[Closed] Brazil 2014. The World Cup thread

...said Chris Waddle on the previous page and back in 2010

There are lots of reasons why Uruguay won last night - the English team being less than 50% of those, and the singing of the national anthem being a tiny proportion of that.

Understand this my point being that they just did not look up for it. Indeed this is my main bug bear - English players don't seem to want to prove themselves in an England shirt. Too much adoration from club supporters and press. Also agree about trying to get players working together but last night we had five Liverpool players and even they could not work together (apart from Gerrard and Suárez)

Lets see if I can continue my 2 out 3 theme record!(obviously I'm wildly off on correct score!)

Today's inaccurate predictions:

Italy v Costa Rica - Italy 2-0
Swiss v France - France 0-1
Ecuador v Honduras - draw.

my point being that they just did not look up for it. Indeed this is my main bug bear - English players don't seem to want to prove themselves in an England shirt.

Not sure it's that especially (though some may feel it more or less than others). I suspect they did, though don't disagree the way they played seemed nervous when on the ball - as if they were too scared of losing to feel comfortable to try to win.

But, as always, the performance of a team is always less than 50% of the reason why they do or don't play well (the rest is down to the opposition and conditions (pitch, weather, officials)).

Looked at more broadly, that apparent nervousness didn't help when presented by a determined Uruguayan defence that worked well front to back. Look at the the decision to use two men to close Sterling, Sturridge and Rooney. A good tactical move, which was well executed.

The Italy game gave hope. The Uruguayan game gave reality.

I gouda shout for the Swiss. Hopefully the French will crash and Berne.

The Italy game gave hope. The Uruguayan game gave reality.

One suspects that they perhaps felt that they were going to play a weaker team and that just didn't happen, as you say Uruguay were determined and did what they had to do, when they had to do it.

Other 50%:
Should the Uruguayans have been down to 10 men?
Should Roy have kept the same formation that he used against Italy?
Should Ashley Cole have been playing at left back?

Differing nervous passes across the back four, half hearted lobs instead of decisive sharp passes upfront, sporadic urgency off the ball and a lack of concentration.

Could have been any England team of the last 30 yrs.

The reason..I dont know media pressure, lack of national pride, overpaid, home league dominated by foreign players?? who knows but if I seem cycnical its because Im fed up of watching my overhyped national team getting embarrased by nations a tenth of our size who whilst no more skillful at least have the decency to turn up and show some spirit.

IanW - Member
home league dominated by foreign players??

overhyped

Edison Cavani cost PSG over £50 million, cost more than any England player ever has, yet isn't as good as Suarez. Massivly hyped though, so it's not just 'our' players; all nations will have similar criticism. Some brazillians i spoke to last night were very critical of most of ther team's players, with Neymar getting a lot of the flak. And I dare't broach the subject with any Sapniards at the moment. 😯

I gouda shout for the Swiss. Hopefully the French will crash and Berne.

Nope. The French are going to wine it.

Look at the the decision to use two men to close Sterling, Sturridge and Rooney. A good tactical move, which was well executed.

Indeed. They were really physical too. Nobody got any time on the ball, before they had 2 Uruguayans clattering into them. When we didn't have the ball, we were casually trotting about, standing off them, and not even attempting to close them down. We could have done with a couple of Scholes-esque tackles on Suarez.

One team looked like they wanted it. One didn't. Simple as that

[url= http://talksport.com/football/other-countries-must-look-england-and-laugh-stuart-pearces-damning-verdict-after-uruguay?fb_action_ids=10202432746524134&fb_action_types=og.comments&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582 ]This is a very interesting point of view from Psycho [/url]

We could have done with a couple of Scholes-esque tackles on Suarez.

Which undoubtedly have resulted in at least one red card, leaving us in an even more desperate situation.

This is a very interesting point of view from Psycho

Very. I have no way of verifying what he says, but he's infinitely closer to make that call than any of us.

(And if I can just labour the rugby point for binners' benefit - similar is true in Welsh rugby, where clubs were amalgamated into regional teams. Talented youngsters join those teams and then sit on the bench. Eventually, the lack of experience and play means they fall behind those less talented but who get more play time.)

Which undoubtedly have resulted in at least one red card, leaving us in an even more desperate situation.

If that ref had been the card-happy type, then Uruguay would have been down to 10 men half way through the first half. They were putting some pretty bloody strong challenges in. We weren't.

I like Robbie Savage's honesty about this kind of thing. He said that if someone was coming back from injury, like Suarez, within the opening couple of minutes he'd absolutely clatter them, and let them know thats what they'll be getting for the rest of the game.

How many times did you see Rooney, Stirling or Sturridge get blatantly taken out last night? Plenty!

How many strong physical challenges did you see any England players make. None!

Edison Cavani cost PSG over £50 million, cost more than any England player ever has, yet isn't as good as Suarez.

Cavani was barely involved in the game at all last night, but the one significant moment he was, he produced a moment of total quality, and that's why he's there.

Watching last night with Tyred Jr (hard to beat watching a world cup with a 9 year old football obsessive-in-the-making) he remarked on the difference in basic technique between the two sides. For the majority of the game, Uruguay's players simply looked more comfortable with the ball at their feet than England's, with the possible exception of Sterling. Nerves undoubtedly play a part in that - after the equaliser, all of a sudden Uruguay weren't as easy in possession as they had been, but that spell only lasted 10 minutes and England couldn't capitalise.

Talented youngsters join those teams and then sit on the bench

Sorry not true as two of the regions are so skint they cant afford overseas players, you may be thinking of the Ospreys galacticos but those days are long gone.

They just gave us no time on the ball, even in our own half they ran about like lunatics to close us down. Fair play, it really worked.

[i]Edison Cavani cost PSG over £50 million, [/i]

PSG definitely have more money than sense....they are spending the same on David Luiz FFS!

[i]How many strong physical challenges did you see any England players make. None![/i]

I believe that would have been because our players were told to be careful of making challenges that would result in cards. Some for perhaps their own reasons didn't want cards to make them miss the latter stages.......which they are going to anyway! 🙁

[i]They just gave us no time on the ball, even in our own half they ran about like lunatics to close us down. Fair play, it really worked.[/i]

Yep...we weren't good enough to play through/around them.

johndoh - Member

This is a very interesting point of view from Psycho

“Five years ago our Under-21s played the German Under-21s in the European finals. I look at their team then and the one that lined up against Portugal in the World Cup. Six of their players from the Under-21s carried on their progression, stayed in the senior squad, and actually played against Portugal the other day.

“I looked at our squad [for the Under-21 European Championship five years ago] and out of that squad there were no players in our starting line-up that five years ago made the same journey. James Milner was in the squad and played but obviously didn’t get on the pitch the other day [against Uruguay] and Joe Hart ended up being suspended so possibly you could say two [did make the journey].

“Why last summer were 17 of our young players missing from an Under-21 tournament? It infuriates the life out of me.

He might be onto something there

what ? They have better players than england hence they got in the team?

That is the basic problem. Look at the top 5 teams, how many from england, of any age, make the squad?
How many start?

That is the problem not how the U21's are managed

He is correct shaw will have learnt more playing though.

But as it isn't the agenda of foreign owned prem clubs to nurture our homegrown talents, the youth set-up has to compensate.

One team looked like they wanted it. One didn't. Simple as that

Sssh, I think you got away with it this time, but you are not allowed to say things like that on here. I tried it once which was good for 3 pages of verbals..... 😉

I think they wanted it, they just didn't know how to get it. Simply wanting something isn't enough. Otherwise I'd be rich and not have to work.

Well the combination of wanting it, and also being quite good seemed to be a winner

Sssh, I think you got away with it this time, but you are not allowed to say things like that on here. I tried it once which was good for 3 pages of verbals.....

Because it's bullshit.

And, for the second time this week, do give over.

I think they wanted it, they just didn't know how to get it.

But I don't think for a single [s]minute[/s] second that they wanted it any less. Running around hacking at players legs fighting for balls doesn't prove you want it more and if England had responded by doing that it would just show indiscipline – they train for hours and hours and formulate game plans - just like a boxer does. Their plan worked on Saturday (apart from the result, but the football was good), it just didn't last night.

Lol.. apparently Balotelli tweeted that if they beat Costa Rica he expects a kiss from the Queen.

molgrips - Member
Lol.. apparently Balotelli tweeted that if they beat Costa Rica he expects a kiss from the Queen.

deadlydarcy - Member
Sssh, I think you got away with it this time, but you are not allowed to say things like that on here. I tried it once which was good for 3 pages of verbals.....

Because it's bullshit.

QED 😀

Even past players admit it, but keep it shhh, you know who.

The fact that we didn't know how to or what to do seemed depressingly obvious and quickly. Seemed more akin to watching U11 schoolboy hoof and chase.

[img] ?oh=eaaab7e469b797c10bf6027cbbba7f90&oe=542081E2[/img]

molgrips - Member
I think they wanted it, they just didn't know how to get it.

are youse keeping him btw? I'd punt him and try for someone else.

Is there a new verse to the "Stevie Gerrard fell on his arse..." song yet?

I think we have been bloody short changed by not at least getting to a penalty shoot out, That's normally the best bit.

stomach rumbling is it dear boy

England should come home early because they lack the quality to take them beyond the first round. Others are also catching up put it this way. 🙄

Cummon Costa Rica! 😆

Even past players admit it

Doesn't stop it being a bullshit comment (and in a way, an insult to the losing team). It's an unimaginative way of saying "I can't quite put my finger on why we were worse on the day, so I'll roll this cliché out."

Quantify "want" and then we can debate it. If you can't then, as I said, do give over carrying your petty jibes on from other threads into this one, and we'll stick to the footie instead.

Apologies for my temporary "impertinence*."

* a true STW classic that one. 🙂

*reads through last page of thread*

Gentlemen, please!

I hope that ref bought Costa Rica a drink before ****ing them, just now. Penalty all day long.

Edit: On the plus side....GOOOOOAALL!

Costa Rica and Uruguay to qualify? Bet you could've got good odds on that!

Robbie Savage is currently losing his shit on the commentary. Very entertaining.

thepurist - Member

Costa Rica and Uruguay to qualify? Bet you could've got good odds on that!

That will be very good as the Italian are not that impressive at all.

If Super Mario wants his kiss off the queen he want to try staying onside. Just for the novelty value

Psycho has a point but clubs won't release players for junior tournaments unless under duress. And the PL is all powerful in that regard.

Instead, and I say this every 4 years, we need to bite the bullet and write off the Euros in 2 years time as a stepping stone to WC18. Start immediately with a squad of players who will be the ones to carry our hopes in four years time.

We should be good enough to qualify for the Euros anyway, but don't make that a prerequisite. We need players to learn international football, how to play in games when you can't dominate, and hopefully learn tournament craft at Euro16 along the way. Trouble is twofold; one that a two year cycle isn't enough to allow a proper rebuild for these talented youngsters to come through, and second that Roy, who I think IS the right man for the next period, is contracted until the Euros only and hence has no chip in the game to build towards the next world cup, he'll be measured by the Euros.

Back him with a four year deal, or replace him, but get working to a cycle that is the same cycle as the WC.

f Super Mario wants his kiss off the queen he want to try staying onside. Just for the novelty value

What are the odds of an all Central/South American semi final round?

Why couldn't we play this Italy?

Toodle-o Eng-gur-land 😥

[img] [/img]

I reckon England should copy the other home nations by not entering the WC in the first place. Think how much money the fans have saved!

So innngerrlernd are definitely out. Means we can get on enjoying what's been a great world cup so far with none of that "involvement" rubbish.

Well played Costa Rica.

Note to Arsene: Get Joel Campbell back for next season.

So innngerrlernd are definitely out. Means we can get on enjoying what's been a great world cup so far with none of that "involvement" rubbish.

Innit? C'mon Greecermanitayhollacostabrazbelgfranistan!

Found myself half way through this game not wanting Costa Rica to lose...they seem to deserve it a lot more than England. Positive, committed, organised.

I'm disappointed for England, but I will never tire of seeing Italy losing.

Well played Costa Rica. Hopefully Uruguay will do the same job on the Italians and they'll have an early exit.

Costa Rica romping it, who'd a thunk it! England beware this mob could pump ye! 😆

Why couldn't we play this Italy?

We did, the difference is the way CR have pressed them on the ball and kept the tempo high.

Well done Costa Rica! Hurray!

Adiós En-ger-land!

Hopefully, adiós Italy as well.

😆

bloodynora - Member
I reckon England should copy the other home nations by not entering the WC in the first place. Think how much money the fans have saved!

goes to show that the england are not value for money .. cant believe the mugs that pay the england players wages . You go costa rica.. now do the lot and show ingerland how to play

That went well

. cant believe the mugs that pay the england players wages

Fwiw I thought the international match fees were pretty low and that at least some of the players gave them to charity. The 100ks a week is thanks to pay tv subscribers paying to watch league matches.

thought englands 2010 world cup was anonymous except the goal that crossed the line.. I cant believe that this one tops that.

Poor poor show ... although this world cup has actually been quite entertaining..

Quantify want? Easy 2-0

Why do you get so tetchy about it DD? The different levels of desire, mental strength and want are blindingly obvious. Insult to the losers? Perhaps. But they deserve what they get.

At least we can enjoy the footie now without the inflated national expectations. Great WC so far with brilliant goals - the objective of the game I believe.

For the fourth time thm...do give over...you're just getting painful now. I'd rather just talk about the footie. Take your petty shite to a religion thread or something. Thanks.

DD may I interject here and criticise him that way the points get made and we dont have to endure a reply for when i comment I only troll him and he wont feed me
I think we can call that a 2- 0 win

THM just let people discuss the football. you did this on the Ashes thread as well where you criticised the attitude of England and got everyone backs up.
Just chill will you and stop doing that think you do for just one thread eh.

Chris waddle on 5 live for those who want to hear

Just heard his saying England have all the set up and players to win then deconstruct his own argument by explaining how every player and every position the team are lacking.

You know I'm kind of relieved we're out now I can go back to just enjoying the World Cup.
Germany for the win I reckon.

donks - Member

You know I'm kind of relieved we're out now I can go back to just enjoying the World Cup.
Germany for the win I reckon.

Or Holland or Costa Rica ... the rest shite.

Blimey, sore losers. Yes, dd this is a footie thread and we were discussing among other things why MY national team lost/keep losing. Just because YOU don't like one of the reasons, doesn't make it either shite or any less valid.

For those who want England to do better! you have to understand the reasons why we fail so regularly first. Misdiagnose that and you won't get the correct answer.

Anyway back to the quality football with the mentally strong players.

I'm disappointed that England are 5hit.

Will still watch and enjoy the World Cup.

Rooney - Man Utd should sell him and buy Robbin!

As Thierry Henri said the other day, after the Italy game, England have to improve when they don't have the ball.

I couldn't agree more. Gave Italy far too much time and respect in midfield and allowed them to play their game. Similar with Uruguay, not quick enough or tight enough to the opposition. As for any of them, bar one or two moments, the lack of movement to find space was at best minimal and rather embarrassing for a team of professionals. Almost as though none of them actually wanted to have the ball for too long, except for Sterling in the first game. Too many sideways and backwards passes, back and forth. The back four must have completed more passes than is healthy.

As per, England's performance was pathetic, which really surprises me as the way a couple of teams have played in the PL this last season, and with so many of one of those teams' players in the squad, I was hoping quick, aggressive attacking style of play might have rubbed off a bit as a good idea.

Problem with that is, Roy Hodgkinson doesn't understand that way and so struggles with it, which is why he's always been happy with a draw.

Apart from that, so far the most of the games have been great entertainment and hope it continues. And on the plus side, at least the Liverpool squad can get a longer rest 😉

My second team is USA but they won't go all the way. I think I'll back Netherlands for the trophy.

goes to show that the england are not value for money .. cant believe the mugs that pay the england players wages

But clubs don't buy them for their national team performances, obviously.

As per, England's performance was pathetic, which really surprises me as the way a couple of teams have played in the PL this last season, and with so many of one of those teams' players in the squad, I was hoping quick, aggressive attacking style of play might have rubbed off a bit as a good idea.

I thought that was a problem at times, the Liverpool players were looking for each other too often when other channels were open. I think it is somewhat an exaggeration to call the English performance pathetic. But I don't think they quite click as a team.

But in general, the teams that have done well, have played very similar to the way Liverpool, Everton and Southampton did in the PL. It isn't just England that haven't coped well against that, Italy have struggled today, and Spain are also gone. There are a few teams that are going to have to have a long look at their style of play and how they adapt for upcoming tournaments.

No alice they are mentally weak THM just said so
Its not that they are just not good enough, it is not that they are not word class as a team or individually they are just mentally weak and need to MTFU. Please stop the misdiagnosis as it is not helping.

Now I for one feel certain having the fans back them like THM has is a big help, mentally, for the players.

I reckon England should copy the other home nations by not entering the WC in the first place. Think how much money the fans have saved!

Just show how much you know about this tournament. The whole shebang including the qualifiers is know as the world cup. The thing that is on this month is the world cup finals.

There are a few teams that are going to have to have a long look at their style of play and how they adapt for upcoming tournaments

Let's hope so, the new style is great to watch. More dynamic and more goals. Just what the punter asks for.

No, they were pathetic and I cite their inability to read the game and to create space and opportunities, along with their lack of movement, both on and off the ball, as unequivocal evidence.

In true STW fashion, I have skim read all previous posts from today and clearly missed the poor mental attitude comment, although Steven Gerrard always looks so worried.

England. Played for, and got.

They cruelly raised my hopes with a plucky (but ultimately futile) display against Italy, but yesterday was painful.

Did Gerard actually break into a run at any point? Henderson went totally AWOL. Rooney's first touch has now moved beyond tragic into embarassing. Not a single England player could walk off last night with their head up, maybe excepting Hart. It's no wonder he looks worked up all the time having to play behind that shower of shit. Sterling can take something away from this World Cup finals, but otherwise I am struggling to see any positives.

I absolutely loathe Suarez, but you can't argue with his footballing ability. He gets the job done, simple as.

See DD reply free critiques of THM

Anyway back to the football

Cagey so far but Th French will surely win this wont they

EDIT: scored as I posted
EDIT 2 : scored as I posted

Bloody hell.

I missed the incident that led to the defender going off with a slightly wrecked looking left side of his face. What happened?

Did I mention that France were going to win the WC?

Jamie - Freeloader! But we still like him

Did I mention that France were going to win the WC?

They better not. 😡