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AA - how much have you seen DVDM play? He is no Harris defensively but he is not weak nor is he weak under the high ball. I have watched him play week in week out. Have you?
He is one dimensional yes - but he is not a poor defender - thats just nonsense
https://punditarena.com/rugby/eoin-harte/stephen-ferris-doubts-duhan-van-der-merwe/
Stephen Ferris agrees.
Ahem irish press...
AA – how much have you seen DVDM play?
Enough to see him exposed a number of times, he bites in early when he should stay wide and like most big wingers he doesn't like the ball put behind him, he's not bad in the air but he's no Loopy under the high ball. Weak is the wrong word, he's anything but weak but he's not got the defensive solidity of Adams. He brings other things.
Weak is the wrong word
Not as good as Watson, Adams or Williams would be the words I would use.
I don't see the point in arguing about it, some of us think he might get exposed, others don't. It's all interesting discussion and we will see what happens.
Meanwhile Itoje and AWJ playing together should produce some magic, I heard there was a bit of bromance going on there.
I don’t see the point in arguing about it, some of us think he might get exposed, others don’t. It’s all interesting discussion and we will see what happens.
I hope he has a stormer!!
Would like to see him coming in running off 9 and picking and going up the guts as an extra forward.
Would like to see him coming in running off 9 and picking and going up the guts as an extra forward.
we can all hope. Fingers crossed for a stomping game. If TJ comes back with a told you so over Price and VDM we will all be happy.
Meanwhile Itoje and AWJ playing together should produce some magic, I heard there was a bit of bromance going on there.
I think AWJ is a perfect Mentor for Maro TBH. I hope they keep in touch and if Maro ever becomes Captain you love to know he was being mentored by AWJ.
As a Munster & Irish fan I find Murray really frustrating now. I think Irelands box kicking / one out runner strategy under Joe Smith destroyed him. It was completely preprogrammed which may be why some posters have said he seems to know exactly what he is going to do when he gets to a ruck. He also hardly ever has a snipe now or even gets on the end of a move. He used to pose a real running threat.
The other way of looking at the bench is it is to close out a game not to change it up. Perhaps we will be so far ahead we can bring on Farrell and Murray and kick deep.
Oh I was going to come back with a rant but everyone ( me included) calmed down *shocked picachu face*
VDM has been coming in off his wing and playing off 9 a bit more recently and in these warmups a bit. I guess thats what he has been told to do and part of why he was picked. His first couple of season he did tend to just patrol a touchline
I hope they keep in touch and if Maro ever becomes Captain you love to know he was being mentored by AWJ.
For a while he was being touted as new england captain, is this still on the cards?
I think Itoje will make a good captain. He is a smart bloke. I would have been happy with him captaining the lions. when you watch him in a game when the players are in a huddle he seems to have plenty to say and the little I have heard him say in public is thoughtful and smart. His comments over "swing low" were IMO spot on. Just the right tone.
Gatlands reasoning as to why adams was left out: Emotional due to baby and picked up a knock. Seems fair.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/it-easy-out-us-warren-21107538
edit plus more on Itoje/AWJ etc.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/maro-itoje-interview-usain-bolt-21101648
Wales on line really does good rugby coverage, our local rag (ironically the same Reach news syndicate) is rubbish.
Ref: AWJ and Maro. 4 years ago I said to my English mates that Maro would benefit from playing with AWJ on the NZ Lions tour and was dismissed as talking horse.
Without question AWJ is over his peak, but he brings so much else in leadership and attitude that those around him can’t help be effected by the experience.
The Lions have an abundance of 2nd rows that whilst picking AWJ, to me at least is a no brainier, that leaves some excellent players in the stands as spectators. I think that goes for many positions across the park. The fact that Biggar is the first choice 10 shows how bereft of talent we have available. Yes there’s lots of decent players, more injured than fit, but there’s no one properly World Class. Even Finn when he’s not being mercurial*
* Mercurial = often shite**
** Sarcasm @TJ
It would have been interesting to see if finn got a place if / when he is fit
Right from the beginning tho i said Biggar should be the ten - not because he is the best but because his style suits the lions best.
Biggar should be the ten – not because he is the best but because his style suits the lions best.
Umm then he is the best.
Regarding Finn, the mercurial point is fair, but when he is on the money he is bloody good. I wonder if anyone can work on why he goes wrong?
Ah man, I'm SO excited for the first test on Saturday. Looks like a cracking team to me. I really don't care where players are from when they pull a Lions jersey on. I'm an Englishman but I'm really looking forward to seeing AWJ as captain, Hogg at fullback and Conan at #8. Having watched all the tour games so far it's going to be a real test, especially after the midweek against that suspiciously strong SA 'A' team.
Hope our scrum only moves forwards, hope Itoje does his usual midair snaffling at the lineout, hope Price & Biggar work well together and hope the back 3 have rockets on their boots.
C'mon you Lions 🙂
and hope the back 3 have rockets on their boots.
I hope not,for a half Hogg and Watson should be kicking the leather off the ball. I can't vouch for Watson but Hogg has a boot like a siege gun, as does Daly for that matter. Meanwhile DVM will be popping up on short crashes or testing Kolbe's shoulders. Proper smash mouth rugby,the first half will not be a good advert for non rugby fans, but if you like the game it will be some contest.
I'd rather they not get drawn into an arm wrestle, big boot only as good as the chase and that's where kolbe may show up the bigger DvdM if he's not under pressure on the catch. They'll definitely slide a back rower over towards that wing.
I think some of you are going to be surprised.
DVDM to make more metres and beat more defenders than any of the backs.
What the forfeit / bet? Greggs till you bust? Photo of you with a Scotland shirt on ( I'll find an england one?) Photo of you preying to the shrine of the superhero DVDM? ( I'll do one for Farrell)
thats what he did in the 6N I believe - made more metres and beat more defenders than any other player from the home nations
I don't think duckman is right. remember Toonie is one of the coaches.
I think the team is set up to nullify the SA pack and to force them to kick but I expect to see a fair amount of counter attacking from SA kicks unless they get a perfect kick game. I also expect a lot of contestable kicking from Biggar and Price but not a lot of the long kicking game.
Kolbe / DVDM is going to be entertaining tho. Two very different types of wingers
Don't forget SA have some big chunky centres to truck it up off 10 and a couple of locks who will hit a ruck in a manner that needs careful looking at. First lions jackel is going to get smashed bloody hard.
Classic SA PS de Toit to press biggar into a less the good kick, locks tracking back to upset the lions chase and openholes for the return then be early to tackle to clear out defence. Worked twice in the WC final.
anyone want to take up the bet?
anyone want to take up the bet?
What's the bet?
I think some of you are going to be surprised.
DVDM to make more metres and beat more defenders than any of the backs.
Yawn.
What’s the bet?
Can we have a bet on who's the first Lion to be involved in a punch up?
Its a fair bet on Itoje or Jones the Prop.
Kryton - want to just stop with the digs please. Its childish and tedious . I tried to make peace with you but you just keep on with the snide digs, Grow up
the bet is that DVDM makes more metres and beats more defenders than any other back
If he does we need a pic of you either worshipping at a shrine to him or wearing a scotland shirt. If he doesn't I'll make a shrine to Farrell ( or the player of your chice) or wear and england shirt
Or all the Greggs you can eat!
Kryton – want to just stop with the digs please. Its childish and tedious . I tried to make peace with you but you just keep on with the snide digs, Grow up
He said "yawn". It was an expression of his boredom with the topic, which lets face it you have made about 50 posts on. It seems a fair reaction, not childish, snide or cutting. I'm bored of it too, I thought we buried the hatchet when we all wished VDM well. Why do you need to keep pressing it? And you talk about other people lashing out or needing to grow up?
You keep banging the same drum TJ, its tedious as I'm sure some of my posts are, nothing wrong with the Yawn comment in that regard. I'd have said it if someone else had posted it, it's not about you personally.
tried to make peace
You didn't appear to, you accused ok implied at best I was involved in name calling and "slagging"
Grow up
Your change of attitude/writing style has been noted across other threads not just this one and not just by me. I'm sensitive of your situation so I'll say no worse than please have a think about the comments you've received recently before you post.
Everyone can see Kryton - you are being childish and unpleasant.
I offered a bet as a joke. the bet being tht DVDM would make the most yrads and beat the most defenders
Kryton chose to make another childish attack
well yo have got your wish. Yo have driven me off the thread with your continual childish and petulant posts.
Have a think about how patronizing your last post is.
Edit. Cross post
Gatland believes some South African players will be “underdone” after they were forced to isolate amid a Covid outbreak.
Spot of sledging from our man in SA.
See this:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/21/alun-wyn-jones-to-captain-lions-in-first-test-after-remarkable-recovery-south-africa-rugby
Getting fired up now.
OK, well I'm sorry you feel that way TJ.
Moving on:
Spot of sledging from our man in SA.
Wrong team to wind up? But it all makes for a great piece of Rugby theatre.
Wrong team to wind up?
Well yeah you don't throw grenades without expecting something back...
Because I can't respond directly I'll just - carefully - say this; You've misunderstood my intentions. Whether you agree or not, or my writing style communicates that intention inappropriately I can assure you that you've taken it the wrong way and I'm not deliberately... well you know.
Enjoy the Rugby, and come back to the thread for the banter when you feels its the right time.
Reflect on it then. Its completely unacceptable to be patronizing like that whether you intend it or not. think why I sent a pm and reflect on that
I know I am touchy right now but reflect on what you did and said.
Read it, thought about it, I’m good with the way it was intended, like I said I’m sorry you’ve taken it differently.
Can we talk about Rugby now?
Planet rugby's "expert" analysis thinks we will win.
Gatland in a rage this morning, the Saffers have appointed Marius Jonkers as TMO for tomorrow…
In other rugby, so to summarise Welsh teams can carry on losing all the games as usual can they?
The 24 competing teams were drawn into two pools of 12 - which were each then split into four tiers of three clubs.
In each pool, tier-one sides face tier-four teams, and clubs in tier two playing those in tier three.
Each pool's tier has three clubs - one each from the Premiership, Pro14 and Top 14 - with the tiers determined by domestic standings.
In the pool stage, teams do not face opponents from the same domestic league - so, for instance, a tier-one Premiership club will only play the Pro14 and Top 14 teams in tier four.
Defending champions Toulouse, who are in tier one, will face tier-four clubs Wasps and Cardiff Blues.
The 2021-22 Champions Cup final is scheduled to be in Marseille on 28 May next year.
Pool A
Tier one: La Rochelle, Exeter Chiefs, LeinsterTier two: Racing 92, Sale Sharks, Ulster
Tier three: Clermont Auvergne, Northampton Saints, Ospreys
Tier four: Montpellier, Bath, Glasgow Warriors
Pool B
Tier one: Toulouse, Harlequins, MunsterTier two: Bordeaux-Begles, Bristol Bears, Connacht
Tier three: Stade Francais, Leicester Tigers, Scarlets
Tier four: Castres, Wasps, Cardiff Blues
This makes no sense, they are pitting the best against the worst and the middle against the middle? Whats the point?
Hasn't world rugby appointed jonkers? Could be worse could be Craig (run away) joubert.
TJ assuming we're talking about metres made and all backs both teams I'll take the bet (money to local MRT).
I'm hoping big Rory gets a start, last time I spoke with him he was hoping to get a signed lions top to auction for the pumptrack funds. Be cool to have it on a lions 1 top.
About 2:40 in you'll also see Phoebe Gale fmd racing and UK junior downhill champ and William Brodie UK junior no2.
TJ assuming we’re talking about metres made and all backs both teams I’ll take the bet (money to local MRT).
I presume he just means Lions, which given that he's the left wing, it likely, although given SA's love of kicking the leather off the ball it could well be Hogg all those m gained before any likely contact add up!
AA it's almost like you are saying that metres gained is probably a bit meaningless? 😉
Guys - forget the bet. Given Krytons lack of respect and his needlessly aggressive behaviour along with his total unwillingness to even reflect on how he has behaved or apologise I will only be dipping into this thread occasionally. basically he has ruined it for me and life is too short to spend time with arses.
Anybody seen Neil Francis's comments about Smith? Not going to repeat it but what a complete shitehawk.
Francis is a ****. Copsey had the right idea years ago!
The usual good insight from Squidge, a couple of interesting points that the lay-viewer doesn’t spot! Maybe Farrells better than we think…
Predictions? I think it’ll be close, I’m optimistically going 23-18 Lions.
Bu**er, Jones the prop is out injured. Sutherland starting and Mako V on the bench. Wish they had put MV to start and save Sutherland to try and deal with Malherbe. Far better scrummager.
Sutherland is excellent though, does that mean Mako is on bench?
edit yes - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57953913
Team looked like we're trying to blast them of the park first half, but got to Worry about the scrum in the second half. As well as mako, there's the second row.
Awj can't be 80 minute fit. And they've got Beirne as lock cover. He's not played a minute there on tour, never locks down on the tight side, and is really too lightweight, especially against the boks. Great at 6, not a tight scrumming lock. The "leaked" team looked better with Henderson there. Of the two, rather they left him on the bench and drop one of Byrne or Watson cos they're both effectively back row cover. I know Lawes is in there and could shift across, but if he's doing the job he's picked for at 6 then he'd be too knackered anyway. Good job Maro plays 80 minutes most games. If the boks knobble him early we're shafted.
I guess they had to add another back to the bench with henshaw, biggar, and Hogg all coming in off knocks. Hope we're not hanging on with 14 at the end
I think Sutherland has started as part of a plan to compete with the perceived SA strengths from the first whistle, also suspect Sutherland might get asked to do 80 now. Nothing between him and W-Jones on the tour but I would have started Sutherland as I can't see how they will get a full game out of AWJ based on his absence and bringing on Wyn Jones and Ken Owens would give you 2 front row reps that know each other really well and leadership in Owens. Vunipola has unfortunately looked a shadow of his former self.
Agree that Sutherland is excellent, I would want him facing Malherbe. Mako has played well in the last 2 games (least said about the earlier ones the better), but Malherbe + flanker is enough to hold him in a scrum. That leaves 6 Bokke to attack the tight head just like the world cup final.
Paid up to now TV for a day... Getting excited, hat trick from DVdM I reckon!
Porter's earlier injury looks a massive loss now. Genuine international quality scrummager on both sides.
Lots of leadership to come on in Owens, Murray, Farrell. Really looks like blast into a lead then try to see it out.
Just paid for a month.
Bierne is more lock than flanker tbf.
Not since his move back to Ireland.
Henderson s a lock that covers 6. Beirne is a six that covers lock.
I had forgotten how much I hate sky Spurts!!
Excited now...
Heart rate already up!
No arms surely?
not much of a wrap was it?
Wasn't sure Hogg wasn't taken in the air either.
I suspect the replays will favour the home side. À la France.
And as if by magic, Instant replay.
Late and no arms - bit lucky there not to be carded
Yeah Curry stupid.
However reffing a bit shit I think.
Bit shite from lions so far!
****ing two hands Jesus
Some signs BI could unlock SA but need to cut the errors!
Line-out is a disaster
Scrum struggling
SA very aggressive in defence
Lions strong at breakdown
Potential if get outside SA defence
Lions will get better more they play
Reffing is a bit amateur hour
Just seems to be a lack of go-forward. The centres are ineffective and the backs aren’t really in the game.
With SA got to earn the space to release the backs. Tour matches flatter to deceive with weak opposition
Need to sort set-piece and play some phase rugby
Need to carry ball direct.
Need to carry ball direct
Yep, take up first/second receiver lots of big ball carriers
Still well within touch - not as bad as the pundits are suggesting
Told you...
Bloody home TMO's
Jonkers, we must have some kompromat on him. Pee tape.