[Closed] British steel- I'm being abit thick here. Please explain.

Unfortunately you can't separate the politics from the conversation. If there were Conservative voters in Port Talbot would the current government let an entire town turn into a sink hole?

Let's see what they do. But if I see them do nothing like they did for Redcar. Like they are doing for the oil & gas industry in Aberdeen. Then **** 'em! The heartless douchebags.

(By the way - I voted Tory at the last election)

Tho they did renationalise the loss making Network Rail last year on the quiet, to make sure all the privatised rail complaints shareholders were happy

It was just reclassication, the "nationalization" took place under Labour but as Brown did not want the debt to be included in the Government Borrowing Requirement, it was done through an artificial structure to keep it off balance sheet, in 2013 the ONS decided to recognize the reality.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/government-powerless-to-intervene-in-non-banking-industry-20151020103119 ]This sums up what the government will do, or not do, perfectly[/url]

The flaw here is for an entire town and community to have not spotted that the ship has sailed and to diversify, not depend on one industry. Just as with the mining industry.

Things could be saved though if you vote Corbyn. Good old socialism will reopen the mines, the steel plants and so on, and everyone in the country will be funding to keep these places open and keep people in jobs, even if they never sell anything they produce. Or maybe he goes further and insists we don't deal with these capitalist outsiders and everything we build in the country is made from our own products. May as well go full communist while he's at it.

😛

Other option is employ them all in building trail centres up the valleys 😀 . Plenty of EU grants it seems for funding this kind of stuff, especially to the Welsh for some reason. Unless we vote to leave.

Why all about Wales ? The Longs Uk section of TATA steel has been up for sale for over a year now. It's took hundreds of job cut as well and will devastate the areas around if closed. Longs makes a wider range of products from the beams used to build, the rails that trains go on to with to the wire that goes in tyres. There is money to be made in steel in this country (oh and Hayange in France which is also part of longs). It just needs to be specialised in the product and give value added service (Tata in house development team invented a product called by-steel bomb proof building sections) .
By like the two mills in Scotland (Clyebridge and Dalzell) the government need to step in and assist in helping responsible companies buy these plants.

At this present time it looks like Graybull will be buying Longs by the end of this month.

They don't need patronizing bollocks likes this,

Can see how it might be viewed as patronizing , but having lived through a quarter of a century of the deprivation caused by what happens when successive governments abandon the people whose votes were either never an option or utterly taken for granted, my view is perhaps slightly skewed.

Is it bollocks? I can assure you it's not. That's definitely what the largest brownfield site in Europe looked like for most of the last 20 odd years. I don't imagine that Port Talbot will look any different for the next 20.

Except for the sea views. Which is nice.

The only hope is that somehow - somebody wants to buy the company.
And that will mean massive restructuring. At the moment the steel workers at Port Talbot are on pretty decent wages; if they are lucky, and a buyer is found - then the wages will be slashed to minimum wage without a doubt.
This will also have a huge impact on the area - less money in the economy win or lose.
The steel plants in Cardiff show the only way they can stay open ... very low pay!

Manufacturing is dying a slow death in the UK. Only when they have achieved their goal of forcing wages to that of 3rd world countries will we be able to compete.

FWIW, a good old chunk of blame lies with Ed Millband's energy tax - it was doomed from the start and destined to cost at least some UK jobs in the face of foreign opposition happily unencumbered by this idealistic nonsense. It may or may not be smoggy in Shanghai, but a few there will be s****ing at the way we have tied ourselves in knots over this.

[s]British Steel[/s] [s]Corus[/s] sorry TATA have not been able to compete in mass steel for many many years. They moved to specialty steels and were aiming to make money in the low volume high price market. Now the high volume markets are falling the rest of the providers are looking to make money so those with the capabilities are looking at this market.
Once you add in lower wage bills, cheaper utilities and a government subsidy its goodbye to the UK industry.

You could say that the UK should put a tariff on Chinese steel but as long as there is a country in the EU free trade area that does not have this tariff manufacturing using said steel could potentially just move there.

I remember case studies when I was at school in the 90's about subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.

The trouble is when you are trying to solve a very local problem in a global system. Closing the plant in Port Talbot has been gossip for maybe a decade now and the reaction to the risk is probably 15 years too late.

I thought there was a bank garuntee schemme for the small account holders or was that a mistake on my part?

subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.

Sony and Panasonic are still in S. Wales and for now the semiconductor plant at Newport (build under Thatcher) is still operating. Other companies make factory equipment, and a fair few few make products that get sent elsewhere to be packaged or for further processing. So don't be fooled into thinking nothing is made anymore. But what you won't see is many names that are recognizable outside the industry.

Thanks for revealing your source binners - it makes sense now! 😉

cornholio98 - Member

I remember case studies when I was at school in the 90's about subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.

Those electronic firms closed too. It seems the Welsh government offer too good to refuse subsidies,that offer short term jobs, that only really benefit companies taking them up.
A recent one is Aston Martin at Barry. No doubt the Welsh government will kit out the factory ... and 5yrs down road it will all be shipped to China or India.

If Port Talbot goes then so will Trostre and the consequences for that part of Wales will be fatal. I can't think of another employer who comes close to the quality and number of jobs that would be lost. DVLA is Swansea employs a few but that is it. Call centres and flippin burgers anyone?

It really galls me when some on this thread just go Oh well shit happens, yes it does but don't go looking for sympathy if and [u]when[/u] it happens to you and your family.

Denis99 - which part of Rogerstone were you in/ who are you? I used to work there!

Cornholio98 - now, you're being a little disingenuous there... 10 years ago there was a massive investment and drive to up production and reduce cost, as well as rationalise the range of products being offered from the strip business. All the profit comes from the finishing end as I've said, so there was a drive to make more high quality, high margin stuff, but that's the same for many developed markets.

The Panasonic (I think) factory in between Newport and Cardiff closed after the subsidy ran out I believe. Is the semi-conductor plant near the patent office a different place?

It really galls me when some on this thread just go Oh well shit happens, yes it does but don't go looking for sympathy if and when it happens to you and your family.

Sources?

Seems to be quite a strong consensus here and elsewhere to see a positive solution to what is a very complex problem - the only silver lining has been the sharp bounce in steel prices and gross margins, perhaps that will tempt some investment.

Unfortunately, while this is "massive" for the region, Tata UK supplies less than 1% of global output. So the industry perspective is very different from the local economic one.

Pigface don't worry the government will just class all the unemployed as 'in training' and 'on courses' for the rest of their lives. There will be the creation of a local partnership with an agency to help the newly unemployed to strategize their search, new courses, interview tips, CV writing.... All for jobs that don't exist. But in Parliament politicians can show that they are 'taking action' and 'that they care about South Wales'.

No one will want to piss off China or grow a leadership 'pair of balls and enact protectionism like France did/has/still bloody does with alot of their big employers.

Arghh. And relax.

Its good to hear at least some of the job creation may have worked...

When I worked in manufacturing everyone was scared their job would be shipped to Asia and this was one of the reasons I left. The warning signs have been there for years.

It will be bad of the people involved and it will be horrible for the regions which may never recover. I can't see a way out for the location though. If they can never be competitive then no private company will buy them and if kept open by the government it is just throwing good money after bad if money is not spend to transform the area at the same time nothing will change only kick the can down the road.

[i]Things could be saved though if you vote Corbyn. Good old socialism will reopen the mines, the steel plants and so on, and everyone in the country will be funding to keep these places open and keep people in jobs, even if they never sell anything they produce.[/i]

I love this argument..surpised you didn't start it with..."you know there really is no other way."

Harking back to what happened decades ago and thinking that's what'll happen if we ever dare to challenge our neo-liberal order....not very progressive thinking.

The semiconductor plant is up for sale and will probably close as they are too far behind with wafer size to be cost efficient.. 🙁

Sources?

[img] [/img]

[img] https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2Che05OdGFTzZEqKeEwZT2MOLNSVFWs_Ik3lPItv_oDqNQN83ZA [/img]

Take your pick

The semiconductor plant is up for sale and will probably close as they are too far behind with wafer size to be cost efficient..

TBF that was the case in 2000, so little has changed. The semiconductor game needs huge upfront investment and then the market is very cyclical.

Note: The original part of the factory was designed by the Richard Rogers Partnership and so has similar design features to the Lloyd's building or Pompidou.

Lloyd's building or Pompidou.

copa - Member

Any "real world" examples of limitless public funds being made available?

Here's another one. Commitment to spend two percent of GDP on military toys. Currently around £40 billion but no limit on what it could rise to:
Defence spending commitment

The UK government couldn't give a toss about manufacturing. The only things they'll fund in Wales are roads to England and the military:
RAF Valley future secured
Posted 1 hour ago #

Copa, your hatred of the military doesn't half make you post some twaddle. On the points above:

1. Don't you think that a commitment to military spending might be good for UK manufacturing?
2. The 2% commitment was wrung out of the government by the Americans, and even then it employs some smoke and mirrors to allow them to claim 2%. Why would you think they'll increase it further?
3. The RAF are shutting bases. Is keeping Valley open and shutting Linton-on-Ouse in (Tory) North Yorkshire a dastardly plan to see off the Welsh? Where do you think Valley's (predominantly civilian) workforce live?

You could say that the UK should put a tariff on Chinese steel but as long as there is a country in the EU free trade area that does not have this tariff manufacturing using said steel could potentially just move there.

[img] [/img]

According to UK steel, we import LOTS more from europe anyway.

but cameron blocked the EU commission from imposing tarrifs Europe wide

to make sure we didnt upset osbornes plans for China to save his economic masterplan

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/david-cameron-accused-failing-uk-steel-industry-blocking-eu-lesser-duty-proposal

International rectifier had already stated that there was to be no inward investment to Newport and when infineon bought IR it was accelerated, they had already invested heavily into a 12" fab in Villach so the 6" fab in Newport was always going to be on a back foot. When infineon took over at Newport they surveyed the staff and asked them to describe their positions as a painting, one guy said "it's like the sun on the horizon, only we don't know if it's sunrise or sunset". There are some very competent people there who's skills will be either lost or drained abroad which is a huge shame never mind the impact on local communities.

but cameron blocked the EU commission from imposing tarrifs Europe wide

really?

a heavily subsidised political ally flooding the market with cheap oil and driving prices down in a global recession hasnt done our oil industry any favours, either

I put that quite badly actually, I meant that they aren't the big problem. They are a problem obviously.

The best news for Labour is that this happened when a Tory government was in power. I say this as exactly the same thing have happened under Labour and they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations) and basic economics to do anything about it.

Its very tough but its hardly a surprise, its not a bolt from the blue. The decline in Steel manufacturing in the developed world has been going for decades. I don't agree this is a short term blip either, we are in for many years of depressed economic conditions with the resultant impact on the price of steel.

12" fab in Villach so the 6" fab in Newport was always going to be on a back foot.

There used to be an 8" line at Newport in the 'new' building. The old building process was inefficient back in 2000 due to small wafer sizes and manual handling of steps, like hand dipping into HF baths 😯

they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations)

.......... except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month 😳

Actually you are right they are on 8" wafers i'm easily confused with what their site were set up as ...I'm pretty sure the no longer hand dip in HF anymore though! 🙂

The best news for Labour is that this happened when a Tory government was in power. I say this as exactly the same thing have happened under Labour and they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations) and basic economics to do anything about it.

Bit like the worldwide financial crisis that happened to occur when Labour were in charge then? Like you'll ever admit that.

except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month

Bit like the worldwide financial crisis that happened to occur when Labour were in charge then? Like you'll ever admit that.

https://fullfact.org/economy/did-uk-steel-production-halve-under-labour/

Personally I blame everyone on here who's not a riding a steel mtb... 😀

I imagine the government looked at what there might be to gain/lose from the situatio

Maybe they raised it with Xi Jinping when he visited last year, or maybe not?

hes so desperate for the chinese to save his economic plan that hes not going to risk rocking the boat
[img] [/img]

Personally I blame everyone on here who's not a riding a steel mtb...

Only if the steel was UK made otherwise you are part of the problem 🙂

what'll happen if we ever dare to challenge our neo-liberal order....not very progressive thinking.

Reality has a liberal bias.

Copa, your hatred of the military doesn't half make you post some twaddle. On the points above:

1. Don't you think that a commitment to military spending might be good for UK manufacturing?
2. The 2% commitment was wrung out of the government by the Americans, and even then it employs some smoke and mirrors to allow them to claim 2%. Why would you think they'll increase it further?
3. The RAF are shutting bases. Is keeping Valley open and shutting Linton-on-Ouse in (Tory) North Yorkshire a dastardly plan to see off the Welsh? Where do you think Valley's (predominantly civilian) workforce live?

1. Yes, of course it is. It's what Dwight Eisenhower talked about in 1961.
2. Westminster politicians slobber over weapons, invasions and war - they don't need encouraging.
3. The UK Gov can't afford to save a steelworks which supports 4,000 but it can afford a £1 billion contract to safeguard 400 jobs involved in the training of people to bomb stuff.

@copa we can buy steel from other countries, we would be very naive to rely on others for our security.

From @ninfan's link

[i]Under Labour, steel production halved. Under Labour, employment in steel halved. Since I have been Prime Minister, steel production has gone up and steel employment has stayed the same. So before we get a self-righteous lecture from Labour, I would say to them, "Look at your own record!"[/i]

subsidised political ally flooding the market with cheap oil and driving prices down in a global recession hasnt done our oil industry much good

From a Jambafact or ninfans drivel??? Are these from the same people who blamed Labour for the global recession?

I'm not sure the 70% rise in the unemployed of Aberdeen are seeing the brightside.
Or indeed the 15000 Tata employees no longer making steel for the UK O&G sector....

Capatalism for steel socialism for banks 😉

Very unfortunate for those involved but we're an uncompetitive bit player in the steel industry. China has produced more steel in the last two years than the UK industry has in its entire history. This isfree trade at work isn't it? If the government impose tariffs on imported steel to prop up the uk industry then it forces those that currently use Chinese steel to pay higher prices and therefore impact their business. Why should they suffer for the benefit of those affected by the steel plant closure. This is only going to get worse over coming years through the implementation of technology which renders a lot of traditional jobs non-existent.

@wiki how many job losses in financial services simce 2008? 200,000 ?

@PigfCe - factcheck.org

Might be cheap now, but how much will Chinese steel be when it hasn't got any competition left...Isn't that how capitalism works?

Only read page 1 but why not take over British steel and then use what's produced for all the supposed upcoming projects like hs2? Sell the steel at a cost neutral price to build public projects?

I say this while watching the current mob destroy anything with the word public in it.

Might be cheap now, but how much will Chinese steel be when it hasn't got any competition left...Isn't that how capitalism works?

Surely at that point, another country comes along that can produce it cheaper than China is now selling it, like they did to us?

MrOvershoot - Member
The thing is its not just the direct jobs at the steel plants but all the tertiary companies that rely on the steel works for a large proportion of their income.
I'm not sure of the exact figure but I think it was for every one person working in the steep plant two more relied on it for their job.

Served my apprenticeship in the steel industry, 6 great years before redundancy, we where part of the GKN empire, 2200 people working there, then Shotton down the hill got almost closed down.all steel mking stopped, biggest single redundancy in europe at the time,12000 workers jobs lost, along with huge numbers odf contractors, drivers, local shops suffered, as did everything related to the steelworks, then we started getting made redundant, and the same happened, eventually we closed down, chinese bought the plant and sent teams of chinese workers to dismantle it bolt by bolt and ship it to Birkenhead docks, onto china by boat,then 1200 miles accross land to Chang King in China where it was all rebuilt.

Then there was Bidston Steel down the road from where i live now, they where privately owned employed about 600 workers and lots of contractors, they got closed and site is now a tesco supermarket, and tennis centre.

The closures if they do happen will be catastrophic for the local areas, for its people, their way of life and skills base, pound shops dont usually have vacancies for highly skilled steelworkers, then there is also the emotional side, families are destroyed, kids go off the rails, vandalism and aggression builds up, firms go bust, a huge circle being formed.

Aside from the pointless arguing over bank bailouts, what I find interesting is that when it comes to nuclear weapons, we are told we must take the long view, that we cannot predict the future, and that unknown threats may arise which make it a strategic necessity to spend hundreds of billions of pounds on them. Yet when it comes to having our own capability for making a material that is a cornerstone of an industrial society, we are told that it's ok, we can import it, we don't need to make it ourselves, and that some other country will always be there to supply us with it no matter what may happen in the future. Seems to me the word 'strategic' is used only when it suits.

Aside from the pointless arguing over bank bailouts, what I find interesting is that when it comes to nuclear weapons, we are told we must take the long view, that we cannot predict the future, and that unknown threats may arise which make it a strategic necessity to spend hundreds of billions of pounds on them. Yet when it comes to having our own capability for making a material that is a cornerstone of an industrial society, we are told that it's ok, we can import it, we don't need to make it ourselves, and that some other country will always be there to supply us with it no matter what may happen in the future. Seems to me the word 'strategic' is used only when it suits.

Nailed it.

Finally when i was doing my apprenticeship bought a hammer from the local market, with a sticker on it saying made in China, foreman saw it asked why id bought it , isaid because it was cheap and all i could afford, STANLEY where 3 times the price, foreman took it off me and asked me to follow him to the loading bay of the Cupola, large iron melting furnace in the Foundry, he threw it in the molten iron.

I was gutted.

As i walked back with him he said you work for a british steel making company and yet you buy a foreign cheap tool, heres a chit for a new stanley hammer from the stores, treasure it, and i still have that hammer now.

Yet when it comes to having our own capability for making a material that is a cornerstone of an industrial society, we are told that it's ok, we can import it, we don't need to make it ourselves, and that some other country will always be there to supply us with it no matter what may happen in the future. Seems to me the word 'strategic' is used only when it suits.

Worked for a senior manager of unilever who was from South africa, his job setting up new plants round the world, i asked why detergenmts where not all made abroad but all round the world, expecting him to sy if the boat sunk it would cause huge pollution of the seas, he said in a war or some other catastrophic thing happening they needed a supply in most countries to still make a profit for the company, EG NO STOCK NO PROFIT.

nickc - Member

Might be cheap now, but how much will Chinese steel be when it hasn't got any competition left...Isn't that how capitalism works?

The Starbucks model in essence. Run at a loss until you put our competition out of business, then you can do, and charge what the hell you like.

Have the usual right wingers ever noticed how those of us who've actually witnessed first hand - in my case the miners in the 80's - the scorched earth decimation that follows to these communities, are the ones most vocal that a government shouldn't sit idly by and watch it happen, while doing nothing. Those of us who know from bitter experience what PT has got coming, wouldn't wish it on anyone

Ever watched heroine use get a grip of a community who until recently had jobs, and a decent standard of living, who now got nowt, least of all any hope, and are now living on the poverty line? There's possibly more depressing things to witness. Possibly...?

I haven't read every post so apologies if this has already been said. Part of the problem for UK steel was high electricity prices/carbon taxes to reduce CO2. But the global CO2 is not reduced if instead of making it here we buy it from China where the furnaces are powered by coal fired electricity. We are just transferring our CO2 output to China.

http://order-order.com/2016/03/30/eu-taxes-and-regulations-killed-british-steel-industry/

dazh - Member

Aside from the pointless arguing over bank bailouts, what I find interesting is that when it comes to nuclear weapons, we are told we must take the long view, that we cannot predict the future, and that unknown threats may arise which make it a strategic necessity to spend hundreds of billions of pounds on them. Yet when it comes to having our own capability for making a material that is a cornerstone of an industrial society, we are told that it's ok, we can import it, we don't need to make it ourselves, and that some other country will always be there to supply us with it no matter what may happen in the future. Seems to me the word 'strategic' is used only when it suits.

The rare valid point, spotted in the wild.

Yet when it comes to having our own capability for making a material that is a cornerstone of an industrial society, we are told that it's ok, we can import it, we don't need to make it ourselves, and that some other country will always be there to supply us with it no matter what may happen in the future.

that'll be the swedes, always neutral and going by the previous big one no qualms on who they sell it too 😉

Plenty of less sexy industries have all but disappeared such as textiles and shoe manufacturing from areas such not too far from Binners,

Romantic for mining? you can even have a go at the 150,000 tonnes of coal reserves up the road here. http://www.minersadvice.co.uk/hill_top.htm

Whether PT can or should be saved is probably going to get lost in political rehetoric, single industry towns are always going to be vulnerable. My preference is that we keep it going but only if there is a decent plan, the lack of anything beyond "intervene" and nationalise doesn't change the business model

except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month

I thought the reason the government (along with other countries) didn't support the EU proposal is that it coupled derisory action on imported chinese seamless pipe, heavy plate and hot-rolled flat steel steel with additional controls that would have impacted advanced steel products of the sort made in the UK and which are currently profitable? i.e. the proposal was poorly thought out and whilst giving negligible relief to one part of the steel industry would have simultaneously made another sector unprofitable. As I recall it the EU wasn't willing to uncouple these two things to enable rapid action to be taken on the controls where all countries were already in agreement.

project - Member

Finally when i was doing my apprenticeship bought a hammer from the local market, with a sticker on it saying made in China, foreman saw it asked why id bought it , isaid because it was cheap and all i could afford, STANLEY where 3 times the price, foreman took it off me and asked me to follow him to the loading bay of the Cupola, large iron melting furnace in the Foundry, he threw it in the molten iron.

I was gutted.

As i walked back with him he said you work for a british steel making company and yet you buy a foreign cheap tool, heres a chit for a new stanley hammer from the stores, treasure it, and i still have that hammer now.

Nice sentiment but Stanley are an American company!
At the time you could have bought a Britool hammer but then they were bought by the French company Facom & in a twist of fate they are all now owned by Stanley Black and Decker.

The rare valid point, spotted in the wild

Or just a sixth form emotive straw man argument.

Newsnight has had a bit more time to come up with a (hopefully) better piece than last night now

Edit: sadly not so far. Time to switch to Bear Grylls? (Bllx a repeat. Must be time for bed)

Only read page 1 but why not take over British steel and then use what's produced for all the supposed upcoming projects like hs2? Sell the steel at a cost neutral price to build public projects?

We're not allowed to do this, no-one in the European Union is. As unpalatable as it is in this instance it does in theory give UK firms a bash at supplying infrastructure projects in other EU countries.

[i]Nice sentiment but Stanley are an American company![/i]

Yes but produced here (and AFAIK run almost as a separate company).

enfht - Member

Or just a sixth form emotive straw man argument.

I like the way you countered the argument in detail there and explained its fallacies and weaknesses, very compelling.

For the record; it's not a straw man, it reasonably summarises many of the arguments in favour of keeping nuclear weapons and the similarities to the arguments for keeping critical industry. It's not an appeal to emotion either, clearly, there's no justification for that claim. But your "sixth form" ad hom was definitely an ad hom

The definative word comes on Newsnight from the incredibly grounded financial journalist from The Times....

They all need to move to London

So that's that then.

All sorted!

Phew!

Surely at that point, another country comes along that can produce it cheaper than China is now selling it, like they did to us?

Except for the fact that the second that happens the Chinese state will subsidise their export steel and impose tariffs on imported steel to collapse the competition.

Capitalism is a game that only works when everyone plays by the same rules.

It sounds like bad news for the Chinese taxpayer that apparently there's a state policy to subsidise every steel consumer in the world, but good news for everyone else.

They all need to move to London

Parking might be a problem...

[img] [/img]

They all need to move to London

now where have I heard that before ?

[img] [/img]

As i walked back with him he said you work for a british steel making company and yet you buy a foreign cheap tool, heres a chit for a new stanley hammer from the stores,

I dunno how long ago that was, but he might have been a bit horrified to find that Corus' (and I believe it still operates under Tata) sales division had no requirement to buy and sell their own steel. It operated more like city trading house.

post deleted

UK agriculture receives around £3.6 billion per annum in government subsidies (little wonder land is £10k) yet no mention of that getting cut in the budget? All depends on who is receiving the true benefit when it comes to subsidies...

Northwind - the point is making is not a critical industry. Its a low level, bottom of the technical/manufacturing food chain business. The future is "value added" manufacturing and/or design and technical innovation - exactly what the Germans have focused on and what they are very good at. We need to face the fact they have been a lot better at it than us From what I've read a lot of our steel usage / requirements is in construction. Its not high tech making steel girders or reinforcing mesh for concrete. As the Welsh Unite representative said, the construction insdustry won't pay extra for higher quality British steel. Our manufacturing future is more like Hope Technology or our leadership in building Formula 1 cars.

I appreciate the controversy of "get on your bike" but we cannot ignore the reality that people are prepared to travel half way accross Europe to get a job in the UK. Steel manufacturing has been in decline for decades, my father got out of the business in the mid 1970's

Parking might be a problem...

More importantly though, theres a plentiful supply of affordable housing, so I'm sure it'll be fine

And the retraining from steelworker to City trader or web developer in a funky Hoxton agency is a quick and painless one

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/cameron-assumes-steel-workers-just-become-male-strippers-20160331107633 ]And theres always this[/url]