klunk's article: [i]We would firmly stress that bus lanes are not there to generate income[/i]

Well obviously the bloody [i]lanes[/i] aren't!

I don't get this 'they are just making money' argument. You know they don't give it to the councillors to pocket it, don't you? It gets spent on us.

It gets spent on us.

CharlieMungus » However, we live in the real world

[quote=aracer]The real world where bad driving is so normalised that it's seen as acceptable?

2 weeks for that snappy comeback?

but erm.. the answer is 'No'

I don't get this 'they are just making money' argument. You know they don't give it to the councillors to pocket it, don't you? It gets spent on us.

Someone once described speeding fines as a "stupid tax", that is it is very easy to avoid getting them, it's just stupid behaviour (not necessarily stupid people) that is caught.

Bus lane cameras seem to fall into this bracket too, and because the money ends up back in the local govt coffers it can be spent on improvements that everyone can appreciate, ergo a tax!

The real world where bad driving is so normalised

Unfortunately much poor driving is normalised. Everything from red light jumping to using a hand held phone. Not much is socially unacceptable when it comes to driving as the majority do it and "there but for the grace of god go I" is the message most take away when they are pulled up on it.

I some bus lanes are resulting in significant revenue raising then signage needs to be looked at - or are those getting caught just more stupid/antisocial than in other areas?

are those getting caught just more stupid/antisocial than in other areas?

Could be signage, could be demographic, could be road geometry or highway layout (someone earlier mentioned about decluttering the streets - excess signage). Could even be something as simple as the local council never having targeted motorists before in that area, but an accident meant it rose up the political profile and "something had to be done".

Every site is different.

Edited to add - Ultimately though, as long as it is legally correct then the burden of responsibility should be on the motorist to be aware of what they are doing and where they are doing it.

[i]I some bus lanes are resulting in significant revenue raising then signage needs to be looked at - or are those getting caught just more stupid/antisocial than in other areas? [/I]

IMO so many different rules/times etc that folk are confused often - I often drive into Edinburgh and although the bus lane is only operative in certain hours folk mostly don't use it at all as that way no way can they be fined etc.

And on a motorcycle you're allowed in some bus lanes and then not others, often in the same area (and same street in some parts of London).

CharlieMungus - Member

CharlieMungus » However, we live in the real world

aracer » The real world where bad driving is so normalised that it's seen as acceptable?

2 weeks for that snappy comeback?

but erm.. the answer is 'No'

Have you thought of joining the Lodge of Big Hitters?

[quote=CharlieMungus ]2 weeks for that snappy comeback?
but erm.. the answer is 'No'

My humblest apologies for not sticking to an appropriate timescale for replying to Charlie - my only excuse, poor as it may be is that I only just noticed your comment upon revival of the thread.

So if you're not trying to suggest that driving when tired is normalised, exactly what point was it you were making with your "real world" comment?

Those blue signs are used on the tram network in Manchester. There are a ridiculous number of incidents of people driving through them and then grounding their cars when the 'road with tramlines' turns into proper tracks.

I'm sure it would happen far less if no entry signs were used.

@beztweets has looked into this. I don't think anyone has managed to find any collisions (or certainly cyclist deaths) where a cyclist jumping a red light was the cause. The reality is that while motorists jump red lights as they change to red (or some seconds after), at speed, cyclists tend to jump red lights early, before they change, to get a head start having clearly checked the junction is clear.

Just to be [i]that guy[/i]: motorists and cyclists are "jumping the lights" and committing a traffic offence if they cross the stop line on a solid [b]AMBER[/b] light*

But given that [i]"bad driving is so normalised"[/i], most people seem to take amber to mean [i]"put your foot down"[/i] 😐

.

* (unless you are so close when it changes that you can't reasonably stop without risking an accident).

Ohh I love your positivity Molgrips.

It's bin day today. Just sayin.

So if you're not trying to suggest that driving when tired is normalised, exactly what point was it you were making with your "real world" comment?

That sometimes people drive when they are a bit tired, not everyone can drive at peak form all the time.

@beztweets has looked into this. I don't think anyone has managed to find any collisions (or certainly cyclist deaths) where a cyclist jumping a red light was the cause.

Southampton striker Charlie Austin mowed down a suicyclist in October. Was in the papers just over two weeks ago.

That sometimes people drive when they are a bit tired, not everyone can drive at peak form all the time.

Which is why there are signs on many motorways warning "tiredness can kill". If it hadn't been normalised then these wouldn't be necessary.

Of course I'm being facetious, I know you weren't on a motorway, and I think the risks involved at your location where very different, but as a wider comment on the standard of behaviour expected from the average driver it says a lot.

molgrips - Member

I don't get this 'they are just making money' argument.

😆

Cameras in my neck of the woods might be coming down because they are "not making enough money".

Southampton striker Charlie Austin mowed down a suicyclist in October. Was in the papers just over two weeks ago.

Interestingly he also admitted to driving without due care and attention.

Cameras in my neck of the woods might be coming down because they are "not making enough money".

Is that true?

Southampton striker Charlie Austin mowed down a suicyclist in October.

Cameras in my neck of the woods might be coming down because they are "not making enough money"

is that the one where the cyclist was knocked senseless has no memory of the event and the driver said the cyclist RLJed?

Was there any other evidence other than the driver's account? (witness/cctv)

An odd set of lights for one to be amber and the other green though. Unless it's a big junction and there isn't time for a cyclist to clear the junction if they go through on amber.

I hate lights turning amber when I'm on the bike. More often than not, the car behind me will keep going. So I either brake, and risk getting wiped out from behind, or carry on through the junction (slower than the car that was behind me) and end up looking like I've jumped a red, or gone through an amber when I could have stopped. Which is true, *I* could have stopped, but the tailgating idiot behind me had no intention of stopping too.

bails - Member

Seemingly not.

Are you saying that the cyclist got done for jumping the lights purely on the evidence of the driver that hit him?

What is this, fantasists Thursday?

Interestingly he also admitted to driving without due care and attention.

Green means proceed if safe. It wasn't. Correct result.

Must be great living in a world where nobody does night shifts. Guess I'd better sleep at my work from now on. Because in the real world nobody wants to cycle home in the howling wind and pissing rain*.

*Not this is seemingly ever an excuse in the STW universe where people know more about prevailing weather conditions than the person who deals with them.

I hate lights turning amber when I'm on the bike. More often than not, the car behind me will keep going.

Is that true?

Yes, though I was referring to speed cameras, not bus lane cameras. I'll see if I can find the quote (t'was in the local rag).
No bus lanes in my town, though there is one very short one way road only for buses, which is sensibly marked with a no entry sign.
We have large pits for cars to drive into (guided busway) and they do from time to time.

[quote=CharlieMungus ]

So if you're not trying to suggest that driving when tired is normalised, exactly what point was it you were making with your "real world" comment?

Hmm, so it is normalised then? And it looks an awful lot like you're condoning it. Because otherwise why reply in such a way to my post suggesting people shouldn't drive when they've been awake for as long as Drac had been when he made the comment you gave your original clever reply to? Which in case you missed it was more than "a bit tired".

Amber lights are an issue for all road users and the problem is self perpetuating and growing.

If you can't brake to a halt really gently and there is anything following then in many places and especially at rush hour you stand a real chance of getting hit from behind as someone races the amber. The result of this sort of thing is a temptation for more people to not stop which means people worry the car behind won't, which means that...You get the idea.

On the other side you have the go on red and amber brigade.

Basically it's a bloody mess!

[quote=D0NK ]There are a number of junctions I know that amber is quite risky - even when it only goes amber as you're crossing the stop line, small ones with very short change over sequence and large ones with medium length change over - a problem if you're doing 15mph or less

The set of traffic lights I have to negotiate every time I want to enter the real world are on quite a significant uphill coming from home and I'd normally be doing closer to 10 than 15 even from a flying start. It's also not a small junction and they also don't have a huge dwell time between phases. Hence there's no way I'd go through on amber even if it's only just changed, because even going through on green just before it changes to amber I'll still be in the junction when the cross traffic has green.

Have you thought of joining the Lodge of Big Hitters

Nowhere near enough posts, don't reckon you guys would let me in

And it looks an awful lot like you're condoning it. Because otherwise why reply in such a way to my post suggesting people shouldn't drive when they've been awake for as long as Drac had been when he made the comment you gave your original clever reply to?

True, there could be no other possible reason, it does appear that way. 🙄