[Closed] Bus driver jailed for using his vehicle as a weapon

errm, your link is to the news?

proper road rage incident, though 🙁

bloomin heck!?!!?

Jeebus! 17 months seems hardly enough.

Interesting to watch the cyclist too though. You can see him veering out across the lane - away from the kerb - as the bus starts pulling out to overtake.
Moral: never play chicken with a bus.

That is horrific. Thank goodness for CCTV (and I rarely say that). Mind you, I'm not sure what the car driver is doing at the end when s/he mounts the pavement and looks to be about to run over the cyclist!

ou can see him veering out across the lane - away from the kerb - as the bus starts pulling out to overtake.

i think he is moving into the right hand lane to take the right turn, maybe not though.

Still looks scary scary stuff

I don't know what the fuss is about - he indicated.

😯

turin - Member

i think he is moving into the right hand lane to take the right turn, maybe not though.

Mind you, I'm not sure what the car driver is doing at the end when s/he mounts the pavement and looks to be about to run over the cyclist!

I think the driver hasn't mounted the curb, but has driven into the bus park area to check on the cyclist.

Like I needed a(nother) reason not to go to Bristol.

That is horrific.

Sentencing Hill Judge Mark Horton said the consequence "was not an accident".

You'd never guess he drove buses from his physique.
[url] http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Road-rage-bus-driver-hit-cyclist-Bristol/story-14332449-detail/story.html [/url]

I think the cyclist was using a flashing rear light...

On what possible grounds was the bus drivers defence?

think the cyclist is holding middle of left lane in preparation to move to right turn lane with bus already tailgating (but could be foreshortened) bus accelerates to beat cyclist to right lane - cyclist moves across anyhow - no words to describe what happens next - big up for the peugeot driver stopping straight away to help - same for pedestrian

edit article posted by ian munro says that they had an argument at earlier roundabout

Sounds like the cyclist took umbridge at the bus driver's previous moves, propped his bike up against the bus to have a rant at him then moments later this happened. In no way can anyone condone the bus driver's actions but you have got to remember when having arguments with people in a position to squash you if you wind them up too much that one day one may do just that. The law being on your side and being in the right is no comfort when you are dead.

Gerald Creed, managing director of Bugler Coaches said:
"We can assure all passengers that this was an isolated incident by a driver that badly let down our company.

it isnt the passengers that should be worried!!!

Lucky to be alive.

they had an argument at earlier roundabout

And I suspect the cyclist then made a right nuisance of himself before the event. Not clever at all. Not that this is in any way condoning what the bus driver did, because it isn't, but moreover I think people should really think about their actions when riding/driving/walking. Getting angry and having an argument doesn't help anyone. Just ignore it and ride/walk/drive on, and ride/walk/drive on normally. Don't be an abbreviated Richard.

The drivers "defense" was "it was a moment of madness". Horrffic accident but people in cars/buses very rarely seem to think about the possible consequences of roadrage, and thats not just cars vs cyclists but cars vs cars, buses vs cars etc....It's just cyclists are the most vunerable.

What do you need to do to get done for attempted murder?

Coyote - Member
What do you need to do to get done for attempted murder?

The intent to kill.

It's not the same as having disregard for life

17 months is a joke. That's attempted murder in my book.
I hope that the drivers life is ruined sufficiently that he has plenty of time to reflect on the reasons why.

Wierdly I'm going to hold this up as a case for justifying an increase in bus driver's pay! We pay wedges to those involved in finance but a bus driver in charge of a massive death machine and having to deal with agressive public both in their bus and outside whilst needing to stay calm are not paid massive incomes. Pay a bit more and you'd have a greater field of applicants and might avoid employing lads like this that couldn't avoid rising to the bait.

Just ignore it and ride/walk/drive on, and ride/walk/drive on normally. Don't be an abbreviated Richard.

One question though is if he had killed him would he have been charged with manslaughter?

I rode past about 5/10mins after that (when the ambulance crew were attending). I couldnt work out how the guy had ended up where he had as his bike was still stuck unter the bus. i guess the video answers all of my questions...

Isn't it reasonable to assume that assaulting someone with a 20 ton vehicle could result in death very easily? How is that different to stabbing someone?

17 months sounds reasonable to me.

Tell you want tho - If I had been the cyclist and had been in an altercation with a bus driver for sure I would not have been there immediately after - I would have been somewhere else altogether not where the driver would have any opportunity of swiping me like that

nice spot by the rider at the bottom of the frame.

Attempted murder does not require intent to kill. If you are sufficiently reckless to the outcome of your act that can be enough, according to the law. The exact term is 'wicked recklessness', and the definition is: 1. intent to do bodily harm
2. which can foreseeably lead to death
3. and shows utter indifference as to whether the victim lives or dies...

Nailed on for 1 and 2, and a pretty close call for 3, I'd have said.

Having said that, I wouldn't want to risk him not being convicted at all.

Looking at the first 2 -3 seconds the traffic pulls away , but the bus ( and hard to see cyclist ) are staionary . Maybe the cyclist is doing a trackstand ? or deliberatly blocking the lane . The queue of staionary traffic behind the bus supports this .
Angry cyclist pulls away , as does bus. He then trys a block manoevere , and bus driver goes postal and sideswipes the cyclist .
IMO
Bus driver is a bum hole tho

I had to watch that about 10 times...I can't believe how the driver tried to physically drive over him. I though perhaps he was trying to clip his back wheel...but that would have been even worse as he would have then fallen off right in front of the bus.

Agree with CFH.

Cyclist's road position looks daft even without a prior altercation.

Sadly one ex bus driver lets the side down for all the proffesional drivers out there,lets also hope he looses his licence and has to walk or ride a bike.

One question though is if he had killed him would he have been charged with manslaughter?

no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter_in_English_law#Motor_manslaughter

whatever the cyclist had done there is no justification for that. scary really.

dangerous bus drivers have in part attributed to my re-routing my commute.

Told you ... many zombies around nowadays.

Stay safe ... Don't forget your Benelli M4 while out.

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So they go on strike, demand higher pay ... then try to run down a cyclist.

The Bus Driver deserved jail for that, as he could have quite easily have killed that guy..

However.. I feel this video should stand as a warning to all those ****wit cycle commuters who cannot resist picking fights at every oportunity.
He'd already wound the bus driver up by leaning his bike up against the front of the bus and having a row, it then looks like he is deliberately riding right in the middle of the road to hold the bus up.

Moral of this story - the Bus driver was a C**t, but the cyclist didn't help himself... life is too short for pointless rows, and he was very lucky to be alive.

Moral of this story - the Bus driver was a C**t, but the cyclist didn't help himself... life is too short for pointless rows, and he was very lucky to be alive.

You should search Youtube for 'fatal accidents' where a lorry ran over a cyclist / pedestrian ... the 10 tonnes lorry simply flatten the head of the person.

^^^yep, absolutly, which is a horrific end for anyone.. and I understand that most of these incidents are totally down to the vehicle driver not looking...
However, if there is anything cyclists can do to help avoid this (like not winding up halfwit drivers, and making them see red) then it has to be worth it..

Wicked recklessness is Scottish law in Bristol it would only be attempt murder if he could be shown to have intended to kill .

I'm not really sure it's right to pass any blame on to the cyclist without more information about what happened before .

Does look like the cyclist was riding in front of the bus to deliberately block it or slow it down. Pretty silly but to be honest I have done the same.

Not for a second condoning the drivers actions though. 17months seem reasonable to me.

I'm not really sure it's right to pass any blame on to the cyclist without more information about what happened before .

I'm [b]entirely[/b] sure it's not right to pass any blame on the cyclist. FFS, when does it become justifiable to assault someone? I'm pretty certain that nothing mentioned thus far falls into that category. Getting into an argument with someone doesn't frequently lead to being run over by a bus, does it? Why should people not be able to voice their displeasure without expectation of assault?

I would've got up and kicked his head in with my good leg!

(In case anyone thinks I'm completely serious)
[img] [/img]

No one is saying the bus driver was justified, just that the cyclist appeared to take active steps to wind him up, for which there was no need.

No one is saying the bus driver was justified, just that the cyclist appeared to take active steps to wind him up, for which there was no need.

^^This^^

^^That^^

You should search Youtube for 'fatal accidents'

Nope, you don't. Really

[i]No one is saying the bus driver was justified, just that the cyclist appeared to take active steps to wind him up, for which there was no need.[/i]

Yep, many bus drivers are complete psychopaths who think nothing of running defenceless people over with their vehicle...

defenceles

Really? He could have not bothered having the argument in the first place. He could have just ignored what had happened and ridden on. He could have stepped off his bike, away from the road. He could have not wound the bus driver up in the first place, basically.

Both, and others besides, would have been a defence.

As before,

No one is saying the bus driver was justified, just that the cyclist appeared to take active steps to wind him up, for which there was no need.

So what? I believe it is acceptable to wind people up, if that's the terminology being used. I'm certain flashie, cynical and the druid feel the same 😉 If we're speculating, I'd guess that the cyclist was reacting to previous dangerous driving by the bus. I think it's unfair to place any responsibility for the assault on the cyclist because what happened was such a massive escalation in violence [b]purely[/b] on the part of the bus driver. I'm emphatically not saying that arguing with people is a good idea, just trying to distance the previous poor behaviour from the assault, is all.

I would've got up and kicked his head in with my good leg!

what happened was such a massive escalation in violence purely on the part of the bus driver

Your proof is?

No one is saying tht the bus driver is not to blame for his actions. He is. People are saying that the cyclist could have, and perhaps should have, avoided the unnecessary confrontation which led to the impact.

He seemed to get very close to the bus for no reason I could see whatsoever.

No one is saying that he is responsible in law, it just looks that he could have avoided the whole thing by dealing with it better.

I don't see any signs of conflict from the video only only someone making there way across lanes of traffic.

Wicked recklessness is Scottish law in Bristol it would only be attempt murder if he could be shown to have intended to kill .

I'm not quite sure how you ever prove intent to kill. If you shoot someone in the body can you just have intent to harm? Similarly trying to drive over someone with a bus can you have intent to only harm?

He seemed to get very close to the bus for no reason I could see whatsoever.

Thing is the footage doe not show what happened to piss the cyclist off. Odds on the driver had previously cut him up. In my experience most, but not all, bus drivers are complete and utter ****s where cyclists are concerned.

17 months seems fair? Will he serve the full 17 months? I doubt it.

[i]That would have done nothing to inflame the situation, would it?[/i]

Is davidjones15 one of those bots we were talking about earlier?

Your proof is?

Well they haven't charged the cyclist with assault, have they? If he did assault the bus driver then I would agree that he's escalated the situation. For me though, verbals and arm waving will forever be in an entirely different sphere to violence. Anyone moving a situation from one to the other should take full responsibility for that.

the cyclist could have, and perhaps should have, avoided the unnecessary confrontation which led to the impact.

Nope, for me that's exactly like apportioning blame to the victim of domestic violence because they argued with their partner.

Coyote - Member

Thing is the footage doe not show what happened to piss the cyclist off. Odds on the driver had previously cut him up. In my experience most, but not all, bus drivers are complete and utter ****s where cyclists are concerned.

Coyote - Member
Thing is the footage doe not show what happened to piss the cyclist off

I don't see how that's relevant really. And I bet he never does it again.

Put another way;

Thing is the footage does not show what happened to piss the [s]cyclist[/s] bus driver off. Odds on the [s]driver[/s]cyclist had previously cut him up. In my experience most, but not all, [s]bus drivers[/s] cyclists are complete and utter ****s where [s]cyclists[/s] bus drivers are concerned.

See? Cyclist are not always perfect, nor are bus drivers. Far from it in this case. But....And it's a big but, both parties could, and should do more to [i]avoid[/i] getting in to these situations in the first place.

I've had similar "words" with a bus driver, but stayed behind the bus following those words. If you don't let them know when they cut you up how will thay learn that cyclists don't appreciate having to bunny hop onto the pavement to avoid a collision?

17 months seems fair? Will he serve the full 17 months? I doubt it.

No I'm sure he won't but it is difficult to see how he would get a commercial driving job again so he is likely to end up unemployed for some time. It looks as though he just went mad and did something he immediately regretted. He didn't drive away, he stopped. He admitted guilt at the first opportunity. It's clearly completely his fault but when you are dealing with other humans you shouldn't push them too far.

No winners here

Edit: educator has it

No one has an issue with "words", just no need to inflame a situation.

when you are dealing with other humans you shouldn't push them too far.

When you are dealing with someone you've never met before, how do you know where too far is?

RichPenny - Member
When you are dealing with someone you've never met before, how do you know where too far is?

I think the video explains that the cyclist exceeded the limit...

I doubt that the cyclist was able to see the video before he made his choices .

I don't think you can [i]blame[/i] the cyclist until you have an idea of what preceded it. If the driver is a big enough pyschopath to do what we see on the video, he may well have been driving dangerously aggresively before that. It is easy to say 'don't wind the driver up' but with the adrenaline running from the previous near miss that can be easier said than done. 'Fight or flight' is a physiological reaction to perceived danger.

Yes it might have been better not to argue with the driver, but it would have been better still for the bus driver not to (presumably) start it.

Its perfectly reasonable to remonstrate with someone who puts you at risk - even if it gets them cross. However to put yourself in the vulnerable position the cyclist did afterwards in the bit we saw is daft.

In most occasions that is the correct place to ride in the road - however with an angry bus driver behind you the correct place to be is somewhere else. Don't matter where - just somewhere else. Behind the bus preferably or down a side street.

I doubt that the cyclist was able to see the video before he made his choices .

How would the cyclist have felt if someone had behaved like that to him? Always a good start in these things. Clearly the cyclist wouldn't have done it if he could have forseen the outcome and and as has already been discussed, not having a word with the driver initially would also have been wrong.

TJ is right.

Seriously, when he and I agree, you know it's right.

Not only right but beautifully concise. Where's the lock thread button now? 😀

Sorry chaps - shall I develop the argument further?

Leffeboy, + many! 🙂

TJ, remember what I said about stepping away? 🙂

Totally agree with TJ and the Captain, a big bus behind is more dangerous than a big bus in front.

I saw the cyclist appear to follow the bus changing lane and sitting very close to his nearside, more or less on the white line between lanes. That can't be a good place to be?

Its perfectly reasonable to remonstrate with someone who puts you at risk - even if it gets them cross. However to put yourself in the vulnerable position the cyclist did afterwards in the bit we saw is daft.

I did - then he caught up with me again a couple of miles down the road and I crashed while running away