[Closed] Budget Day tomorrow

Sop to the middle classes and OAPs to keep then on board and shaft the poor and young as they don't vote.

I bet Gideon is fapping himself stupid at the thought of the evil he can unleash.

Oh no wait, he's just finished

[img] [/img]

@Harry you could well be onto something, although rumours where it was to be middle class professionals who would take the hit in pension reforms.

As George is so keen on the EU perhaps he should announce he's aligning our VAT rates and regime wth Europe ?

middle class professional

I think I'm one of them.

poor and young as they don't vote.

If you can't be bothered to vote it's entirely your own fault if you get shafted. This is less of a pandering to the middle classes, more the fact that ultimately the vast majority simply don't care.

Means test the state pension, make other pensioner benefits taxable, increase taxes on those who can afford to pay them, and crack down on tax avoidance schemes whether they're used by big business or Joe Public (yes, that includes ISAs). I'd also link a new seller's stamp duty to the percentage increase in house prices since purchase, so those who made millions simply from the location of their house pay their fair share.

I didn't realise just how many cuts have affected the young over the last 5 years:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/15/george-osborne-budget-2016-millennials-generation-y-student-debt-housing

I'm only interested wot goes on beer n fags.

Sniff

I'm filling up with diesel in the morning cos you can guarantee it'll be up by 10p a litre or more by 18.01 hrs tomorrow at the pumps. (even though any duty increase should only apply to stocks taken from refineries after whatever time our Knob of a chancellor dictates, & not what's in the storage tanks of your local fuel station at that time)

Middle class, middle aged, 2 diesel cars, 2 kids, 4 pensions.

I'm screwed.

Middle class, middle aged, 2 diesel cars, 2 kids, 4 pensions.
I'm screwed.

You're kidding, right? You'll be fine. It's disabled folk getting their benefits cut again that will be screwed!!

+1 DrJ,It will be another tory budget.Giving to the rich and taking from the poor.

Don't drink, don't smoke, aren't eligible for any benefits aside from basic child benefit and live in Wales so I suspect the pain will be felt elsewhere, probably the poor and sick to help pay for tax cuts for those poor lambs in the 50% bracket struggling to feed themselves (in Fortnum's).

Close to 1 in 10 of the working age population receive some form of Disability Benefit. Think abou that. People's perception of disabiabled doesn't tally with disability benefit. Having to cut welfare spending is the legacy of the last Labour Government and one kf the key policies which people voted for.

@essel fuel duty wikl go up I am sure but not by 10p a litre, 2 ?

@flap the point is most people believe someone else is more able fo pay extra taxes and not them

Looks like pensions won't change much now, and what we have is fair though perhaps scrap the 25% tax free withdrawal? Perhaps that encourages people to put money in though? ISAs encourage saving too. I suppose the emphasis now is to make it attractive for people to save for the future and that eventually pensions will be means tested so only the poorest will get a decent amount - not fair perhaps but what is fair?

eventually pensions will be means tested so only the poorest will get a decent amount

Hmmm, should I spend all my money on bikes and holidays or stay home and save up so the state don't have to pay me a means tested pension?

Hmmm, should I spend all my money on bikes and holidays or stay home and save up so the state don't have to pay me a means tested pension?

Anyone under 45 will probably find the threshold of pension entitlement retreating faster than they age anyway, so I shouldn't worry.

It'll all be fine.

Unless you need a new wheelchair

In which case, it won't

You don't need a new wheelchair, do you?

Hmmm, should I spend all my money on bikes and holidays or stay home and save up so the state don't have to pay me a means tested pension?

Well we don't know what's going to happen, safest way to deal with things is not to keep your eggs in one thing. State pension ain't great even now, maybe it'll be the poor house for poor oldies one day? Those with better provisions won't have to work for quite so long that's for sure.

Live fast die young....

Those with better provisions won't have to work for quite so long that's for sure.

True. What I need is a few buy to lets to bring in an income whilst appreciating in value.

Or if I can't stretch to that and my employer doesn't pay me enough to live so I receive in work benefits....maybe I could save some of my non existent excess cash and get a top up on my savings from the state. That would be a generous scheme.

Is it too late to tax all the people who bought council houses for £15k and sold them for £200k 20 years later?

I'd want to see him present two budgets, one for staying in the EU and one for leaving.

This way both can be scrutinised fully.

And since we are currently borrowing just to pay the interest on our debts, any budget that doesn't accept this is 'smoke&mirrors'.

Would like to see a budget where unproductive areas of the U.K. economy (e.g. Buy to Let, 2nd homes) are hammered hard, yet productive areas (e.g. Businesses that create jobs and export things) are supported.

Also to get the housing market moving again, how about abolishing stamp duty entirely (unless it's BTL or second home) but instead create a new 'sellers tax', where the gain in house value (purchased value v sold value) gets taxed a certain percentage?

Is it too late to tax all the people who bought council houses for £15k and sold them for £200k 20 years later?

In fairness making all house sales subject to Capital Gains Tax wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

Having to cut welfare spending is the legacy of the last Labour Government and one kf the key policies which people voted for.

Total nonsense, there is no 'have to' about it at all.

It's a political choice. There is no fiscal imperative to reduce spending, our deficit has never been cheaper to fund.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/low-paid-workers-to-get-speedboat-tax-relief-20160315107141 ]Or if I can't stretch to that and my employer doesn't pay me enough to live so I receive in work benefits....maybe I could save some of my non existent excess cash and get a top up on my savings from the state. That would be a generous scheme.[/url]

The Tory party are now officially beyond parody

In fairness making all house sales subject to Capital Gains Tax wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

In fairness making all house sales subject to Capital Gains Tax wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

Why?

Taking capital would be a good way of redistributing wealth in the UK.

Bit more sense than taxing the buyers though double taxation would be fairly harsh

Oh yeah you'd really have to remove stamp duty on purchase too.

Why?

Taking capital would be a good way of redistributing wealth in the UK.

Rightly or wrongly we now treat housing as a type of investment but is doesn't attract the same rules as any other investment. This would level the playing field as well as acting as brake on house prices where there has been excessive house price inflation.

Two things on the horizon for small employers next year that, as yet most haven't fully appreciated or factored in are the changes in dividend taxation and the compulsory enrollment for employees into the latest of HM government's pension [s]fiascos[/s].

I can see there suddenly being a huge reluctance to employ and a few jobs go missing too, either through reduction of employees or outright business closure. We've already had one subcontractor decide that enough is enough in 2016, having traded for about 30 years.

This would level the playing field as well as acting as brake on house prices where there has been excessive house price inflation.

jambalaya - Member
People's perception of disabiabled doesn't tally with disability benefit.

It's the perception that's wrong.
Partly anyway

Your perception is that these cuts will clamp down on the lead swingers whilst everyone else stands by and applauds.

Mine is that ordinary people the elderly and those lacking mobility become increasingly more isolated.
They don't get to go out, to socialise, to maintain relationships and community ties.

I could give you a hundred reasons why this is a disgrace, but that won't make you feel like you've taught someone a lesson, will it?

Your emotionless ideology makes people suffer.

Not sure many people with higher value properties would want to move much with CGT to pay. Stamp duty is bad enough.

Not sure many people with higher value properties would want to move much with CGT to pay

You could just tax wealth on an annual basic, eg at some low level like 0.2% of wealth is taxed per annum.

I guess you'd use some standard valuation like council tax bands and then actually update them properly every 10 years or so eg my house is worth something like 10x it's band value.

It's a political choice. There is no fiscal imperative to reduce spending, our deficit has never been cheaper to fund

It's the political choice we made as a country in 2010 and again in 2015

@footflaps they have wealth taxes in France and even in Switzerland, they don't raise that much and in France they have hit farmers and small wine producers particularly badly.

I could give you a hundred reasons why this is a disgrace, but that won't make you feel like you've taught someone a lesson, will it?

I'm pretty sure the model to which Tories work can't take non-financial values into account. You know...fairness, dignity and other trivial things like those. When applied to the less well-off and less able, they are mere inconveniences not to be taken into account if lessons are to be taught.

Looking forward to my £6.25 a month of extra take-home pay from next month - it'll go some way towards the extra £15 a month council tax I've just had the bill for - yay me!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for an energy drink tax along with cakes, biscuits, takeaways and pies, let the bloody fatties pay to get us out of this mess.

It's the political choice we made as a country in 2010 and again in 2015

You are right, it's a choice rather than an imperative; people chose to shaft the less well off hoping that they would be the ones that benefited from the cuts.

As to why they thought this was a good thing, I have absolutely no idea - a bit like that woman on Question Time who was distraught to find that the cuts she voted for actually affected her.

However, as a long term fiscal plan, stoking house prices whilst shafting the poor, isn't going to build a stronger Britain or a very pleasant society to live in.

Not sure many people with higher value properties would want to move much with CGT to pay. Stamp duty is bad enough.

+1

And how would you calculate it?

If I bought a house for £200k, did £50k of work and sold it for £400k, under the current system I pay stamp duty on the 3400k and everyone's happy.

Under a new system presumably I's pay CGT on £150k? But then what If I've had the house 20 years and redecorated several times, do I keep all the receipts for 20 years to offset against CGT? What if I'm not that organised? Does every homeowner then have to do an annual tax return, estimate the rise in property value, offset that years DIY bills, and stump up the cash like a business would on it's assets/investments?

The only people it would catch are those that buy houses, live in them whilst they do them up then move on ASAP.

Beer n fagz n petrol.

It's all anyone wants to know about.

Sniff

Slightly distracted by Theresa May's Tits.

Under a new system presumably I's pay CGT on £150k?

But then what If I've had the house 20 years and redecorated several times, do I keep all the receipts for 20 years to offset against CGT?

Yes

What if I'm not that organised?

Well you wouldn't get any tax relief.

Does every homeowner then have to do an annual tax return, estimate the rise in property value, offset that years DIY bills, and stump up the cash like a business would on it's assets/investments?

A tax return would only be needed when the house was sold, i.e. the gain was realised just like every other capital gain. Basically exactly the same rules that apply to second/third/fourth properties.

I thought this budget seemed OK but after Corbyn said 'failed' I started to doubt it and then by the 10th time he said failed I was convinced it wasn't...

A tax return would only be needed when the house was sold

So don't move then. Better to just tax on death - is there a tax for that?

Theres going to be a new tea urn in the relocated offices of the Northern Powerhouse, in Bracknall.

slightly distracted by Teresa May's tits

Pukes.

tea urn

Just milk , ta!

[img] [/img]

slightly distracted by Teresa May's tits

Pukes.

Misread this and wondered how low cut her blouse really was.

What happens when interest rates go up to 2, 5 or say 8%

That isn't going to happen. We are going Japanese, I'm afraid, except our housing bubble hasn't popped as yet.

It's going to be QE to infinity and beyond.

Well you wouldn't get any tax relief.

Think how thick the average person is, now remember that half of them are worse than that. It'd be a nightmare! and we'd be back here soon enough saying how regressive it was because it favored those who could afford home improvements and accountants to offset those costs.

I'm not against the idea entirely, I think Stamp Duty puts an incentive on not moving which is an odd thing to discourage and CGT would solve that in a way. But using it as a method to control house prices seems a bit blunt, and might backfire, people trying to sell their houses for more to offset it, and buyers being prepared to pay more because they no longer have to pay Stamp Duty?

The fundamental issue is under-supply of housing. If there were enough houses we wouldn't have price inflation, and we wouldn't have people housesharing into their 30's as the norm, and they wouldn't be such a good investment.

The fundamental issue is under-supply of housing.

I agree, but the really fundamental issue is population density, thanks to years of mass immigration.

[quote=perchypanther said]slightly distracted by Teresa May's tits
Pukes.

Misread this and wondered how low cut her blouse really was.

Lolz.

and more pu[b]k[/b]es

I'm not against the idea entirely, I think Stamp Duty puts an incentive on not moving which is an odd thing to discourage and CGT would solve that in a way.

no it wouldn't - both are an incentive not to move.

If I sell my main house I should be able to move to a similar house in the same area without financial loss, which is what both cause.

If you sold your bike on the classifieds for £1500 you would expect to be able to buy a replacement bike 2nd hand for £1500, but with SD (GCT not applicable as bikes depreciate) you wouldn't as you would have to stump up a load more to pay the tax.

Hence you wouldn't sell your bike unless desperate, or if you were moving up north where bikes where cheaper and you could get one from the bloke in the pub for £1200 which would give you money to pay the tax.

From a quick google it looks like Teresa May's tits have suffered from inflation over the years...

TurnerGuy - Member

From a quick google it looks like Teresa May's tits have suffered from inflation over the years...

I rather look at Teresa May than the walrus Diane Abbott tbh coz the latter is minging in street lingo innit! 😆

edit: did not watch the budget speech btw so did not see either the above but will catch up later during news hour.

Think how thick the average person is, now remember that half of them are worse than that. It'd be a nightmare! and we'd be back here soon enough saying how regressive it was because it favored those who could afford home improvements and accountants to offset those costs.

Oh it's far from perfect but it's not as regressive as it might first appear. Say someone spent £50k on house improvements just before selling the house. That would have one of three impact on the price of the house, assuming it was to be sold. Increase by more than £50k, increase by exactly £50k increase by less than £50k. In case one the spending would result in more CGT going into the UK coffers than if the money hadn't been spent. In case two it would result in the same CGT as if the money weren't spent. In case three the person has actually lost money so the only reason they would pay less CGT is because they have less rather than it bieing some sort of avoidance.

It would also allow the country to redistribute wealth across the generations as those who have benefited from the huge house price inflation would contribute some of that money back.

or just use death tax.

I rather look at Teresa May then the walrus Diane Abbott tbh,

I think Teresa May, even with inflated tits, is better to look at than either Diane Abbot or Theresa May...

As someone on here said, one TM is a soft porn star, and the other is pure filth...

WT actual F?

I dropped in to read some financial chat only to find things have taken a quite unlikely turn.

Err - so how does this new CGT work then?

Is it only on 2nd homes/investment properties or does everyone have to pay now?

We paid 50k for our house 18 years ago, its now worth £180k. I may have to start leaving old cars on the drive, let the grass grow and have a half-wild mongrel dog on a chain to bring the value down!

Northwind - Member
WT actual F?

TurnerGuy would with TM? 😛

Err - so how does this new CGT work then?

[img] [/img]

Jesus, P.S. don't google Theresa May's Tits, seems there's more than one Theresa May with a large web following...

NSFW 🙁

or any other time.

Err - so how does this new CGT work then?

It was a purely hypothetical discussion.

Devolution for the West Country! The return of Avon

[i]“Some may not understand the rules but it’s clear others are using them as a way to minimise their tax bills. You have situations where someone working in a public body pays thousands of pounds less in tax than someone doing exactly the same job alongside them who’s taxed as an employee. [/i]

Yes, but it is the employer who is creating the issue, not the contractor/employee - what are you going to do George, offer them employment (and employee benefits as well) instead?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/12192265/Budget-George-Osborne-to-launch-crackdown-on-income-tax-loophole.html

Are they only concerned with this tax dodge when used within the public service framework? That is how it is being presented, its not tax avoidance they are concerned with, just tax avoidance by the wrong types.

It's the same tax dodge they were trying to bludgeon to death with IR35, but with that they weren't target the main exploiters.

When contracting at Fidelity a secretary mistakenly copied to everyone (or a lot of people) a mail to an agent coordinating the swapping of two permie and two contractors, which I think happened regularly.

Beer
Fagz
Petrol

Wotz da outcome? 🙄

So they just voted to cut disability payments by £30 a week and then a week later are happy to raise the 40% tax threshold so that those earning twice the national average get a tax cut....

They're obviously not banking on the Disabled vote.

[I]They're obviously not banking on the Disabled vote. [/I]

A lot of votes...

Apparently 1 in 10 of the working population is disabled, seems an awful lot?

http://www.dlf.org.uk/content/key-facts

Do we need to tighten this definition?!

Apparently 1 in 10 of the working population is disabled, seems an awful lot?

Most of the estate agents around here hbe disability badges.