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She was concerned about the number of Polish in her area and ‘where we are going to put them all’. Irony being she’s an immigrant herself.
I understand that you feel that it is "ironic", but do you actually believe it has any significance?
Is it only a valid question if asked by a UK born citizen?
The UK has immigration controls, except for foreigners from European countries which are members of the EU. Is it okay to support those immigration controls if you are a UK born citizen, but if you were an immigrant yourself then you should support the abolition of immigration controls?
It sounds a little bit racist to me........the suggestion that only UK born British citizens are entitled to have an opinion on immigration controls.
It sounds a little bit racist to me
Oh, please… just do one.
Do you then stop being friends with them just because they voted differently to you.
No, none of them vote for UKip/Brexit or Tory though.
Must be very weird living in such a bubble.
Maybe, maybe not.
Roughly half the population support Brexit or have voted Tory. If you have managed to isolate your social life from those people then it does suggest a somewhat weird bubble.
If I only had friends who shared my own political veiws I would struggle to have any.
Grow up!
I was simply trying to explain how the OP might have arrived at this place.
Of course Brexit is far less important than any number of crises that could affect a person. No-one is pretending otherwise, except the title of the thread is hyperbolic. But relationships are important, and identity is important. I'm having my rights stripped for no good reason or benefit that I can see. And this is important to me. It's been a big part of my life that's ending and my kids won't have the chances I did.
Of course, there are also the practicities of Brexit which is likely to hurt our economy to the point where people in genuine need are even less likely to get the help they need. But that's by the by for this thread.
Oh, please… just do one.
So you believe that all immgrants living in the UK should oppose all immigration controls?
I can't say that as a former member of the Revolutionary Communist Party, which I believe you are, that surprises me entirely.
Since I suspect that the Revolutionary Communist Party's postion was to oppose all immigration controls, and to freely allow anyone from anywhere in the world to come to the UK whithout hiddrance.
I believe that it is still the position of the Socialist Workers Party, another ultra-left Trot party with no grip on reality.
If I only had friends who shared my own political veiws I would struggle to have any.
Maybe you are not as likeable as me!!!
So you believe that all immgrants living in the UK should oppose all immigration controls?
Reading and understanding are not strengths of yours are they!!
My dad voted leave, and recently claimed Rees mogg was a principled individual. We have had many a raging argument about it, and I've pointed out that the aging leave vote was selfish as as others have said, they'll be the only ones that won't be affected.
But would I fall out with him about it. Of course not. I thinks he's an idiot for voting that way, but our relationship isn't going to change due to a difference of opinion. Tbh it sounds like the problem is more with the ops attitude than his dad's.
Besides, we'll need all the friends we have once we leave and it all goes to shit. Keep in with him op, you don't want to miss out on the inheritance when the economy tanks and you are on left on the breadline!!! 🙂
Reading and understanding are not strengths of yours are they!!
How ironic. That comment clearly betrays the fact that you have obviously failed to read and understand what I said.
And btw, yes, I'm sure that I am not as likable as you. Your likeablism shines through with every post that you write.
I do however have plenty of friends. Some of them even vote Tory.
Oh, please… just do one.
Nice! One of the tragedies of brexit is that people who previously were fairly mild-mannered remain supporters have now lowered themselves to the level of the brexit mob. It's not just on here either. People really need to calm down and get a grip. As a good friend said to me recently, why has everyone suddenly become completely obsessed with macro-economic trade policy?
And on Ernie's point, I know a few immigrants who are anti-immigration. It may feel counter-intuitive, but it is completely logical. I'm an immigrant from Newcastle to Manchester. Do I want all geordies to follow me? Christ no! That's why I left! (that was a joke btw before anyone feels the need to respond)
And on Ernie’s point, I know a few immigrants who are anti-immigration.
I'm actually an immigrant myself, something which I was reminded of when I was turned away from the polling booth last Thursday, apparently I had registered too late.
Does that mean I should support no immigration restrictions into the UK? Of course it doesn't.
Btw I'm lucky as I'm a white European immigrant, according to the Europhiles that makes me special.
It would be a different if I was an immigrant from a black African country or the Indian subcontinent, that would be a different ball game.
anagallis_arvensis
Member
If I only had friends who shared my own political veiws I would struggle to have any.Maybe you are not as likeable as me!!
Although by surrounding yourself with only those who share your very narrow view/opinion ... it is very likely you are not entirely what you believe you are.
I am pretty sure you are that person who often gets asked to share your opinions/views with others; and I am also pretty sure that you are not aware of the comical value you provide in doing so.
Although by surrounding yourself with only those who share your very narrow view/opinion
It's not necessarily deliberate, is it?
Although by surrounding yourself with only those who share your very narrow view/opinion … it is very likely you are not entirely what you believe you are.
I still exist in the same world which has a mix of views I just dont choose to spend my time with those who at best would support those with views I oppose
I am pretty sure you are that person who often gets asked to share your opinions/views with others; and I am also pretty sure that you are not aware of the comical value you provide in doing so.
I dont have friends like you so thats me lucky I guess.
It’s not necessarily deliberate, is it?
Kind of is, kind of isnt. It just doesnt happen, I dont warm to those people.
Life needs those who can bring a smile to your face, and I would love to have someone like you anagallis_arvensis in my office ... I am sure I could convince someone as special as you I am your bestest best friend without too much difficulty; the amusement you would provide!
Like I said mooman, I am lucky not to have friends like you.
I am sure I could convince someone as special as you I am your bestest best friend without too much difficulty
You don't seem to be having much success moomoo! Maybe some self reflection is in order?
Are you 100% sure about that though?
Yes, I'd never associate with you. I think anagallis has been pretty clear.
Mooman, you don't seem to be progressing your argument very well!
The best way of convincing someone that they're losing out by having an insular social circle is generally to confront them aggressively with that observation in the hope that they'll then realise the error of their ways and spend more time with people they disagree with.
mattyfez
Member
Yes, I’d never associate with you. I think anagallis has been pretty clear.
No biggy; there are always other special people like you and analgallis that provide amusement in every work place. And I am sure you both are an invaluable resource to others who know your views/opinions on topical issues.
People really need to calm down and get a grip
People need to stop with the boring trolling of people, suggesting they are "racist" for seeing the irony in migrants wanting to reduce migration. You can put your handbag away.
Does that mean I should support no immigration restrictions into the UK?
Who does? We have restrictions now, some people want to make it harder to migrate, some want to make it easier, never met anyone who says there should be no restrictions at all, have you?
Anyway, OP, don't push your dad away, that would achieve nothing and you'd both lose out. Life is short.
....suggesting they are “racist” for seeing the irony in migrants wanting to reduce migration.
Well I can see how some people might find it ironic. However I don't see any reason why someone shouldn't have an opinion on immigration controls just because they happen to have been immigrants themselves.
People born outside the UK are entitled to have the same wide range of opinions as anyone else. To automatically stereotype them as strong opponents of immigration controls sounds, like I said, a little bit racist to me
However I can understand how just even the mere suggestion that it might "sound a little bit racist" offends you kelvin. Especially as you've appear to have spent the last few years on the EU thread where anyone with an opposing opinion is swiftly denounced as a racist.
It's not very nice, is it? And a little bit offensive.
Perhaps some people need to be a little less liberal with their use of the term "racist" and not use it willy-nilly against anyone who disagrees with them.
However I don’t see any reason why someone shouldn’t have an opinion on immigration controls just because they happen to have been immigrants themselves.
Perhaps you don't really understand irony?
I think some people don't understand the irony of their liberal use of the term racist, and then appear to get a little offended when it is directed against themselves because an immigrant doesn't appear to fit into the stereotype they've created.
It wasn't directed against me though was it? Oh well. Have your fun.
I've only just noticed the untruths you posted about me Ernie. Very odd.
Anyway, OP, keep talking to your dad, please.
I'm sorry if you feel that I've said some "untruths" about you kelvin, it certainly wasn't intentional.
But hey, thank you for using parliamentary language - it was strangely unexpected, after the "Oh, please… just do one"
If this new level of politeness becomes contagious, you never know, I might even get tempted to contribute a comment on the EU thread.
It sounds a little bit racist to me……..the suggestion that only UK born British citizens are entitled to have an opinion on immigration controls.
There is no such thing as ‘race’, it’s a bogus concept, except in the fact that Homo sapiens is one race, any variation is down to ethnicity. It’s an even greater fallacy when used in regard to other Europeans.
No biggy; there are always other special people like you and analgallis that provide amusement in every work place. And I am sure you both are an invaluable resource to others who know your views/opinions on topical issues.
Not trying to be rude and yes I've been at a mates* house for dinner and had a few beers so maybe I shouldnt post but you do seem like a complete dick. I mean I know wecall have our faults, I certainly do but you really do seem to be going out of your way to be a dick. Every work place has at least one of you too.
* not sure how he voted but we had a quick moan about Farage and Boris over a beer.
He is.. 110%
Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable
I voted to remain because I thought there was a slim chance that that what you said is what staying in the EU is all about. I never really believed it though. The framing of the other option as racist forced it though.
molgrips
It’s much more than politics. The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.
And voting for Farage isn’t just a political decision. The implications of this approach to your democratic obligation are far reaching. Brexit is not just a government, it fundamentally changes who we are as a nation, and that makes it difficult when you personally don’t agree with it. If you felt good about your country, you may now feel ashamed of it. This is a big personal change to your sense of self and identity. As well as the actual legal removal of your EU citizenship. Imagine being stripped of your English citizenship. This would be a shock to most people and would cause quite a bit of upset, to put it mildly. You may not think EU citizenship is important, but many people did. These are personal issues that have been decided for remainers by people who do not value these things.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts there.
why has everyone suddenly become completely obsessed with macro-economic trade policy?
Cos it has real effects, as previously noted, like splitting up families.
Well the unpleasantness on show here is like a little microcosm of Brexit eh?
But I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.
But I’m not angry, I’m just disappointed.
Sorry mum 😂😂
I'm not going to be stopping talking to my dad. I just can't get my head around his decision, protest vote or not.
I just can’t get my head around his decision, protest vote or not.
Just accept that you will never understand what goes on in the minds of others and move on. You are not right, they are not wrong - you just see it differently.
I’m not going to be stopping talking to my dad. I just can’t get my head around his decision, protest vote or not.
Well glad to hear you've not lost your family.
Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable
Then you should do some research. The overwhelming evidence is homogeneous environments outperform mixed / multicultural in every respect from performance to happiness to crime to inequality.
Ballcocks to it all now - the Govt have really fluffed this up between them, and ruined any possible good outcome. I wouldn't get too upset about what others think. The whole thing is a complete mess - worse than that.
Then you should do some research. The overwhelming evidence is homogeneous environments outperform mixed / multicultural in every respect from performance to happiness to crime to inequality.
You wot?
You'll need to supply some links to back that up, since all that I've read says immigration is good for the economy.
Well you probably wouldn't find it on the BBC.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201810101068751249-sweden-gdp-immigration/
https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1IK0EO
Even if immigration did help boost an economy that isn't the point I was making. And anyway how does that help the OPs desire to help the rest of the world by the power of diversity?
England is less than 1% of the world population, Europe 10%? And rapidly heading to half that. Its also the most densely populated.
What about the countries they are coming from and their economies. What is the end game, should Europeans be shipped off round the world so the power of diversity can work its magic. That sounds more like colonialism. And should China and India do the same?
If you want to raise standards of living at global level there are ways, open borders isn't one of them.
Tinribz, EU immigration is being replaced by non-EU immigration. EU immigrants are generally well-educated and instantly enter the workforce. Non-EU migrants take a little longer, 7-8 years according to the Swedes, which is still less than the 20 years for a native. Anyhow the Germans are convinced EU immigration is a source of growth.
tinribz I don't know why you think an article by a Russian government news agency furthers your argument. It is in their interests to spread disinformation against hostile economic and military adversaries, as it is in the West's interests to spread disinformation about them.
And your second link doesn't prove anything other than migrants have provided a monetary cost for the Germany government. Is that a bad thing? Why shouldn't it be seen as just another worthwhile government investment?
fine maybe I was a bit dramatic, red wine does that
I think you mean "wine of color".
What about the countries they are coming from and their economies. What is the end game, should Europeans be shipped off round the world so the power of diversity can work its magic. That sounds more like colonialism. And should China and India do the same?
Well, here's some stuff to think about.
1) Many people come from poorer countries to richer ones, work for a bit, gain skills then take them home again. Of course many stay, but let's not ignore the fact that there is at least some two way traffic.
2) It's not just people that move, it's also goods and services, they are bundled up together in the EU at least. So if you need the expertise of a company in another EU country, you just call them up and there's no issue. There's no restrictions and no hoops to jump though. (In my job we end up sitting at a client's computer telling them what to do - we aren't allowed to actually do anything, unless we're in the EU where we get full access.) This is skills transfer in the opposite direction.
Do you really think the poorer EU countries would have been better off without the free movement of people, goods and labour?
That Roy Beck is presenting a straw man to justify being unpleasant to immigrants. He wilfully ignores the actual issues.
For example, immigration isn't about solving world poverty by allowing all poor people into the US. That's utterly ludicrous, as he points out. But no-one's suggesting that it is a solution, precisely because it's utterly ludicrous. It's a straw man in the true sense (not the way it's chucked around on here).
There's a difference between economic migrants and refugees. The USA allows economic migrants based on the need of it's own economic needs already. And their immigration model isn't based on 'free movement' like the EU - you come to the US and you stay. He's assuming like many Americans that the US is the world's best place and that everyone wants to go there and become American.