You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
at significant expense
I'd argue you can't afford not to with your energy bills.
Go on, price up enough Kingspan and wood to do the walls of the rooms you spend most time in then ban yourself from STW when you're not at work and get on with it.
You're telling us to get on with brexit life, I'm sure you won't mind being told to cut your CO2 emissions, live in comfort and save yourself money long term as long term benefits seem to apeal to you however intangible.
We've so far had a couple of benefits to Brexit which involve breaking foreign rules and putting foreigners in danger or immoral financial practices, we may as well derail the thread to save the planet. 🙂
Anyhow I've run out of things to say about Brexit till the next newspaper article on another downside.
The only way to make it materially better is to move towards SM/CU membership.
Ah that’ll be a Brexit Benefit 🙂
Kingspan is sodding expensive. Govt should place a massive order at a low price and sell it on cheaply to homeowners or builders. There'd be far more take-up then. Far better than printing money for banks.
That princess he rescued was a bit forward thou 🙂
dudeofdoomFull Member
The only way to make it materially better is to move towards SM/CU membership.
Ah that’ll be a Brexit Benefit 🙂
yes the only real benefit is that we can now join the EU, that wasn’t possible back in 2016. Would do wonders for our economy and also open up so many opportunities for the younger generations. Why don’t the brexiters propose it?
I voted for the tories in what seems like the distant past – they used to seem to be the party that would run the country best economically, thus having the potential to make everyone better off. But the last decade or so they’ve been an economic disaster.
Tories have always been terrible at economic growth and management. They just have better 🐂 💩 and PR than labour who, sadly, aren’t different enough. Example https://reunido.uniovi.es/index.php/EBL/article/view/15231
Tories have only ever had interest in making themselves better off. Whether that comes at the expense or gain of other people is of no meaning to them. This may have been the only real difference between the two major parties in terms of espoused values.
That they have been responsible for the most divisive, reckless, and self-harming political change (BREXIT) this century is an indictment of their solipsistic world view.
brexit benefits? It showed how craven, foolish, short-sighted, and solipsistic the Tories are and ushered in the most effective demonstration of their limited capabilities at government. Sadly folks continue to believe their nonsense and vote them in.
Thinking the tories are the party for the people economically is unfortunately well set in a lot of peoples mind. Even after the last 13 years a lot of people will still be thinking Labour are going to give all 'your' money away to scroungers and waste it on mad ideas like nationalising stuff and it is safer with the tories.
People simply don't understand how a countries economy works and what is actually best for them and they have been misled for 50 years.
If the emotion and populism was taken out of the Brexit vote and every voter was armed with objective data on the actual impact of immigration, the actual impact of EU laws, the actual impact of what we were allowed to do independently or not, the very likely pros and cons of what it would be like after the event etc,. I really don't think Leave would have won.
Not always, Ted Heath took Britain into the Common Market, made u-turn to the left whereas Starmer regularly u-turns to the right, lost to the miners... . 😉
If the emotion and populism was taken out of the Brexit vote and every voter was armed with objective data... I really don’t think Leave would have won.
If, for example, a democratically elected group of representatives got together to discuss the supposed issues in an open forum, then made their decisions based on all the evidence provided, along with any pressing mandate(s) and feedback from their constituents, then voted on it several times to get it accepted or not?
Or we could have had an incredibly simplified 'Yes/No' X-Factor style vote, that was democratic in name only.
Leave was always going to win.
In terms of benefits; a lot of people now understand that hugely complex issues shouldn't be reduced to binary decisions in the name of democracy.
a lot of people now understand that hugely complex issues shouldn’t be reduced to binary decisions in the name of democracy.
I'd wager that if you asked people if having a referendum on EU membership was a good idea or not most would still say yes. The issue of holding the referendum itself and whether leaving was a good idea or not are two separate things. The tories won the 2015 election because they offered a referendum, and then they delivered on their promise. In that sense democracy worked just fine.
Most people who voted in 2019 voted for parties offering a referendum, there was no referendum. Was that also democracy working “just fine”? Or is this a pick and choose thing, where every voting sentiment in favour of Brexit is pure democracy justifying any chosen approach to our neighbours that politicians want, and all voices calling against “a leave at all cost with the most barriers” approach as anti-democratic? That’s pretty much all we’ve heard for 7 long years… with democracy frozen and battered and trying and failing to recover from a mess of a referendum and its multiple campaigns.
I'm sure there are some people who think a "Brexit benefit" is that it "restored people's faith in UK democracy", but I suspect many more are now far more concerned about how the UK is run and the part we as voters get to play in that than they were before 2015.
I’d wager that if you asked people if having a referendum on EU membership was a good idea or not most would still say yes.
This is exactly the problem with Brexit, and indicates the problem with referendums very well. A vague question allows everyone to imagine any result they want, and then believe that that is what they are voting for. Is it a good idea to have a referendum? Arguably yes. Was it a good idea to have the referendum question that we had, with the government we had, with the level of education we had, and the press we had? Obviously not.
A vague question allows everyone to imagine any result they want
Do you want to remain in the EU or leave? Is that a vague question? Seems pretty straightforward to me. 🤷♂️
Do you want to remain in the EU or leave? Is that a vague question? Seems pretty straightforward to me
Depends on what you think "leave" actually meant.
A cursory look at what was being promised by the brexiteers indicates unless no one believed them then what people voted for wasnt necessarily what they got.
Depends on what you think “leave” actually meant.
It means what it says. Either we are in the EU, or we're not. Pretty sure most people understood that, it's a simple binary choice. I know what you're getting at, which is did people fully understand the implications of leaving, but that's not what the question was. In any election or vote the onus is on the voter to decide what they want as they see fit. If someone wanted to vote to leave the EU without understanding the issues that's their right. That's how democracy works.
Is that a vague question?
I remember at the time Cameron being criticized becasue the referendum was so broadly (un)defined . I mean, on the face of it, yes it seems pretty straightforward, but when no-one is saying was comes after or what changes it might mean, or even what leaving means on purpose. Then yes, it's a vague question.
which is did people fully understand the implications of leaving
No, clearly they didn't as it was deliberate choice not to have easy to understand explanations given to people
That’s how democracy works.
If you deliberately don't tell people what the implications are, then by definition it's not democracy.
If people voted to be “like Norway”, their vote has been ignored just as much as someone who voted to “stay an EU member but not be in the core group of Euro countries adopting closer integration”. Don’t blame the voters for agreeing with the multiple conflicting campaigns. The problem has been with what was sold, how it was sold, and how it has since been interpreted by politicians with minority support using a referendum to justify their own approaches only fully announced after the vote was cast.
If a Brexit benefit was "more engagement in politics" by more of the public, I fear it's left a sour taste in the mouth for many of them, however they voted in that referendum.
Either we are in the EU, or we’re not.
So if we weren’t going to be in the EU, does that mean we are giving up the four freedoms, in or out of the CU, in or out of the SM?
The referendum question was in retrospect a bit vague really wasn’t it? Everyone interpreted it differently.
The vagueness didn’t really affect me directly as I wanted to remain, but leave voters really should have worked out what they were voting for. If they didn’t, they don’t really have grounds for complaint whatever happens to them. Remain voters do.
If people voted to be “like Norway”, their vote has been ignored just as much as someone who voted to “stay an EU member
Yet another group of people who were lied to by politicians who had absolutely no plans whatsoever other than the very hardest of no-deal leaving on their minds.
The transformation from "we can be like any number of semi-in/out European states" to "Anything other than no-deal is leaving in name only and betrayal of the people's voice" happened literally the day after the vote.
If they didn’t, they don’t really have grounds for complaint whatever happens to them.
I don't agree. "Voters" didn't set out what was being voted for, the campaigners did. They were failed by politicians four times...
- politicians failed to set out what would happen when detailing the advisory referendum
- politicians converted an advisory referendum into an actionable one, only after it was set in motion
- politicians then offered all things to all people, without any need for any of it to be delivered
- politicians used the result to retrospectively claim support for their own new proposals
...it's not really the fault of voters if they voted for one thing but were delivered something entirely different... even if that looked inevitable to many of us (if only because of the contradictions between the different campaign "proposals", never mind the bending of reality that a total lack of accountability enabled).
Still... Brexit benefits... bonus points if it's something not contrary to what voters were told back before the vote... GO!
@kelvin - I have sympathy with your disagreement, though I do feel if when you look at something you are being promise umpteen mutually exclusive things, then you’re probably being promised nothing, and that probably was clear.
Just for information in passing
For example, Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan said during an interview in 2015 that: "To repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market".
That is a different stance compared to the main claims of Leave campaigners, and Mr Hannan’s wording isn’t consistent across the interview itself either. Earlier on, he said "absolutely nobody is suggesting we would give up our position in the free market in Europe".
when wage inflation is outstripped by actual inflation it makes people poorer…
are people really that economically illiterate?
Absolutely. The amount of people who think that inflation dropping down will lead to price cuts is staggering. The whole system of inflation and interest on the whole is deeply misunderstood hence lots of people only ever worrying about 'the monthlies' on big purchases via credit. Explain to someone that if they have a £200k mortgage that by the end of it they will have paid the same amount in interest they won't believe you, some genuinely think it's a few thousand pounds or less! When people hear that the GDP has dropped 2% they think it's meaningless, not the hundreds of millions it actually is.
The population as a whole are complete dunces when it comes to financial matters.
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
You are either being obtuse or you are incredibly stupid. Just because a question doesn't have many words in it, or any big words, does not mean that it's a simple question. 'Leave the EU' is an incredibly vague concept, encompassing a huge variety of both fantasies and nightmares.
On the old brexit thread, I used to find myself agreeing with you quite often. On this one, not so much. I don't know if it's you or me that's changed.
If you deliberately don’t tell people what the implications are, then by definition it’s not democracy.
An educated electorate is one of the tenets of democracy IIRC.
As are politicians who don't lie.
Also: Things that I think @dazh is absolutely on the money about .
1. As far as Brexit is concerned; we are where we are, and on the list of things that need sorting urgently, re-joining the EU can wait.
2. More democratic structures are in this country both badly needed and sadly lacking
Agreed on both points.
Pretending that the referendum was an improvement on politics as usual (bad enough as that is) doesn't help further either of those points though. Nor does trying to pretend the results of leaving are positive when they overwhelming aren't. Much of the work that needs to be done to improve the lives of people living in the UK is made more difficult by either pretending the Brexit vote was a democratic success, or that we have given ourselves an advantage by introducing barriers to trade and free movement with our closest neighbours.
So... the benefits then... we need to know what they are so as to not risk losing them or not taking advantage of them... what are they...? GO!
On the old brexit thread, I used to find myself agreeing with you quite often. On this one, not so much. I don’t know if it’s you or me that’s changed.
When the facts change you're allowed to change your mind 🙂
When the facts change you’re allowed to change your mind
Of course. But, relating to Brexit at least, I don't think there has been any significant change in the facts for what... 7 years? Although I think a lot of people have become rather bored with the facts...
A Brexit benefit for intensive farmers is that the EU has banned precautionary use of antibiotics in farming, ie, giving animals antibiotic before they're ill. The UK still permits it. It's a serious disbenefit for anyone who may need antibiotics in future (ie, anyone), as it's one of the main things speeding up evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria.
If you deliberately don’t tell people what the implications are, then by definition it’s not democracy.
There was something like a 9 month campaign where all anyone talked about were the implications. Obviously there were two sides saying different things but you really can't say it wasn't discussed. The problem was the ambiguity about what sort of deal the govt would seek if we left, but that wasn't on the ballot. Maybe it should have been, but then many on here who are/were against a referendum want us to put faith in representative democracy, which is what happened in this case.
On the old brexit thread, I used to find myself agreeing with you quite often. On this one, not so much. I don’t know if it’s you or me that’s changed.
The brexit thread went on for around 3-4 years so it depends what period you're talking about. My views on brexit being bad never changed (they still haven't), but my view on the remain campaign (and it's supporters) and how they subsequently conducted themselves did change significantly. Back then it was hard to step back and be properly objective or understand it properly, now we have the benefit of hindsight, so hardly a surprise some opinions have changed.
But, relating to Brexit at least, I don’t think there has been any significant change in the facts for what… 7 years?
There has. In 2016 we didn't know what sort of Brexit we'd get. Of course, we suspected, but it was not fixed and that ambiguity was what enabled the leave campaign to get way more votes. They were promising different things to different people, including the moon on a stick. Now we know mostly what Brexit's going to look like and far fewer people want it like this, which is why support has plummeted.
molgrips
In 2016 we didn’t know what sort of Brexit we’d get. . . .They were promising different things to different people, including the moon on a stick. Now we know mostly what Brexit’s going to look like . . .
Poo on a stick.
Now we know mostly what Brexit’s going to look like and far fewer people want it like this, which is why support has plummeted.
I recently asked my in-laws and they still stand by their decision to vote leave which utterly astounds me given the state we are in now. Well, it shouldn't really as they read the Daily Express so continue to be fed bollocks for breakfast.
I recently asked my in-laws and they still stand by their decision to vote leave which utterly astounds me given the state we are in now.
No idea why it astounds you. The vast majority of people who voted out will have seen very little change to their lives and those who have any doubts will probably be of the view that it's too early to judge whether it's a success or not. Also there's a significant number of people who voted out 'for better or worse' on a general point of principle. You/we may disagree with them but they're entitled to their opinion whether it makes sense to us or not.
The numbers say lots of folk ain’t as keen on Brexit as they were in 2016.
hardly a surprise some opinions have changed
Agreed - I wanted to meet the Brexies halfway given the squeaking a 50:50 ish vote by the narrowest of margins. Leave the EU but maintain the 4 freedoms, common market mechanisms etc - that sort of thing.
But after they labelled the judiciary, non-Brexy politicians and folk like me traitors, I basically felt they wanted fighting at every turn. Their behaviour since hasn’t really changed much and that late 2016, 2017 opinion remains.
Hypocritical untrustworthy crooks.
Poo on a stick.
Poo at both ends of a stick youre holding too.
You/we may disagree with them but they’re entitled to their opinion whether it makes sense to us or not.
I was talking to my elderly neighbour just tonight. A taxi driver had blocked off the street to drop off a fare. His comment was "well they're all p@kis now anyway."
Suppose he's entitled to his opinion.
Their behaviour since hasn’t really changed much and that late 2016, 2017 opinion remains.
It has changed, the vast majority of people who voted to leave have long since moved on because they got what they wanted. It’s gone 180 degrees the other way. Before 2016-2019 there were a load of brexit supporters who were bitter about their views not being heard and/or implemented after the referendum, whereas now it’s the opposite with remainers refusing to accept they lost and continuing to fight battles that were decided in 2016. It serves no one’s purpose to be continually raking over old ground. For those of us who hated the idea of brexit, we need to accept that things have changed.
Suppose he’s entitled to his opinion.
He is unfortunately. You can’t stop people having opinions. You can stop them gaining an audience for those opinions (as I’ve argued about climate conspiracy trolls), but you can’t stop them having those opinions.
the point is they didn't get what they wanted
we're poorer, the NHS is more screwed than ever, immigration is even more out of control (if u believe Lee Anderson... & they do)
you can't shutdown democracy like that daz, the day after the vote , it didn't stop
SM membership will be back on the cards in a GE or 2
whats telling is that despite the title of the thread youve not been able to come up with an actual benefit yer daz....
the point is they didn’t get what they wanted
How do you know what they wanted? They voted to leave the EU, now we're no longer in the EU. Seems pretty obvious to me they got exactly what they wanted.
we’re poorer, the NHS is more screwed than ever, immigration is even more out of control
All things which are directly dependent on UK govt policy whether we are in the EU or not. All these issues are far more complicated than simply being in the EU. We've been getting poorer since the 80s, the NHS has been on the slide since 2010, and immigration has been a 'problem' (interesting to hear a remainer describe immigration as a problem BTW) forever.
you can’t shutdown democracy like that daz, the day after the vote , it didn’t stop
True, but there is stuff that is possible, and stuff that isn't. Rejoining the EU is the latter.
SM membership will be hack on the cards in a GE or 2
Probably yes. Or something that looks a lot like it without formally being in the SM. In 10 years I doubt many who voted to leave will be too bothered about it, they'll be worrying about other stuff.
whats telling is that despite the title of the thread youve not been able to come up with a single specific benefit yer daz….
Funny that given I don't think there are many benefits. But go back up the thread and you'll find at least one I think is a significant benefit assuming Starmer doesn't f*** it all up.
<p style="text-align: left;">interesting to hear a remainer describe immigration as a problem BTW)</p>
which is why i very clearly said "if u believe lee Anderson" which you chose to ignore
All these issues are far more complicated than simply being in the EU
the point is (and im not sure if youre deliberately missing it) is that the leave campaign promised all those things would improve... the very opposite has happened
youre still being very vague with these benefits, not mentioned anything specific
As benefits are not forthcoming may be better to ask the question what can the UK technically do now that it could not do when in the EU.
Having a list of the things the UK can now do you could try and work out where any benefits could be gained by exercising any of them.
I admit I don't really know what is on that list as it seems a lot of the 'benefits' are things that could have largely been done while in the EU.
True, but there is stuff that is possible, and stuff that isn’t. Rejoining the EU is the latte
so you claim. there is no actual reason why not
SM membership will be hack on the cards in a GE or 2
It will be an issue in the next GE as well and labour are going to have to defend their position
what can the UK technically do now that it could not do when in the EU.
It can do its own trade deals. However as a relatively small and insignificant country these are likely to be worse than what we had through the EU, even if the EU deals weren't specifically designed for us (they were of course designed with our input and cooperation).
The UK can also set its own environmental and working standards, and we can see how that is working out for (a) the workers (b) the owners and (c) the residents of these shit-encrusted islands.
whereas now it’s the opposite with remainers refusing to accept they lost and continuing to fight battles that were decided in 2016.
Once again, your argument fails you. You could equally argue this was sorted in the 70s and the Brexies should have just put up with it.
You can have it either way - fight in or don’t. But not both.
As for leave voters moving on, agreed, according to polls many now regret Brexit and are considering another referendum at some point.
The Brexy press and the Brexy elites, less so. They are the ones who should be in the dock for the damage they have done to this country.
Not everything is their fault - but they knowingly caused further damage.
Another referendum is just going to mess us about yet again, there is no way in this world that we get back in the EU with the same preferential status we had, France moved fast to make sure they swept up what they could, and the likes of Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc did the same, Germany and the Netherlands were about the only real allies wanting us to stay (i know there were a couple more, but can't quite remember which ones).
I just don't see the framework of the EU staying in place over the next 20 years, there's so much change happening just now, there's a move to the far right with a few countries, Russian allegiances with others, then the likes of France are always more inwardly looking, the whole thing feels like the frying pan and fire scenario just now.
Personally, i'll wait for a change in government before any thoughts of how we progress, just now the only positive is that the Pro Brexit brigade aren't getting what they want either, and whinging about it, the loss of a tory government would destroy any hopes of the full brexit they dream off.
I just don’t see the framework of the EU staying in place over the next 20 years
People have confidently predicted 38 of the last zero times the EU fell apart.
It serves no one’s purpose to be continually raking over old ground.
It’s not “old ground” when it’s current and ongoing. You seem to simultaneously think that “Brexit is done” and that we have to wait a long time to see the benefits. So… what goes in that gap? How to we get to the point where we “make the most of Brexit” without discussing the “Benefits of Brexit” that we’re trying to grasp here in this thread? That makes no more sense than ignoring the problems caused by Brexit that still need resolving.
For those of us who hated the idea of brexit, we need to accept that things have changed.
Not just changed. Are changing and need changing. If you don’t discuss any of that you’re sticking your head in the sand and saying “shut up”. Why would you do that?
The UK can also set its own environmental and working standards, and we can see how that is working out for (a) the workers (b) the owners and (c) the residents of these shit-encrusted islands.
<p style="text-align: left;">unfortunately for us those concerns will take a back seat: to make up for what we've lost government of any flavour will sacrifice those very things if it means a trade deal or getting any sort of competitive edge</p>
All I can say to the likes of Daz is never forget, never forgive. It was the leftist pipe dream peddled by the likes of Corbyn that leaving the EU would allow us to bolster workers rights and prop up failing businesses (in sectors they approved of) that ultimately enabled Brexit. Most enhanced rights for people in the UK were driven by EU membership, not by any UK government.
I just don’t see the framework of the EU staying in place over the next 20 years
Twenty years is a long time thou for a prediction thou,no-one thought we’d be out of the eu one year before the referendum was announced.(as it wasn’t a thing)
It’s removing the freedom of movement from the kids that doesn’t sit well with me.
As we continue the Brexit voyage more and more I think it was a selfish/spiteful act.
He says sat in his pants outside a Spanish Villa.
Now that’s an opportunity that’s been lost to many unless you’ve a pile of money.
I think it’s gone from proving €9k a year income to €36k for a couple (oottomh).
and just to make my point about environmental standards being thrown under the brexit bus now we're free from the shackles of Brussels....
Queueing at the passport check. The English do like a queue.
so you claim. there is no actual reason why not
There is no reason that you can see. However everyone else can.
Queueing at the passport check. The English do like a queue.
Only if everyone is queuing properly, otherwise thats a recipe for PTSD
and just to make my point about environmental standards being thrown under the brexit bus now we’re free from the shackles of Brussels….
Oh that's a big part of Lil' Richie's pitch for the next GE, they've convinced themselves with the narrative from Uxbridge that enviro-skeptics are the new front to the culture war and that by using their Brexity freedoms they can piss on policy, prior commitments and laws in order to score votes... The thing is I really don't believe it's the vote winner they think...
As for leave voters moving on
Have to admit, I dont know anyone that hasnt moved on from the referendum itself, but you can't actually move on from Brexit as we are living with the consequences and we all will be living with those consequences for the rest of our lives. Thats how historical events work, the set the path for the future. Those impacts may well fade over time, or they may prove pivotal but they never actually stop existing.
Even in some world where we managed to grow up and reconcile our differences with the EU and rejoined we would be dealing with the consequences of Brexit due to having different terms agreed on rejoining.
The thing is I really don’t believe it’s the vote winner they think…
It's not. The Australian conservatives tried the same thing and they lost miserably. What it does need though is Starmer to stick to labour's green poicies without watering them down. Given his limp-wristed u-turning to date that doesn't bode well.
All I can say to the likes of Daz is never forget, never forgive. It was the leftist pipe dream peddled by the likes of Corbyn
If you want to live your life like that go for it, but it seems like a one way ticket to bad stuff from where I'm looking. And no, hardly anyone, including Corbyn, was campaigning for brexit from a leftist standpoint. Say what you like about brexit, but it wasn't leftists who made it happen.
and immigration has been a ‘problem’ (interesting to hear a remainer describe immigration as a problem BTW) forever.
immigration is what you make it... or what I mean by that is the "issue" or "problem" isn't the immigration itself but how that is managed.
Most people (including immigrants) are xenophobic, it's human nature but people in general seem to have less issue when immigrants join a community than establish there own. You could say the same thing for English people in Wales or Scots in England .. the difference partly is they don't stick out unless they wear kilts and open their mouths.. whereas someone with a different skin colour can't help but stick out
This is to a large extent what racists exploit to try and create a fear in perfectly normal xenophobes.
immigration is what you make it… or what I mean by that is the “issue” or “problem” isn’t the immigration itself but how that is managed.
Totally agree. The UK should join Schengen as other non-EU countries have. Probably a pipedream though given our* little-englander attitude. Give it a decade or so though I don't think it would be completely outlandish to think we could in both the SM (or something similar without formal membership) and Schengen. Maybe those are reasonable goals to aim for rather than rejoining? As long as leave voters can still say 'we're out' then I doubt they care too much about the rest of it. We need to get over the racism around immigration though.
*mostly a South East/Home counties problem IMO. I reckon the north would have no problem with free movement.
Say what you like about brexit, but it wasn’t leftists who made it happen.
Semantics, they fully enabled it, if Corbyn had come out positively pro EU we'd still be members. Corbyn might not have actively campaigned for a leftist idealogical Brexit but he sure as hell wanted it and all he had to do was sit on the fence or better still be completely absent which was exactly what he did. In my book hed be up against the wall alongside Johnson, Farage et al.
Corbyn had one job to do, counter the lunacy of the sitting government, he failed miserably then gifted them a massive majority.
It's interesting that Corbyn is considered a "Leftist". I'd have characterised him as a left leaning "Liberal" (more left than most of his party) he was after all leader of a mainstream democratic party.
Labour is just another Centrist party, a bit more Liberal in their outlook, but really not the radical leftists the Tory's keep trying to paint them as. They're not going to shake much up and they are cognisant of the fact that too much radical change, too fast will spook the cattle...
Right now the UK needs a more liberal/progressive, centrist government, that will implement environmental and socially responsible policies and start re-tooling our economy towards those goals. We certainly don't have that now, we might get that from Labour, perhaps. Nobody really knows for sure do they, maybe not even SKS. But if the nation was willing to take a gamble on Boris, I can't see how Kier is any worse...
Anyway if Brexit is going to give us anything it's got to be the ability to do a UK version of the US' "Green New Deal" i.e. protectionism under the banner of "environmental capitalism" if they can't even do that, which is arguably a big chunk of what was promised, then yes I'm not sure what else Brexity types can really claim as a win...
What it does need though is Starmer to stick to labour’s green poicies without watering them down. Given his limp-wristed u-turning to date that doesn’t bode well.
So basically your only benefit is just another for the 'potential' list since it doesn't look like Labour are going to realise it.
Let's change the question though, you want us to accept it and make the most of it.
How? Tell us what to make the most of.
Isn’t that the great game of Brexit, it’s not working as you ‘You’ haven’t took advantage of the potential.
The onus is always on the person asking about it.
It’s a magical thing 🙂
7 years in and it’s still unicorns.
Reading Daz's output here is like a Monty Python sketch.
"The potential benefits are obvious to anyone as clever as me."
"Oh? What are they then?"
"I've told you once!"
Pretend that you think we're all thick (well, you don't really need to pretend do you) and remind us? Literally everyone else here has clearly missed one of your posts where you explained it all in great detail.
Reading Daz’s output here is like a Monty Python sketch.
“The potential benefits are obvious to anyone as clever as me.”
“Oh? What are they then?”
“I’ve told you once!”
Pretend that you think we’re all thick (well, you don’t really need to pretend do you) and remind us? Literally everyone else here has clearly missed one of your posts where you explained it all in great detail.
THIS - I came in just to see if anything useful had been said but it's the same old same old. "In X yrs blah blah, it hasn't worked because Y didn't do yada yada yada...."
NOT ONE SINGLE POSITIVE..
*mostly a South East/Home counties problem IMO. I reckon the north would have no problem with free movement.
Care to quantify that??? Or do you think it's only the South who have the monopoly on narrow minded biggots.....
Say what you like about brexit, but it wasn’t leftists who made it happen.
REALLY??????
Conveniently forgetting Corbyn's 3 line whip to get A50 over the line are we???
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38833883
Ten pages and counting, nine of which are mostly mirroring the main Brexit thread. I'm surprised it's not been closed.
So, brexit benefits, then?
There are benefits, of course. Just not for the people who voted for it. Or against it. Or didn't. Or couldn't.
The biggest brexit benefit is for the entire EU27. They get shot of a whiny pissant country with delusions of adequacy who still thinks it rules the waves. It also killed stone dead any signs of dissent from other countries, once we'd committed harakiri to demonstrate just how bloody stupid it would be without some actual thought and proper planning in place first.
I bet Putin is loving it. There's nothing the top nobs in Russia would like more than to destabilise the West.
Meanwhile, back in good old Blighty, it's been hugely lucrative for those who don't like paying tax from their offshore bank accounts. For Billy the greengrocer however, he's somewhere between "useful idiot" and "collateral damage." Hey Billy, remember strawberries?
*mostly a South East/Home counties problem IMO. I reckon the north would have no problem with free movement.
Care to quantify that??? Or do you think it’s only the South who have the monopoly on narrow minded biggots…..
They're everywhere. Plenty in Wales, Scotland and the other parts of England. Basically the bits of the country where immigrants, illegal or legal, aren't commonplace.
Anyway if Brexit is going to give us anything it’s got to be the ability to do a UK version of the US’ “Green New Deal” i.e. protectionism under the banner of “environmental capitalism”
You are aware that the EU is doing this already, aren’t you? And signing up to work with the USA on it. We’re being left behind. And without a Time Machine Labour won’t be catching us up if and when they eventually take power… they may well do what needs doing to not fall further behind (the Tories are literally running us in the opposite direction) but we’ll start from well behind because of Brexit (assuming of course in this parallel non Brexit scenario the UK wasn’t sabotaging the EU plans).
So… Brexit benefit… we can do green subsidy focussed protectionism on a smaller scale with a much smaller market than either the USA or EU. And in reality end up doing so later, if at all. Even if you spin it well, the reality is still slower, smaller, and likely a lower return on investment and a smaller green industry manufacturing base than if we’d been acting as part of the EU.
A better way to stop Brexit would have been Corbyn getting whole heartedly behind it.
Brexit belongs to the Tories and the right. And it'll be the left that saves us from this mess.
Cougar
Reading Daz’s output here is like a Monty Python sketch.
TBH can't decide if the whole of Brexit is more "what did the Romans ever do for us" or "if I want to put a condom on my john thomas"...
**** me this thread is depressing.
Did you expect anything else from the topic description? There's nothing uplifting or happy at all about it!
But, it's about benefits!
That must be good, right?