[Closed] Brexit/EU: I've lost my family

Just carry on their still your family no neeed for the dramatics because they voted differently.

Maybe he’s just older and wiser?
As we take all the nurses from Poland and Spain what does that actually do for these countries?

Just how does that enable the poorest countries to grow, it allows the richest countries to take the brightest people so they grow, and the poorest countries shrink while the the richest grow.

It’s not growing all of the countries so they are all successful...
Why would the richest countries allow that?
It’s an elitist club that allows the richest to grow.

Drac +1

Edit - it's been said now.. ish 🙂

If he voted for Nigel Farage, then presumably he is OK with the NHS being privatised?

Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable

There you go. It is you who has the problem. Politics is all about accepting differing opinions and constructing compelling arguments against them and if you can't fathom that then you can't effectively engage in the political discourse that is at the heart of democracy. Your undeniable belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong is the fundamental problem. Your opinion (and that is all it is) is no better or worse than anyone else's. and the fact you're willing to sacrifice relationships because of it reflects worse on you. Live and let live. accept people have different opinions than you and defend your point of view, argue to the best of our ability and accept the results and part as friends. That is all the best you can expect. In an argument where there is no right or wrong there is no winner. just differing points of view.

So to answer your question about what to do....just argue your point of view as best you can and hope you influence others. then change subject, move on, have a beer and drink to world peace.

I was going to post but wobbliscott has saved me the bother.

I'm all for old people showing their arse to their children's earnestness (otherwise what is the point of being old?), but there is something deeply obnoxious about them voting for leave. They have no skin in the game. They would crater the economy and have their grandkids shoulder the pain, whilst they remain comfortably insulated in retirement.

That's if you take leave as a serious proposition, which it isn't really now. So probably your Da know's Farage is a comedian and was just lashing a vote his way for a laugh - it's not like he's endorsing a serious policy.

Live and let live.

Is that Brexit Party policy?

accept people have different opinions than you and defend your point of view, argue to the best of our ability and accept the results and part as friends.

Or call them traitors and enemies of democracy. Whatever works for you.

I have plenty of family and friends that say they voted Leave, and I suspect some voted for the Brexit Party. To shun them wouldn't improve my life one iota. It is worrying who they feel in an affinity for in politics though.

As per wobbliscott above.

I have voted for Brexit Party just like your parents with a reason of my own (see my response in the referendum thread).

I’m a fervent remainer.

I think you might haven been "radicalised" without even knowing.
Political parties or ideologies are just that and nothing more so take them too seriously at your own peril.

Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable. I simply can’t understand it. I try to understand it by thinking they are the brainwashed by rhetoric, but as these people are often my free thinking, intelligent friends, I worry more.

People are just people with their own views and identities so who is to say they are right or wrong? You can try to change their (people) views but if they do not accept then there is nothing you can do apart from trying again.

... what to do.

Nothing. Just acknowledge that we all have different views.

People do have different opinions than you

This much is true

But some people think that you shouldn't put pineapple on a pizza!

And others think that Jews/Gays/Muslims should DIE!

And they behave as if these are 'just' differences of opinion.

But when you look up at the stars, they shine at different magnitudes. They are quantifiable.

"live and let live" Is that Brexit Party policy?

Yes it actually is...I think. I'm no brexiteer and no fan of the Brexit party but brexiteers are not against immigration (or so says my brexiteer father)...they just want control over our immigration policy. That is their mantra...their goal...ultimately it is upto the government of the day to set immigration policy (outside of the EU) and this is where the rub is....immigration, of all the reasons for Brexit is a red herring because our immigration 'problems' (In comma's because immigration isn't really a problem) is a problem due to immigration of non-eu countries, so leaving the EU won't solve any perceived immigrant problems - other than those who wash our cars or fit our toilets. But I accept that brining control back into Parliament is a preferable situation for most people compared to leaving it to un-elected bureaucrats. the further away power is ceded away from individuals the greater the concern, so as more and more power is ceded away from our own parliament and given up to the EU parliament the more people are going to be concerned.It's only natural - no-body likes to feel less powerful. At least in our UK parliament the government is held to account by the opposition....but in the European parliament who is the formal opposition? How do you hold the incumbent power to account?

And there is the fallacy that the UK government and Parliament have ceded power to Europe. It’s exactly the opposite. The UK has full control of immigration, the policy is set by the government of the day, they have full control of it. If they choose a different policy to one you agree with then it’s within your power as a voter to alter party policy.

Again the fallacy that the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats is only partly true. It’s no different to the UK’s parliament. The commons, the unelected lords and the appointed civil service. Only MPs are chosen by a twisted form of democracy.

I'm coming round to your idea of brining back control.

We should definitely all jump into a salt bath and mull it over.

"I have voted for Brexit Party just like your parents with a reason of my own (see my response in the referendum thread)."

Actually, my parents are interesting data points.

My parents aren't Boomers, they actually lived through the war - my Mum still vividly remembers the sound of aircraft overhead as she cowered with her Mum and brother under the stairs in Manchester, and the crash as the bombs fell around them, my Dad was evacuated from Liverpool to Anglesey.

They both voted Remain - dig through the data and you'll find that as you get to the oldies that actually lived through the war there is a noticeable uptick for Remain.

As you sift through the data you find that there are actually two voices of the 'old' - the true voice is not the bluster of bullshitters, the voice of experience is a voice for peace.

My Mum voted Labour in the Euros btw - i don't think she has ever voted any other way since she started doing so in the 1950's.

I wish my dad who I admire and modelled my life choices on, due to being a thoroughly brilliant and decent person was still alive to tell me who he voted for, I wouldn’t give a toss which box he put a cross in.

Disown them?

Its an option... 🤷‍♂️

Just how does that enable the poorest countries to grow, it allows the richest countries to take the brightest people so they grow, and the poorest countries shrink while the the richest grow.

Because it's a two way street. Skills and wealth can freely move in both directions.

https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-transformation-economic-success/

I can't stand Farage but your Dad had the freedom to put a cross in any box he desired for whatever reason was important or trivial to him at the time - maybe that's something to appreciate. You now have the same freedom to debate openly with him and on here the rights and wrongs of his choice.

You now have the same freedom to debate openly with him and on here the rights and wrongs of his choice.

Except that some choices have real consequences. The consequence of voting for Brexit may be that my wife no longer has the right to stay here in the UK, and so we have to move to some other country that will have us both, or become a "Skype family". My parents voted Remain. If they'd voted Leave I don't think "just getting on with it" would have been among my reactions.

My dad was a strong Thatcher supporter in the 80's when I was at my most left wing stage. We had debates about it but it made no difference to our relationship. He was still one of the kindest and most community/neighbourhood focused people I have ever known.
I saw him as misled/confused by supporting what Thatcher was doing but he had his reasons and didn't like what Labour were doing before Thatcher.

If he was alive for the referendum it wouldn't have surprised me if he voted for Brexit. My sister and brother in law both did.

17 million people voted Brexit, some of them are bound to be friends or relatives.

As we take all the nurses from Poland and Spain what does that actually do for these countries?

Just how does that enable the poorest countries to grow, it allows the richest countries to take the brightest people so they grow, and the poorest countries shrink while the the richest grow

Except the poorest nations in Europe have grown. Are you proposing that leavi g the EU is a selfess act to help the poorer countries and that jumping into massive economic uncertainty is a good thing? Please don't go along with the it will be all right gang. It makes no sense. The question should not be are there issues with the EU but does leaving the EU solve more problems than it creates if indeed it actually solves any real problems rather than those that have been fabricated or massively inflated.

To get back to the OP the way forward is to try and understand each other better and be able to discuss this without it becoming polarised. The polarization into leave/remain, right/left right/wrong has meant that everything has become an argument and not a discussion. Our political leaders, with very few exceptions, constantly argue, use falsehoods and half truths. To accede an opposing view has merit and that they could work together never happens in public. That role model does not work in real life where we all can hold contrary opinions and can be right and wrong at the same time! We need to relearn how to talk to each other and work out a way of coming together.

The only real advice is to take a deep breath and find out you can talk to each other without it ending up in an argument. Then you can tell the rest of us the secret 😉

I stopped giving a bollocks some time ago.. **** em!

these people are often my free thinking, intelligent friends

They're clearly not free thinking, or intelligent, as they're wrong.

Only people with the right opinion can be described as intelligent, shirley.

As the 1st reply suggested; you just need to stop your dramatics ... maybe visit your GP for a referral to see someone regarding your EUPD impacting on your life too.

You obviously got significant difficulties regulating your emotions if you feel you’ve lost your family over this!

My parents and one of my brothers voted leave (brother then had the nerve to get himself an Irish passport as he works around Europe....). We have "debated" it once and agreed to never again as there is a very real risk it would cause a lasting division.
I very much suspect that they voted for Farage, I'm not going to ask but I do think a bit less of them. I know I shouldn't but I can't help it. To be honest I suspect my Dad is also a bit of a Trump fan, too. He was a Doctor as well, such an intelligent, educated man. It makes me sad if I dwell on it too much.

my former card carrying Labour member dad –

Perhaps he hasn't changed and has instead remained true to what he believed in.

In 1983 the Labour Party WAS the Brexit Party. There was of course no UKIP in those days. The 1983 Labour Party election manifesto had a firm commitment to leave the European Community. If you wanted to leave the ECC you voted Labour, it was as simple as that.

Of course in those days the fanatical Europhiles hadn't managed to get away with calling all opposition to the European Community racist. In fact no attempt was made.

Without a right-wing UKIP on the scene calling Michael Foot and the Labour Party racist for wanting to leave Europe would have been simply too absurd.

Especially as throughout the 1983 Labour Party manifesto there were constant references to the protection and rights of ethic minorities.

Which constrasted sharply with Margaret Thatcher, a fervent remainer, and her attacks on immigrants with claims that Britons didn't want to be, quote, "swamped".

farage is a ****, he doesn't have any policies beyond populist right wing noise. if you voted for him then you need to understand that you are aligning yourself with that.

There's a few things that you justify falling out with family over, politics shouldn't be one of them.

I'm a remainer, and can't compute why people think we're better off to leave but they have their reasons. Just like some people don't get 29ers.

To get back to the OP the way forward is to try and understand each other better and be able to discuss this without it becoming polarised. The polarization into leave/remain, right/left right/wrong has meant that everything has become an argument and not a discussion. Our political leaders, with very few exceptions, constantly argue, use falsehoods and half truths. To accede an opposing view has merit and that they could work together never happens in public. That role model does not work in real life where we all can hold contrary opinions and can be right and wrong at the same time! We need to relearn how to talk to each other and work out a way of coming together.

The only real advice is to take a deep breath and find out you can talk to each other without it ending up in an argument.

^^^This. I don't know if it's the internet, other media or something else, but as a society we seem to have lost the ability to see nuance, listen effectively and consider alternative views, instead it's all polarisation, name calling and shouting each other down. That's on both "sides".

Everyone needs to calm down a bit, stop getting emotionally hooked & overreacting and go back to the classic "listen twice, speak once".

The OP is ridiculous.

You seem to want to disown your family because they don't want the UK to remain in a Right Wing Trade Organisation? A system that has been created to create wealth for big business? All because he thinks it means that deep down they don't like brown people?

Why do think Thatcher wanted to be part of the EU? For benefit of the ordinary people?

FFS. This place. Absolute echochamber.

A few months ago I was called a racist on here for highlighting the fact that Poland has significantly lower animal welfare standards than the UK.

You seem to want to disown your family because they don’t want the UK to remain in a Right Wing Trade Organisation?

FFS. This place. Absolute echochamber.

Indeed it is.

Indeed it is.

If I could be arsed I would highlight my responses on numerous occasions, where I have stated what the EU is.

If I could be arsed I would highlight my responses on numerous occasions, where I have stated what the EU is.

There's a very long thread for that, off you pop.

I have stated my opinion on what the EU is

Fixed...

FFS. This place. Absolute echochamber.

A few months ago I was called a racist on here for highlighting the fact that Poland has significantly lower animal welfare standards than the UK.

I'm an ardent remainer and have been called an appeaser and far right sympathiser! I'm sure we furiously disagree with eachother on brexit, but on this you are right.

Pook, have you actually asked your dad why he voted for Farage? I know a few who voted for him, not because they are racist or right wing nutjobs, but for the simple fact that at this point in time he is the most convenient and impactful protest vote. People are sick of not being listened to. As long as this continues, snake oil salesmen like Farage and Boris will benefit.

I think a protest vote is fine, I think people people having different opinions is fine. Bit when the dust settles and we have left the EU and realised it wasn't a really a good idea who will we have to lead us into the brave new world, Boris!

People are sick of not being listened to. As long as this continues, snake oil salesmen like Farage and Boris will benefit.

For some people with leave tinted glasses it is possible to have a nuanced and intelligence led conversation regarding the facts and that's to be be commended on both sides, the ability to put your point across without resorting to name calling or verbal abuse is part and parcel of a functioning society, but even i draw the line at the utter stupidity of some arguments voiced by those who are entrenched in brexiteer views - for those folk there really is no hope of ever having a coherent conversation as you get hit with quotes such as "52%, we won...get over it....i believe we will get a better trade deal.....take back control.....control over immigration.....i'm not racist but.....farage speaks sense to me....."

For those folk who refuse/cannot see the lies despite being shown overwhelming evidence then **** em, to call them ****ing cretins is entirely justified.

edit : perhaps I'm not exactly an impartial person to talk about this as the very small and targeted medical trial study i was possibly due to take part in was cancelled due to concerns over eu transportation of genetically modified gut microbiota as part of a study into the effect of the gut microbiome and its role in regulating the immune system as part of a multiple sclerosis study, this offers a real hope in developing new treatments for the disease, but then again what do i know being a remainer with secondary progressive multiple sclerosis, on a good note i can stand up today so that's a win...however i have constant pins & needles in all my limbs and my leg muscles are locked solid with muscle spasms at the moment, my arms are also getting weaker by the day, not to mention no control over bladder/bowels so if i call out some ****ing cretin for how they voted then i'm afraid you'll just have to forgive me, as i really ****ing mean it.

You seem to want to disown your family

I think the OP is saying exactly the opposite. He has a strong bond with his family and
Is upset about the strain that his parents' diametrically opposed views are putting on a valued relationship.

It's interesting how so many people are able to explain why they support a party that has no manifesto and whose leader studiously avoids answering any questions about his policies. That's the clever thing about the Brexit Party. By standing for nothing, they can be an empty platform for people to vent about anything they are unhappy about. Ultimately, that will be their greatest weakness as well.

I think a protest vote is fine,

Isn't that one of the reasons we're in this mess? A lot of people protest voted and didn't think it would actually happen!

Even if remain won they would still think the same things .

It’s a bit dramatic to say you feel sick ever since you found out about your fathers vote.
It was a choice and he made one, whether it was a protest vote or not.
My sister made a vote that was different to mine but that’s her choice and I certainly won’t lose sleep over it.
I really worry for the future when people are marginalised and castigated for having different views to the person next to them.

My F-I-L and I used to have some great conversations about politics - more often than not, we would agree but because of Brexit we have no common ground on that subject - he literally just comes out with 'democracy, I voted against this in the 70's, Brexit means Brexit' or whatever. There is no conversation - it is just a cult. Forget about any evidence.

Exactly the same thing as when you post 'what is the first EU law you would repeal?' on Singletrack to be honest 🙂

But here is the thing - we just talk about something else!

I think Brexit is completely insane - and its cheerleaders and enablers are charlatans of the highest order but I'm not falling out with my family over an arsehole like Farage.

Yaxley-Lennon voters - that would be different - they can definitely all do one.

So you've 'lost' your family because they have a different view to you on something?! You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

For some people with leave tinted glasses it is possible to have a nuanced and intelligence led conversation regarding the facts and that’s to be be commended on both sides, the ability to put your point across without resorting to name calling or verbal abuse is part and parcel of a functioning society, but even i draw the line at the utter stupidity of some arguments voiced by those who are entrenched in brexiteer views

... I think someone is trolling; or not read the Brexit thread!

Your opinion (and that is all it is) is no better or worse than anyone else’s.

Precisely, I fell out with my parents over their annoying insistence that their opinion the earth was spherical was somehow 'better' than my take that it's basically flat and we can accidentally fall off the edge :-/

fine maybe I was a bit dramatic, red wine does that. But still cannot understand it, even as a protest vote

Just carry on their still your family no neeed for the dramatics because they voted differently.

It's much more than politics. The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.

And voting for Farage isn't just a political decision. The implications of this approach to your democratic obligation are far reaching. Brexit is not just a government, it fundamentally changes who we are as a nation, and that makes it difficult when you personally don't agree with it. If you felt good about your country, you may now feel ashamed of it. This is a big personal change to your sense of self and identity. As well as the actual legal removal of your EU citizenship. Imagine being stripped of your English citizenship. This would be a shock to most people and would cause quite a bit of upset, to put it mildly. You may not think EU citizenship is important, but many people did. These are personal issues that have been decided for remainers by people who do not value these things.

The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.

Exactly which is why you forget about and move on.

Can’t you just ask that you no longer talk about politics, and never do so again?

Plenty of other things to talk about, no doubt, and seeing as you know each like, well, father and son it should only take a ‘look’ or a ‘noise’ to signal that a conversation is straying in the direction of the verboten(?)

FWIW, I strongly suspect my Mum voted ‘Leave’, so now I just don’t talk about it in front of her.

^molgrips has it pretty bang on there.

Just got back from my parents, both of whom voted leave in the referendum. They also voted to not join in the first place.

Since the referendum, my mum has gone full Mail reading, Brexit voting gammon. Tonight my dad did at least concede that the failure to deliver it had left many businesses and jobs in limbo, and distracted Parliament from addressing the many urgent issues facing UK society. First time he's disagreed with her on the subject that I can recall.

But they are still my parents and I love them. I understand why they vote the way they do, even if I don't agree with them.

molgrips

Subscriber
Just carry on their still your family no neeed for the dramatics because they voted differently.

It’s much more than politics. The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.

And voting for Farage isn’t just a political decision. The implications of this approach to your democratic obligation are far reaching. Brexit is not just a government, it fundamentally changes who we are as a nation, and that makes it difficult when you personally don’t agree with it. If you felt good about your country, you may now feel ashamed of it. This is a big personal change to your sense of self and identity. As well as the actual legal removal of your EU citizenship. Imagine being stripped of your English citizenship. This would be a shock to most people and would cause quite a bit of upset, to put it mildly. You may not think EU citizenship is important, but many people did. These are personal issues that have been decided for remainers by people who do not value these things.

Grow up!

Pook

Subscriber
^molgrips has it pretty bang on there.

No he has not .. he just coming across as almost as big a ****t as what you did. You need to grow up too.

Easy Mooman no need for that.

Appols.

My patience runs dry at times.

Working with people with real problems day in day out - then having drama Queens pouting about losing family members ... over a difference of opinion is bit too much at times.

Please accept my apologies for biting.

I'm just trying to work out what five letter insult ends in t

fine maybe I was a bit dramatic, red wine does that. But still cannot understand it, even as a protest vote

My take, fwiw, would be that if you think it might help and you're both capable of it, have a non-confrontational chat about why your dad chose to vote the way he did. The ultimate action may be unpalatable, but the motivation behind it may be understandable. The two things aren't necessarily the same.

You've never struck me as a confrontational sort of guy, so I suspect if you can put your immediate gut reaction to one side, you'd be quite capable of doing that. Whether your dad can is up to you to judge. But I'd try to separate the motivation from the action. Understanding why might help, maybe.

I wouldn’t lose too much sleep if my friends / family voted for that bell end, but I honestly can’t see how anyone with a brain would do it.

Nice apology and I hear where you are coming from that’s exactly why I see this as non incidental

Pook ... what’s is your experience of Europe?

Travelled as a tourist to all four corners. Worked in Germany (and continue to work alongside German, Norwegian, Spanish, French and others as a head responsible for global activities in a multinational FTSE 100).
In laws are Greek and extended family is Greek.
My family are Irish heritage.

But my experience? Limited. Even with all that up there I'm inexperienced.

My take, fwiw, would be that if you think it might help and you’re both capable of it, have a non-confrontational chat about why your dad chose to vote the way he did. The ultimate action may be unpalatable, but the motivation behind it may be understandable. The two things aren’t necessarily the same.

You’ve never struck me as a confrontational sort of guy, so I suspect if you can put your immediate gut reaction to one side, you’d be quite capable of doing that. Whether your dad can is up to you to judge. But I’d try to separate the motivation from the action. Understanding why might help, maybe.

^^^absolutely nails it here.

With all due respect OP, it sounds like you have a lack of understanding of your dad's thought processes and motivations - the end result/person he voted for might be unpalatable to you, but that's just the end point.

What are the concerns he had with the current set up? Did something Brexit campaigners say really resonate? Was it grounded in truth? Did something Remain campaigners say alienate him and create a reaction? Was it a protest vote against "the establishment"?

So many valid questions each with valid answers, where there's doubtless a lot to learn on all sides.

Fwiw I voted remain but I completely distance myself from anyone using phrases like "gammons" etc. You never, ever win someone round by insulting them.

I'd also strongly recommend reading "way of the wolf" by Jordan Belfort. It was written as a sales book but in these polarised times is something that would be hugely beneficial for more people to read before trying to put their point across about politics, religion or just about anything else.

Some interesting points raised here, but at the end of the say family are family you are stuck with them.
Its made me think though, I dont really have any friends with different life views to the extent they'd vote Farage. I have a few work colleagues that vote Tory who I would share a pint or two with but we'd never be friends as such. Maybe this makes me narrow minded but I just wouldnt feel comfortable spending time with Tory voters.

This is an interesting thread, my Mum just turned 70 and voted leave. She was concerned about the number of Polish in her area and 'where we are going to put them all'. Irony being she's an immigrant herself.

The problem isn't a difference of opinion, favouring red over blue isn't a relationship changing opinion. But some of the underlying stuff Brexit has brought out in people has been the problem. As for moving on, well unless you all live in an alternate reality it's still in the news and painfully apparent that its ongoing everyday, in fact if you were to remove all trace of it from the news of the last 4 years I'm not sure there's be more than a crappy Sunday papers worth of other news.

Do I want politics to change my relationship with people? No, I'd love to have open discussions about differences of opinion. Is that what has really happened, nope.

anagallis_arvensis

Member
... I dont really have any friends with different life views to the extent they’d vote Farage. I have a few work colleagues that vote Tory who I would share a pint or two with but we’d never be friends as such. Maybe this makes me narrow minded but I just wouldnt feel comfortable spending time with Tory voters.

You really need to reflect on what you have written here, and ask yourself if these are flippant comments ... or if you really mean then.

So many of your statements mark you out as fundamentally bigoted - and seemingly ignorant to how flawed this makes you as a person. Your dislike of Farage is your opinion which is fair enough, and your perfectly entitled to feel that way; but to allow this to guide your life course marks you down as an individual that surpasses the negatives that are afforded to Farage many times over.

As for moving on, well unless you all live in an alternate reality it’s still in the news and painfully apparent that its ongoing everyday

Moving in with your family does not mean ignoring that Brexit is still a hot topic just that falling out with your family over such things is pointless.

Maybe this makes me narrow minded but I just wouldnt feel comfortable spending time with Tory voters.

Do you check with all you friends to see how they voted?

my Mum just turned 70 and voted leave. She was concerned about the number of Polish in her area and ‘where we are going to put them all’. Irony being she’s an immigrant herself.

Here's the thing though - there's 2 angles (at least) here. One is the "emotional hook/solidarity" with fellow immigrants, the other is potentially a pragmatic one of "where will we house/school/support" them. The two aspects aren't mutually exclusive, so you could have someone like your mum who came here as an immigrant, but sees on a pragmatic level (where she lives) that there's not sufficient infrastructure to support a new influx. Neither angle is wrong, and she's not a bad person for having a pragmatic concern either. It's part of a bigger conversation around how we as a nation can support people wanting to come here, who picks up the tab, and how we ensure they (and everyone else) have access to housing they can afford, jobs to earn a living and services & opportunities to meet their ambitions.

They'll be dead soon, no need to worry OP.

So many of your statements mark you out as fundamentally bigoted

Oh well

Do you check with all you friends to see how they voted?

No but amongst my "real" friends our world view and voting intentions combined with discussion of current affairs come up.

who picks up the tab

Immigrants help us "pick up the tab". They pay in more on average than "we" do. This is doubly true of those born in EU/EEA countries. It's not hard to understand this, and as a result stop feeding the anti immigrant feeling with nonsense that suggests they are a burden.

Anyway… OP you HAVE to try and get on with your friends and family, no matter how they voted. And the older generation, including your own blood line, being more receptive to the fear being whipped up about those who speak more than one language in public is nothing new. It's something kids and grandkids have delt with for decades. You can deal with it as well OP. Try harder. You can and should do so. And yes, it isn't always easy.

No but amongst my “real” friends our world view and voting intentions combined with discussion of current affairs come up.

Do you then stop being friends with them just because they voted differently to you.

Do you then stop being friends with them just because they voted differently to you.

No, none of them vote for UKip/Brexit or Tory though.

Must be very weird living in such a bubble.

Maybe, maybe not.

My dad has always been a working class Tory voter, and my brother was a farmer for 30 years, and like many farmers was also a Tory voter. I've never voted Tory and find some of their opinions quite amusing. The key point though is that our political differences have never once got in the way of our relationships - there's more to life (my mum died very young so maybe that focused priorities a bit more sharply). He's in his 80s now and for the sake of me and his grandchildren im not going to waste that time.

Another thing that came up earlier in this thread was people using the term "old", a description often used in relation to "old" people robbing younger generations of their future etc. I struggle a bit with this in terms of defining what "old" is. My dad still works (runs his own business out of a van) and pays taxes etc… so someone who is 60 might yet have 20 years work ahead of them - so it's as much their future as anyone else's.