[Closed] Bus lane fine

I can put it down to shit happens or i can appeal, but is there any point???

No. HTH.

I say fight it.

You'll lose, but you'll go down swinging.

Have they sent you proof?

When I got caught doing it there was a picture width the letter and they kindly provided a web link if I wanted to watch myself on video.

You deserve the fine for question mark abuse.

mrmo - Member

I was there so i must have.

Yeah definitely appeal. Say it was your evil twin brother, that'll fool them.

just to be clear this isn't a "bus lane" think of a road that goes from a to b and in the middle is a chicane through which cars are banned.

Were you driving a car?

I questioned one I got in that London, they sent me a blurred photo without number plate recognised, so I fought it and got off. Quite how they new it was me with the number plate illegiable is beyond me but hey.
Then I got caught in Camden for 10mins over parking and a £40 fine, so life has a habit of equating itself.

Buy a bus, transfer your car number plate onto that. You win.

Not really any point, just pay up unless you are rock solid you did nothing wrong

I got fined for driving in a bus lane by Ealing Council

I paid it but was sure I hadn't done anything wrong so went back to check where it happened. When I went back I remembered there was a contra flow in progress for road works which forced you to drive in the bus lane.

Wrote a letter to highways department they confirmed that I was correct.

Wrote a letter to Ealing Council who acknowledged the mistake but refused to refund the fine as I didn't contest it at the time. Gave up and now just have a story about unfair bus lane fines that cost me £60

(want a cool story meme now)

[img] [/img]

Pay it quickly and it should be discounted to £30. What's your time worth to fight this?

I note from comments on the internet that this camera seems to be quite a revenue generator for the council. c4000 fines in the last 12 months....

Find me a camera that people caught *don't* consider a revenue generator. There's a very clearly marked bus lane filter near me that featured in the local paper - one of the interviewed drivers complained that she'd been caught twice....

Is this it?

I would say it is fairly well signposted, no excuse on that point.

The logic of it being a restricted lane isn't immediately obvious though, maybe they are trying to stop the road being a rat run.

[img] [/img]

MSP, no no that one, or at least i don't think so

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @51.839886,-2.1801458,3a,75y,101.51h,75.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg-XzlddMxdKcrMp2g2tTXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

As said i was lost realised going in wrong direction went through a narrow bit turned round in the road and went back through didn't see any signs wet road, crap weather, crap street lights, nighttime, building sight so loads of mud on road, etc. just the usual excuses.

You should have a photo with the fine. My wife had a lovely snapshot when driving my car along a bus lane last year. 😆

Is the automatic reaction to a fine etc "how can I get away with this?" these days?

I got caught out a few years ago in Bradford, the lane in question was a section about 30 yards long that appeared to have been set up for revenue collection purposes. The signage was minimal but after reading a few money saving expert type sites I decided not to bother contesting it. I just never go to Bradford centre for anything anymore.

Just looking at Google maps there is a sign on both sides of the road and written on the floor that it's for busses and taxis only plus a sign saying cameras in operation. You have no chance I am afraid.

https://www.google.com/maps/ @51.839886,-2.1801458,3a,82.2y,123.63h,79.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg-XzlddMxdKcrMp2g2tTXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Rotor i know, but when lost you tend not to pay full attention to details, particularly when the weather is crap and you are crawling along looking for street signs about 3 foot off the ground. yes they have enclosed a picture, but to be honest you can see virtually nothing, you can't see signs, the road is barely visible, etc

Paid it what is the point of contesting it i'll only lose.

I recently asked a similar question about a car park fine. In the end, it's a toss up between the hassle and stress of disputing the fine, or just paying out the bit of cash. Part of the dilemma is that these gits make shitloads out of people that don't want the hassle, nice work if you can get it.
Only you can the decision in the end.

This one?

[IMG] [/IMG]

You need glasses.

Drac now remove the sunlight, note the large number of non existent street lights, what you don't see is the building site round the corner so cover the road is crap, and add pissing rain.

The picture they have sent me has only one thing clearly visible my number plate the rest is dark and murky, i can see what looks like the no entry signs, you can see the shape but it looks like they weren't lit up so all. certainly can't pick up any marking on the road.

Drac now remove the sunlight, note the large number of non existent street lights, what you don't see is the building site round the corner so cover the road is crap, and add pissing rain.

Right, but you were asking about appealing. I don't think there's any point. There are at least four signs on streetview telling you no through access/saying 'Buses only', and it's painted on the road too. "You put a load of signs up but I ignored them, so I'm not paying the fine" doesn't really work.

I can see how a stressed, lost driver, in bad weather could miss them, but that doesn't mean you can appeal, or that you're a victim of the council's scheming.

mrmo - Member
Drac now remove the sunlight, note the large number of non existent street lights, what you don't see is the building site round the corner so cover the road is crap, and add pissing rain.

Unless you are local to the area I think it would be difficult to avoid driving into that lane unintentionally. This is because when you follow an empty lane you will keep driving until you come to a stop or dead end. The only way you can avoid driving into that lane is by driving at 10mph or below while looking around for road signs etc ...

Where I am now I get cars driving into one way street all the time because drivers are not familiar with the area. When I visit my friends I have to google map first before I go ...

I think you can write to them politely to ask them to reconsider because you are not from that area. Otherwise, I think they got you ...

I got threatened with a fine a few years ago for cycling in a bus lane, it didnt have a bike pictogram signage so cyclists couldnt cycle in it

You see that big black pole next to the sign, i think that might be a street light.

If it's any consolation, I got one a while back after taking a tuesday and wednesday off and assuming that the rest of the world had also adapted to my relocated weekend.

remove the sunlight, note the large number of non existent street lights, what you don't see is the building site round the corner so cover the road is crap, and add pissing rain.

Tell them this, you're bound to get an appeal.

I mean who can be expected to look out for road signs?

They're making a fortune, ask Dez.

I've no idea how old that photo is as if you move a few feet along the road isn't surfaced.

Errmmm - I f you claim you were not paying sufficient attention to see the signs is that an admission of careless driving? It could be a a baby robins face next time or something 😉

I know it's fun to pile on, but I can see the OP's point. A place you don't know, it's dark and pissing it down. I know most here are driving gods, with fully intact greenhouses, but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances.

Jamie - Member
... but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances.

I find British roads too complicated with too many rules at times but then that is the norm. I usually get the look from other drivers when I drive too slowly in unfamiliar areas ...

Some of the roundabouts ... crikey ... 😆

I know it's fun to pile on, but I can see the OP's point.

I agree. In [i]the old days[/i] they used to have very clear "no entry" signs - big read things with a white bar across the middle, you couldn't miss them. Sometimes they had "except buses" or taxis, or bicycles, or whatever, written on them.

Now they have these pale blue signs with loads of small pictures on them that you have to decipher as you're driving along unfamiliar roads.

Central Croydon is a nightmare with regards to this, they have pale blue signs with pictures of trams, buses, bicycles, and the word "taxi" on them, in various combinations. And just to properly confuse you some of the pale blue signs with pictures of trams on them only apply certain times. So you have to work out what the picture on the sign says and what time/day it is, whilst driving with someone up your arse and trying to figure out what turning to take.

It's bad enough for local people but for someone who doesn't know the area it must be a total nightmare. Bring back the red no entry signs!

I know it's fun to pile on, but I can see the OP's point. A place you don't know, it's dark and pissing it down. I know most here are driving gods, with fully intact greenhouses, but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances.

Me too but I've never tried to blame the council for me missing a sign.

Is the automatic reaction to a fine etc "how can I get away with this?" these days?

These are times of austerity. £30 might not seem much to some folks but it really unbalanced my weekly budget. I can see why trying to find a way to avoid it is relevant to some.

Drac, being a bit harsh here, can only hope you've had a bit of a drink otherwise you're coming across as a bit of an arse. Mainly the middle bit.

OP is not blaming the council, merely pointing out the extenuating circumstances.

But ultimately, OP, I think you'll have to pay.

What extenuating circumstances? Would that be extenuating circumstances if he hadn't seen a cyclist? considering these factors to be "extenuating circumstances" is why car drivers who kill cyclists don't get proper punishment. the OP is lucky its just a small fine for a bus lane infringement

What extenuating circumstances? Would that be extenuating circumstances if he hadn't seen a cyclist?

It was dark and raining often seems to work. Even though being dark happens everyday and we get rain fairly often too.

The OP was looking for a road sign for somewhere but missed the road sign telling him about a bus lane. Why would you think that you can appeal that I've no idea.

These are times of austerity. £30 might not seem much to some folks but it really unbalanced my weekly budget. I can see why trying to find a way to avoid it is relevant to some.

the OP is lucky its just a small fine for a bus lane infringement

No he's not lucky, a large fine or prison sentence would not have been appropriate for driving a bus lane.

And not noticing a bus lane is quite different to not noticing a cyclist and killing them.

I have on very rare occasions through confusion ended up in the wrong lane, there is a chance I might do it again in the future. I have never hit a cyclist, even when they have done something stupid, and hopefully never will.

He is lucky in that his inattention did not result in something with more serious consequences. Could have been a robins face etc.

I can be inattentive about minor things and yet at the same time be attentive about major things.

I am particularly good about avoiding killing wildlife. Robins have nothing to fear from me.

I can be inattentive about minor things and yet at the same time be attentive about major things.

He is lucky in that his inattention did not result in something with more serious consequences

No, he would have been unlucky if that had happened. If you believe in such things.

Even though being dark happens everyday and we get rain fairly often too.

Yup, and every time that makes it harder to see stuff

[i]He is lucky in that his inattention did not result in something with more serious consequences. Could have been a robins face etc.[/i]

I think that is a little unfair tjagain. It is well known that when we concentrate on one thing the brain 'shuts off' other information gathered unless it is perceived to be of danger to us (that dancing monkey video in the middle of a basketball game is a good example of this). I have also been a victim of this human condition when I was caught speeding on a dual carriageway where I hadn't noticed the change of speed limit from 60km/h to 50km/h as I was concentrating on looking for a street name in a city I wasn't familiar with. It wasn't wilfull disregard of the law but like the op is going to have to do I just had to suck it up and put it down experience.

Yup, and every time that makes it harder to see stuff

Precisely hence why it's not extenuating.

What gets me about this thread is these excuses some are giving are the same excuses car drivers give when hitting cyclists and then its all outrage on here - just think about it chaps.

Precisely hence why it's not extenuating.

Why is that?

What gets me about this thread is these excuses some are giving are the same excuses car drivers give when hitting cyclists and then its all outrage on here - just think about it chaps.

It's not excuses, it's explanation or justification

If it had been - " I missed seeing a cyclist and knocked him off but it was dark and raining and I was lost on unfamiliar roads" would you be so understanding?

the hypocrisy is breathtaking

I doubt you'll get anywhere with contesting the fine.

I got done for going in a short strip of bus lane on the run up to a set of traffic lights in Wembley high road.
Just prior to the lights, the bus lane ends and there is no bus lane after the lights. At the lights there are two lanes.
There were several cars in the right hand lane (the rearmost had it's right turn indicator on and I know from experience you can get stuck behind this queue if they are all turning right) so I moved into the left lane.
Before moving over, I had a glance at the bus lane sign & decided the bus lane rules didn't apply at that time.

But, I didn't realise it was an event day at the stadium (a footie match) and you aren't allowed in bus lanes on event days.
It does say this on the bus lane sign, but it doesn't tell you whether it is an event day or not.

There are other signs in other locations that tell you whether it's an event day.
As above, regarding signage - I hadn't specifically been looking for signs to tell me if it was an event day or not. I have driven up that road hundreds of times before, I know what the hazards are, the speed limit is etc; the only thing I did wrong was being unaware that there was a football match a mile & a half up the road.

I checked the lane before moving & held no one up & was only in the lane for a matter of seconds. I got an £80, I think....

I contested it & basically got told 'tough, you should have known it was an event day and the rules are the rules'.
That's what annoys me about it....there is no common sense applied to these things and unless you want to take it to court there is no one to rationally explain it to. I explained all the circumstances, that it was a considered move for a certain reason, I held no one up etc. and just got a reply with said 'tough'.

I know won't use the bus lanes in that area at all, because I don't want to get done again and there are so many rules about when you can & can't use them it's easier to just avoid them.
Even my parents who live there & drive around the area all the time don't use the bus lanes....

tjagain - Member

If it had been - " I missed seeing a cyclist and knocked him off but it was dark and raining and I was lost on unfamiliar roads" would you be so understanding?

the hypocrisy is breathtaking

I think we're slipping into old 'black & white' TJ mode here.....

When I drive, there are loads of things I ignore & there are loads of things I pay attention to. I (probably) sub-consciously prioritise them based on experience.
In unfamiliar circumstances I would be much more likely to miss a road sign because I had deemed the road layout, the cars, the cyclists, the bollards, the parked cars, that junction over there etc etc. more important than a small blue sign that doesn't really matter.

You are nuts if you think 'I didn't see that road sign' is equal to 'I didn't see that cyclist'......in fact, I might even miss a road sign because I was being cautious around a cyclist and more of my awareness was being taken up on driving appropriately in the cyclist's vicinity....

8pm why would it need to be a bus lane at that time of day?
I can see the point during peak times but not at that time of day.

Having said that it is Gloucester and very little would surprise me about the council doing stupid things.

Could have been worse, op

Could have been worse, op

Those single bollards at the traffic lights were savage. What's the reasoning behind them over just having regular traffic lights?

[I]I know it's fun to pile on, but I can see the OP's point. A place you don't know, it's dark and pissing it down. I know most here are driving gods, with fully intact greenhouses, but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances. [/I]

+1

I always appeal, and on 50% on them have won (using bus lanes in central London when on a motorcycle because some you can and some you can't).

In a few of the cases TfL didn't contest and/or didn't turn up.

[quote=Jamie ]Those single bollards at the traffic lights were savage. What's the reasoning behind them over just having regular traffic lights?

Youtube hits?

so life has a habit of equating itself

I assume this was a typo and meant to be

so life has a habit of eating itself

I guess the OP's gripe is how you get in a tiswas trying to find your way through a badly designed maze and end up getting fined for not noticing a sign.

I regularly drive down a piece of road that is a bus lane (and taxi etc.) up to 7p.m. Mon to Sat. It's usually after 7p.m. when I'm there and nobody is using the bus lane (certainly no buses at that time). I zoom down it undertaking everybody and hoping nobody suddenly pulls in. The fact that I am in an Octavia and driving like an idiot probably means they assume I'm a taxi anyway.

[quote=ernie_lynch ]I am particularly good about avoiding killing wildlife. Robins have nothing to fear from me.

How do you know if you don't see them?

How do you know if you don't see them?

They tweet him to say thanks.

I've no idea how old that photo is as if you move a few feet along the road isn't surfaced.

There's a brilliant bit of Street View time travel happening: in 2012, the camera car must have been able to drive along the full length of the road, but for the newer photos the Buses Only restriction had been put in place. Because there are no newer photos for that short section, Google reverts to the old ones.

🙂

What TJ says.

Drive to the conditions, educate yourself on signage, and suck this up!

but the copper will have a laugh. Same as when they ask you if you know of what the speed limit is its not time to plead ignorance.

I don't know, I've just spent an hour doing Community Speedwatch on our street. The 'driver biased' thinking that even the Police assigned to traffic tasks express is somewhat staggering.

One of them said "perhaps there aren't enough signs". There are 20mph roundels on both sides of the road at the point we were checking speed. There is a borough-wide 20mph limit and 20mph painted on the road wherever you go from a 30mph TFL road to a 20mph borough road.

Despite there being c6 People standing on the pavements wearing hiviz jackets we still clocked a driver at 40mph.

More than one of them made comments about "some of the cyclists doing quite a speed" (it's a busy cycle route). The fastest I managed to record was 21mph. They heard about a cyclist/motorist incident on a nearby road "probably cyclist jumping red light". Actually knowing the junction almost certainly a left hook or undertaking car using bus lane.

One of them said "perhaps there aren't enough signs". There are 20mph roundels on both sides of the road at the point we were checking speed. There is a borough-wide 20mph limit and 20mph painted on the road wherever you go from a 30mph TFL road to a 20mph borough road.

Despite there being c6 People standing on the pavements wearing hiviz jackets we still clocked a driver at 40mph.

Was it raining and dark? That makes it extenuating.

They heard about a cyclist/motorist incident on a nearby road "probably cyclist jumping red light". Actually knowing the junction almost certainly a left hook or undertaking car using bus lane.

Apparently, there have been two cyclist deaths in London in the last year or so where jumping a red light was the cause. In both cases it was the driver of the motorised vehicle which jumped the red light.

Always worth appealing in my book.

I got a parking fine once for being parked with my permit displayed outside my own house where I had lived and parked for years. I appealed obviously, with a really over the top angry letter, pointing out that "maybe when posting the letter to an address in X road, for a parking offence in X road you should check whether that person is a resident and has a permit etc etc". Anyway, turns out that where I had been parking wasn't for residents and I was bang to rights, and had written an angry letter demanding that they were stupid like a complete penis. They still dropped the charge by 75%

Was it raining and dark? That makes it extenuating.

Bright and dry here at the moment. Was getting windy last night but the storm has either missed us or is waiting for me to go out for a ride.

Apparently, there have been two cyclist deaths in London in the last year or so where jumping a red light was the cause. In both cases it was the driver of the motorised vehicle which jumped the red light.

@beztweets has looked into this. I don't think anyone has managed to find any collisions (or certainly cyclist deaths) where a cyclist jumping a red light was the cause. The reality is that while motorists jump red lights as they change to red (or some seconds after), at speed, cyclists tend to jump red lights early, before they change, to get a head start having clearly checked the junction is clear.

I know most here are driving gods, with fully intact greenhouses, but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances.

It was dark, raining and I was lost is an ok* rebuttal to any aforementioned driving gods who are having a go at you, it's not a valid legal defence**.

As for extenuating circumstances, I'm not sure that a well known daily event mixed with a very common event are really much of a mitigation. "Sorry, I made a mistake, fortunately no one was hurt, I'll pay my fine" sounds a reasonable response to this.

*well it's a bit of a lame rebuttal tbh
**or atleast it damn well shouldn't be

Central Croydon is a nightmare with regards to this, they have pale blue signs with pictures of trams, buses, bicycles, and the word "taxi" on them, in various combinations. And just to properly confuse you some of the pale blue signs with pictures of trams on them only apply certain times. So you have to work out what the picture on the sign says and what time/day it is, whilst driving with someone up your arse and trying to figure out what turning to take.

Sorry, I made a mistake,

How did you manage to get that phrase through the STW filter?

Sorry, I made a mistake, fortunately no one was hurt, I'll pay my fine" sounds a reasonable response to this.

Yup and £30 seems a fair proportionate penalty for that.

<sarcasm> It's almost like they want you to pay attention and be careful when piloting 1.5tonnes or more of metal box. The cheek of it !</sarcasm>

Although many urban planners are now starting consider "signage" to be a distraction.

The bus lane in question seems oddly situated without any obvious reason, it is just the continuation of a semi residential/business street and looks to have access off the bus lane section. Maybe it should have a narrowing of the road, a stop line and signs at low level bollards.

Good street design should come first, and then enforcement if problems still persist.

1) That's not a bus lane. 💡

2) WTF is wrong with having a traditional no entry sign with exceptions? 😕

WTF is wrong with having a traditional no entry sign with exceptions?

Let's make Bus Lanes great again.

It's because it's also cycle lane.

It's because it's also cycle lane.

Hence why you'd use exceptions. Would be much clearer.

I bet it wouldn't. People who pay not attention wouldn't notice it because it was a red circle with a bus on it.