[Closed] Bridleway Closed due to Coronavirus

Nice to see that we are all in this together.

In Scotland (not a bridleway issue as such) - I came across similar today. Large estate posting laminated bollox promoting fearmongering. We marched right in.

Not right, but if he's seeing increased traffic through his fields at lambing time, risk of transmitting virus, however remote, at the busiest time of the year for him, maybe more dogs off leads, I can see his temptation.

All drunken bollocks on my part of he isn't a sheep farmer of course.

https://apps.derbyshire.gov.uk/applications/do-it-now/fault-on-pavement-or-path.asp

Easy to report here. Let us know if they get back to you.

Might have a good reason but can't change the law by sticking a sign up.

I live in the middle of nowhere, and yes right now I'm very lucky to live where I do, but I am sick of the amount of people driving up to go for walks so I don't blame him; travelling to beauty spots in not essential travel.

I wouldn't want people walking all over my land right now regardless of if it was a PRoW or not. TBH Right now isn't the time to go rambling; regardless of how close the PRoW is to your house or not, we are only supposed to go out for the basic necessity of exercise, go for a jog up and down the street.

Also, are you sure its a Bridleway and not a permissive bridleway.

In Scotland (not a bridleway issue as such) – I came across similar today. Large estate posting laminated bollox promoting fearmongering. We marched right in.

Yep - you can completely ignore any such sign in Scotland if there isn't a Section 11 order posted alongside it.

I wouldn’t want people walking all over my land right now regardless of if it was a PRoW or not. TBH Right now isn’t the time to go rambling; regardless of how close the PRoW is to your house or not

I'm not driving anywhere but I'm really getting to know the FPs and BWs near me over the last few days and haven't met any hostility from landowners. I expect that's because they aren't looking at the CV19 outbreak as an excuse to be dicks.

go for a jog up and down the street

It's not for me but if you want to jog up and down my road you'd be welcome.

There has been a similar thing happening here in SW Wales. The new emergency regulations which contain provisions for certain named authorities (The Local Authority, NRW, NT and Nat Parks) to be able to close FPs and BWs where needed have been interpreted as permission for land owners to close paths on their land.

The issue is that landowners don't have powers to close paths at will... so any blocking is illegal. That's all well and good but all this will do is cause kerfuffle. Since the outlawing of driving to start your walk things have been a lot quieter and I had thought that most people had been sticking to the rules and exercising without risk. A fight over access won't help matters at all.

The problem is that here many people are obsessed with stopping visitors coming because they feel that it puts them at more risk. They don't seem to appreciate that the primary reason for cracking down on the excessive visitor numbers we had last week was that it puts the visitors themselves at risk and promotes the uncontrolled spread of C19 and an extra likelihood of A&E admissions. Obviously there is some extra risk of contaminating gates and stuff but if you take appropriate steps you can avoid this risk.

I’m planning on driving a few miles out of town and going for a walk around some paths I know, where I’m lucky to see two or people in a couple of hours walk.
The reason being, it’s difficult to go for a walk anywhere within reach of my house without having to cross the road or walk into the road to avoid other people.
I’m used to getting social isolation when I go for a walk, not having to keep dodging other people.
These are all around where my family’s from, going back 300 years or so, so I’m claiming I’m a local.

Just ignore the sign - it’s not legal! A few others have mentioned it on the local Facebook pages - it’s a popular track for walkers, runners, horses and bikes.

That’s the same farm who used to have a particularly aggressive dog tied up right next to the bridle way where it goes through the yard.

Since the outlawing of driving to start your walk

Citation required.

STAY AT HOME

EXERCISE FROM YOUR DOOR

Or we’ll all have to exercise indoors before you know it.

Take ten minutes to read how in other countries severe restrictions on all outdoors exercise had to be put in place because of, among other reasons, the exceptionalism of people travelling to get outside. Stop thinking you’re special. Stay local or we’ll all be made to stay indoors to stop the spread.

STAY AT HOME

EXERCISE FROM YOUR DOOR

Or we’ll all have to exercise indoors before you know it.

Take ten minutes to read how in other countries severe restrictions on all outdoors exercise had to be put in place because of, among other reasons, the exceptionalism of people travelling to get outside. Stop thinking you’re special. Stay local or we’ll all be made to stay indoors to stop the spread.

This!

Just report to the council, he'll probably get a phone call and be told to remove it at worst.

Artificial closures are the first step to denial of access so need to be logged

go for a jog up and down the street.

Who made you the rule maker. If people want to go for a walk/hike from their door they can, they don't have to just run up and down their street.

You could infect just as many people running up and down your street as you could going on a walk from your door but further afield.

However there are too many idiots not listening and still congregating to honeypots, for example Dovestones reservoir is still full of cars parked up in the car park/laybys nearby, that then leads to people in a small space and not spread out.

A few observations:

Farmers are key workers and like a lot of front line people they are going to be under incredible stressed at the moment. They will also be incredibly worried about catching the virus. You can't switch off livestock if you fall ill.

The ones I know are concerned about picking virus up from gates etc. Think of it this way if everyone who walked past your door touched in, maybe touched your car, touched the super market trolly you were going to use. You had to deal with these things each and every day. You're going to have to clean it down each time. How you going to feel after 2-3weeks?

It's not perfect, there will be liberties taken most people are just trying to get through this.

Ultimately any difference between a farmer who wants to close a path and a mountain biker who drives to get some gnar?

A few observations:

Farmers are key workers and like a lot of front line people they are going to be under incredible stressed at the moment. They will also be incredibly worried about catching the virus. You can’t switch off livestock if you fall ill.

The ones I know are concerned about picking virus up from gates etc. Think of it this way if everyone who walked past your door touched in, maybe touched your car, touched the super market trolly you were going to use. You had to deal with these things each and every day. You’re going to have to clean it down each time. How you going to feel after 2-3weeks?

It’s not perfect, there will be liberties taken most people are just trying to get through this.

Ultimately any difference between a farmer who wants to close a path and a mountain biker who drives to get some gnar?

Spot on! At least some people seem to get it!

The reason being, it’s difficult to go for a walk anywhere within reach of my house without having to cross the road or walk into the road to avoid other people.

I'm sure you'll manage, I live slap bang in the middle of a very busy town, it's fairly easy to get a walk in without getting near anyone, place is dead apart from the odd dog walker or runner.

Landowner may be exhibiting dickish behaviour, or maybe just scared or in vulnerable group, whatever it is, now's not really the time to be an access hero.

Who made you the rule maker. If people want to go for a walk/hike from their door they can

The government advice literally say not to leave your home if you don’t have to and if you have a garden, make use of the space for exercise and fresh air! It’s not a bank holiday or chance to walk all the bridleways you’ve never had time to walk.

I’m planning on driving a few miles out of town

If it's a few miles you can probably walk them. If it's longer, you shouldn't be driving them.

If it’s the farm I’m thinking of Marcus - that farmer has always been a ****! This is great chance for him to be a bigger one.

And for those who don’t know the area - the farm is very close to Belper and is already on a popular walking/cycling route in the area. And can be walked to in 20 mins from the town centre.

I’m planning on driving a few miles out of town and going for a walk around some paths I know, where I’m lucky to see two or people in a couple of hours walk.
The reason being, it’s difficult to go for a walk anywhere within reach of my house without having to cross the road or walk into the road to avoid other people.

This is the attitude that will get us banned from riding anywhere including within reach of our houses. So selfish, why do you think the instructions are different for you? People see you doing it and think " if he can, so can I" and we are back to square one.

It may be "difficult" to walk from your house but clearly not impossible. These are tough times and doing something difficult is required.

Clearly, we went another way yesterday and I’wont be going back up that path for a while. Logged the closure through DCC on line form.

In reality, it’s hard to imagine that catching Coronavirus from a gate / style poses a significantly greater threat to a farmer than the multitude of other diseases / viruses they are exposed to when working with livestock, pesticides, fertiliser, etc.

Artificial closures are the first step to denial of access so need to be logged

This.

There will be an upsurge of this stuff as the Farmer Palmer types throw their weight around.

This is a golden opportunity for them to try to restrict access temporarily and then try to make it permanent later.

With the path in the OP - the answer to the farmer that clearly is fed up of people using the path thru his farmyard is to divert the path? I know a few of these where clearly the old route went thru the farm and the farmer has put in a diversion. thats fair enough in my book

I do have a fear that unscrupulous landowners will use this as an opportunity to restrict access and also to do illegal stuff without anyone watching - grouse moors have been at it already - excessive burning and killing birds of prey

STAY AT HOME

EXERCISE FROM YOUR DOOR

Or we’ll all have to exercise indoors before you know it.

Take ten minutes to read how in other countries severe restrictions on all outdoors exercise had to be put in place because of, among other reasons, the exceptionalism of people travelling to get outside. Stop thinking you’re special. Stay local or we’ll all be made to stay indoors to stop the spread.

This.

now’s not really the time to be an access hero.

This, and a brilliant way to put it. We have entire lifetimes to protect access. We have a few weeks where we need to avoid people, and if someone goes too far in avoiding people then good.

It’s not a bank holiday or chance to walk all the bridleways you’ve never had time to walk.

This.

popular walking/cycling route in the area.

If it's popular people should be avoiding it and it's a good idea to close it, even if doing so it not legally kosher.

if he can, so can I

Yup, if one person in the UK drops a crisp packet it doesn't matter that much. ...but loads of us think "It's ok for just me to do it" and we end up with litter everywhere.

My SiL has two nags in stables. The owner has drawn up a rota so only one person is there at a time, you walk the horses around the field (riding is far too dangerous and could add stress to the NHS) and you don't leave the farm. If they're making that effort, closing the bridleways ought to be a safe and popular policy.

i live in a city. if i put my dogs in the car and drive for five minutes i can be in an area where i will see 2 people instead of ten or twenty, and those 2 people i will see at a much greater distance. which presents the lowest risk?

@outofbreath - Agree with all of that. This one bit of exercise aspect of our current lifestyle is imo being taken a bit too far by some and with a bit too much self entitlement. It'll be gone before we know it. Think of it as the luxury of being able to open your front door and stretch your legs for a few minutes. That's all any of us need. This is not a bank holiday and our collective 'rights' are kerbed to **** already and for a good reason. It's time for us all to wind our collective western middle class 'rights' orientated necks in and knuckle down. If nothing else getting angry about stuff that doesn't really matter is bad for our own personal mental health - look up at the bigger picture.

Nowhere is it limited to once a day for exercise (or anything else, for that matter).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made

Restrictions on movement

(b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;

You have a social responsibility to stay distanced from other people and not leave home unnecessarily, but at the moment you cannot be compelled to return home by the police if you've left to take exercise.

Clearly there's a difference between the guidance and the legislation.

I still think that driving somewhere to ride your bike is taking the piss, though.

So selfish, why do you think the instructions are different for you?

+1, all this I live in a city so need to drive out entitled cobblers, I live in a heavily residential part of south West London yet have managed to walk and cycle from home without any compromises to my safety or that of others. Dog walkers seem to manage fine around here as well, judging by the amount I see when I look out the window.
CZ, I have to cross a road - pathetic! It’s a pandemic, read about all the horror stories the NHS staff and others have put on STW and make some bloody “sacrifices”.

i live in a city. if i put my dogs in the car and drive for five minutes i can be in an area where i will see 2 people instead of ten or twenty, and those 2 people i will see at a much greater distance. which presents the lowest risk?

The latter by far because if we all make up our own rules based on our own risk calculations then millions of people will be making dumb decisions and spreading CV widely.

...and if everyone does what you're doing there wont be 2 people in the area you're visiting there will be thousands.

Just follow the rules.

This is a golden opportunity for them to try to restrict access temporarily and then try to make it permanent later.

That would require legal changes. They may continue to block it - illegally. In which case there are mechanisms to deal with that. What the mountain biking community doesn't want to do is come out of this having added to the anecdotes of not being trusted to behave. Anoy enough members of the Welsh farming community and it'll be bye bye changes to access laws. If the whole virus situation goes long then you might find a national debt of gratitude to farmers. Similar to the one we are going to owe the NHS. There is a possible future where cyclists don't behave enough that riding is taken off the exercise menu - that might also be remembered.

Right now the only game is virus - that's the focus. If bikes are pressed into laundry drying duties for a month or two. That's not a hardship. It's not like they wear out by not being used.

@flaperon

I think it will fall to a test of without reasonable excuse, some may argue that going for a second run or cycle would not constitute a need and we would be down to the usual legal arguments about reasonableness, man on the Clapham omnibus etc.
It is quite woolly compared to the Irish restrictions

i live in a city. if i put my dogs in the car and drive for five minutes i can be in an area where i will see 2 people instead of ten or twenty, and those 2 people i will see at a much greater distance. which presents the lowest risk?

I think we collectively proved last weekend we have a crushingly small imagination and our ability to think of somewhere to go that will be away from the madding crowds is the same as everyone else's. As a society we have to move at the pace of the slowest and impose rules that are easy to follow. You might be able to imagine somewhere to go that no one else will but Billy Braindead can't. The only way to keep folk from congregating at honepots is to tell all of us to 'exercise' from our front doors because unless you live there Acacia Road is not a particularly attractive proposition. This is not an instagramable exercise opportunity - just a chance to stretch your legs and leave the four walls behind - nothing more. And once a day only so the residents of Acacia Road are less likely to bump into each other. I am surprised how hard some people are finding this concept to grasp.

our collective ‘rights’ are kerbed to **** already and for a good reason

That's a really good point! For three weeks or more we are literally in a police state under house arrest! I don't have free access to the road 1cm off my driveway. We don't need to sweat a bridleway at the moment.

(Having said that I *do* approve of reporting it to the LA, because it gets it recorded on the system for the future.)

That would require legal changes.

How would you describe police being empowered to break up gatherings of more than 2 people?

Legal changes are happening. They are rightly happening. But they need removing fully when the time is right. Interpretation of 'right' is not black and white and you can trust that for many landowners the time will never be 'right' because their instinct is always to exclude.

Abuse of emergency legislation has always been a favoured tool of authoritarian conservative operators.

Be careful what you willingly condone once.

Three weeks? Scottish health authorities saying this morning 13 is a possibility.

i live in a city. if i put my dogs in the car and drive for five minutes i can be in an area where i will see 2 people instead of ten or twenty, and those 2 people i will see at a much greater distance. which presents the lowest risk?

Not have dogs in a city? 🤫😂

Three weeks? Scottish health authorities saying this morning 13 is a possibility probability.

IMO.

Agreed.

Nowhere is it limited to once a day for exercise (or anything else, for that matter).

Maybe not in England, but it is in Wales:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/regulation/8/made

8.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

(a)to obtain from any business listed in Part 4 of Schedule 1 —
(i)basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons;
(ii)supplies (including money) for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person;
(b)to take exercise, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">no more than once a day</span>, either alone or with other members of the household;

(my emphasis)

Rule 1 applies in any case.

Haven't the NHS stated that they want people to get exercise as it strengthens the immune system and helps to fight the virus? A quick "stretch your legs" from the front door is not going to help significantly with this - more for mental health. This is going to go on to, most likely, June and stopping your exercise for this length of time is going to be counter-productive.

Also found this article which I found interesting - debunks the still common belief that endurance training suppresses the immune system (and I'm NOT saying we should all be training at max - this is not a good idea at the moment for many other reasons including injury/ heart attacks etc). Just interesting.

A quick “stretch your legs” from the front door is not going to help significantly with this

I suspect for the majority of the population it is.

Haven’t the NHS stated that they want people to get exercise as it strengthens the immune system and helps to fight the virus?

Not that I have seen. You’ll have to provide a link to that or it’s just social media fake news.

Scotland is once a day as well I am sure - and no driving to exercise but no limit on how long the walk or cycle is

Staying at home
You should only leave the house for very limited purposes, for example:

daily exercise, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household

Haven’t the NHS stated that they want people to get exercise as it strengthens the immune system and helps to fight the virus? A quick “stretch your legs” from the front door is not going to help significantly with this – more for mental health. This is going to go on to, most likely, June and stopping your exercise for this length of time is going to be counter-productive.

Maintaining a healthy weight is also important - figures suggest overweight/obese people are at greater risk.

Haven’t the NHS stated that they want people to get exercise as it strengthens the immune system and helps to fight the virus?

Not that I have seen. You’ll have to provide a link to that or it’s just social media fake news

I haven't seen an official bulletin from the NHS or .gov but it has been on the news and mentioned by a few experts.

eg:
Coronavirus: Stay fit to fight the virus, say medics

Scotland is once a day as well I am sure – and no driving to exercise but no limit on how long the walk or cycle is

Yeah, we're back to the difference between Guidance and Law.

Why are people so desperate to make up their own rules and then judge others for not sticking to them?

If you're feeling anxious about the current situation, and I don't blame you, get off the internet and get some fresh air and exercise in a responsible manner.

And yes it might make more sense to drive for you, but it's really best not to right now. And I think you know that.

Scottish SI looks the same wording as the England version re need to take exercise

Dr Jenny Harries asked us to do so, here:
Mental health impact of social distancing
Jenny Harries was asked about the impact on people’s health from being asked to stay at home. She said this is something they are concerned about and those being told to isolate for 12 weeks are given mental health advice in the letters they are receiving. She encouraged everyone to make the most of the extra time not commuting to exercise.

I know there is a lot of fake news out there but you have to be living with your head in the sans not to have been aware that we are being encouraged to exercise.

Yep – you can completely ignore any such sign in Scotland if there isn’t a Section 11 order posted alongside it.

Technically I think any land manager that wanted to, could argue s6(d) of the LR(S)A could apply because there is another restriction in place, and that restriction says people cannot leave their house without a reasonable excuse (the Scottish Coronavirus regulations).

Poly - but they also say daily exercise is allowable and indeed recommended and includes going for a walk and cycle. I guess it would need to be tested in court.

@poly I see where you are coming from but as exercise is currently allowed (encouraged) and it can be done from home, I don't see that as standing up.

I've already seen photos of "no entry" signs in the Pentlands. These are illegal. Scotways have been informed. It's like F&M all over again.

With the path in the OP – the answer to the farmer that clearly is fed up of people using the path thru his farmyard is to divert the path?

It's not a quick process, however if he offered up an alternative that was well signed and logical and accessible I'm sure people would use it as a desireline.

After F and M I remember landowners making the demand to retain the laws excluding the public from RoW. Anyone for the Battle of Kinder Scout mk 2?

Legal changes are happening. They are rightly happening. But they need removing fully when the time is right. Interpretation of ‘right’ is not black and white and you can trust that for many landowners the time will never be ‘right’ because their instinct is always to exclude.

Abuse of emergency legislation has always been a favoured tool of authoritarian conservative operators.

Be careful what you willingly condone once.

We're looking at different laws - path blocking and removal is under access legislation. For England no change, Scotland no change but Wales has made provisions. In the various ways this can progress - the one where we broadly follow the rules and come out with inconvenience is a better option. The one where they dramatically curtail access and criminalise trespass is not one we want to see.

Stick or twist - how are the gamblers feeling on this one?

I know there is a lot of fake news out there but you have to be living with your head in the sans not to have been aware that we are being encouraged to exercise.

That is a very good point. This is, for most people, a head game. There is a need to manage stress levels.

I'm going to make an observation - not a targeted one:

Generally people have a shxt once a day; just because you have to dump doesn't justify hoarding bog rolls.

A second observation:

It's not like in the entire history of mountain biking people have never suddenly had to stop riding for a period. Look upon it as walking a mile in the shoes of someone who has a major injury, a young family, lost their job and doesnt have buttons to do anything...

Mentally, it's about not popping but also don't take the pxss. Imagine how thrilled people will be if repeated transgression turns what's meant to be a cocoon into a cell. Then the pressure cooking will really ramp up.

Agreed dannyh.

Anybody who thinks this is not going to last 12 weeks is smoking dope !!!!

From day 1 WRT the elderly, vulnerable etc it's been stay indoors for 12 weeks. It's not rocket science is It? It will be 12 weeks for all of us.

The difference is if we don't start to do as asked, it will be 12 weeks indoors and nothing outside except food, medication and/or work.