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[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14047670 ]First synthetic organ transplant[/url]
Good luck to the chap, hope it all works out well for him. This is what science should be used for, **** that military bullshit, imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these...
Are you sure that's a windpipe?
This is what science should be used for, **** that military bullshit, imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these...
Brilliant, soldier gets wounded, just give him new body parts and send him straight back out there. No need to train someone new.
That's ace ain't it.
Wow! The 21st century finally arrives!
Could almost have been lifted from an Ian M Banks yarn - great stuff!
This is what science should be used for, **** that military bullshit, imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these...
[quote=Bertrand Russel]Men are capable, not only of fear and hate, but also of hope and benevolence. If the populations of the world can be brought to see and to realize in imagination the hell to which hate and fear must condemn them on the one hand, and, on the other, the comparative heaven which hope and benevolence can create by means of new skills, the choice should not be
difficult, and our self-tormented species should allow itself a life of joy such as the past has never known.
Common Sense and Nuclear Warfare : Bertrand Russell
ook that military bullshit, imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these...
Many important emergency procedures, nursing practices, sterile hospital environments, etc. were pioneered at the front line of 19th and 20th Century wars. Modern medicine, ironically, owes a great debt to the efforts of wartime medical staff.
Kit - Member
...Modern medicine, ironically, owes a great debt to the efforts of wartime medical staff.
Not to mention certain WWII German experiments on lesser races...
Wow!! That really is amazing.
Like all that stuff you used to see on Tomorrow's World that never went anywhere, actually going somewhere!
A PhD student I used to get help from when I was at uni while doing my final year project was involved in this kind of thing.
He was investigating fluid flow through heart valves using CFD analysis. It was a bit more complicated than the 2-D aerofoil stuff I was doing!!
imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these.
Just imagine if the cost of developing these artificial organs were spent on getting clean water to people who don't have it. I reckon you'd be looking at a minimum of saving 100 lives for every life these organs save and maybe as high as a 1000.
anyone seen the film 'repo-men'?
Not to mention certain WWII German experiments on lesser races...
Lots of dubious and immoral research techniques have been carried out by peacetime scientists too. What's your point?
"What's your point? "
Alot of research carried out in concentration camps would not have been allowed any where else at any time in the past or future but has improved invaluable to medicine.
"This is what science should be used for, **** that military bullshit, imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these..."
Technology tends to advance at a greater rate when wars are happening than when not.
Also alot of surgeons will go and work in warzones and bring the techniques and technologies used back to the NHS.
Kit - Member
"Not to mention certain WWII German experiments on lesser races..."
Lots of dubious and immoral research techniques have been carried out by peacetime scientists too. What's your point?
Even out of evil can come some good. Thought that was kind of obvious.
Oh, I thought you were condemning their work because it was during WW2! Yes, you're entirely correct, sorry.
avdave2 - Member"imagine what could be achieved if all that spending was put towards sorting problems like these."
Just imagine if the cost of developing these artificial organs were spent on getting clean water to people who don't have it. I reckon you'd be looking at a minimum of saving 100 lives for every life these organs save and maybe as high as a 1000.
No profit in that tho!
Its a real issue - western diseases of affluence the various med tech companies can make good profits out of high tech cures. 3rd world diseases - no profits to be made thus little research done.
This is why I am against heart transplants.
Its a great piece of technical wizardry but its application will allwys be expensive and limited.
This is why I am against heart transplants.
Would you say that to a heart transplant patient? Someone who's bin given a new lease of life cos of medical wizardry?
What about if you ever needed one? Would you be prepared to die for your principles?
Superglue was invented as a means to close up large wounds on the battlefield. I have managed to stick myself to things many, many times using it.
I have managed to stick myself to things many, many times using it
Mrs Surfer hit me in the face with a golf club (she says it was an accident!) they used Superglue to stick my face back together. I though they were just being cheap and given that chicks love scars wanted the full stiched look!
Elfinsafety - Member
This is why I am against heart transplants.
Would you say that to a heart transplant patient? Someone who's bin given a new lease of life cos of medical wizardry?
What about if you ever needed one? Would you be prepared to die for your principles?
The two aren't mutually exclusive, Elf. I don't think anyone would turn away a heart transplant if it were available and if it would give them a new lease of life, or resent anyone who took one. you can do that and also believe the balance of medical research would be better skewed towards saving more lives (even if they are those of far away brown people), rather than generating more profit for western medical institutions and individuals. I don't think you'd honestly say that was wrong either.
It's almost as if you're arguing for the sake of it.
It's almost as if you're arguing for the sake of it.
What, Elfin?
No. Way.
That guy?
You're 'avin' a laugh, intcha?
Seriously?
I mean, for real?!
😉
It's almost as if you're arguing for the sake of it.
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Its a great piece of technical wizardry but its application will allwys be expensive and limited.
It's that bit I din't like. Putting a value on Human Life.
Of course, ideally there should be sufficient resources for the same treatment to be available to all people.
Not an ideal World though, is it?
I think there are many, many, many more things what could and should be sacrificed before things like heart transplants. Like Golf courses and spensive cars.
Elf, I've often thought your fingers were stuck to the keyboard 😉
nedrapier - Member
...and also believe the balance of medical research would be better skewed towards saving more lives (even if they are those of far away brown people...
Maybe the "far away brown people" would also enjoy better medical facilities if the western nations didn't stripmine all their best medical graduates...
Elf, I've often thought your fingers were stuck to the keyboard
But then I'd just type 'ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd' or something all the time. 😐
Its a great piece of technical wizardry but its application will allwys be expensive and limited.It's that bit I din't like. Putting a value on Human Life.
Which is exactly what TJ was saying. Medical research as a whole, as a collection of individuals and institutions has put a value on human life by deciding that there's more money in diseases of the rich than diseases of the poor.
And sure, you can't compare someone's life with a golf course (but I'm sure plenty have) but golf courses aren't in the business of saving lives through medical research.
And super glue wasn't invented to close wounds though it was used in Vietnam for that purpose even though it wasn't approved by the FDA and modern medical glue is slightly different from the glue you buy over the counter.
there is a limited pot of money. For te money a heart transplant costs many people with more minor illness could be helopoed more quickly.
And yes - I probably would refuse a heart transplant. I ain't no bullheart style brave fighter. I am a cowardly run away type.
In typical STW style, I didn't get as far as reading the link in the OP, just got stuck in on arguing on someone else's tangent.
That is pretty damn amazing, and one of the beneficiaries is indeed a little brown person from far away. Can't see it ever being cheap or available for anyone outside the "developed, westernised" world, but hopefully it will become cheaper and more accessible and more people will benefit, wherever they're from.
And yes - I probably would refuse a heart transplant. I ain't no bullheart style brave fighter. I am a cowardly run away type.
I find it really difficult to come out with statements like that. I think it's very hard to know how you'd react with your life on the line, and and what choices to make for you and those close to you.
I think that's why we're so drawn to stories of great courage and determination in extreme circumstances, because we want to try to understand how we might react.
ned - indeed it is hard to know hence the use of "probably". I have seen a lot of this sort of thing tho professionally over the years so have alittle bit more than a laymans knowledge.
In my own mind I am sure - but I haven't been there yet and until tested you don't know
And yes - I probably would refuse a heart transplant. I ain't no bullheart style brave fighter. I am a cowardly run away type.
I'm not allowed a heart transplant. Patients with metastatic cancer are refused such procedures. They're regarded as a 'waste of an organ that could help others live a full life'.
😕