[Closed] Brexit - when does the good stuff start?

What are the up sides? There must be some benefit to normal everyday folk,

All the unemployed True Englishmen will instantly be endowed with Gainful Employement after its previous owner has been deported. After all, those foreigners have been coming here for years and Taking Our Jobs.

Also, the NHS will instantly be wonderful.

And "we'll" have "control" again, whatever that actually even meant in the first place.

My mate asked this question on the government's "are you ready?" website the day it launched.

He's still awaiting an answer

https://twitter.com/gerrylynch/status/918422922913607685?s=09

When the riots & looting start I'm totally getting a 60inch LED TV

Onza - you should send your question to 'Ask Nigel'.

I've been wondering this for some time now.

I keep hearing loads of negative predictions, many of which I can see as possibilities but have yet to hear any vaguely convincing positive predictions that stand up to any challenge.

thats because there are no upsides.

Some new jobs for life are being created, the border agency is recruiting, as is the civil service - there's going to be a lot of new red tape for government employees to manage over the next decade. Might have to cut back on NHS a bit to pay for it but less chance of that nasty Spanish flu coming over here so should be ok.

When the riots & looting start I’m totally getting a 60inch LED TV

I'm going full white Nike's and some Joggers...

You'll be able to keep any Bass you catch as long as theyr'e over the minimum size limit.

The only potential light at the end of the tunnel, is that normal people, even though they've done it in the most stupid way possible, are at last beginning to wake up to the fact they've been screwed over for decades. It will also hopefully put a rocket up the backsides of politicians across the spectrum who loaded the fallout from the 2008 crash on the general population whilst allowing the perpetrators to carry on as normal.

Of course this is countered by the threat of nationalist populism. It's going to take a concerted effort of all politicians and others who are against rightwing populism to present more of a united front against the likes of Farage and Johnson. So far the signs are not good on this front. Political opportunism still reigns supreme, egos are being exercised and personal interests and career ambitions are at the forefront. I have no idea what will happen, but think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Or maybe we are in the midst of a more long term and widespread collapse? If that's the case then it's pointless worrying about it as we're all ******.

I keep hearing loads of negative predictions, many of which I can see as possibilities but have yet to hear any vaguely convincing positive predictions that stand up to any challenge.

The only narratives I still see with any sort of regularity these days are either,

a) ephemeral gubbins about freedom / sovereignty / taking back control, or

b) the will of the people, democracy.

Everything else has long since disappeared, but these in themselves are difficult to argue against. Outright lies like the Lisbon Treaty 2022 can be readily disproven (though these days I've given up and just say "project fear," what's good for the goose and all that) but feelings are harder to counter. People don't like the idea of the EU, don't like the thought that we're not being masters of our own destiny; whether this has any bearing in reality is an irrelevance to these people, they just don't like it. We laugh about blue passports but it's exactly that sort of petty nonsense which is important to people.

Oh yeah, dazh will get the anarchy he's been pining for for years, I'd forgotten about that. Chewkw will have rubbed himself raw after the collapse an' all.

We an only hope that the "Brexit dividend" is disproportionately weighed towards those demographics and regions that voted for brexit.

Well I for one won't have any Bally nosey pencil pushers looking into my offshore tax affairs.

dazh will get the anarchy he’s been pining for for years

Being intersted in and supportive of the anarchist principles of greater freedom, more equality, less hierarchy, accountable 'authority', and more effective democracy does not translate into wanting 'anarchy'. Anarchy, in the chaotic sense of the word, and anarchism are not the same things. Go do some reading....

https://www.seesharppress.com/anarchismwhatis.html

We'll all be better off.

No more cheap labour so all employers will pay more

Raw milk will be back

We can feed our food waste to pigs again

Glass milk bottles

NHS will recieve more funding

We can make our own meds

We can produce our own food.

Just some of what I’ve learnt this week

Positives:

Some very rich people will become exponentially more rich, so they'll see that as a benefit. Won't help your "normal everyday folk" of course, but a few dead benefits scroungers is a small price to pay.

A complete collapse of the Tory party seems likely, and I for one won't shed a tear there. It could even lead to reform of government, maybe a break away from the two-party-in-all-but-name system we've seen for decades. Getting rid of FPTP might be an option?

The exchange rate going down the toilet will be great for holidaymakers coming here (if anyone would want to) and for non-EU immigrants-to-be.

Reality hitting home will finally put an end to the "project fear" / we won you lost shut up and get over it narrative. Maybe a medicine shortage and food rationing is exactly what's needed to heal the divide, the country coming together like we did in 1945. They'll enjoy that.

The removal of the EU27 from our fishing waters will be fantastic for Chinese fishermen, for about a fortnight whilst there's still some fish left in there anyway.

A fuel crisis would be great for the environment. And forcing more people onto bicycles might mean less anti-bike road rage from drivers.

We'll have a lot more green space we could use for recreational areas with all the former farmland freed up. No more farting cows would be a net benefit to the environment also.

Whoever buys the NHS might actually put some money into it. TrumpCare™ anyone?

Boris going to jail?

Joking aside in this and from some Leavers I know and from what you can glean online I think this is the perception of what good stuff will happen.

1 We will trade more with the rest of the world making better deals as we aren't tied to the EU.

2 The US will become a greater ally and Trump is very UK friendly, and anti EU so will be inclined to help us out.

3 Far less immigration. Huge win.

4 Relief on NHS due to lowering immigration.

5 Relief on housing due to Les immigration.

6 More jobs due to cutting off cheap labour from abroad.

7 Seeing less foreign people in their communities in general.

I DON'T AGREE WITH ONE WORD OF THOSE POINTS ABOVE BUT THEY ARE GENUINELY HELD BELIEVES OF MANY.

Pretty scary but they are the positives to many Leavers.

4 Relief on NHS due to lowering immigration.

Of course countered by the loss of excellent EU27 staff, who were recruited to make up for shortfalls in UK-trained staff.

I'd call it a net loss.

Totally agree sooty. My partner works in the NHS and is terrified by the effects of Brexit.

I DON’T AGREE WITH ONE WORD OF THOSE POINTS ABOVE BUT THEY ARE GENUINELY HELD BELIEVES OF MANY.

And that's what's frustrating about the whole thing. Half of it isn't true and in fact is likely to have the opposite effect (project fear, we're not listening) and the other half is just racism.

If they want those things, brexit is not the solution.

but a few dead benefits scroungers is a small price to pay.

This place is getting insane. What evidence in particular led you to that statement?

'Project fear' will have to come to an end. Replaced by 'Operation we bloody told you so'.

I need a new passport in January.
A Blue one.
😎

What do we have to look forward to?

Our re-accession to the EU in about 2035

What do we have to look forward to?

Our re-accession to the EU in about 2021

If we ever actually leave that is.

I've heard the following:-

1) VAT rate dropped (this will never happen)

2) Less red tape, more business growth (not convinced)

3) More national pride, we will win the world cup again

4) We will have got on with it and will come together (whatever that means)

5) We will not be enlisted into the EU army (I'm too old so didn't care anyway)

6) Johnny Foreigner will have had it stuck up him and he doesn't like that

7) Tourism industry will boom with staycations

You mean there won’t be £350 million a week extra for the NHS?

I definitely recall seeing something about that on the side of a bus

What do we have to look forward to?

Not long until the dissolution of the United Kingdom.

This place is getting insane. What evidence in particular led you to that statement?

You do realise that I'm not expressing my opinions there? I've seen "it's a price worth paying" bookending all manner of toxic shit.

Case in point,

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/no-deal-brexit-on-bbc-breakfast-1-6279075

"So you rely on insulin?" asked the reporter - witnessing the pair disagreeing.

"Because we voted to leave, we didn't vote for a deal, we didn't vote for anything, we voted to leave Europe," he told the BBC. "And that's all we want right, we're either a democracy or we're not".

Turkeys, Christmas? Amazing.

You mean there won’t be £350 million a week extra for the NHS?

BIL is a finance director for an NHS trust.

He has written to both his boss and local Tory MP asking for when the payments will arrive so he knows to spend it carefully...

I need a new passport in January.
A Blue one

That's a point; mine expires in November. Wonder what colour the new one will be?

Oh yeah, dazh will get the anarchy he’s been pining for for years, I’d forgotten about that. Chewkw will have rubbed himself raw after the collapse an’ all.

Eh? Raw about what? Anarchy? Bureaucracy? Democracy? 😀
If "... collapse an' all ..." then so be it what is there to worry about coz that is the nature of things. You can run amok if you wish but I ain't.

On a separate climate issue why are the climate protestors protesting in the west about climate? There is "no" (far less) more virgin forest in the West apart from certain countries so why protest here? 😀

Shouldn't they be protesting in say Indonesia, Brazil or countries (their virgin forest is much more important for the world) that openly burnt down their virgin forest? Those are the countries with good natural carbon capture is it not? 🤔

Can someone tell me the issue with an EU army? UK troops are under foreign control in NATO.

Can someone tell me the issue with an EU army? UK troops are under foreign control in NATO.

EU just want to create an alternative version to NATO etc ... I see them coming ... 😄

Please don't bait The Troll.

I’ve saved up and bought a chest freezer, a generator that can run on on turnips and hedge twigs, i’ve Driven over a couple of deer and chucked them in. And i’ve Got about a dozen tins of chopped tomatoes in my buried stash.

Still haven’t had any confirmation of when my free-range sunny upland Unicorn is arriving, though. FFS.

It's a little known fact that the laws in England against cycling on footpaths are actually the result of an EU directive and the Lisbon treaty.

After Brexit, we will be able to cycle on any footpath we want! This is genuinely true(*) !

I have already started doing this, since as far as I'm concerned, we already left on the 30th March. Anytime any walkers - traitorous remoaners - complain I let them know how I feel about their anti-democractic ways.

I ran into someone the other day who was gammony with rage that I should dare to exercise my English right to cycle where I choose, without having to bow and scrape to the EUSSR.

"17.4 million people voted to let me cycle on footpaths" I yelled at him as I sped past at 20mph.

(*) May not be genuinely true.

We’ll all be better off.

No more cheap labour so all employers will pay more

Raw milk will be back

We can feed our food waste to pigs again

Glass milk bottles

NHS will recieve more funding

We can make our own meds

We can produce our own food.

Just some of what I’ve learnt this week

Some old woman phoned James O’Brien sometime ago. One of her plus points to Brexit was we’ll be able to wrap our fish and chips in old newspapers again. Apparently the EU banned that. I don’t have the energy to fact check this nonsense any more

Re. Army/ EU army: there isn’t one. There is a vague ententes cordiale about commitment ratios for Infantry, and comms.

Special Services are vaguely in touch with each other, but that’s a very aloof connection. The SAS/SBS are generically up for comms with the French, and active allegiance with the Scandinavian Soecials... apart from that, the other nations can’t be trusted.

@bodgy

You need to catch your own unicorn. There will be herds of them sweeping majestically along the M1 to bring sunshine, rainbows and unimaginable wealth to areas that voted for them.

But it's not that easy because you have to choose between the ones with the gold or platinum plated horns or the ones that crap out gold bars and urinate pure crude oil. If you have a more socialist leaning I understand that benevolent dragons will be breathing out an atomised multi medicine that will cure all disease and give you fresh breath. They will be going East West from Dover (where they will have dropped off some imported food) along the M20, M25 south and then along the M4 to Cardiff where they'll be welcomed to their ancestral home.

Can someone tell me the issue with an EU army?

Something fictional about mandatory conscription for 16-24 year olds, I believe.

As anti-EU arguments go it's an odd one. If 27 countries on our doorstep were planning on amassing a huge collective army, surely we'd want to be a part of that rather than have it potentially against us (and y'know, have the power of veto if we thought it was a bad idea). If there was a shred of truth in it it'd be one of the most compelling reasons not to leave that I could think of.

The benefit for me is when the remoaners finally STFU but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Can someone tell me the issue with an EU army?

Well we'd never have had the victory of Dunkirk if our army had been run by Germans would we?

We'd never have beaten napoleon if we had to rely on foreign commanders would we?

In honesty the issue I think is a perceived lack of [edit: national not armed forces] autonomy and belief we still need an independent national standing army where as the EU army would, ultimately, replace national armies. NATO is a command structure really, forces in NATO are still the forces of their home country and, NATO involvement doesn't necessarily mean national involvement. Look at operations over Kosovo Syria and Libya, an EU army would be joint and obligated deployment which is a problem.

I don't personally think we need a standing army but, given the political implications of deployment of one, I'd certainly not advocate releasing decisions over its deployment to people who may not share your national interest - and if it needed unanimous approval for deployment there's no point having it as it'll be nothing but a budget drain that's never deployed.

Ultimately the EU army only really works with at least a federalised EU (something of which I am in favour vs the current state of affairs, though I'd go further) so long as people are interested in lines on maps though its a bad idea but it's a non starter for exactly that reason. It's very much "project fear" like Turkish membership and so on.

One of her plus points to Brexit was we’ll be able to wrap our fish and chips in old newspapers again. Apparently the EU banned that. I don’t have the energy to fact check this nonsense any more

Save you the bother, I already have. We haven't wrapped our fish and chips directly in newspaper in our lifetimes, it was stopped with an English law covering general food hygiene* passed in like the late 1800s. We used to use newspaper to wrap food after that but it was an outer wrapping over food-grade paper and the non-stick stuff that everything always sticks to.

Anyone telling you they remember chips served solely in newspaper and they "don't taste the same any more" is lying misremembering.

Plus, in any case, **** all to do with the EU.

(* - man, that's a hard word to spell.)

'ahh no, I only wanted bendy bannanas and now there's this chaotic inferno of hate. Ahh well at least the bananas are all bendy again......like they always ****ing were.'

The benefit for me is when the remoaners finally STFU but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

Opposition is a cornerstone of UK parliamentary democracy and attempting to silence that is the work of a dictatorship. If you hate democracy so much why don't you move to Russia?

A good friend of mine voted Brexit to prevent his two (primary school aged) boys being conscripted into the EU army.

The penny seems to have dropped at long last, but bloody hellfire.....🤦

The benefit for me is when the remoaners finally STFU but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

But, hey, if we've got a leaver here, why not tell us of all the benefits we can look forward to? This is your perfect chance to educate us, if I understood how we'll be better off then I'd support brexit myeslf.

We haven’t wrapped our fish and chips directly in newspaper in our lifetimes, it was stopped with an English law covering general food hygiene* passed in like the late 1800s

Whilst I've no doubt that it is indepently passed UK law not EU derived, c19th sounds very unlikely as dates go for that given what was legal with food and not known about general food safety at the time. Certainly I remember news print transferring onto fish and chips as a child and I'm not that old.

The law you're referring to will likely be the Sale of Food and Drugs Act 1875 but it doesn't actually have anything to do with containers or packaging. It makes it illegal to amongst other things, pass off and put harmful additives (eg lead) into food, to dye (rotting) meat to make it look fresh and so on, all of which were common practice.

Probably the statute which finally brought the practice to an end was the Food Safety Act 1990 which still doesn't expressly forbid newspaper but you'd never have managed to prove your newspaper meets the requirements of law (to be hygienic) if required to do so. The big thing with the food safety act was it became statute law, so guilty until proven innocent, that you had to do things which were safe, so unless you could prove your newspaper was safe and hygienic your guilty. Until then it was criminal law which made it illegal to do things which were dangerous, so unless your news paper was provably bad, you were fine.

The benefit for me is when the remoaners finally STFU but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

If that's the best benefit of Brexit is it any wonder Remainers are unhappy?

More seriously if there are all these sunlit upland opportunities why have the leaders of Brexit done little more than spout lazy tropes and wooly promises while belittling the concerns of Remainers and blaming them when things don't go their way rather than engaging with them and carrying them on the journey.

Leaving the EU is a massive change management project. If we put something new in at work and I'm responsible for it then it's my job to seek out the doubters, the concerned and the resistant and not to pillory them or blame them because it doesn't work or call them names.

My job is to engage with them, to help them see the benefits in a way that appeals to their desires and objectives and to bring them on the journey.

I guarantee that if I behave like a weapons grade **** about it that I'll get more resistance, more complaints and low compliance.

There's a lot of pissed off people out there who are seeing large parts of their lives turned upside down and inside out and leaders and others representing the "winners" are behaving abysmally. Instead of trying to carry the disaffected and show them the benefits they are blaming them for their **** ups, calling them names and totally ignoring their concerns.

This is part of why many Remainers are so utterly browned off.

The law you’re referring to will likely be the Sale of Food and Drugs Act 1875 but it doesn’t actually have anything to do with containers or packaging. It makes it illegal to amongst other things, pass off and put harmful additives (eg lead) into food, to dye (rotting) meat to make it look fresh and so on, all of which were common practice.

... and ink contamination from newsprint, no?

Certainly I remember news print transferring onto fish and chips as a child and I’m not that old.

Are you certain?

I remember chips wrapped in newspaper, but never directly wrapped in newspaper, and I was born in 1972 (and have eaten a LOT of chips!)

No one must have told chip shop up here about the change until the 80s - 90s as I definitely remember it’s not a false memory at all. They didn’t taste better but the beef dripping soaked paper and ink stuck to them was quite pleasant.

The good thing will be the dissolution of the UK.

Instead of trying to carry the disaffected and show them the benefits they are blaming them for their **** ups, calling them names and totally ignoring their concerns.

This is part of why many Remainers are so utterly browned off.

And that works both ways.

Leave are pissed off because they've felt for years that their concerns have been ignored. Remain are pissed off because they've been told that their concerns no longer matter because they "lost." So three years on we're now all pissed off, and the powers that be are playing silly bastards rather than actually addressing any of the issues raised by either side of the argument.

All hail PM Swinson and the revoking of A50... Make it so!

Let this lunacy end, I'm really not sure I can mentally cope with another ~10 years of this testicles while worse deals are made than we already have as part of the EU, nevermind the personal financial crippling.

This is why many Remainers are so utterly pissed off.

By and large we're peeved because we're looking for sensible answers to an emotional question. We can't get them and that annoys us. You may as well ask why someone is in love with someone who you think is a tool, or a fundamentalist Christian to tell you why Eden not Darwin. You'll not get an answer you like, you'll not get an answer you understand and largely you'll just piss your self off trying.

Leaving the EU isn't about it being a good idea, it's about the fact people want to do it, they feel like they want it, they're passionate about it. Remaining is about sensible, practical and pragmatic but, until 4 years ago almost no one was actually excited about being in the EU, no one was passionate about it and for the most part we're still not, we're just incensed by how stupid leaving it is. Remain is painting your walls beige, it's the sensible choice but by gods it's dull. Painting them pink on the other hand (preferably empire pink) is utterly foolish and yet makes the people who do it happy.

… and ink contamination from newsprint, no?

A) the ink would have to be known to be injurious to health, it wasn't (known to be at least)
B) even if it was, the 1875 act prohibited deliberately mixing them into food and drugs, contamination was a non issue. (for comparison commercially pulling drinking water directly from the Thames only became illegal in 1852 and (water companies were given 3 years to stop) after it was proven the sewage and the like in the water was getting back into supply

With my <mod> hat on here for a minute,

I appreciate that I've been guilty here too, but if this thread wanders too far off topic into a rehash of That Thread then we'll have to close it. Can we not do that please.

Cheers.

</mod>

@Cougar

Yes, I would agree with that on a subjective level, and that's what features most to many people.

On a more objective level the UK has fought for and had a series of carve-outs that deal with some (not all) of the leave camp's concerns but we've failed to really communicate that and the trading benefits, preferring to blame the EU for any unpopular UK political decision and then generally taking credit for the good bits.

As you say we've not historically really tackled the concerns of the Euro-sceptics whether that's by acting on them or by better communicating why those concerns were not valid or were offset by other benefits.

Sorry just seen the post above - I shall stay on topic going forward.

Blue passports, sure they'll look lovely 🙂

@dangeourbrain Hmm. Further reading in order then, I'll recheck. Ta.

@garage-dweller Exactly. No arguments with any of that. Aside from the passports.

Are we still getting get our Brexit 50ps? Back in August there was talk of them being ready for October 31st when we finally leave. But I've not seen any news recently of how they are getting on with that plan. How long does it take to mint a new coin? Would they have started already, or is it something they could do after the 17th of October when Boris comes back from the EU Summit with his deal?

Brexit 50ps seem like the best thing to come out of this whole debacle.

Is that with 52 on one side and 48 on the other? 😉

It's already happening
On a close to home note- It's kept the weirdo's busy in the ref thread :o)
Political reform across Europe
Great Britain is becoming teeny tiny Britain
Less income for most
Wake up call for many

Killfile. Get your killfile.

You'll be glad of it in three...two...one...

No more cheap labour so all employers will pay more

And pass the extra costs onto the end consumer. Slight lack of joined up thinking there I think

Its been said Brexit in the thread but I agree with it.

It's not about any benefit now. If you tell the true believers they will be poorer etc. that's now immaterial.

Where a No Deal was once seemingly just utterly impossible and consisted Project Fear by Remainers... It's not actually PREFERRED by many Leavers.

Basically Boris could now stand up and announce that the country will be poorer, that there will be food and fuel shortages, that jobs will suffer but should we still get on with it!?

The predominate answer would still be to get on with it.

England (mainly) has a psychological disorder but there is no one to section it or give it meds.

So yeah, the benefits of Brexit, even if there were any, is utterly unimportant now. Mad eh?

Hopefully boris will lose his appeal.
Then the good stuff can start.

We’d never have beaten napoleon if we had to rely on foreign commanders would we?

I see what you did there, and I approve.

Will we be able to get rid of the foreign St George bit on the flag and come up with a proper symbol for England?

Brexit will be disruptive to the economy.

Properly managed, that could be minimised, and the advantages of being on our own maximised.

Change is not necessarily bad.

But how the hell did it end up such a pantomime run by clowns? It's like handing the controls of a F1 car to a learner driver at 200mph.

Maybe the good thing to come out of it will be a catharsis in the political system in the UK which will create a demand for proper democracy and the sweeping away of the anarchic structures of the anti-democratic Establishment.

OTH pigs might fly...

One of her plus points to Brexit was we’ll be able to wrap our fish and chips in old newspapers again.

Missed the boat there unfortunately. With newspapers sales are declining, there won't be enough to go round. She'll have to somehow wrap her chips in the Side-bar of Shame.

Departing Poles will be replaced by arrivals from Calais

https://www.news.com.au/national/uk-flags-visa-plan-in-australia-prebrexit-trade-talks/news-story/6bb11da74492918e3acaf09369eda041

as much crocodile and kangaroo meat as your dog can eat and a revolving washing line (Hills Hoist) in every UK back yard, 3rd hand Juicy Lucy campers.....and people from Stoke on Trent can leave the Weatherspoons behind and come and work in Australia....pretty soon its a deal that will take only months...I've just cancelled reapplying for my visa

[i]Britain wants a freedom of movement deal with Australia to allow people to live and work in both countries without a visa.
The UK's Trade Secretary Liz Truss put the plan back on the agenda today as she held pre-Brexit trade talks with Australian Trade Minister Simon Birmingham in Canberra.[/i]

hold on apparently the Aus' government is playing negotiating games...

[i]It comes after Prime Minister Scott Morrison indicated last month he was not open to a New Zealand-style agreement with Britain.[/i]

Properly managed, that could be minimised, and the advantages of being on our own maximised

What are these advantages and how can they be maximised?