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It was briefly mentioned above, but what chance would there be of turning out a good gluten free loaf from one of these?
Yes, but like almost everything gluten free it depends on your expectations. It's difficult to get everything right, making it smart to choose where the compromises are going to be- so frinstance I use a glutafin premix which reliably makes a loaf that tastes good and rises well, but basically doesn't handle like bread, it has an odd foamy texture, definitely more "cakey" than "breadey". Once you're used to it it's good but it can be offputting at first just because of weird mouthfeel and reaction, your mouth knows what bread should feel like.
(a depressing amount of gf products focus on look and feel and taste like mdf)
A cheat code here is the glutafin "select" mixes but not everyone can use them. They are codex alimentarius (*) approved gluten free but that doesn't actually mean 100% gluten free, it means you're under the parts-per-million. That tiny amount of gluten should be OK for most coeliacs but if you require or insist on true 0%, it's not that. But anyway, even that tiny amount is enough to help make a better bread. The white mix and fibre mix both reliably make a good loaf, and they're the best everyday options I've used and also can be got on prescription if you've lucked out in the GF postcode lottery.
I'd say the best shop-bought loaves, like the Promise multiseed, are a bit better but they're also quite expensive, and choice is good. I make the glutafin loaves probably about 2/3ds of the time and get the Promise the rest of the time, or a few others like M&S Oaty Loaf.
Aside but here is where my panasonic machine is a wee bit annoying, it's all presets and definitely "Knows best". An extra 10 minutes in teh bake cycle would be better for me but there's no preset that'll allow that and there's no "+10" option. Ah well.
The coeliacs I know would run a mile from that "solution" - there's far too much risk of crumbs in the machine, however careful you are taking the tin out.
With my Panasonic the risk would be zero tbh unless you're getting crumbs stuck to the roof of the machine or something, you'd have to really make an effort to create contamination. Except maybe if you're putting something gluten-containing in a seed dropper.
(* Codex Alimentarius always makes me smile, that's some 90s warhammer shit right there. "I've got the new space wolves codex mate, what have you brought" "2000 points of rice-flour based breadsticks". THE CODEX GLUTANICUS DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS ACTION!
With my Panasonic the risk would be zero tbh unless you're getting crumbs stuck to the roof of the machine or something, you'd have to really make an effort to create contamination. Except maybe if you're putting something gluten-containing in a seed dropper.
It's the "make an effort" and the "except maybe" bits that matter 🙂 Sure, in practice they'll almost certainly be fine, but if it comes down to forgoing a bit of bread or risking a week of intestinal pain, IME they'll go for the former. (Or at least the two coeliac friends I have would; it's quite possible they're not representative, and are particularly risk-averse!)
Yeha basically I just think I could make a thousand loaves in my machine and get exactly zero cross contamination, it's a metal bucket at the end of the day, how you get crumbs to a) come out of the bucket and stay in teh machine adn then b) somehow get from the machine into the new bucket, short of deliberately spooning stuff across, I don't know.
An extra 10 minutes in teh bake cycle would be better for me but there's no preset that'll allow that and there's no "+10" option. Ah well.
Does the delayed start timer button not do that post-bake? (I've only skim-read the instructions and yours may be different anyway.)
Using the machine for dough and then baking it yourself is a great way to get a decent shaped loaf. The breadmaker tin is a rubbish shape, so you end up with slices that don't fit in anything. I presume this is because its shape is part of the mixing process. You can get mixers with two paddles in a longer thinner tin but they are pretty rare and it's inconclusive if they help or not.
But baking it yourself is still a huge faff. Each individual step is trivially easy but you have to monitor it and remember to come back in your 45 mins and then you're forever thinking 'has it doubled in size? Do you mean volume or external dimension?' when the blob is a different shape and you can't remember exactly when you made it and if it's warmer in the kitchen than it was last time and so on. It's a fun technical process but sometimes you just want a slice of toast for your egg.
Does the delayed start timer button not do that post-bake?
No, it just delays the start by 10 min.
The delay function is quite useful - means you can set it up to have fresh bread at breakfast time but it doesn’t work with things like brioche which just don’t rise.
I use the timer to make bread that's ready for breakfast. If I make during the day then by the following day's breakfast it's 12-15hrs old and not as good.
Thanks for the comments on Gluten free. Fortunately, it’s just a mild intolerance, so cross contamination wouldn’t be an issue.
Just leave the bread in the machine and extra 10 after the beeps it'll continue to cook. Elements still red hot when you open it at the beep
indeed. But the thread is about breadmakers .
Which is why I came back as said that maybe you do need sugar in a machine 🙄
Woke up to the smell of freshly baked bread this morning, mmmmmmmm 😀
Forgive my ignorance guys but can any bread makers make a ciabatta type loaf/roll/stick? Or am I better of trying to use the oven?
Forgive my ignorance guys but can any bread makers make a ciabatta type loaf/roll/stick? Or am I better of trying to use the oven?
I think you can make the dough using the machine, but then you'll have to shape it by hand and bake in the oven.
Yeah they have a range of 'dough' programmes that mix, knead and do the initial rise. You then have to get it out (when the beeper goes), shape it into whatever form, prove it and then bake it. So it helps somewhat. I use the dough programmes for making cinnamon rolls.
There is good setting for mix and first prove of sourdough. I use that before taking my dough out, knocking back, second prove and then bake in the oven. This removes a lot of the mix/kneed faff. 2 or 3 loaves a week now since just before the pandemic.
Turns out there are machines that you can program step by step to get what you want.
After following this thread I pulled our old Cookworks machine from the cupboard and stuck on a basic white/spelt loaf earlier. Sounds like the drive belt has gone and its now tripping the socket ring - 🤔 tried to finish the loaf in the oven...
I think you can make the dough using the machine, but then you'll have to shape it by hand and bake in the oven.
Yep. I've used it to make pizza bases, focaccia, burger buns etc. There are recipes in the Panasonic instructions.
Forgive my ignorance guys but can any bread makers make a ciabatta type loaf/roll/stick? Or am I better of trying to use the oven?
My older Panasonic has an 'easy ciabatta' recipe that isn't really ciabatta but is a good loaf with more open texture. Good for toast and sanwiches. Recipe is on page 19 of the manual linked below.
Other instructions as to how to make ciabatta dough are on the internet. Using the machine to make dough for Focaccia using the pizza function also makes good quickish lunch.
Yep. I've used it to make pizza bases, focaccia, burger buns etc. There are recipes in the Panasonic instructions.
Before it got relocated to the loft years ago, I use to make pasta dough in mine.
Actually maybe you need it* for a bread machine because everything is timed and the dough 'has' to be risen in a certain timeframe - so the yeast is fed artificially to make it work within the given timeframe. 🤷♂️
Just had a look in the Panasonic recipe book - not all recipes have added sugar.
Well, we're away. The house is currently filled with the delicious aroma of first-use heating element.
...aaaaaand that was a roaring failure. My "large loaf" looks like a barm cake. It's brown at the bottom and cream at the top like an upside-down Ford Fiesta Sandpiper.
My partner insisted on us using her Tesco yeast sachets rather the Allinson's I'd bought specifically for the breadmaker, so naturally this is all her fault.
Well, we're away. The house is currently filled with the delicious aroma of first-use heating element.
Everyone loves that smell 😬
Always a bit of trial and error?
Did you use all brown flour? It can sometimes end up slightly on the dense side (a brick). The lighter on the top than the bottom is a 'feature' of the bread machine. When it's cooled a bit try a slice with butter on. Probably taste better than it looks.
Definitely try a plain white loaf. Everyone likes white bread once in a while.
PS you inspired me to make a loaf for lunch yesterday. Plain white loaf. Can't post pics as we scoffed the lot. Kids will eat a lot of white bread machine bread.
Plain white loaf, first recipe in the instructions, followed to the letter. It tasted fine but it was more like dense cake and the middle was almost still dough. Toasting made it worse. We ate about a third whilst it was still warm, the rest went in the bin.
Back to the drawing board, I'll try again.
I've made 3 loaves now and they've all turned out great. Only thing I can think of is did you sift the flour?
Sounds like bad luck there Cougar. I guess try your other yeast and cross your fingers. Not had too many failures with mine except when I've used out of date yeast.
Hope you work out the problem and get it working soon.
Only thing I can think of is did you sift the flour?
I did not, we were in a hurry so I just dumped it all in. Duly noted.
I guess try your other yeast and cross your fingers.
It's possible I just didn't add enough. The sachet was 7g, the Panasonic book called for 1tsp which was maybe half a sachet. Maybe it would have come out better if I'd ignored that and stuck the whole sachet in there. (Well, the contents of it.)
I've just slung in the bread mix pack I bought. Might as well try it whilst I wait for sufficient time to have a proper play with the thing.
Bread mix loaf had a top crust that looked like the Toxic Avenger's face, but other than that it's turned out a success. Pretty tasty too.
HAs anybody tried making jam with the bread maker? I was surprised to see it listed as an option but it can of make sense.
The sachet was 7g, the Panasonic book called for 1tsp
How much flour was there?
I use 10g yeast for 500g of flour.
(Definitely more than 1tsp)
Weigh everything [with digital scales] - esp the water.
I've never sifted the flour, I doubt that was the issue.
@cougar I use this in my Panasonic. 1tsp in the recipe = 1 tsp of this from the tin and it works well.
Allinson Easy Bake Yeast - ASDA Groceries
But it has to be relatively fresh, if you haven't done any bread for a year it might have gone off. I keep mine in the fridge which was also recommended.
You don't need to sift flour for bread. Don't worry about that.
I suspect it will be the yeast. In don't have a breadmaker but have been making stuff by hand for years. I use the purple tins of Allinson's 'Easy Bake' yeast (green label, not yellow) as you don't need to reactivate it in warm water. 7g(1tsp) should be enough for 500g flour. It's the quantity I use for a standard loaf. From your description it sounds under proved which again points at yeast.
Try that and see how you get on. Change 1 variable and all that.
HAs anybody tried making jam with the bread maker? I was surprised to see it listed as an option but it can of make sense.
Yes - works really well . I use the wonky frozen mixed fruit from Tesco's , Pectin and plain sugar ….. you can buy jam sugar its just sugar with pectin in at an extortionate cost.
where did you get your recipe @Cougar - if the panasonic book throw that away its a nonsense.
Go look on the panasonic facebook group - go into files and look for a user called Sue Payne .
HAs anybody tried making jam with the bread maker? I was surprised to see it listed as an option but it can of make sense.
Yep, works well in our ancient Kenwood breadmaker. However it only makes ~500g.
where did you get your recipe @Cougar - if the panasonic book throw that away its a nonsense.
Go look on the panasonic facebook group - go into files and look for a user called Sue Payne .
Alternatively I’d suggest that going anywhere near facebook groups is a really good way to turn a simple kitchen appliance into the torment nexus. This is already turning into another meeting of overhinkers anonymous.
@cougar it sounds like you fixed the issue with your first loaf. I guess the lesson there is that a generic recipe will get a good water/flour ratio but it might be worth looking at the instructions on the yeast for their recommendations and adjust the recipe accordingly.
Another vote for allinsons easy bake yeast here, only problem we have with it is when we forget to put any in.. Oh & we keep it in the fridge.
Alternatively I’d suggest that going anywhere near facebook groups is a really good way to turn a simple kitchen appliance into the torment nexus. This is already turning into another meeting of overhinkers anonymous.
Strange choice to ignore a tried and tested and well revered source of machine specific recipes if you have the time and patience to create your own recipes Crack on.
. double post
if the panasonic book throw that away its a nonsense.
I use it, works really well for me. Do you have a better wholemeal recipe for me to try?
Strikes me that the amount of yeast you start with depends on how long the machine is going to let the dough rise, and for me, at this point, only Panasonic knows that.
Well we've retrieved the mighty Panasonic SD-2501 in "Hospital White" from the depths of the "where electricals go to die" cupboard.
It's not set the kitchen on fire yet, so anything else is a bonus. Somewhat raffishly for a first bake in about 7 years, we've got for a wholemeal/white flour hybrid.
Ours is not terribly configureable from memory. The programme is the programme so I think we need to wait a while before it actually fires up any heating elements. The tiny LCD is currently flashing "Rest" and it'll be some 4hr30 before we expect to see the "end" icon light up.
Assuming it still works.
I'll be back with more exciting bread related news once that's happened and/or there's been a catastrophic failure of the village electricity supply.
I'd post some pics so you could gasp in awe at this mid 2000 engineering marvel, but you know STW 😉
Oh I just noticed we do have a "crust" button. As the manual has mostly succumbed to repeated flour/water incidents I'm not sure what it does and feeltpressing it now may lead to sub optimal outcomes.. We did follow the recipe that in what's left of the manual. I believe the machine is of an age that the backup would be some stone tablets 🙂
@northwind - both our kids were diagnosed Coeliacs in their early 20s. The elder suffers more if even lightly dusted with gluten, but they both avoid any kind of cross contamination. Their view was any gluten free loaf would only be on the cards after a deep clean of the machine even tho it's hard to see how any foreign bodies would get into the metal container.
Well we've retrieved the mighty Panasonic SD-2501 in "Hospital White" from the depths of the "where electricals go to die" cupboard.
That's what we have, got it for free on FB!
I’ve no idea what we paid for it but if it was a hundred quid it probably stands us ant about 4 quid a loaf!
Bread-date: -30 mins to launch.
Had a quick peep and it was looking "loaf-y"
However my memory of previous attempts looked good, smelled great but had a stodgy consistency.
Too late for a toast test?
A few updates.
The yeast I bought (but haven't used yet) is the Allinson's one everyone here recommended.
Loaf #2 was a bog standard Tesco wholemeal bread mix. Dump in the entire 500g bag, add 340ml of water (I always do this on scales anyway, I don't trust measuring jugs), shut the lid, select programme 5 and wait. Annoyingly, the "bread mix" setting doesn't allow you to use the timer function 🤷♂️ which if I'd known I'd have waited until this morning to do it, but still. In the absence of a 'bread bag' I wrapped it in a tea towel.
This one has been a hit, the kids annihilated it at lunchtime and wanted more. What's little of it left is still good 24h later, I'm munching it with home-made soup as I type right now. I made toast with it earlier and it was astoundingly good. I'm not usually a wholemeal fan but I may be becoming a convert.
@Alex asked about the 'crust' button, on mine at least you can select light/medium/dark crust so perhaps your is the same. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on the "give us all your details" product registration card that they have manuals online. I could google it but, well, so could you. 😁
My partner helpfully added bread flour and yeast onto her weekly Tesco delivery because obviously I'm going to buy a breadmaker and not think to buy any ****ing flour, so I've got half a dozen loaves' worth of Hovis to get through before I try anything more exotic. Which is fine, at least it's a constant.
Oh, we had an amusing (to me) post-lunch conversation.
Her: I think we're going to need one of those electric knives.
Me: Er, why?
Her: I cut slices and they came out like triangular door wedges.
Me: Did you use my bread knife?
Her: Yes...
Me: ...
Her: ... is it left-handed?
Me: Yup. Let me show you where the 'normal' one is. Also, welcome to my world.
Go look on the panasonic facebook group - go into files and look for a user called Sue Payne .
... Hmm?
We have images back 🙂
I present our first loafymcloaf. Now a bit shorter having been pruned for morning toast. First thing is to make L not XL as XL is bigger than the toaster can easily accommodate.
Pretty happy with that effort. A bit of tweaking next time possibly but not as dense as I remember the previous ones. Think we only used strong white flour in the past.
Passed the toast test with flying colours. Paid dogs "toast tax" and they both approved, but not great food critiques as they consider fresh cow poo a delicacy.
@cougar - I have now googled the manual, and the mystery of the "crust" button has been solved. I intend to smash that enthusiastically when SonOfLoaf is born later this week.
Having made zero posts on breadmakers for 10+ years, now I can't stop myself.
Well breadmaker adjacent anyway. Such was the fantastic smell of recently cooked bread, and having already dispatched a couple of slices to the toaster, I was inspired to attack a large amusingly shaped squash and blend a monster pan of butternut soup.
Unsurprisingly mopping this up with the meaty baked loaf was an excellent experience.
I do need to look into tho why our bread is always so "heavy". It's not a taste thing, more of a feel thing. It's doesn't feel/look/taste particularly "dough-y", nor is it hard or super crumbly. But it is dense. Maybe taking on an attribute of its owner.
Not quite weaponised like dwarf bread*. but would certainly cause bruising if dropped on an unprotected limb 🙂
*IYNYN
This thread is better than Traitors. personally I can* wait each morning for the updates
*No, I haven't
Dunno, can't do much with the programme (which is defo the right one) so must be something in the mix... or just the fact it's an old machine. I just had another slice and honestly I think I'm whinging too much about consistency 😉
Aldi's finest with some of their yeast. Not sure what we used to use. Recipe was not quite half and half. Measurements came out of the manual tho and was Programme 5.
GNU PTerry.
🙂
Just set my standard rye bread away in my bread maker, I’ve got a tefal one rather than a Panasonic. Always has good results if i stick to tge recipies the only issues ive had is trying to get a rye loaf with a wholemeal/rye mix rather than a white/rye mix. Oh snd the time i forget yo put the paddle back before setting it off, don’t do that.
Half and half / 60:40 seems to be a popular choice on here. I might give that a shot next after I've managed not to make dwarf bread (I so very nearly typed that on my report on the failed loaf but thought it might be confusing) from the Basic White.
was Programme 5.
Huh, I wonder if yours is a different set of programmes? 5 on mine is "pack of bread mix."
(Is it me or does it feel weird spelling programme correctly after decades of talking about computer programs?)
Programme (and yes it has too many letters) and 04 not 05.
Made the XL, will make the L next time and try a bit more water.
Has anyone managed to make 100% wholemeal without a stodgy bottom?
Has anyone managed to make 100% wholemeal without a stodgy bottom?
... that's too obvious a set-up line even for me.
What did you change
My breadmaker has started randomly producing loaves like your #1 attempt. Generally when doing a 50:50 wholemeal, but sometimes on a seeded flour (which I treat as white flour). I'd hoped that moving to a new tin of yeast would help, but it hasn't.
Apart from making sure I'm getting my measurements spot on (and not just from memory), anyone got any other ideas on what I might be missing, or is the solution just a new bike^W breadmaker?
Given that I've made literally three loaves one of which was from supermarket bread mix, I'm not really qualified to advise. My issue personally was almost certainly insufficient yeast. If you're using a fresh tin (thus ruling out dead yeast) and your machine doesn't have a separate dispenser then I'm told that you should try to keep salt and yeast as far apart as you can.
One piece of advice I have been given consistently is to measure water by weight on a digital scale rather than rely on a measuring jug. Whether that helps you any I've no idea. Measurements seem to be particularly critical when it comes to bread.
One piece of advice I have been given consistently is to measure water by weight on a digital scale rather than rely on a measuring jug.
correct. 1ml water weighs a gram, so its more accurate to use scales. however, i wouldnt have thought that would cause the difference in loaves that ive seen, it would only alter the hydration percentage a little which to me is no biggie.
it does look like a yeast issue, not getting enough rise with the first one. im the same with my pizza bases at the moment, im using the same tin of yeast and doing everything the same, but theyre not rising (proving) as much as they used to, so im thinking my yeast may need replacing, even though theres still most of a tin left. not quite so critical with pizza bases as bread loaves tho 🙂
may be worth experimenting with different yeast types? active dry, fresh etc?
Do you deliver? 🙂
Cougar I've just eaten lunch and you're making me hungry again!
As for bread not rising in the machine I've mainly found old yeast to be the problem. My older machine doesn't have a separate yeast dispenser but the instructions say yeast in first, then flour, fat, salt and water in that order and it works most of the time although 100% wholemeal can be a bit dense. I think other machines dictate a different order of putting things in.
As for numbered programmes on the Panasonic is that progress? I have an older 257 model and a 253 (even older) one my mum gave me as a spare as she wasn't using it. These have programmes with names like basic, wholemeal, french, Italian, cake and pizza. Seems more obvious for us simpletons than menu numbers which feels a bit old skool.
PS my machine doesn't have a jam setting but I've never added pectin to jam so would be unlikely to use a recipe that asked for it. With gooseberries and plums the problem is usually over setting so it ends up solid than making it too runny. It does need patience, a cold plate and a dozen teaspoons when judging the perfect set though.
I think other machines dictate a different order of putting things in.
As for numbered programmes on the Panasonic is that progress?
The manual says "add ingredients in the order listed" at the start of the recipes section, but it's really easy to overlook.
There's a cheat sheet on the machine itself telling you what all the programmes do. 1==Basic White, etc etc.
the instructions say yeast in first, then flour, fat, salt and water in that order
Salt can kill the yeast so it's best not to have them sat together for long. If making by hand it's recommended to put the salt on one side of the bowl and the yeast on the other.
Read this thread with interest - can't justify a breadmaker but went nuts and bought a bread tin and some strong flour this morning, two year old yeast still works! Just used a super-simple recipe and, for the second time ever, made me a loaf - it's about a hundred times better than the first although still a bit dense. I like this game! 🙂
made me a loaf - it's about a hundred times better than the first although still a bit dense
Maybe the 2 year old year old yeast wasn't working that well 😉
Well, I've had my Panasonic for a week and a half now, made several loaves all of which have been pretty successful (much to my surprise). Haven't tried anything fancy yet but my fave so far is the basic quick adding in some poppy seeds and using olive oil instead of butter. Scrummy.