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I've had a kitchen renovation done recently, for which structural work and 'prefit' was done by a builder and the actual kitchen fitting done by someone else.
Builder's quote specc'd to place pipes for appliances etc- he had the kitchen plan.
When fitter arrives, some pipes are in the wrong place (by about .5m or 1m) and he's charged us an extra 500 quid to correct it.
Am I right to see my arse about paying this? Builder says the kitchen fitter is a mard and the pipes were close enough, should have just connected them. Kitchen fitter says otherwise. I think they should figure it out between them 🤣
we were over a barrel in terms of having the kitchen fitter do the work on the day- we'd have been charged for another full day fitting if they'd had to wait for the pipes to be moved apparently.
They know each other- builder put us onto the kitchen fitter!
They know each other- builder put us onto the kitchen fitter!
They'll be sat in the pub with £250 each later then. Sounds like a cunning scam 😉
You put the pipes in the wrong place, I'll move them and blame you, £500 extra for a few feet of copper pipe and cha-ching!
That sounds down to the builder. If he was spec'd to place the pipes then it's down to him to place them correctly. That said it'll be an effort to get him to admit it. I'd certainly start by refusing to pay that bit of the bill, and maybe settle on paying a portion (maybe cover costs).
and he’s charged us an extra 500 quid to correct it.
500 quid to move a couple of pipes? Nice work if you can get it. Are they behind cabinets?
There's two separate contracts here - you and the builder and you and the kitchen fitter.
You gave the builder a plan of where the services should be and he didn't adhere to that. It's up to him to fix it.
(1m is massive.... that could put the pipe in a different room!)
My kitchen fitter also had an absolute conniption when the hot and cold water pipes to the sink were about 50cm in the wrong place, clearly they all just hate plumbing.
£500 is insane though. However if the pipes were behind walls or boxed in, or under floors, or exiting to the outside in the wrong place, that would make more sense...?
Depends how much of a fight you want to have or if you are happy to just pay it and move on.
If the builder was paid to put the pipes where the plan says, they should be there and not a meter away.
The problem you will find is the builder needs to have been given a chance to fix the issue before you take the 500 off his bill. So the fitter should have told you, you called the builder and the pipes moved. In reality, this would have delayed work and the fitter would have charged you extra anyway.
Sounds like a world of pain and small claims court or serious animosity from the builders if you withhold payment.
Is all the proof available as well, i.e. plans of where the pipes are to be located, lengths, fittings, etc, was the kitchen appliances correct for this layout, is there photographic evidence that the pipes were too short, or in the incorrect area, or is it all now hidden behind the fitted kitchen?
It sucks, but i tend to look at this type of thing as picking your battles, and if you've not caught it at the end when signing off the builders work then it could be painful.
The problem you will find is the builder needs to have been given a chance to fix the issue before you take the 500 off his bill. So the fitter should have told you, you called the builder and the pipes moved. In reality, this would have delayed work and the fitter would have charged you extra anyway.
Nope - absent a specific contractual right to remedy defects (or to require them to be given the opportunity to remedy defects), there's no overarching obligation on an employer to allow the builder to rectify defects before levying a deduction.
Of course, saying that and actually getting it across the line are two different things. If the locations on the kitchen plan for pipe siting were clear, I'd be going back to the builder and saying 'you owe me £500' as a result of your failure to comply with the agreed plan.
Just tell the builder you misread his quote and thought it was £500 cheaper than he's charging. If he complains tell him he's being a 'mard' and £500 less is 'close enough'.
If the builder put the pipes in the wrong place - his fault. But should have been corrected before you paid him.
A few inches you could miss but half a metre? Could put it behind the wrong unit.
But £500 to move them. My kitchen fit was £1800 labour. That was installing units and worktops. Flooring. Rewirng for new lights and moving gas connection for hob to new place
I'd try and negotiate the 500 quid down, and leave it at that.
Everything else is too much of a ball ache.
just water and drainage or gas as well?
I've just been bent over to move our gas meter and reconnect to the tune of £100 per hour, so if its gas I can imagine you might be paying a premium.
If its not gas I'd just do it yourself. with push fit stuff it is ridiculously easy.
And kitchen fitting for 1800 sounds either like an 'up north' price, an old price or small kitchen. Cheapest I have been quoted is 2800...and thats not including the worktops! I will likely be doing it myself
Am I right to see my arse about paying this? Builder says the kitchen fitter is a mard and the pipes were close enough, should have just connected them. Kitchen fitter says otherwise. I think they should figure it out between them 🤣
If there was a drawing and it stated a dimension, close enough would of been a 25mm either way, if its 500mm to 1000mm out, then the builder is a clown.
he had the kitchen plan.
Yeah im feeling that this is the key.
It's on the drawing, and that much difference is either he cant read a map, or he couldnt be arsed to do whats been specced.
Did the builder move them at all?
There was a gas pipe to the hob that had to be extended about 50cm and the sink waste pipe had to be moved. If I'd asked someone to do the work in an isolated situation I would have though 500 quid was a lot for what needed to be done, but when gas is involved all bets are off!
There were no units fitted so everything was accessible- no faffing under floor or routing walls etc.
I suppose I'd better have a good look at the plan supplied to the builder and see if it was adequate.
It's a proper Pita, this renovation lark. And expensive too.
As a kitchen fitter myself, I’d say the builder is at fault but the kitchen fitter has had you over massively. A call out for my gas man for that would be £60-£80 and I’d have moved the waste pipe for gratis or a token £25 unless lots of materials involved. I’d have thought £150 tops.
Blazin-saddles took the words off the tips of my fingers. Although a long cooker hose is only about £15.
Depends who's fault it is I guess. If the builder has gone against the plans then he should be making good his mistake without further cost. If the plans are vague or misleading then that's on you or whoever drew them up.
If one is saying it's fine and the other is disagreeing, get them both in the same room and tell them to work it out. I know Jon was joking above, but if they're mates this would be ringing alarm bells for me, it's dodgyAF.