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Openreach (funded by some pointless government grants) have rolled out fibre broadband to the sticks where my parents live. They're about a mile from the DSLAM and BT reckon they should achieve about 50 Mbps based on their line test. They normally get about 2.5 Mbps through ADSL.
Somewhat sceptical but suggested they go ahead, only to discover that the router synced at 3. BT called. Someone sent out (Openreach or BT themselves, I dunno).
Instead of asking the neighbours what speed they get (3 also) or checking the line where it comes down the pole, he decided to explore the point in the loft where it enters the house. 5 minutes later there's a loud crash and BT "engineer" (and I use the word in its most sarcastic sense) emerges unexpectedly out of a new man-shaped loft hatch in the bedroom, complete with half the ceiling and a metric crap-load of bat shit.
"Don't worry," says my dad, "This is why you have insurance".
"Ah", says the bloke, "I'm not actually allowed to go into lofts. Can I get my mate around to fix your ceiling?"
*rests head in hands*
I've no doubt we'll decline his kind offer and get BT to send their own decorators in but may give him the chance to 'fess up to his boss himself first.
And the broadband is still knackered.
Can I get my mate around to fix your ceiling?
Is his mate insured to go up in the loft? what if he makes a bigger hole?
Get another mate around to fix the bigger hole?
Ah, you see, what you need to is employ a series if incrementally smaller mates to do the work, therefore reducing the risk of increasing the unplanned loft hatch.
Sounds like a great one to spread around twitter if BT are awkward at all though!
They could get in even more shit if they've disturbed the bats, which sounds inevitable. No wonder he wants his mate to fix it.
I am in 2 minds on this one.
If he had pulled the "sorry mate, 'elf and safety says I cant go in the loft", we would have slagged him off and called him a jobsworth. He was trying to solve the problem and is now offering to get the ceiling fixed at his own expense so save the grief he will get from work.
He has good intentions but is still a clumsy bastard 😐
hooli +1
is now offering to get the ceiling fixed at his own expense [s]so save the grief he will get from work[/s] [b]to avoid a P45.[/b]
FTFY.
I would let him get it fixed. I reckon that's a sacking offence otherwise, and it sounds like he was going above and beyond.
... Certainly above, anyway 😉
Ah, you see, what you need to is employ a series if incrementally smaller mates to do the work
😆
Ah, you see, what you need to is employ a series if incrementally smaller mates to do the work, therefore reducing the risk of increasing the unplanned loft hatch.
Somebody's been reading The Cat in the Hat Comes Back...
Well its not bts fault the engineer decided to try and 'do a favour' and went into your unboarded or otherwise unsafe loft.
(Edit: the engineer knows full well to not go into an unsafe, unboarded loft.. plus the consequences)
Do the right thing and go through bts damage claims process.. the engineer will have to explain his risk assessment or lack thereof.
..coz you dont want the same thing to happen with a serious accident as a consequence, do you?
Of all the Openreach stories I hear daily (work for a telco), this is the best one for a long time. Magnifico!
I doubt going into a loft in the interest of customer service is a sacking offence. Trying to cover it up probably would be.
I doubt going into a loft in the interest of customer service is a sacking offence. Trying to cover it up probably would be.
I suspect it will be gross misconduct and instant dismissal
He knows he shouldn't have done it. Best intentions or not he's probably soon to be an ex employee
I would let BT sort it. If you go the mates way, what is to stop him claiming a back injury from your insurance down the line....
I suspect it will be gross misconduct and instant dismissal
Doubt it. Not really grounds for gross misconduct.
As an employee of said company, it could land him in a lot of hot water. If you decide to go via the official route I would let the engineer (sorry, technician 😉 ) know and suggest he reports the incident to his manager before they both find out through the official channels.
There will probably be an investigation, maybe a site visit, a disciplinary and HR will control that, no softly softly 'but he's got kids' approach, its black and white when the hard decisions are made by someone who doesn't personally know the person concerned.
Anyone who works for a large organisation knows that there is a rule and process for everything, all the T's are crossed and i's dotted no matter how impractical that makes it for those on the front line. If the guy has tested the line and there is a fault 15 metres away putting it in the loft, he's being pushed to increase productivity/the customer is complaining, and that five minutes in the loft gets it sorted, you can see why its tempting to just nip in and sort it. I've spent all week crossing my unboarded loft but at work I'm not allowed without using crawling boards.
The chap went into the loft, and fell through the ceiling accidently, was he made aware the loft was un boarded, was there sufficent lighting etc.
But BT make many millions profit so they should be liable to pay for any damage make good, with the chap who fell being offered some retraining.
He wasn't trying to do you a favour, his job was to fix the problem with the broadband and he thought finding the junction to either use a spare pair or remake the joints would fix it. The only other alternative would be book another call to reroute, or reroute a new cable himself.
You owe him nothing but sympathy.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't have tried something similar when I was working for a cable company mind, but it would have been as much for my benefit as yours. This is all based on you not asking him to go up but it doesn't sound like you did.
[as an aside they've never get close to 50mbps if they're a mile from the exchange... prob a fair bit less than 20]
The chap went into the loft, and fell through the ceiling accidently, was he made aware the loft was un boarded, was there sufficent lighting etc.
Ah, the modern world where it's always someone else's fault. My dad is an electrical engineer and would have happily run a new cable for him if he'd asked.
sharkbait - Member
[as an aside they've never get close to 50mbps if they're a mile from the exchange... prob a fair bit less than 20]
he said DSLAM. with FTTC the DSLAM is in the green cab. If your a mile from the Green cab then 50mbps is very very unlikely. But if your a mile from the exchange then the cab would be a lot closer so 50mbps from the cab would be a lot more likely.
The chap went into the loft, and fell through the ceiling accidently, was he made aware the loft was un boarded, was there sufficent lighting etc.
Surely it's his responsibility to check lighting, suitability of loft floor for safe access, etc? It's quite possible that the person who allows him onto the property may not know the actual condition of the loft.
spooky_b329 - Member
engineer (sorry, technician )
I thought they were CSE's? OKA Completely Stupid Employees when I was at BT...
The chap went into the loft, and fell through the ceiling accidently, was he made aware the loft was un boarded, was there sufficent lighting etc.
Ah, the modern world where it's always someone else's fault.
Fault, blame and much much more.
I'd generally go that if the rule is no lift work then no loft work. Explain to the customer and come up with Plan B.
If you did go up and couldn't tell it wasn't boarded (and full of bats) you should not be going in.
Carry on going in spotting all those things then the risk is too high and time for some retraining at the very least.
It's an example of how easily things can go wrong, he could have fallen above the stair or with his back across a bit of furniture and be in a very serious state.
Edit there is very little these days that should actually be considered an accident, it's an incendent that could/should have been avoided.
Did they do the normal if the faults on your property then you pay spiel? We have it a couple of times a year, we get phone and broadband issues sometimes one other times both and every time we get the it looks like the fault is on your property, so will cost you. Every time it turns out to be a few hundred meters down the road, but we still have the intensive fault finding on the property in the hope of finding something tiny that they can charge you for.
The bloke cocked up, he was working for BT or a subsidiary at the time then they should fix it, not his mate. If he had advised you before entering the loft that he wasn't meant to go up there but would anyway then it's different as you would have been aware he wasn't supposed to be up there.
If its any consolation 3mbps is five times faster than our BT connection
I've not met any colleagues that actively go looking to charge the customer, many actively try to avoid it even when it should be chargeable. And they all know that the computer guestimation about the fault location is inaccurate and will do their own tests to determine the fault location. Unfortunately its the service providers trying to cover all the bases by telling customers they will be charged.
When I worked at Sky we had similar policies, regarding accessing a loft.
Initially when I first started you were allowed to access them using crawlboards but had to escalate it to your Team Manager.
Policy then got changed so that you could only access them if they were boarded out and had lighting.
As very few loft spaces followed the updated criteria very few cables ever got ran through loft spaces!
There were similar policies regarding running cables under the edge of carpeting as in it was forbidden, however if it was a tatty old loose fitting carpet then cables would often be laid under the edge, or cables could be laid loosely with just a clip at either end for the 'Customer' to then place under the carpet.
With companies like Sky,BT,Virgin etc a lot of unofficial practice goes on some of it to make the engineers life easier, some to make a better end result for the customer.
Thanks to a jobsworth stand in Manager I had to face a disciplinary for drilling a 5mm hole in a customers windowframe.
Standard procedure was not to drill holes in frames(although this had been changed from a previous policy where it was acceptable).
However I had to run a external phone line and this unofficial option meant there was just 10cm of visible cable internally when going through the frame, the other 'Official'option would mean drilling through the wall about 5ft away then running cable along skirting boards and window frame to connect up(several ft of visible cable).
I gave the customer both options and they plumped for the 'Unofficial'one with the least amount of visible cable.
However a postcheck inspection by said Manager was my undoing, so by trying to do the right thing or preferred thing for the customer(The customers always right?)I ended up facing a disciplinary.
In the context of the BT engineer if it becomes a official complaint the outcome of a disciplinary for accessing the loft would most likely be retraining.
However by covering it up the outcome could be worse.
My experience - when I was with Sky a few years ago I asked if the guy would chase in a second set of cables so I could run a freeview box in the bedroom and slipped him £20, no problem.
Last year (when we moved house) I asked the fitter if he would do the same. He said he couldn't because if he had an accident away from where he was meant to be working he would be in trouble.
But he *DID* give me a huge length of cable + all the connectors and a load of cable clips so I could do it myself.
project - Memberwas he made aware the loft was un boarded, was there sufficent lighting etc.
Ah, he was blind? I didn't realise, that changes things a bit
Look at it this way
Both you and he now understand [u]why[/u] BT have a rule forbidding technicians from going into customers lofts...
Northwind - Member
project - Memberwas he made aware the loft was un boarded, was there sufficent lighting etc.
Ah, he was blind? I didn't realise, that changes things a bit
Having worked with some numpties and been in numpties houses, its always best to check that both workmates and customer are aware of the enviroment around them, as for the comment was he blind, some peeps see but dont alawys understand.
Well, since neither of us are feeling particularly vindictive we've gone for the DIY approach to fixing the ceiling. Be interesting to see how it turns out.