[Closed] Bought a dodgy motor help

Is there anyway I can get the money out of the sellers as I think it’s quite clear they sold the car knowingly with the fault and did their best to cover it up.

Dodgy stuff aside, if you buy something 'sold as seen' privately, you have no comeback.  Seems like the buyers were looking for someone that knew nothing about cars and found you.  Scumbags.  That's the risk when you buy second hand privately.

Also it became apparent they weren’t on the V5 so I have no address for them (I only know roughly their street). Alarm bells should have been ringing I know..

How have you contacted them since?  Mobile number?

If not what can I do with the car? K-seal, thermostat and auction? I don’t like this option as it’s not very honest.

I pity the next owner, but I don't have a better idea other than sucking it up and selling it for peanuts with the problems fully disclosed.

Bought privately ‘sold as seen’

You agreed to buy it and accepted it as it was. Now it has a blown head gasket. Obviously, it had a blown head gasket and the seller removed the thermostat hoping that it would not overheat for long enough that he could separate you from your money. That worked because you didn't have the car checked properly first (which would have included getting it up to temperature and checking the coolant for exhaust gases, which indicates a blown head gasket). If you take it to court, which will be expensive, the seller will probably claim that the car was fine when you accepted it and you mistreated it, so the blown head gasket is your responsibility.

Whether it's better to repair it or auction it off is a simple matter of adding up the costs and seeing what ends up costing you less.

get on the bmw forums and try and find the cheapest repair possible or email ed china.

You'd have to prove that the seller knew there was a fault to have any chance - they may well not have know especially if they were just buying and selling.

Sell it on to someone else and hope they don't spot the faults......

Or stick it into the nearest auction - a car like that would sell quite well I'd imagine.

Or fix it - clickmechanic says £796 inc vat which includes skimming the head..

Harsh.

You could either take up a martial art in the jungle for a couple of years and come back and woop their ass, if you can find them ,or , you could source a reconditioned engine.

best of luck.

Cheers guys

The mechanics that have looked at it have said it's not worth repairing so I'm assuming it's been driven a fair bit with the head leak. There suggestion has been replacement engine which is expensive and dodgy when looking at reconditioned engines

I've got their mobile numbers but that's pretty much it..

Naiive in hindsight the whole situation but 4k is a pretty big whack to swallow, if I can get even 2k back at this point I'd snap your hand off but I just don't know what it's worth in this condition

That’s truly shit behaviour on their behalf - but I think you are stuffed on comeback.  As said above just find out which option of sell on or repair will cost you the least.

Private sale so no warranty. You would suspect they have removed the thermostat to disguise the headgasket issue, misrepresentation. They could also just have bought the car at auction to flip it and it was a previous bodge. If misrepresentation its a civil matter, you could try and pursue but i have no idea what the outcome/costs are like?

Name not on logbook is normally a "dealer".

<h2 id="second-hand-car-bought-privately">Second-hand car bought privately</h2>
You have fewer rights when buying a second-hand car you buy a used car from a private seller, and key parts of the Consumer Rights Act don't apply. For example, there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

But contractual rules about misrepresentation do apply. So, legally, the seller must:

• accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
• not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if it’s been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.

If you're buying from a private seller, the onus is on you as the buyer to ask all the right questions before making the purchase. The seller doesn't have to volunteer extra information so, if you don't ask questions, you may not have the full picture of the car's history or be aware of any potential faults.

Moving on, junkyard engine is £250, junkyard engine with warranty about £500, junkyard engine with warranty and fitting £1500 (all ish and +). Stick "2007 118d engine" into ebay. Note warranty only covers the engine, not labour.

Stick it on ebay with an honest description and cut your losses, somebody will buy it to stick and engine in or break it

For next time ideally meet at the buyers house (some sellers will not want to do this as they are traders, others for the perfectly reasonable fact that some buyers are lunatics). Owners name should be on the V5. If you are spending decent money paying for a good car inspection is cheap insurance if you are unable to do this yourself. Or pay more to buy from a dealer, much better legal protection, though can be difficult to enforce.

It looks like you've been stitched up by greedy traders offloading a broken car for the most they could get.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">You need to move on. </span>

Put the car into the local auction house (best)  or eBay auction 99p start no reserve auction along with an honest description of the story with the car.

Did they give you a V5 or is it being sent out to you in your own name?

And don't buy a BMW. 2k could have got you s better car

Naiive in hindsight the whole situation but 4k is a pretty big whack to swallow, if I can get even 2k back at this point I’d snap your hand off but I just don’t know what it’s worth in this condition

You can stick up a classified add on ebay for £15(?) as spares/repairs for £2k and see if you get any interest. There are a couple of spares/repairs 118d for £1500 just now. Its the kind of thing I used to buy and chuck an engine in to get a nicer car than I could afford, but its got to be cheap or its not worth doing.

Did they say it was a private sale? Are they in fact dealers

If so then that's illegal and you may have a way forward.

This is key

Maybe try the KSeal first. It's cheap and has fixed some pretty bad cases I've heard of.

IANAL but if the seller has acknowledged by text that they removed the thermostat or the garage found the thermostat removed and would be prepared to put that in writing you may be able to use this in a small claims case.

Google search on mobile number to identify other cars sold on gumtree etc.

Iirc there’s a low threshold of motors per year which indicates they are dealing. If they are a dealer you have come back.

even the threat of reporting them as dealers may be enough to persuade them to refund you.

good luck.

I wish you luck, but I suspect the closest you will get to a legal decision being rewarded in your favour is applying to appear on Judge Romesh.

K-seal, thermostat and auction?

Auction houses offer their buyers more protection than you had when you bought the car. After the sale they have a fixed period (usually an hour) to test and inspect the car and can reject it if all is not as it seemed.

"Maybe try the KSeal first. It’s cheap and has fixed some pretty bad cases I’ve heard of"

No it hasn't.its fixed nothing.

As above, if you can establish they're dealers you've legal comeback though I can't see it being straightforward.

If it was genuinely a private sale and was advertised as having a "full service history" then that bit of it may open to challenge, I can't see a missing thermostat and blown head gasket as being compatible with FSH. The difficulty there is they could just say it was fine when you drove it away, and you took out the thermostat after you blew the head gasket so you could claim they were scammers.

Either way it'll be a ballache. Put it on ebay for spares or repair is your best bet IMO, unless you're willing to put a lot of effort in for little likely return.

If it was genuinely a private sale and was advertised as having a “full service history” then that bit of it may open to challenge, I can’t see a missing thermostat and blown head gasket as being compatible with FSH.

Even that means nothing within the context of the problem.  It may have a FSH, but the last service could have been 10 months ago, after which the thermostat somehow dropped off while driving to the shops.  And that's before the OP drove off with it after parting with his cash.....

Sorry, that sounds really shit.

The motor trade is still full of chancers, wrong 'uns and villains.

Personally, I'd accept you've been done - I'd bet they buy and sell cars a lot, the don't register them in their own names simply because it avoids them having to register as traders and as you've found out, they melt off into the night when things go wrong. If you keep calling them all they'll do is block you or change their number - you can buy PAYG phones for peanuts.

That said, if you accept you've got a £4k liability in the shape of a 1 series with a broken engine. Sadly the reconditioned / second-hand engine market has more chancers, wrong 'uns and villains than the second-hand car market.

Assuming it ran okay whilst cool you could probably get away with a skim and new gasket, but many garages don't like taking on this kind of work any more, which might explain why you're not getting much joy from them - it takes a while to dissemble the engine and then they're stuck with it for a week whilst it's at the machine shop, if they're have a local one, they're not so many around these days.

It might be worth finding a good machine shop, speak to them, they almost certainly won't be able to offer the labour element, but if they think it can be saved, they could probably recommend a garage they know and trust to do that bit. Sadly, it's going to be expensive.

That sounds pretty much like a worst-case scenario for buying a car. Sadly, I fear that from what you've said there's little chance of getting much out of them.

Given experience of the slightly older 3-series community, head gaskets are rarely worth repairing, the aluminium engines of that age are notorious for the block stripping when you take the head studs out, sometimes not immediately obviously and they go bang again shortly after being mended.

That said, it's a pretty common engine and loads of cars of that age will be being broken for parts after being written off for otherwise minor damage or wanting a few too many things put right for an MoT. If it were me, I'd look for a good used engine from a reputable BMW breaker, either going to a breaker who will actually fit it and warranty their work, or get a trusted mechanic to give it a once over and fit it. At least you then have a working car if you decide you want nothing more do to with it.

Sure it's not been clocked too? That seems very low miles for an 11yr old BMW.

That's not the case with all auction sales by any means maccruisekeen. A limited number will provide a period to check the vehicle over but most are hammer down and the deal is done.

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

Looks like you are humped.

Chek they aren't dealers in disguise?

Sure it’s not been clocked too? That seems very low miles for an 11yr old BMW.

It does seem low.  Have you checked the MOT History OP as they usually record the mileage?

I know it doesn't help but more ammo should you need it if you can track the scumbags down.

It would be worth checking the MoT history on https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ - all info is helpful at this stage, and there should be a recorded mileage at each test. You might get some more evidence of misrepresentation.

But if you're going to make any kind of case, even reporting to Trading Standards, you'll need to identify the sellers. How did you pay, cash?

Ok, alot of what I'll say has been said above, but this is from what I've learned this year from my dodgy 2nd hand car purchase.......

You bought privately so have almost  0 come back You can try small claims but only if you can  100% prove that the seller knew about the fault before selling and then misdirected you into purchase. But you'd have very little chance of winning.

However..... Are you sure that the seller isn't a trader? If they have sold more than 3 cars in 12 months (iirc) then they are classified as a trader and you can take them to small claims and win, but it'll be about 6month before the court date and alot of hassle. If this is the case I'd threaten with small claims and trading standards.

If you need to report to trading standards, phone your local council and speak to a member of the trading standards team rather than the generic tel national line.

Where are you based myles?

That is really crap. Up until a few cars ago I was buying cars privately but it's the safety of a warranty and comeback for things like this that has led me to buying from a dealer (as I've been buying nicer cars)

How much is it worth on we buy any car?

From experience warrantys from used car dealers are worth pretty much nothing (there are some very small exceptions). The consumer rights act covers you more than any warranty <span style="text-decoration: underline;">if</span> the car came with the fault (time limits apply).

Having read into it, a used car warranty will generally only cover for major engine failiure. Even then it'll only cover the original part that failed, so if a head gasket goes it'll cover for the gasket but not for any damage to the rest of the engine. Etc etc etc.

Consumer rights act would cover you for the car in this case if bought from a dealer as it's not fit for purpose and was supplied damaged. However the op says it was a private sale, so consumer rights act won't apply.

How's the car advertised?

Did they advertise the car as roadworthy?

The thermostat was removed completely, this delays the engine overheating so was undetected in test drive.

^^^ Have their altered the car ?

Road Traffic Act 1988

The only option is small claim court with maximum amount £10K but you need to proof the case.

Then get the Sheriffs to get your money back.

Some info below ...

Private buyer

Their argument will be caveat emptor but you can counter with the above especially Road Traffic Act 1988 provided you can proof the case.

Seller's perspective

West Sussex

I've checked mot history and all good

Reconditioned engines seem very murky and a rebuilt (new) engine is 3.5k so I'm either selling for parts which should be okay as it's an m sport or it's going to auction which I can see being hassle.

I will have a look into a BMW breaker though as I haven't explored this option yet, seems more legitimate than the reconditioned engine 'specialists'

I've pretty much been through all the citizen advice stuff and the only way to get money back is intimidation or proving they're dealers. The later being too much hassle I think.

We buy any car would reject it unless k seal can mask a sniffer test - this could be worth a try?

I still think you have chance with Road Traffic Act 1988 but you need provide proof they have altered the car.

You seem to have dismissed the "fix it" option?

That would be the best bet if the rest of the car stacks up. Any change of engine would set alarm bells rinigng with most people.

Gasket and skim and away you go.

I’ve already said that Clickmechanic will do the head gasket including skimming the head, new bolts etc for a touch under £800. I can’t belive that a car the appears to run okay when it’s cold is totally knackered so a gasket job should sort it.

Yeah fair point but at this stage both mechanics I've had look at it are saying it's beyond repair.

Any mechanics chime in on this?

I think there's a general fear that other engine components could have been damaged and it's hard to diagnose without systematically fixing fault after fault.

If it was as simple as new gasket and skim id be all over it but the two mechanics that have looked at it say no. Both of which are trusted.

It seems that the engine has a known trait/fault that means it’s not as simple as whip the head off, skim it (which is sometimes just a precaution) fit a new gasket, which is a real same. It might be worth doing some research into how often it really doesn’t work, these things have a habit of being blown out of proportion.

You could decide on the schrodinger's cat solution. Pay the £800 for the skim and regasket and then sell it straight away, it seems from above the block stripping issue doesn’t show immediately - so it might be good or bad, but you’ll likely never know.

Or currently there’s an engine from a 2003-2007 118d for sale on eBay for £495 that’s only don’t 98k miles supposedly - not sure the Labour rate for an engine swap, but you could end up with a nice usuable car at the end of it.

Sorry, had a garage to recommend if you were midlands-based.

First thing I’d do is remove the head and gasket and check to see if the head is actually warped and needs skimmed.  Then have a check of the cooling system (water pump, radiator,  expansion tank, etc.  If it all looks good, just carefully install a new gasket and torque the head down.   Run it all up to temperature and monitor.  It’s only £100.

Bung it on eBay/gumtree/Facebook for £3k with disclosure that it’s a runner that needs a head gasket.

This is why I bought my car new after buying a 2nd hand car that had problem after problem.

Get legal advice.

Buying new does not mean that no faults will appear soon after purchase and that the dealer will want to fix them.

I found this out the real hard way with a new motorcycle.

Really feel your pain. Sounds like something i would do. Sorry.

Shit situation but at this stage you have 2 viable options imo, fix it or sell it.

Without pulling the head off you're not going to know if the engine is salvageable. Even if the head is cracked/beyond repair a recon head is going to be a damn site cheaper and easier than a replacement engine - will look less dodgy if you come to sell too.

If you don't want to go down that route stick it on eBay, 99p no reserve selling as spares/repairs with overheating fault. I've been surprised how much stuff goes for as spares/repairs before now, plenty of backyard mechanics looking for projects or something to break for spares, even people looking for donor vehicles.