[Closed] Bread...what to replace it with/alternatives

Mmmm crumpet. Made scones for the first time this weekend, great success. Using white flour and caster sugar, of course. Still, the jam on top counts as 1 of my 5-a-day, right?

Whereas I think that sensible eating starts with avoiding any food that has its own TV advert. If binners and I ever met, there would probably be one of those [i]matter-antimatter[/i] explosions.

thanks all for the suggestions

talked the person early this morning part of the issue is the psychology of food and diet, they have got used to being full all the time, hence the need for the alternatives to bread, it is about subtle changes not fad dieting which is what they have been doing.

Lots of ideas and thoughts.....some passed on some reworded

It's not really that different. Fat's added to lots of traditional breads in similar (around the 1-2% mark) or significantly greater proportions to chorleywood (and the like) processed loaves.

You prove my point: Chorleywood process bread accounts for around 80% of the market, and relies on extra fat and additives. It also uses lower protein wheat.

I'll stick to the homemade thanks, I know exactly what's in it.

Very occasionally I will rely on a friend to pick up a loaf of bread for me. On one such occasion a loaf of Allinson wholemeal shite was presented. I reluctantly ate a few slices before throwing it out for the deer, badgers or foxes. Nothing would touch it apart from the fat greedy pigeons. The deer had a sniff and there was a WTF recoil.

I have no idea what they put in that shit but all the other stuff seems to get hoovered up in no time.

I like bread, personally, but there are some nice alternative casings on this thread.

I can't believe that there are people who are prepared to deprive themselves of this

[img] [/img]

I don't understand your world, you monsters!

God damn fad diet crap. It's really not difficult at all, eat whatever you want but follow a few simple guiding principles:
Avoid if possible processed food.

I read somewhere that the Chorleywood Method was adopted to avoid the long rising process that bread traditionally went through. That being the commercial equivalent of leaving the dough overnight, somewhere warm, in a bowl with a cloth over it. In commercial bakeries this meant loaves sat on conveyer belts winding their way slowly through the roof spaces. Instead more yeast is used, the fermentation happens quickly and is ended with jets of steam.

If you know betterer, please correct me.

So the downside might be that the yeast doesn't get to go through the full cycle as it used to, and so doesn't make the same amount of B-vits. And maybe the bread goes into the oven already full of steam.

If you know betterer...

Perhaps it is easier to transport, and keeps longer?

I read somewhere that the Chorleywood Method was adopted to avoid the long rising process that bread traditionally went through.

That's correct.

So the downside might be that the yeast doesn't get to go through the full cycle as it used to, and so doesn't make the same amount of B-vits. And maybe the bread goes into the oven already full of steam.

It also means extra fat, aeration and additives, or the process doesn't work.

Perhaps it is easier to transport, and keeps longer?

I'm sure you're right. My homemade bread only stays fresh for a couple of days, whereas shop-bought crap lasts for ages.

I thought the additives were just vitamin C?

Is bread is really that bad for you?

For some people, apparently. And not for others.

Instead more yeast is used, the fermentation happens quickly and is ended with jets of steam.

It's mostly a mechanical process whereby the dough has the shit kicked out of it in a pressure controlled mixer so that air bubbles are introduced into the dough and then expanded by the dough being exposed to a vacuum. There is a fair bit of yeast involved (though not as much as people seem to think) but that's mostly to give a fast prove afterwards as far as I understand it. The purpose of the additives is to encourage this dough to bond together into a stable mass. I wasn't aware that the fat's necessary for this process but ransos probably knows better than I do.

The keeping time is in no small part down to the fat content. If you add say 20ml of oil to your dough before kneading you'll find it keeps much better - this is something people have known for thousands of years. This is the main reason it's added in the CBP.

There's a good article about it here by the by: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2009/October/Ontherise.asp

I thought the additives were just vitamin C?

They have to add enzymes to make it rise quicker, and emulsifiers to make it hold more air. The enzymes are not listed on the ingredients label.

I thought the additives were just vitamin C?

Not just, take a look at the article I just linked for more details but there are enzymes added to achieve various ends.

Thanks for the linky LS. It's nice to know that they've stopped using Bromine.

[i]guiding principles:
Avoid if possible processed food.[/i] That be bread then.
[i]Eat more fruit and veg.
No carbs after 5pm.
Drink more water.[/i]
I call: FAD DIET!

Does anyone here remember their first pint of beer? How did it make you feel?

Sacked off bread in 2007 two years after I sacked off sugar. No particular reason it just started to taste sickly sweet

Bread shouldn't be a staple food imo

Some people on this thread are clearly absolutely hatstand bonkers masochists! Are you not even allowed pitta bread? What on earth do you do on the way back from the pub after a good piss up?

Chilli sauce?

[img] [/img]

Some people on this thread are clearly absolutely hatstand bonkers masochists! Are you not even allowed pitta bread? What on earth do you do on the way back from the pub after a good piss up?

Tsk, when we make shwarma at home we serve it with Quinoa and Spelt and Rye wraps don'cha know.

/sadly not actually joking.

I'm bloody salivating again...!

Some people on this thread are clearly [s]absolutely hatstand bonkers masochists![/s] not fat slow pie obsessed northerners

FTFY 🙂

lemonysam do you work for the bread marketing board or something?

Tsk, when we make shwarma at home we serve it with Quinoa and Spelt and Rye wraps don'cha know.
/sadly not actually joking

lemonysam do you work for the bread marketing board or something?

Bet it's a fair trade elephant leg too with organic lamb hoof and come lips...

Do you know how hard it is to find a source of free range mechanically reclaimed testicle?

I just swapped from the big loafs (erm, loaves?) of bread to the smaller loaves (erm, loafs?) that you can get. So, instead of about 100 cals/slice, they are about 55cals/slice and are smaller.

But, I still have a sandwich. It's just a bit smaller and has about half of the bread calories.
I also sometimes have those Warburtons thins that binners linked to; but we get the wholemeal ones, rather than white. They don't toast well though.

[i] [b]binners[/b] - Member

Some people on this thread are clearly absolutely hatstand bonkers[/i]
😉

The one and only substitute for bread is liquid bread AKA BEER
No good for sarnies though.

Stumpy having lunch....

[img] [/img]

😀

[i]The one and only substitute for bread is liquid bread AKA BEER[/i]

The thing about beer is, ime, the first pint of your life, is likely to provide you with the feeling of being drunk to some degree or another.
Then, as time passes and if you find you like drinking beer, you may also find that you can drink more on subsequent occasions.
As we know, this is down to people developing a tolerance, a certain resistance to beer/alcohol consumption.

The same could be said about insulin. When you're young, your body is very sensitive to insulin, all your cells and organs are sensitive to the hormone and all is as it was [i]designed[/i] to be...
But, as time passes and depending on the glycemic load of your daily diet throughout those passing years. You may expose those cells and organs to more insulin during that time. This again can lead to a certain degree of insulin resistance.
The only issue that then remains is how insulin resistant one's body becomes over time and whether that's a bad thing.

Go figure.
🙂

^^ Binners, startlingly accurate....

Is that from my Facebook page?

[i] stumpy01 - Member

^^ Binners, startlingly accurate....[/i]

What? You have long hair and wear green eye shadow!
😯

Beer is the perfect post ride recovery drink, no argument.

Beer is the perfect [s]post ride recovery[/s] drink, no argument.

FTFY

Can I raise a pertinent question for the flour-phobic please?

How do you cope at buffets? I'm only asking as we've had an enormous one delivered for lunch today. Its from the fab bakery down the road, and of a very northern leaning. Theres a whole world of lovely butties, little mini pizzas, and their frankly fantastic chilli sausage rolls, and stuff. The salad is of such an inconsequential quantity that it could only really be described as a garnish

Would you be able to eat any of this? Or would you have to look on aghast at the porkers shovelling stuff in?

I stopped eating pasta and bread lateish last year (cant remember when). Now I have bacon bap on a Sat or Sun am and thats it.

Its no biggy. Drop potatoes/pasta and keep a wee bit of bread and you're laughin.

How do you cope at buffets?

Meat.

[i]How do you cope at buffets?[/i] Binners - I don't live in the north, for which I'm grateful. Salad, cheese, rice, fruit: that sort of southern extravagance that ends about Glos.

[i] molgrips - Member

How do you cope at buffets?

Meat. [/i]

Excellent reply. Bread, grains, are a very cheap and nutritionally poor source of calories.
Something that people don't need if they have access to meat and veg.
😉

Solo - Member

What? You have long hair and wear green eye shadow!

Erm, Hello!! It's blue, not green..... 🙄

😆

don't touch buffets

After 30 years of eating porridge (Dorset Cereals just now) I'm actually going off it and not clearing my bowl! Scrambled eggs with cheese just tastes more yummy.

Definitely not pregnant btw. 😉

Have you tried porage with raisins, chopped dried apricots, honey or any other strange non-ethnic additions? Oh, and Scotts' Old Fashioned beats Dorset.

No but wondering whether my body has had enough of gluten, what with eating bread for lunch. Don't really understand it!

No but wondering whether my body has had enough of gluten, what with eating bread for lunch. Don't really understand it!

You realise Oats contain negligible gluten, right?

[i] nickc - Member

don't touch buffets [/i]

Yeap! because everyone else has... Yeasch!

[i]You realise Oats contain negligible gluten, right?[/i]

I bet you can tell me about all the goodness in oats, specifically.

As well as how much is [i]negligible[/i].

As well as how much is ]negligible.

Only that which gets there by contamination from other grains processed in the same plant. Coeliacs can eat porridge.
https://www.coeliac.org.uk/gluten-free-diet-and-lifestyle/gf-diet/oats/

Negligible? Can you quantify that please? There's very few g-f oats, last time I looked.

Edit: thanks. 🙂

After 30 years of eating porridge (Dorset Cereals just now) I'm actually going off it and not clearing my bowl! Scrambled eggs with cheese just tastes more yummy.

It could be you're just bored of it!

Anyway, porridge+banana+honey FTW. Although I quite like the sound of raisins.

It could be you're just bored of it!

[url= http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz3Q2UmEhhf ]Why grains are unhealthy[/url]

Need to do some label checking, it has raspberries.

[i]Only that which gets there by contamination[/i]

Selective answering, I appear to have missed your goodness list for oats...
Here, please allow me assist you:

100g of oats:
[i] 389 calories
16.9 grams protein
[b]66 grams carbohydrate[/b]
10.6 grams fiber (with just under half soluble)
7 grams fat (about half PUFA and half MUFA)
4.72 mg iron
177 mg magnesium
3.97 mg zinc
0.6 mg copper
4.9 mg manganese
[/i]

Oh, carbs again. Then there's the phytic acid which has a tendancy to bind to the nutrients listed above, thus rendering those nutrients unavailable for absorption. Then there's avenin too.

Carry on!
😉

Edit:
Amused by suggestions to add honey, raisins, bananas, (adding carbs to carbs lol)etc. Anyone would think that plain oats are rather tasteless, boring....
😉

This bloke will be upsetting the Establishment by challenging existing schools of thought. His new book is very good and an eye-opener.

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/01/23/thinking-about-obesity-and-diabetes/

Various Bircher Muesli options here by the way.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2014/oct/23/how-to-make-perfect-bircher-muesli-recipe

Selective answering, I appear to have missed your goodness list for oats...

No, that just wasn't the question I was answering.

[i]No, that just wasn't the question I was answering. [/i]
That'll be selective answering then, or to put it another way. You're promoting oats, but you're not too sure about how good they are for us.
Thank you.
🙂

CG.

Just read your link, very interesting.
Thank you.
🙂

No, that just wasn't the question I was answering.
That'll be selective answering then, or to put it another way. You're promoting oats, but you're not too sure about how good they are for us.

Except he hasn't actually been promoting oats, simply pointing out they have negligible gluten.

Anyway, I like porridge for breakfast and I heartily recommend it. It keeps me feeling fed for at least 4-5 hours, I don't feel bloated when I go for a ride or a run after eating it, and it tastes nice. And it's got carbs in it, which are quite handy when you're planning on doing exercise.

Solo - you're welcome. 🙂 His latest book is both enlightening and frightening.

[i] [b]lemonysam[/b] - Member [/i]

"The Mrs and I have stopped eating bread potatoes pasta and white rice. We are eating a more varied diet that includes more fresh vegetables, nuts, fruit, beans and pulses. Its good and variety is the greatest benefit."
[i][b]Then why not eat an even more varied diet by also including bread, potatoes, pasta and white rice? [/b][/i]
Divisive.

[i] mogrim - Member
Except he hasn't actually been promoting oats, simply pointing out they have negligible gluten.[/i]

[i] lemonysam - Member [/i]
"No but wondering whether my body has had enough of gluten, what with eating bread for lunch. Don't really understand it!"
[i]You realise Oats contain negligible gluten, right? [/i]

Unnecessary effort at embarrassing another member about their knowledge of the gluten content in oats, was sufficient, imo.

You see, for those if us who worship at the shrine of CaptMolgrips (long sleeve cycling jerseys). It's becomes obvious that promoting the consumption of dubious food items such as grains and bread, in the context that we're all slightly different, so more, some less obesogenic, is irresponsible. Where as to recommend caution when consuming certain foods, about which there is no clear consensus can be helpful.

[i]Anyway, [b]I[/b] like porridge for breakfast and [b]I[/b] heartily recommend it. It keeps [b]me[/b] feeling fed for at least 4-5 hours, [b]I[/b] don't feel bloated when [b]I[/b] go for a ride or a run after eating it, and it tastes nice.[/i]
Well thank you for that generous view onto your life and your habits.
Good night.

[i] cinnamon_girl - Member

Solo - you're welcome. His latest book is both enlightening and frightening. [/i]

I'm always up for learning from sensible info offered by others. I know what you mean with the frightening statement. My eyes opened quite a lot at times, while reading the diet delusion. Especially the bit about triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and IDE.
🙂

That link about diabetes is interesting. In a way. He promotes the conclusion that insulin is lipogenic as if it's a revolutionary conclusion when it's been on the wikipedia page for years 🙂

Maybe we could lose weight by avoiding foods that promote the production of insulin. I'm calling it the iMol diet...

[i]You see, for those if us who worship at the shrine of CaptMolgrips (long sleeve cycling jerseys). It's becomes obvious that promoting the consumption of dubious food items such as grains and bread, in the context that we're all slightly different, so more, some less obesogenic, is irresponsible. Where as to recommend caution when consuming certain foods, about which there is no clear consensus can be helpful.[/i]

[bijou rantette]

This, like a lot of your posts; makes absolutely no sense grammatically. Whilst you probably have something to contribute, you may want to think about contributing in a way that means I don't have to spend 10 mins trying to decipher what you're trying to say.

[/ bijou rantette]

Bu Bu Bu Bu But how do you have baked beans on toast without the toast?.....................That would just be........ Baked Beans 😯

Baked beans on ryvita, and because you've been good, a fried egg on top.

Baked beans on ryvita, and because you've been good, a fried egg on top.

I can see shards of ryvita flying everywhere

Ever melted cheese on ryvita? It's bloody awful. It actually makes a ryvita worse, which is some achievement.

Bread rocks. As do chips, crisps, grot, the smell of your own farts, overtaking and bacon.

Just stick to one of them a day.

My other half can't eat gluten and also has a reaction to oats. It isn't because they've been contaminated, as he's tried ones that aren't and he's also not that sensitive (he can get away with small amounts of wheat gluten). There's protein in oats (avenins), I think, perhaps it's this that's the problem. I also can't seem to tolerate them, I get indigestion.

You've got to hand it to ryvita. Taking all that cardboard in people's recycling bins, and cutting it up into squares? The profit margins must be huge!

I'm just about to cook some whopping big Wiltshire cured gammon steaks, big chunky chips and a couple of fried eggs. I'm going to make chip butties with thick white bread, and dip 'em in the runny egg

Just sayin' 😀

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[/img]

[quote=molgrips ]That link about diabetes is interesting. In a way. He promotes the conclusion that insulin is lipogenic as if it's a revolutionary conclusion when it's been on the wikipedia page for years
Maybe we could lose weight by avoiding foods that promote the production of insulin. I'm calling it the iMol diet...
Do you take (and not refund) Paypal?

Not usually, but I will make an exception for you 🙂

Btw, for those wanting a super low GI snack/small meal along beans on toast lines - try half a tin of refried beans heated up, with grated cheese and hot sauce on top. Bloody lovely!

Incidentally - I know cheese was prohibited on the iDiet, but the only research I can find on insulin index rates cheese very low - and on the molgrips satiety scale it rates very highly in that a little of it makes a meal far more satisfying.

+1 on cheese. Seems to work for me and offers a much wider range of meal options.

Some of you might be interested in this week's food programme The Grain Divide about "heritage" grains. Not something I've really invested all that much time in baking with but still an interesting topic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b050yh95

It's really an extended trailer for this film which I've been looking forward to for a while:
http://thegraindivide.com/

Thanks, will give that a listen. I've seen grains like spelt and khorasan on the shelves and wondered whether they were any more "natural"/"better" than modern wheat (which has no doubt been selectively cross bred extensively) or whether it's just another way of seperating the health food victims from their hard-earned!

I've seen grains like spelt and khorasan on the shelves and wondered whether they were any more "natural"/"better" than modern wheat (which has no doubt been selectively cross bred extensively) or whether it's just another way of seperating the health food victims from their hard-earned!

Little from column A, little from column B. Some of them aren't really all that interesting but others do give significantly different flavours and textures to bakes. I actually find the differences are more interesting in cakes than in breads.