You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Yes, this thread should be closed and apologies Mods but it will be nice to link back to over the years to come.
Brexit is owned by the Tories. Let's never get deflected by that. A policy come about purely to stop infighting within their own party led to this.
Anyone that voted for it has zero right to complain about the negatives from this point on, they "knew what they are voting for".
I will never be part of some "coming together" as Brexit continues to tear the Union and families apart.
Yes, I'm f*cking annoyed.
Time devours all though, even this stupidity.
#back to 1973 #own it.
(In before the banhammer)
100% agree.
Will never forgive or forget.
I have a family member who is an extremely rich retired city banker and Tory till he dies who thinks this is the most stupid thing the country has done..
I am not Tory or particularly rich but it is one of the few things we have agreed on.
It's owned by a helluva lot more than just the Tory party, not least the 40 years of fabricated lies in the papers
And it won't be paid for, for decades yet
I'm with you, it's shite. Apparently I'm part of the demographic that voted for it too and yet I and none of my peers did. Odd that.
Will never forgive or forget.
This, I'm likewise very angry. The small mindedness and short termism of this is beyond belief.
Filled in my first customs declaration to send a pair of shoes to Son2 who is back in Ireland at uni. Had to remove the food (chocolate and coffee). Four forms. Complete pain. Might now be true for Northern Ireland too.
History will judge this action poorly.
I'd like to burn something down. But sadly can accept that the signs were there a long time ago and were ignored. So I'm angry with both sides.
Agreed, utterly bobbins and a massive mistake.
It’s owned by a helluva lot more than just the Tory party, not least the 40 years of fabricated lies in the papers
And it won’t be paid for, for decades yet
Meh, I have to agree with the OP TBH.
The "debate" was basically the Tory party trying to put their biggest point of internal division to bed once and for all.
Without the vote and leave result, the red tops would still have kept on about EU compliance for bendy bananas and the broadsheets would be whining about city over-regulations by Brussels, but most of the nation wouldn't have paid them any mind...
Most people didn't really care and/or understand why being in or out of the EU mattered TBH, not until Dom started attaching jingoistic dog whistles to the topic, the press helped, but only in earnest after some swivel-eyed Tory's retained Dom's services...
The EU was always a Tory "problem", and Brexit wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the Tory party. They are the route cause...
Oh I wish for a European passport. ****ing morons.
In years to come Corona virus will be remembered for bringing the world to its knees. It'll be remembered kindly compared to the Brexit car crash in the UN-UK.
Touché
Oh I wish my kids had European passports.
Its the biggest mistake we've made for a generation and my kids will be paying for it in some way for thier entire lives.
Only comfort tonight is that this is when the reality of what we've done will start to bite and the con men that sold all these lies will spend the years between now and the near inevitable rejoin referendum on the defensive as their impossible fantasy unravels.
The long road back starts here.
Agree with pretty much everything posted above. But without wishing to sound like a gammon, would Europe have us back and under what provisos? Just thinking that if we went back with our tail between our legs we'd get a crap deal, mostly as a warning to other EU members to show what happens if you leave and want to come back in.
Dont just blame the conservatives.
It's a **** up deal wise but the dream had plenty of red in it too.
Binary policies and politics are what's ****ed us all over.
Yes, this will get locked.
I agree 100% with the OP..
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I will never forgive the harm that has been done to this country and the prospects for my kids by the jingoistic froth that has been whipped up by a bunch of self-seeking, narrow minded, xenophobic bigots and their minions in the populist press. May they all rot in hell, together with the mindless saps that voted for it.</span>
Happy New Year :-/
If you live in England and are pissed off with Brexit, get on to your MP to chuck those whingeing subsidy sucking Scots out of the Union.
Then come and live in Scotland. You'd be welcome. 🙂
It happened! Get over it and move on!
It happened! Get over it and move on!
“It” hasn’t even started yet.
The land of milk and honey turns out to be the land of tap water and aspartame. You enjoy it - if it’s what you voted for.
I will always regret what we have lost.
Hmmm. I'm not certain that you can blame the voices of, what, 17.4m people solely on the internal machinations of the Tory party. We could blame their choice on the tabloids, but that's a dangerous path to go down: the people can't be trusted to make democratic decisions for themselves, or to work out what the truth is, so we should restrict the information that they receive and make those decisions for them?
I think it was a spectacularly stupid decision, but I thought that of the election of Cameron with a majority - which was what precipitated the whole referendum.
What's really disappointing me at the moment is that the left of British politics seems to be mostly stuck in hand-wringing and complaining - rather than embracing what has been inevitable for at least three years now, and painting a picture of what a progressive, fair, environmentally sensitive UK could look like, freed from the more negative aspects of European Union: the corporatism and the neo-liberalism. For all the good that the EU represented, let's not forget that the organisation essentially imposed an idealogical austerity on the Greek people in direct convention of *their* democratic voice (and not in a referendum, either) when they explicitly and overwhelmingly chose a government that had pledged to default on their debts (mostly to German banks).
I don't think we'll be allowed to forget it. The 1st (of many, one assumes) anniversary is only a month away.
Regardless of who started it, it will always be Johnson who 'got it done'. Wether he continues to publicise this will remain to be seen.
Johnson was the credible figurehead who got the Leave campaign over the line. Without him, the Leave campaign was just fruitcake Farage, and wouldn't have got the support it needed.
So he not only 'got it done', he led us there in the first place. At least he will go down in history being judged on his promises, and what he actually delivered, rather than it being split between administrations and merely making the best of a previous parties actions.
If we ever return to the EU, no doubt it will be as a much smaller fish and paying full membership rather than the big membership discount we used to enjoy...and without the Schengen agreement giving us some control over our border. I don't think it'll ever happen.
Anyone who says 'it's happened, get over it.' or any other variation on the theme, needs to be reminded of the shit-fest they voted for on a regular basis.
17.4 mill voted for it, but nearly 17 mill didn't, and a lot of people who can now vote or will be able to vote in coming years would have voted against it, and have had their future as Europeans stolen from them.
So no, we won't forget it and move on.
We. Will. Remind. You. Of. It. Forever.
The German historian Helene Von Bismarck sums it up best for me;
“ British populism is a political method, not an ideology, and it does not become redundant with Brexit,” she said.
Von Bismarck identified two key elements in this method: an emotionalisation and over-simplification of highly complex issues, such as Brexit, the Covid pandemic or migration, and a reliance on bogeymen or enemies at home and abroad.
“Populists depend on enemies, real or imagined, to legitimise their actions and deflect from their own shortcomings,” she said. If the EU has been the “enemy abroad” since 2016, it will steadily be replaced by “enemies within”: MPs, civil servants, judges, lawyers, experts, the BBC.”
Anyone who says ‘it’s happened, get over it.’ or any other variation on the theme, needs to be reminded of the shit-fest they voted for on a regular basis.
Its possible to believe that it is time to move forward without having voted for it. Dwelling on the past is what got us into this mess. IMO we need to look for ways to move on. I'm happy to see the blame pointed at the Tories. A new, left leaning government would be a significant step forward, but how do we get there?
By all means have a shout and rant but no one that voted for it is likely to read it here, and if they do they probably won't care.
The Tories were responsible for the disastrous handling of the negotiations.
But people of all parties voted for it, due in large part to ignorance, and ordinary people feeling abandoned by "the system", and successive UK governments being happy to deflect their own failings into the EU.
The reasons behind the vote rest on both parties for failing to address any of that, from Thatcher onwards.
I think a major part of the problem was that the EU was never particularly popular in the UK. If you look at the start of the EU thread, & this is true of other threads in other forums, it starts with ‘I’m pretty ambivalent about the EU, but of course it would be stupid to leave it.’ It is only later, and especially after the referendum result, that people suddenly begin to care. But you’d be hard pushed to make a case for the UK population being enthusiastic about membership & a lot of the reason why this debacle happened stems from that.
It happened! Get over it and move on!
No chance, not me - I'll be here to remind people for the rest of my life. 😉
Four years down the tracks and I still can't believe the British public can be so f***in' stupid. Are we really surrounded by idiots ? It seems so.
How totally and utterly depressing.
But you’d be hard pushed to make a case for the UK population being enthusiastic about membership & a lot of the reason why this debacle happened stems from that.
Fair, issue is show me the evidence people were told of the benefits? Then throw in people being told they could have their cake and eat it.
freed from the more negative aspects of European Union: the corporatism and the neo-liberalism
Riddle me this… as an EU member, why did the UK embrace “corporatism” and “neo-liberalism” more than many other EU countries? Why, and how, does our “freedom” from EU cooperation result in changing this?
people of all parties voted for it, due in large part to ignorance, and ordinary people feeling abandoned by “the system”, and successive UK governments being happy to deflect their own failings into the EU.
The reasons behind the vote rest on both parties for failing to address any of that, from Thatcher onwards.
This
successive UK governments & their official opposition being happy to deflect their own failings into the EU
And we can be more specific…
“Controls on immigration”
The idea that migrants are a problem, and that in the EU immigration was “out of control” was fed by both main parties, and, importantly, by politicians who later tried to persuade voters to chose to remain in the EU. Let’s not forget it was not just Leave supporting or Tory politicians that got us to where we are.
It happened! Get over it and move on!
Nope.
We. Will. Remind. You. Of. It. Forever.
Yep.
Every attempt by our tinpot 'government' to take this piss, that gets slapped down by the EU and the rest of the respectable world.
Every future negotiation where this country is politely but firmly reminded what it true place in the world really is.
Every lowering of food standards to allow cheap US food to be imported.
Every partially built infrastructure project that has a EU flag plaque on it.
Every removal of workers rights.
Every piece of evidence of a brain drain abroad.
Every business relocation/closure citing Brexit.
Every paved over acre of Kent, with its overflowing portaloos and clashes between lorry drivers and police.
Every unnecessary price increase in every day goods.
Every announcement that a certain category of operation has been reclassified from 'essential' to 'elective' in the NHS.
We. Will. Remind. You. Of. It. Forever.
I'm not denying people from both sides of the political spectrum voted for it, and while it was the Tories who instigated the vote, some blame can also be laid at the Remain camp's feet for not calling out the lies and bullshit of the Leave campaign loudly enough.
I know several left-leaning people who voted leave. They all know I think they were idiots for doing so. I'm still friends with them though.
My godmother is one of them, she now regrets her decision, not so much because of what people have said to her, but because she eventually saw through the vote leave BS.
Oh, and I read that Larry Elliott piece yesterday.
He really is a berk.
There will be no revolution for the good to come from this because the same petty, insular, vindictive, entitled prejudices will be played to again and again. And the same people will lap it up.
People like him will still be proclaiming the revolution is night as the last two 'working class heroes' are beating each other to death in Asda over a pack of bog roll and a bag of orzo pasta.
Brexit is the symptom of a disease that I for one, foolishly, though we had got rid of back in the mid 90s.
Rule $hitannia, eh.
Happy brexit day yah bunch of whiners 🤣
and while it was the Tories who instigated the vote, some blame can also be laid at the Remain camp
These were in the main the same people. Easy to forget that now. But the “Remain” campaign was mostly a Conservative PM and his cabinet… the very people who brought forward the legislation for the vote to happen.
These were in the main the same people. Easy to forget that now. But the “Remain” campaign was mostly a Conservative PM and his cabinet.
They could hardly turn round and admit the reason why the UK is in the mess it is, is because of UK politicians and really nothing to do with the EU.
Happy Independence Day!
Celebrate with your tax free tampons!
They could hardly turn round and admit the reason why the UK is in the mess it is, is because of UK politicians and really nothing to do with the EU.
Indeed.
The big two political parties fed the idea that the EU held us back, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Blaming immigrants and than allowing the idea that we could only “take back control” of immigration (and our borders, laws and money) is not just down to the Tories.
That Larry Elliot piece is a timely reminder that this isn’t all “owned” by the Tories… far from it… plenty of people “on the left” are celebrating our “Freedom” today. Doubt they’ll ever open their eyes to the reality of what is unfolding in the UK.
. But the “Remain” campaign was mostly a Conservative PM and his cabinet…
Ah yes, David 'oops, I didn't mean for that to happen. Right I'm off. Bye.' Cameron.
****.
Happy brexit day yah bunch of whiners
Wasn’t that last January?
Just console yourselves that their glee for your tears is at least on par with your sadness at the whole mess.
No winners here, and their laughter grows old as Brexit reality bites. At which point the blame-game reboots.
Who bought it? The wealthy elites who will prosper mightily.
And leave the UK instantly if they get a better offer somewhere else.
The rest of us pay for it.
I’m ok I guess. Short-term anyway I’m just about well enough off that paying for it won’t break me. I do feel sorry for those Brexy voters in minimum wage. I guess they’ll be eating sovereignty for breakfast soon.
Happy brexit day yah bunch of whiners
Just watching a bit of the New Year's Day concert from Vienna. Sadly no audience this year. But lovely nonetheless.
Magnificent building and flowers but not gauche and shouty like we'd do it. Rooted in an era of fake imperial splendour, but moved on from that, keeping the trappings but with a modern, outward looking vibe. Not insular and petty like we'd do it.
Don't worry Daveylad - I will continue to apologise for being British on your behalf to any European I meet. You are most welcome.
Sure we once very pluckily and courageously held out for 18 months against the Nazis, until the US and USSR got dragged in. But I think it is time we stopped dining out on that one as a nation. Honour the sacrifice, of course, but it is time to stop expecting a 'thankyou'.
Oh, and the 3rd England 'goal' in the 1966 world cup final wasn't a goal. 'We' only won that because of a biased Russian linesman.
Happy new year to all on Rainy Fascist Plague Island.
We. Will. Remind. You. About. It. Forever.
painting a picture of what a progressive, fair, environmentally sensitive UK could look like
People have been doing this for decades, even centuries, and yet for most of the time they've been ignored. Why on earth do you think that'd change now? Not only have we chose to put up trade barriers with our nearest neighbours, but we've reduced the possibility of cultural exchange and the associated benefits.
And we're run by Tories, and there's a real chance we'll be run by Tories for the foreseeable future. So tell me why on earth you think that ideas for a better Britain will be listened to now, when they never were?
I'll give you a tip: better education is absolutely key to a better society. Did the EU ever stop us creating a better education system? No, of course not. But Tories did, and they still do.
Yeah I'll not be forgiving or forgetting the damage done to this country by brexit & the plastic patriots behind it.
Dont just blame the conservatives.
It’s a * up deal wise but the dream had plenty of red in it too.
Binary policies and politics are what’s * us all over.
This x1000. I can't believe that after all that has happened people still think it's just a Tory thing.
What about Labour. Leaving aside Magic Grandad for a while, Starmer whipped his party to vote for this Brexit on Wednesday. Not because it was needed to avoid No Deal, but because he wanted to win back some of the scum vote that he lost to the Tories in the last election. Which I will never forgive him for.
Which does indeed support the sad conclusion that the Tories will be in power for the foreseeable future.
Starmer whipped his party to vote for this Brexit on Wednesday. Not because it was needed to avoid No Deal, but because he wanted to win back some of the scum vote that he lost to the Tories in the last election. Which I will never forgive him for.
Starmer went down massively in my estimation on Wednesday.
But 'scum vote' and 'plastic patriots' are phrases that I will be using liberally from now on.
👍👍👍🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
Anyone who says ‘it’s happened, get over it.’ or any other variation on the theme, needs to be reminded of the shit-fest they voted for on a regular basis.
I voted Remain and think it's happened and we should get over it.
I voted Remain and think it’s happened and we should get over it.
Good for you.
Good for you.
I believe it is good for me, yes. I believe it would be good for you too.
Happy new year.
I voted Remain and think it’s happened and we should get over it.
I've accepted it.
I'll never like it.
I won't forget it.
#back to 1973 #own it.
Does this mean it's ok to have a Friday Kylie thread now then?!?
Love the way people are saying it’s a mistake without any proof. You have to give it time to see what will happen. The biggest issue I have is the way the inept government have taken 4 years to make an agreement with the EU.
The idea of the EU is good the current implementation was poor. Sooner we get rid of the Tory’s the better.
I’ve accepted it.
I’ll never like it.
I won’t forget it.
I don't like it either. So we can wallow in self pity and perpetuate a culture war we will lose, or think about what we want our post-EU country to look like.
OP, it's your fault. You should have been writing to the BBC continually to complain about programmes and comedians making jokes about the euro-sausage and straight bananas etc.... And you should also have set up a pro-EU political party and spent 20-years going round every house in the UK explaining the benefits of the EU. If you couldn't be bothered doing any of that until after the event then who else can we blame?
I'm also in the forward looking mindset.
I really dislike it, I do think there's a need to continue to highlight the liars and the downsides.
However, I want to think about what country I do want to live in. It's time to push hard and stand ground on what I do want, not what I don't.
To quote the Scottish government - I want a fairer, greener, healthier and wealthier country.
I voted Remain and think it’s happened and we should get over it.
You have to give it time to see what will happen.
Er... are we back to this?
We can read, with our own eyes, the new barriers, extra costs and mountains of expensive and time wasting red tape that individuals, families, councils, customers, sellers, exporters, importers, couriers, delivery companies, hospitals, employers, workers and government departments have to contend with RIGHT NOW. And, importantly, we can also read the FTA signed on our behalf that states that they will continue to change for years to come. More and ever changing bureaucracy hampering all of us with only a British passport... all of us working for purely British sited companies... all of us who aren't part of the elite, with their homes and businesses in many countries outside these islands. The more you are tied to Britain, the worse this effects you. It's fine for the Elliots of Vote Leave, the Rees-Moggs, the Johnsons... whatever happens to the "true Brits"... it matters not to them, with their fingers in pies all over the world.
We have lost so much and gained nothing just so some rich, out of touch Tory tossers can avoid paying tax.
My children have lost such amazing opportunities due to selfish, ill-informed idiots who believed the lies and bullshit and I will never forgive them.
To quote the Scottish government – I want a fairer, greener, healthier and wealthier country.
+1
Er… are we back to this?
There's one thing we haven't left behind and that's moaning about things that aren't going to change. I hope some of you are just sounding off because otherwise I worry for your mental well-being.
I don't know what you mean by 'accept it' @ransos. I've accepted it, of course, otherwise I would be indulging in Trumpian levels of denial. But I wont stop criticising our government for doing stupid things. That is a cornerstone of democracy, and Brexit is no exception to this. I am taking part in the national debate (albeit in a tiny way), and that is what affects political outcomes. So I won't stop talking about it if that's what you want.
So we can wallow in self pity and perpetuate a culture war we will lose, or think about what we want our post-EU country to look like.
These two things aren't exclusive, are they?
I've been thinking and talking about what I want my country to look like for decades, I didn't just start in 2016.
Starmer whipped his party to vote for this Brexit on Wednesday. Not because it was needed to avoid No Deal, but because he wanted to win back some of the scum vote that he lost to the Tories in the last election. Which I will never forgive him for.
Welcome to the Revolution brother.
Seriously, think about it.
What else could he have done? He's leading a minority, their voters deserted them in big numbers due to the various failings of the Labour Party. He's stuck, and cant do anything else.
Voting against it would do nothing, apart from giving the Conservatives more fuel for their media attacks against the Labour Leader. He also has many Leave voters who support his Party, so would upset them even more if he had voted against.
Language like that shows that you havent learnt anything from the election defeat.
Would you rather have a Labour Government?
If so, then there will have to be compromises, on policy and the direction they are going. A socialist republic isnt going to happen, they need to appeal to a broad majority of voters, not the minority who think Corbyn and his cronies were a good choice to lead the Country.
I've seen few references to Corbyn, and his lack of support for Remain. Ocasionally he would give support to a Remain campaign, but if the Labour party was so much for Remain, he would be leading the campaign. That he didnt, and, reputedly, supported leaving, shows that the Labour party was totally split about what to do. If he had supported Remain, and given a good argument to stay, then the outcome may well have been different. As it was, his lack of leadership lost Labour some of their heartlands, and it is going to be hard to get them back.
Starmer has to deal with this, and is in a very difficult place. The worst Government in living memory, yet Labour is still struggling in the polls. Labour Supporters need to understand that they cannot carry on as before, slagging off anyone who didnt vote how they did, is not going to persuade those voters to side with them.
To quote the Scottish government – I want a fairer, greener, healthier and wealthier country.
Yup. And Labour is nowhere on these issues.
I worry for your mental well-being
Do you have a contribution to make... or will every post from you from now on tell us to stop talking about the subject of the thread?
I don’t like it either. So we can wallow in self pity and perpetuate a culture war we will lose, or think about what we want our post-EU country to look like.
OR - we can do both. The day I need a sanctimonious prig like you worrying about my mental health... Well, that'll be the day, that will. 🙂
What else could he have done?
Abstain. It would still have easily gone through.
Do you have a contribution to make… or will every from you be telling us to stop talking about the subject of this thread?
Your intolerance for a different perspective is entirely unsurprising to me. You are of course aware that no-one has told you to do anything, but seem determined to play the victim.
OR – we can do both. The day I need a sanctimonious prig like you worrying about my mental health… Well, that’ll be the day, that will. 🙂
Not seeing much evidence of anything apart from toddlers throwing a tantrum because they didn't get their own way.
Not because it was needed to avoid No Deal, but because he wanted to win back some of the scum vote that he lost to the Tories in the last election. Which I will never forgive him for.
+1
What’s really disappointing me at the moment is that the left of British politics seems to be mostly stuck in hand-wringing and complaining
You'd best put your body armour on with views like that round here. This isn't a place for sensible discussion, it's more like the spanish inquisition 🙂
PS. I entirely agree. Remainers need to get over it and start thinking about how to combat the Rees-Moggs and Raab's of this world instead of licking their wounds and crying about how unfair it all is. It's a pathetic sight quite frankly.
Happy brexit day yah bunch of whiners
Wasn’t that last January?
All feels a bit Groundhoggy to be fair!
toddlers throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get their own way
"toddlers" ... "mental health" ... keep the fun times rolling ...
Remainers need to get over it and start thinking about how to combat the Rees-Moggs and Raab’s of this world instead of licking their wounds and crying about how unfair it all is. It’s a pathetic sight quite frankly.
So the best way to combat the Rees-Moggs and Raab's "of this world" is not too draw any attention to the damage they are causing. Embrace their project and undermine it from the inside... by what means...?
but because he wanted to win back some of the scum vote that he lost to the Tories
Maybe the "scum" voted the way they did because partly they sensed many of their "betters" regarded them as scum.