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Multiple polls show an ever increasing majority for rapprochement with the EU including the 4 freedoms.
Apart from a few weeks in 2016, this has always been the case. Stifling the UK to placate a minority is ongoing. It’s frustrating, but you need to acknowledge why that is happening, and voice a path to changing that. Just wishing the PM would tear up his promises to key demographics in England that helped elect the MPs needed to form a government isn’t enough. How does any PM propose bringing back freedom of movement, and then get a mandate for that, with votes in England being distributed as they are? A lot has to change before that is possible.
Well, no. Nor 'Norway solutions' or similar, but here we are. ?
Begret steadily building…
Just 10% of 18-24 year olds think it was the right decision.
As we wait for the older Breixiteers to shuffle off, plus the passage of time lending perspective, the understanding of how awful Brexshit has been will grow. The younger generation has been hardest hit, and as they will respond as they mature.
By next parliament elections there will be calls from some of our politicians about rejoining. In a decade there will be exploring of the practical options.
I admire your optimism Matt,but I fear in a decade the EU will be even more splintered as the big disrupters give it ( and the UK) a kicking.
Meanwhile the UK (to me) feels like it is making itself less and less attractive as beneficial partner.
More wonderful evidence of how Brexit was sold vs the reality....
It’s ok - we just need to take back control….& Nige knows how to do it. TL:DR? He hasn’t a fing clue…
Just 10% of 18-24 year olds think it was the right decision
2 things. Thing 1; the 18-24 year olds are the least likely group to vote and thing 2; that figure rises to about 60% amongst conservative Boomer voters who do go out to vote.
Yup, hence any attempt to turn things around wouldn’t get far… either a general election or referendum would have the oldies out to stop any attempt to join the EU, or cooperate with it in any way that means free movement is back (even/especially if that free movement was for young workers and students only). But the direction of travel is clear. Given time the voting population will be demanding the fix that’s needed.
Thr calls from other parties are getting louder. The demographics is bobbins anyway with a huge majority across the country in all areas wanting back in. Even in Farages seat only a small minority think brexit a good idea.
Stop accepting the lies that there is no way back and no majority to do so
There was a thing on P1 (Radio 1 equivalent, but not with the pop music... think BBC1, but radio, as opposed to 6Music) about Brexit. Sveriges Radio had their London chap talk to people and the thrust was more toward that attitudes had changed and there were generally fewer people in favour of Brexit and generally more people that thought rejoining was a good idea.
Note: This was London, this was Swedish radio
And the OBR's other working assumption is that the fall in trade relative to otherwise will reduce the long-term size of the UK economy by around 4% relative to otherwise, equivalent to roughly £100bn in today's money.
From the BBC article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrynjz1glpo
Hey Rachel, there's some growth over there without the need to expand a ****ing airport
Hey Rachel, there’s some growth over there without the need to expand a **** airport
Yep. But she's not allowed to talk about it and neither is Starmer.
Don't mention the Brexit.
A serious non bexiteer politcians view. Well worth a read if you want an antidote to the brexiteer cool aid that is all you get from Westminster
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/31/scotland-brexit-britain-labour-eu-europe
I fairness Reeves did say brexit had cost a lot of GDP when pushed in a recent interview. Her remedy was to go for growth to replace it. An obvious nonsense
Fundamentally the will to rejoin needs to be overwhelming in Westminster as well as the general pop. We're not there yet. I wish it were different. Get over it. (Speaking as someone who's work is impeded by it on a routine basis)
I will never get over it. The cowardice and outright lies from Labour is so damaging.
Starmer has painted himself into the brexiteer corner and has not got the political courage to break out. Its not weak to say you have made a mistake
There is a vast majority in Westminster for return to the CU. Starmer is now the main person keeping us out. I will never forgive labour until they reverse this damaging policyand apologise for the damage done
Starmer is acting against public opinion.: is compounding the economic damage and is acting against the countries interest. Its going to cost both labour and the country dearly
Starmer says he is not afraid of unpopular decisions. Why not make this popular one?
I found a brexit benefit!
Apparently, in a change of tune, Piers Morgan is pissed off about it.
If I'd known that in 2016 I'd have voted Leave myself.
disagree that starmer is acting against the public's interest. it's a long road back to the EU, even if it's worth going back to, with economic stagnation and right wing politics both becoming more prevalent there. IMHO it's definitely worth it given the situation in the US, and fast, but there are negotiations happening this year, so nothing will happen before then.
Politics is a team sport that some seem to not understand.
Of course it is in the uk interest. Massive boost to trade and security and prosperity and there are no negotiations of any significance happening . Thete cannot be until we actually implement the WA.
that there are going to be negotiations next year is another labour lie. . Its a review thats all.
The WA is not going to be rrenegotiated while we are in multiple breaches of it and haven't fully implemented it. The eu have made this 100% clear
The review next year is not for substantive renegotiation and anyway Starmers red lines mean nothing of sugnificance could be negotiated even if there were actual renegotiations going to happen
Listen to what the EU side say not labours lies they wsnt you to believe
This week’s Countryfile… a summary… it’s all ****ed and going to be more ****ed.
Interesting segment in countryfile this evening:-(
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0027nn4
”Meanwhile, Joe Crowley investigates concerns over new border checks and the impact they could have on farmers and our food.”
Starts about halfway through.
Did we find one? (VAT on private school fees)
As a firm believer in a decent education for everyone I personally see VAT on these fees as a benefit. According to the ruling:
’The judges noted that adding 20% to private school fees would not have been possible under EU law, stating: “This is therefore one respect in which the UK’s exit from the EU has increased the scope of parliament’s freedom to determine policy.”’
the VAT is NOT on School fees. what is happening is that their VAT exempt status as charities has been removed. I see zero reason why this could not have been done under the EU
As part of the Brexit celebrations, I bring you a return to the huge list of Brexit benefits 🙂
To me it looks like the EU does require that all education is VAT exempt. However, the UK was always free to collect VAT on all the portions of the fees that didn't directly relate to classroom teaching.
I'm sure accountants would have had a field day proving that it costs £49,999 per year for a child to sit in a classroom but only £1 for everything else but now this at least simplifies things as you just charge VAT on everything. I'd imagine that's why just having the entire thing being VAT exempt through charitable status would seem like the simpler option for everyone.
To me this is a bit of a non-issue in terms of the country's finances but it is seen as punishing the upper-middle class which for some is important. I'm against private schools (or rather, I'm against state schools being so under-funded that private schools become an attractive option) but this honestly feels more political.
I'm not putting it down as a Brexit benefit because ultimately state schools are still underfunded and this does little if anything to fix that.
I had a lovely banana earlier this week, the top bent in the opposite direction to the bottom. it was sort of mostly straight too.
I'm pretty sure I was told that wouldn't have been allowed pre brexit.
it's great that it's created an opportunity for DrySure to mop up all those surplus bendy banana guards.
the VAT is NOT on School fees. what is happening is that their VAT exempt status as charities has been removed.
Soz Teej, you're wrong. There's no such thing as a 'VAT exempt status for charities'. What is different about VAT for charities is the amount they pay for certain goods, not the amount they charge for VATable sales.
What this legislation does (I think, I am happy to be corrected) is say that private school fees are VATable sales, whereas before they weren't.
I had a lovely banana earlier this week, the top bent in the opposite direction to the bottom. it was sort of mostly straight too.
I'm pretty sure I was told that wouldn't have been allowed pre brexit.
it's great that it's created an opportunity for DrySure to mop up all those surplus bendy banana guards.
I know you're joking of course, but the whole thing about the EU (banning? enforcing? I forget) banana curvature was simply part of a (proposed?) classification system.
It's like eggs, Grade A eggs sold to consumers in the UK/EU have to be whole eggs of sufficient quality with their source clearly labelled; Grade B can broken and then pasteurised; ungraded eggs can still be sold but not for food (eg, they might be used in the manufacture of soap). I could be wrong but I don't recall a public outcry about the EU banning the sale of cracked eggs.
I know you're joking of course, but the whole thing about the EU (banning? enforcing? I forget) banana curvature was simply part of a (proposed?) classification system.
...which, at the time, was appallingly misleadingly 'explained' as 'Brussels Bans Bent Bananas' by one Mr B Johnson, who was then the Brussels correspondent for the Telegraph. Indeed, much of the anti-EU bullshit that persisted for so long in the popular consciousness can be traced back to his 'journalistic' tenure there
Mr B Johnson
Oh, but wasn't he such a character?
I mean he might not always be everyone's cup of tea, but a bit of a rogue is so much more interesting than normal, boring politicians, eh? He really ran rings around those absurd EU bureaucrats, didn't he?
FFS.
Oh, but wasn't he such a character?
The last word there is incorrect but the correct one will get asterisked and also starts with a C.
I know you're joking of course, but the whole thing about the EU (banning? enforcing? I forget) banana curvature was simply part of a (proposed?) classification system.
...which, at the time, was appallingly misleadingly 'explained' as 'Brussels Bans Bent Bananas' by one Mr B Johnson, who was then the Brussels correspondent for the Telegraph. Indeed, much of the anti-EU bullshit that persisted for so long in the popular consciousness can be traced back to his 'journalistic' tenure there
For the avoidance of doubt, the EU legislation simply states: Bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature".
That's literally it.
Full regulations here if interested 😆 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994R2257:20060217:EN:PDF
Soz Teej, you're wrong. There's no such thing as a 'VAT exempt status for charities'. What is different about VAT for charities is the amount they pay for certain goods, not the amount they charge for VATable sales.
What this legislation does (I think, I am happy to be corrected) is say that private school fees are VATable sales, whereas before they weren't.
Yep, IHN is correct - parents who pay school fees now have to pay and additional 20% VAT on those fees when previously fees were not VATable.
Soz Teej, you're wrong. There's no such thing as a 'VAT exempt status for charities'. What is different about VAT for charities is the amount they pay for certain goods, not the amount they charge for VATable sales.
What this legislation does (I think, I am happy to be corrected) is say that private school fees are VATable sales, whereas before they weren't.
Yep, IHN is correct - parents who pay school fees now have to pay and additional 20% VAT on those fees when previously fees were not VATable.
Whilst that is kind of funny, from my point of view, it's not really a benefit if it's costing certain demographics more. The point was it was supposed to make things cheaper, any thing, name one thing!
It's not even helping the more affluent! 🤣
As much as it breaks my heart that little Tarquin may have to go to a normal school instead of a posh one because his parents are not rich enough to pay the fees any more, I feel we have bigger fish to fry, as a country, like, I dunno, raising the basic standard of education across the board to negate the need for 'special' schools in the first place?
And while they might get a lot of additional tax revenue from school fee VAT (is 1Bn correct) and that is supposedly a Brexit benefit, it doesn't really address that 40Bn gap in tax revenues cos Brexit reduced trade.
And we'd be able to invest in education across the board if we had more tax to spend.
Indeed, much of the anti-EU bullshit that persisted for so long in the popular consciousness can be traced back to his 'journalistic' tenure there
Yeah something which gets linked to occasionally is Max Hastings "I was Boris Johnson’s boss: he is utterly unfit to be prime minister" and it always leaves me frothing (at the risk of encouraging people to reference it).
He wasnt fit to be a journalist but Hastings hired the **** after the times had sacked him for lying (specifically inventing a quote) he then allowed the **** to spread lies and make shit up because it sold papers and allowed Johnson to concentrate on getting pissed and getting ****ed.
he then allowed the * to spread lies and make shit up because it sold papers and allowed Johnson to concentrate on getting pissed and getting *ed.
I sort of think Johnson is like Clarkson in his writing, they both write well as in an ‘entertaining’ column that appeals to a lot of people, the issue is when his entertainment is taken as fact.
I doubt that Boris never realised in his wildest dreams that the articles he wrote on the EU would end up getting him to the position of PM, he was just running with a thing that people seemed to like so wrote more as it paid the bills.
Unfortunately this continual euro scepticism storytelling sort of set up for UKIP that another grifter jumped on the bandwagon and ran with.
Looks like Windows 10 support is going to last another year, but only if you're in the European Economic Zone (the UK isn't).
Microsoft backtracks, makes Windows 10 ESU program free in the EEA | Windows Central
From bendy bananas (which are fine for sale if they're sold as category 2) to steel tarifs.
I'm sure all the Brexity residents of Port Talbot and Scun-thorpe (sorry Mods about the swear filter avoidance) will be delighted with the Brexit benefit if those nasty smelly noisy polluting steel works get shut. 😐
From 12th October expect longer queues at border gates whilst your finger prints and photo are taken - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-entryexit-system
So now when you visit all of our shitty neighbours (but not for work cos who wants that) you can be treated like a criminal too.
Ding-ding-ding - yet another benefit.
I'm sure all the Brexity residents of Port Talbot and Scun-thorpe (sorry Mods about the swear filter avoidance) will be delighted with the Brexit benefit if those nasty smelly noisy polluting steel works get shut. 😐
Gonna be interesting to see how that changes sheet steel prices that my brexity employers use a fair amount of, guess it might go either way?
I regularly order some self-adhesive magnets from Amazon for my business because. Turns out they came from Germany and now Amazon EU won’t send to a UK business address.
Just my annual check on the list of what benefits it brought.
Still nowt.
Looks like Windows 10 support is going to last another year, but only if you're in the European Economic Zone (the UK isn't).
Signed up for free yday in the UK...
I see one brexit benefit is longer pub opening hours to "drive growth"...which seems counterintuitive. Surely actually rejoining the SM and CU will be a better fix...
Are we not calling them Brenefits yet?
Are we not calling them Brenefits yet?
I think the correct term is Penalties.
I see one brexit benefit is longer pub opening hours to "drive growth"...which seems counterintuitive. Surely actually rejoining the SM and CU will be a better fix...
Never you mind about all that, here, have some alcohol....
Just my annual check on the list of what benefits it brought.
Still nowt.
Indeed, one of my lads just enquired about working in France for the summer. He's planning a summer in Canada now. I am still slow hand clapping brexshit.
I think this is why I get so angry when some idiot says ‘you lost, stop moaning and get over it’
i can’t ‘get over it’ because every single time I hear about somebody’s kid being denied the opportunities I had or someone’s business being impacted unnecessarily or yet another barrier to travel then I’m reminded yet again day after day of how incredibly stupid it was to get ourselves in this situation.
My favourite everlasting benefit is that if my Dutch wife and I move abroad for longer than 5 years she loses her right to remain and despite living here since 1998 and paying more tax than most people earn would then be treated as a fresh immigrant if she wanted to move back.
You're in the happy position of having a Dutch wife, Winston, which means it's much easier to get a visa for EU countries. In France it's just a formality:
https://www.welcometofrance.com/fiche/famille-de-citoyens-de-lue-de-leee-et-suisse
Madame gets to pick up her British passport from DHL on Wednesday. That puts an end to six months of not being able to travel to the UK without going through Ireland despite being British. The dual national thing meant she couldn't get a travel visa without lying about her dual nationality and it's taken that long to get all the paperwork sorted to prove her britishness and get a passport.
I think the correct term is Penalties.
Brownsides?
Brownsides?
Nah, Brexit gives shit a bad name. Even manure has its positive uses. Brexit has none.
I see one brexit benefit is longer pub opening hours to "drive growth"...which seems counterintuitive. Surely actually rejoining the SM and CU will be a better fix...
There was an academic on the radio Friday afternoon explaining that the likely outcome of easier licencing would be a wider range of shops can sell alcohol for consumption at home and with the price of booze in pubs people are less inclined to go out drinking.
It's already a fairly trivial matter for a pub to extend their hours but of course if they already don't get enough customers, there's little point in doing so.
With all this extra stuff at the airports ,I seem to remember starmer making it so we could use the EU queues. What happened to that?
It's already a fairly trivial matter for a pub to extend their hours but of course if they already don't get enough customers, there's little point in doing so.
Yeah, I don’t get it. Longer hours could mean more staff costs, more energy costs… without necessarily increasing total trade, no? Many people will just shift when they go out.
Anyway, nothing to do with Brexit, is it?
With all this extra stuff at the airports ,I seem to remember starmer making it so we could use the EU queues. What happened to that?
Using e-gates? UK managed to get legal bars removed by EU, but it’s down to the members states to implement changes… and they might not be in a rush. Bedding in the other non-optional changes for non-EU travellers (including us) a higher priority. I imagine Spain, Malta etc will have it in place for next year’s holiday season.
EES photos and fingerprints kicks off tomorrow. I’m driving to Brexit Island on Wednesday, back Sunday. Let’s see how that goes.
if only there was a way to have free movement as one of several countries who could make that happen for longer than 90 days at a time…
I have massively enjoyed some brexit freedoms this year. Freedom to stand in a 40 min queue at Schiphol on a Friday evening while the red passport holders had to endure the indignity going straight through. Freedom to pay EE £2.69 a day for roaming. Such a beautiful thing.
I'm sure all the Brexity residents of Port Talbot and Scun-thorpe (sorry Mods about the swear filter avoidance) will be delighted with the Brexit benefit if those nasty smelly noisy polluting steel works get shut. 😐
Gonna be interesting to see how that changes sheet steel prices that my brexity employers use a fair amount of, guess it might go either way?
I heard talk about steel in transit to America being dumped to other countries, as no point in taking it there.
EES photos and fingerprints kicks off tomorrow. I’m driving to Brexit Island on Wednesday, back Sunday. Let’s see how that goes.
if only there was a way to have free movement as one of several countries who could make that happen for longer than 90 days at a time…
That’s the giggle with how one sided and lazy the U.K. was on negotiating.
EU citizens can holiday in the UK forup to six months per visit without a visa, provided they have a valid travel document. This six-month limit applies to individual visits, but frequent or successive visits that amount to living in the UK are not permitted
No 90 in 180 nonsense in the U.K.
TBH the freedom of movement isn’t exactly what people think it was.
It's already a fairly relatively trivial matter for a pub EU member country to extend their hours take control of their borders and enact, should they wish, pretty draconian entry requirements
Or at least, compared to Brexit, it certainly is. Denmark seem to have managed whilst still being in the EU and, as far as I know, they haven't had to throw away 4% of their GDP to do so.
It's almost as though Brexit was a terrible idea pushed by populists for their own advancement.
🤔
Hi All, We are over 1,500 posts and almost at page 20 but I am struggling to find the benefits in the posts so far and am too lazy to read the detail*
If you have posted a REAL benefit then please can you report it with something like **REAL BREXIT BENEFIT** as a header.
This may seem like a long and tedious task for the people involved, but I can't see anyone actually being affected as there don't appear to be any REAL benefits listed so far.
Thanks All
*Bit like those who voided for Brexit it seems
TBH the only benefit I was aware of was the tampon tax but the deeper you dig the more you find it wasn’t.
Sir Bernard Jenkin has implied in a Tweet that abolishing the tampon tax was a benefit of leaving the EU.
The reality. In 2016 the UK won a promise from the EU to be able to scrap the current 5 percent VAT on sanitary products, with the government believing the new system would be in place by April 2017.
After the referendum, the timetable slipped. There is “no sign that the current Tory government has pushed the issue in Brexit talks”, Labour MP Paula Sherriff said in 2018.
But the European Commission still published proposals covering the abolition of the tampon tax in 2018. Although the earliest date for implementation is January 2022, that’s just one year after the transition period ended.
So we could have abolished the tampon tax ourselves at least three years ago, or we could have waited another year and the EU would have abolished it across all remaining member states.
it’s a bit like the biggest myth pushed about the rollout of covid vaccine
TBH the freedom of movement isn’t exactly what people think it was.
Do go on - I am not sure I understand what part of freedom of movement you are referring to, or if positive or negative..
it’s not a free for all 🙂
You can’t just rock up and stay somewhere, after 3 months you have to register and if you were in Spain for more than 183 days you would become a tax resident.
They would also want to see health insurance and proof of able to support yourself.
(The amounts of proof are lower for EU residents thou)
I reality though with valid E101 and E111 in your pocket Europe was a Brit's oyster pre Brexit. My sister is the typical Brexit victim, before Brexit no-one ever questioned her right to have her camper van parked up in a place even for long periods. Today she's stuck in the UK waiting for the next 90 days.
When we wanted to start a business in France years back we just rented premises and got on with the paperwork. By the time the three months were up we had cartes de séjour, secu, kbis, bank accounts and could stay indefinitely. Ten years on obtaining nationality was another formality as we'd been good citizens and were well integrated. Try doing that now with whatever £4000 in 1991 money is worth today.
Didn’t Brexit stop the illegal boat crossings and free up a million previously European held jobs overnight?
In 1995 I got a job working for Canvas Holidays in France and ended up spending almost 2 years out there working as holiday rep, area manager, warehouse manager etc. Came back once to see my family I think…felt pretty free movement to me!
Didn’t Brexit stop the illegal boat crossings and free up a million previously European held jobs overnight?
If it wasn't written on the side of a bus, it didn't happen! That's why teh Farage Ferries are still running.
I reality though with valid E101 and E111 in your pocket Europe was a Brit's oyster pre Brexit. My sister is the typical Brexit victim, before Brexit no-one ever questioned her right to have her camper van parked up in a place even for long periods. Today she's stuck in the UK waiting for the next 90 days.
When we wanted to start a business in France years back we just rented premises and got on with the paperwork. By the time the three months were up we had cartes de séjour, secu, kbis, bank accounts and could stay indefinitely. Ten years on obtaining nationality was another formality as we'd been good citizens and were well integrated. Try doing that now with whatever £4000 in 1991 money is worth today.
Exactly ‘not questioned’ as no-one was that interested as you were an a citizen of an EU member state, a lot of the people who moaned about Spain and returned to the U.K. due to Brexit did so because they’d not bothered registering on the padron as they had a fear of being a tax resident of Spain 🙂
In 1995 I got a job working for Canvas Holidays in France and ended up spending almost 2 years out there working as holiday rep, area manager, warehouse manager etc. Came back once to see my family I think…felt pretty free movement to me!
Yeah cos you were an employee and they were probably looking after the paperwork for you 🙂
(30 years ago - just to rub it in 🙂 )
TBH it’s the thing that irks me the most is that you could come on holiday to Spain and just take a bar job if you decided to not go back.
That opportunity was ripped out of the hands of todays youngsters for a handful of ****all.
(sorry to bang on about it but meh, it was never right)
News items about the ESS say that when entering the EU temporarily (eg, holiday, not with a Visa) as a UK citizen you need to prove adequate funds and where you are staying for the full duration of your stay. That's a potential problem if you're bike or kayak touring and don't know exactly where you'll be - many of the small campsites don't take advance bookings. Or if you're wild camping in legal or accepted places.
TBH, the news do get excited about everything E.U .
The border guards have a lot of things at the request which they can invoke before they decide to let you in the country, this is no different to the U.K.
Not sure how the Uk can complain as that was the principle driver for Brexit taking back control of our borders, well this is Spain exercising control of theirs, although in reality they will only be asking this of a few people who they think aren’t holiday makers and their intent is nefarious.
They actually questioned my m8 a few years ago on where he was staying as he wasn’t carrying much luggage , obviously I’d given him no details so he had to tell them he was staying with a mate who had booked a hotel which he had no details of and he didn’t have any details of where where i lived as I was picking him up from the airport 🙂 (yes they let him)
If they applied the rules I doubt anyone other than on a full board hotel stay would be able to afford entry and I’m not sure if the etias has a card reader to swipe your bank card on entry 🙂
ACCREDITATION OF FINANCIAL MEANS
At the request of the competent authorities, the traveller must present proof of having sufficient financial means for the proposed stay, or of the ability to legally obtain such means.
In 2025, the minimum amount required is of 118€ ($125 approx.) per person per day. If the length of stay is 9 days or more, the traveller must have at least 1065€ ($1125 approx.) or its equivalent in foreign currency.
Financial means may be accredited by presenting cash, traveller's cheques, a credit card accompanied by a bank account statement, an up-to-date bank book, or any other resource that accredits the amount available, such as a credit statement regarding the card or bank account. Bank letters or online bank statements will not be accepted.
For tourist or private visits, the confirmed reservation of an organized trip, or proof of accommodation, or letter of invitation from a private individual (such a letter only proves the availability of accommodation and does not exempt the traveller from the obligation to meet other requirements for entry). The proof of accommodation may indicate whether it includes all or part of the traveller's living expenses.
So next time you turn up at a border in your borrowed Bently SUV carrying 15k in mixed currency and travel tickets bought on the day, be prepared for some questions 
And possibly not be cheeky 🙂