[Closed] Bristol people, 20mph review starts today

I hope it stays.

It’s noticeable when you go to other cities just how fast 30mph feels!

I'd love to be able to drive at 20mph in Bristol. There's too much traffic to go much above a crawl

Cambridge has a blanket 20mph speed limit with the ring road being the only exception. Without any doubt 100% of drivers ignore it, probably means the average car speed is nearer to 30 than 40 though as everyone ignored the previous 30mph limit. You still get the odd idiot doing 60 or greater in a 20 sadly. There's no enforcement as there are so few Police left after all the cuts to public services.

Don’t the police say 20mph speed limits are unenforceable and pointless ? Whilst they support the idea, the practicality of enforcing the law is neigh on impossible.

Theres been 20mph speed limits in Town near the Appt, pretty much universally ignored until they approach the speed cameras.

Thank Maybot for the police cuts, and that ignorant Rudd for completion of the decimated service.

I can only speak from experience but around here people are driving slower. They generally aren't obeying the limit, but then they weren't before. People who were doing 40 in a 30 are now doing 30 in a 20 which is a success of sorts and I'd say most people drive below 30. Certainly when on my bike I get far less high speed passes and less passes in general. People seem more content to stay behind me rather than break the speed limit to squeeze past. Its also much nicer walking as its easier to cross the road. So certainly not pointless. As for unenforceable I don't really understand that. Stand at the side of the road with the hair drier. According to Clarkson et al  it makes them loads of money so why not?

Stand at the side of the road with the hair drier.

I did see a bloke doing just that in Edinburgh. Also pretending to talk into a non existent radio...

I did see a bloke doing just that in Edinburgh. Also pretending to talk into a non existent radio…

One of the funniest things I ever saw on my bike was a bloke standing just out of sight on an off-camber bend.  Local road with a 40mph limit which was universally ignored (I reckon the average speed was about 60-70) and close / dangerous passes are the norm.

I stopped to watch for nearly 20 minutes because I enjoyed it so much.  He'd wait until a car came bombing along and then he'd leap out from behind his sign in a high-vis vest and locked-and-loaded hair dryer.  I think with slightly more planning he could have collected a string of cars in the ditch by the side of the road, but I had to settle for some squirrelly twitching, screeching of tyres, and presumably new underwear for the drivers.

I also notice when I visit mrs dd’s hometown where the car really is king, just how fast people drive on residential 30mph roads. I feel that in Brizzle it’s dragged the speeds on narrow terraced housing streets down quite a bit. I quite enjoy crawling along at 20mph when some arsehole behind is trying to read the small print on my number plate. 🙂

Any kind of urban cycling still feels like a battle though. Close passing rather than speed though. Amazes me to see the risks people will take just to get to the back of a queue somewhere.

I like it in Edinburgh, as above it just means most driving is under 30 now.

As ever, plenty of moronic drivers don't understand the point of actual benefits of it.

Don’t the police say 20mph speed limits are unenforceable and pointless ? Whilst they support the idea, the practicality of enforcing the law is neigh on impossible.

I know - their horses can't do more than 20 🙂

It's hard to argue against, there's certainly some roads in Bristol where even 20mph is too fast to be safe and whilst there are others where there's so much room & visibility that 20mph is unnecessarily slow it would be a PITA to deal with multiple changes in speed limit in a small area. It should be legal to 'bump' drunk students out of the way on Gloucester Road though, the pavement's for staggering about drunk on not the road...

On a random tangent, we were in Berlin over the WE and I couldn't get over how nice all the car drivers were to cyclists. It seems normal to undertake a car turning right on a bike (at speed) and the cars just stop and give way. In Cambridge, which is pretty cycling tolerant, you'd get knocked off doing the equivalent. Also really nice to see very few cycling helmets, people felt (and were) very safe on bikes.

It's ace, canny wait til it's applied to all towns.

Standing waiting at a crossroads, and a double decker bus goes past you at 35+, it really makes you realise how mad it is that a vehicle of that size, with it's sheer mass and stopping distance, is allowed to do that, along a busy shopping street.

Don’t the police say 20mph speed limits are unenforceable and pointless ?

IIRC they said they're not going to be enforcing it, rather than it being unenforceable per se.

IIRC they said they’re not going to be enforcing it, rather than it being unenforceable per se.

I believe the ACPO statement was that they weren't planning to take specific action to enforce 20mph limits. The usual policing (yes, I know...) of speed limit compliance would still take place. I know WMP has carried out enforcement campaigns in 20 limits where non-compliance was seen to be an issue.

we were in Berlin over the WE and I couldn’t get over how nice all the car drivers were to cyclists

Doesn’t Germany have presumed liability laws for car on bike incidents?

On a random tangent, we were in Berlin over the WE and I couldn’t get over how nice all the car drivers were to cyclists. It seems normal to undertake a car turning right on a bike (at speed) and the cars just stop and give way.

Firstly German drivers are taught to look over their shoulders for cyclists when turning right, secondly yes the German law says that the fault of an accident with a cyclits is on the driver unless proven otherwise and lastly a large number of Germans cycle so they know how excatly it feels to be a vulnerable road user. It isn't all sweetness and light though and I have had quite a few altercations with idiot drivers when out on my bike. Idiots will be idiots.

On the subject of 20mph there are also speed limits of 30kmh in a lot of residential areas in Germany and they are mostly adhered to without problems.

Cheers for the heads-up btw Nick. Have filled out and added my comments.

Wasn’t aware of this, but sounds like a brilliant idea and I sincerely hope it’s rolled out across more towns.

I’m on the south-glos border and lucky enough to have a 20mph road it’s great.

Standing waiting at a crossroads, and a double decker bus goes past you at 35+, it really makes you realise how mad it is that a vehicle of that size, with it’s sheer mass and stopping distance, is allowed to do that, along a busy shopping street.

Its weird how people accept that and lorries as well and it’s not like there hasn’t been a few incidents of accidents(or not) to show how bad an idea it is.

Go by them at 15mph on a bicycle thou and and your the greatest life threatening menace ever 🙂

I think its bobbin's.

It's not really a blanket ban of 20mph everywhere is it?

Bigger roads like Coronation road, Hotwells road, Muller road, Bath road, etc are 30mph

Gloucester road North is 40mph as is Cumberland basin.

When I do manage to cycle into work I can't say I've noticed a distinct lowering of speeding cars but I have noticed a lot of dithering and shonky driving practices. The cyclists aren't much better either.

I hope they remove it on the A420 into the city, having a 20mph limit on a major trunk route is daft.

The A420 is 30 most of the way in then drops to 20 when you get to St George where there are shops on both sides of the road. Makes it much nicer for pedestrians, it's a major shopping area. Same for Gloucester rd mentioned above. 40 out of town, dropping to 30 once it's gets built up, then 20 when you get to the shopping bit. Seems sensible to me. These roads are main routes in but not the main route. Seems a sensible compromise to me.

secondly yes the German law says that the fault of an accident with a cyclits is on the driver unless proven otherwise

I did think this might be the case, but in most cases I would say the cyclist would be at fault as undertaking a car mid right turn is certainly a 'bold' move, but seems to be completely normal in Berlin.

The sooner this gets implemented around Southampton city centre, the better!

I will echo the comments of cynic al about Edinburgh, everyone still speeds, but they are all under 30 now.

it feels nicer to me as a bus driver, there’s much less of a speed difference between cycles and other types of traffic.

should be law within all towns, the slower cars are allowed to go, the more likely people are to consider other modes of transport.

I hope they remove it on the A420 into the city, having a 20mph limit on a major trunk route is daft.

Why is it daft?

On a random tangent, we were in Berlin over the WE and I couldn’t get over how nice all the car drivers were to cyclists.

It's similar in Catalonia to continue the tangent. (Watch out for the Brits and French though).

So, we implement a law that turns all drivers into criminals and once again re-enforces in those drivers minds that "it's ok to exceed the limit".  Hmm, sounds sensible.......

And what happens now around places where even 20mph would be too fast? Do we need a 10mph limit as well??

So, we implement a law that turns all drivers into criminals and once again re-enforces in those drivers minds that “it’s ok to exceed the limit”.

It does seem to lower the mean speed though...

Do we need a 10mph limit as well??

I'd prefer a law saying that any accident with Pedestrian / cyclist / horse was automatically the driver's fault in any 20mph zone. Would make drivers think twice about being idiots.

The police can and do enforce 20mph limits - I got pulled over by a pair with a speed gun in Fife when I was a student.

Now I'm older and wiser, 20mph across a city is a great idea.

we implement a law that turns all drivers into criminals

The law doesn't make drivers criminals, it's their choosing to break it that makes them criminals.

And what happens now around places where even 20mph would be too fast? Do we need a 10mph limit as well??

Sure, if 20mph would be too fast then a lower limit is a good idea.

Apparently the average speed around a 5 mile radius of Bristol city centre sits at 12.82 mph.

No need to enforce it.

Average is useful for a general trend, specific cases are more important on an individual basis. How much of that is stationary traffic at peak traffic density times?

I've done a lot of rallying. Certain events you have to average a maximum of 30mph between controls, yet we regularly exceed twice or three times that while still averaging 30 ... so the average is useless for determining what is appropriate in open public spaces.

I think a blanket 20 mph everywhere inside the M4/M5/ring road area would be great in Bristol. Too much traffic transits through Bristol because it is the shortest route. Too many people driving like rat runs are race tracks. The entire city centre should be open only to peds, bikes, taxis, busses and traders. The worse the city is for driving a private vehicle in, the more people will be forced to use an alternative.

Apparently the average speed around a 5 mile radius of Bristol city centre sits at 12.82 mph.

Would you use the average height of the Himalayas to decide how high to fly over Everest?

Apparently the average speed around a 5 mile radius of Bristol city centre sits at 12.82 mph.

Yes, but one must reach the next set of traffic lights in the shortest possible time.

The average has no real bearing on the speed people drive in between. You could even argue the lower limit increases efficiency and results in quicker journeys - I know this has been quoted for reasoning in lowering limits on other roads.

we implement a law that turns all drivers into criminals...

How exactly does it turn anyone into a criminal?

What it does is make for a much more pleasant environment to be in (once you step out of your personal box). Less noise, less pollution, fewer serious injuries, the world becomes a nicer place.

they do enforce the 20mph in Bristol through the mobile camera van. Mrs got done on Jacobs Wells Rd recently.

http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/34851/

not sure how effective it has actually been in improving road safety by any measurable yardstick. I think they spent £2.1m on implementing the 20mph zones across the city and the only evidence is a fairly biased UWE report on its performance, that sings its praises....but only really makes estimates on its effectiveness in reducing casualties. I went to a road safety conference in Bristol a few years ago where the council, mayor, police, highways people, Sustrans etc were all there, and someone did ask if this spend was the best way to spend money to reduce road casualties (a measurable indicator of road safety improvement)…..there wasn't much of a useful answer from the politicians.  I do like the 20mph zones, and I do think they have brought speeds down, but not by much at all. And if we want to reduce road casualties in our cities this probably isn't the best way to spend money.