[Closed] Bottom end car manufacturers, how far have they come...

She a brand snob then. Buy her a bus pass in a leather wallet.

Ex-demo is the way to go and I'm sure dealers lend cars to staff to be able to call them "demo" and sell them to canny buyers. Mrs Gti bought a Volvo with 10,000 miles on it at close to half price after getting the local dealer to search his network for exactly the spec she wanted.

Exactly how I bought my car globalti.   I'll be doing the same, just not sure which vehicle currently.

I think go and have a look, and a drive, and see what you think.

They aren't as horrendous to look at as they were 20 years ago, and if "nice inside" is what you're after, that's quite subjective (and probably if you slapped a Mercedes or BMW badge on the worst of interiors some people would rate it as excellent).

Mrs Gti bought a Volvo with 10,000 miles on it at close to half price after getting the local dealer to search his network for exactly the spec she wanted.

That's ex-demo? My last car was ex-demo with 500 miles on it

Buying a Mercedes is no guarantee - we've recently hired an A class and a C class and both were horrible; blingy, vulgar, lots of black plastic, terrible paintwork, impossible to adjust through the distracting screen and alarming lane assist. Hateful cars.

The hire co offered me a BMW for an extra £25 but I told them I would expect THEM to pay me £25 as compensation for the damge to my reputation at being seen driving a BMW.

Weird that she'll drive a Ford, but not consider a Skoda.

Depending on her reasoning for the statement that she won't have a Skoda, it potentially contradicts the statement that she's not a brand snob. Does she have some reasoning for not having a Skoda, aside from 'It's a Skoda'?

My brother has a Sportage, as do my in-laws. Neither have had any issues.
My brother's previous car list (company cars) is: V70, Golf, Saab 9-3, Golf.....that's as far back as I can remember. He reckons the Kia is his favourite out of the lot.

About 5 months ago, I was on a business trip to our HQ in Germany. The taxi from the airport was a Hyundai Tuscon. I was very impressed with it. It was <2 years old with almost 300k km on it! It was like new inside. It wasn't as flash as an Audi, BMW, Merc but then it's nowhere near as expensive.

Ford are bringing out a new Kuga Hybrid if you want to stick with what you've got...

Picked up a Kia hire car this morning - some sort of small SUV but couldn't tell you what it's called. If you covered the badge, I couldn't tell you what it was from the inside - could be one of many manufacturers out there (including some of perceived "top end" ones). It seems fine inside but absolutely dire (petrol) engine. Has no power whatsoever and probably the worst hire car I've ever had (from a selection of many). Probably just the basic spec, small engine this one has rather than the brand as a whole though.

Weird that she’ll drive a Ford, but not consider a Skoda.

It was a different SUV picture in 2008

Ford are bringing out a new Kuga Hybrid if you want to stick with what you’ve got…

Well, our experience with Ford is about on par with Halfords, notwithstanding my experience with BMW yesterday wasn't that far off either...

The nicest drive we've had in about 25 hires was the Vauxhall Astra. Great little car.

Kia's aren't cheap anymore.

Do, as a poster said above, check the engine suits your driving. As for Skoda, they have some cracking petrol's now (VAG engines) that are both frugal and have diesel like grunt from low revs - my son has a 1.2 TFSI 109 bhp, and it pulls well without changing gear.

Sod the SUV, get a Hyundai i30N

I've been impressed with my Hyundai i40 (other than the rubbish headlights) over the last 4 years.
Comfortable and doesn't feel 'budget' inside.
Looked at a Kia Sportage and was quite impressed with that too.
But as mentioned above Kia and Hyundai aren't exactly 'bargain basement budget' brands anymore.

The Korean option will be better specced for much less money than anything German.
As a bonus, everything will keep on working for far longer.
Badge snobbery is so daft.
Think about the grooviest dude or dudette you know, do they drive a German saloon?
If not, would they be even more funktastic if they did?

Thought not 😂

Think about the grooviest dude or dudette you know, do they drive a German...

I do, yes 😉 😀

Be careful of ex-demo. Sometimes Ex-Demo cars are a lot more expensive than buying new with a decent discount. People who think they a good deal are actually getting rinsed compared to buying a new car and waiting. Definitely check the brokers / forums to see how much a car can be bought new.

German cars are rapidly loosing ground to the 'bottom end' IMHO. BMW's tech is an absolute shocker compared to some of the more mainstream brands. I regularly hire cars in the US and it's amazing how many brits are stuffy about US cars and buy German without realizing how much the Germans are falling behind.

I worked in Korea a few years back, there is a lot of premium cars available over there which are not imported to the UK. I guess it's only a matter of time before they start to bring them here, and when they do, I think the Germans will be in for a shock.

Unless you are after M/AMG/RS which don't really have equivalents from the mainstream brands, i'd totally recommend checking out the offerings from other manufacturers.

Hyundai own part of Kia - they use the same engines and platforms for some cars , neither are "cheap" these days - but they have long warranties and don`t go wrong as a rule, they are quite good budget 2nd hand cars if you do your research.

Traditionally most cars are either "disposable" or not.
Some manufacturers make both ... some only aim at one end or the other.

Overall fleet buyers want different things than individuals

very happy with our sportage. has the crappy 1.6 petrol engine, but for the vast majority of our driving (city commutes) it's fine

Kia / Hyundai's stated aim is to become the biggest car manufacturer on the planet.

Phase 1 was make boring and reliable cars.

Phase 2 is to make their stuff more desirable.

Things like the Hyundai i30N and the Kia Stinger are the result.

The aren't low end brands anymore

Has no power whatsoever and probably the worst hire car I’ve ever had (from a selection of many).

Sir has not had a Vauxhall Nokia.

We've just ordered a replacement for our Mazda CX-5 and looked at pretty much every comparable SUV in the last couple of months.

- The new Kuga is very nice, the interior is a big upgrade from the outgoing model. Uncertainty over lead times was a problem though.
- The latest CX-5 is extremely well specced and probably the best of the bunch, but we fancied a change.
- VW Tiguan is ok but the specs are ridiculous. No standard LED lights on lower spec and no manual gearbox on higher spec. Adding options makes the prices silly very quickly.
- Really liked Peugeot 5008 but wasn't sure about the quality and they were suprisingly expensive.
- SEAT and Skoda are almost impossible to pick apart. There is almost no seperation between them at all. Makes you wonder how long VAG will continue with both brands. In the end Skoda could offer a top spec Kodiaq at a great price with a good lead time. Quality seems equivelant to our outgoing Mazda and no worse than Ford or SEAT.

We looked at both Kia and Hyundai. Although they were slightly cheaper than Ford, Mazda and Skoda, we felt the quality was significantly lower.

Forgot to add Honda. The dealership really tried to sell us a CR-V. The discounts were crazy, would have been down to Kia/Hyundia discounted price but we just couldn't live with the weird dash/outdated infotainment system.

Why an SUV? SUVs emit aprrox 10% more emissions than an equivalent hatchback (due to weight primarily). I know you said hybrid, but why not consider a hybrid normal car?

If your wife likes the current Kuga ? Pick up same model in Titanium X trim.

Full heated leather
Pano roof
Electric seats
Auto wipers

Full of toys

I use a lot of hire cars through work. recently driven the Kia Sportage and the Hyundai Tucson. They are both similar quality inside, however the Kia was a much better car to drive. less wallowy suspension, just a much nicer car.
My last car was a pre registered Honda Civic (when the last model changed over) Local dealer was selling off a load of brand new cars that had been registered to the dealer. So I bought a new but used car. Same 3 yr warranty etc but saved about 30%

I have no interest in modern cars with an additional dislike for SUV's... but I had a passenger ride in a Skoda Kodiaq a few weeks ago. It was like being rolled up in a sleeping bag and flown away on a magic carpet. Or maybe I've spent too much time in bucket seats with no windscreen.

I wouldn't buy one but I find it impossible to believe you'd dismiss a Skoda because of the badge given how strong the lineup is.

Having been in numerous taxis, I've noticed that after a hard taxi life for a few years the interiors of Kia or other lower end cars are noticeably more rattly and old feeling.

but absolutely dire (petrol) engine. Has no power whatsoever and probably the worst hire car I’ve ever had

I've had several hire cars where you'd say there was a serious problem with the engine and it's doing the manufacturer reputation down (i.e. "I'll never buy one of these!"). I then wondered if there was some form of restriction on the engine to stop it being ragged during its hire life?

We've hired about 25 different cars from Enterprise in the last year and none has had that problem. Are you sure you're not just overdoing the Italian tuneup and hitting the rev limiter?

The only bad ones were the Mercs, which had a horrible lane assist thing that seemed to grab the steering wheel at random moments including on narrow lanes, really unpleasant and we couldn't see how to turn it off. We were so un-nerved that we even stopped the A class twice thinking something was hanging down in the wheel arch.

Korean made vehicles are far better put together than you imagine. You may think they’re “undesirable” or “cheap” but you need to go sit in one and test drive one.

Badge snobbery must run in the family eh 🤪🤷‍♂️

Wasn’t that long ago you were bemoaning the same question when hopping out of your 1series, but times moved on in so many ways that it’s best to try for yourself the options put before you.

If it’s mainly your wife’s car, let her choose it.

I think only Dacia operate in the 'bottom-end' car market now.

My mate who work for Jaguar (and has worked 40yrs in the car industry) always tells me there is no such thing now as a bad car now. Standards are so high generally that companies simnply dont sell any if they are "really" rubbish. Not saying there arent the occasional dud but even that is less common now as even the cheaper brands are either owned by big companies or have their own good quality processes which are generally good.
I bought a Merc C class sport as an ex demo with about 4k on the clock in 2011. Still have it and it has 160k now. It is still an absolute joy to drive. No petrol head but it is quiet and smooth and incredibly comfortable. When people tell me they have driven a Merc and it is crap then I cant argue but I take it with a pinch of salt. I cant believe they built my car in 2011 then regressed to building crap.

Seeing a lot of Kia's in town these days, especially the hybrids/EVs. For sure the styling has got better and the warranty on the new ones is really good. Compared to a Ford, I'd choose the Kia (Ford have a poor rep for rust in these parts). Hell, the Niro is like the latest 'in' car to buy near me.

Seeing a lot of Kia’s in town these days,

5% market share now! No longer the under dog.

I've had lots of Hyundai hire cars and been perfectly happy with them.

A mate's wife refused to get a Skoda till she actually drove one. Maybe blindfold her and lead her into the dealership like a race horse into the starting gate?

"I think only Dacia operate in the ‘bottom-end’ car market now."

My last car died a couple of months before we were due to buy a new house. Not wanting to have outstanding finance limiting our choice of mortgages & houses, we bought a used sandero stepway for a few thousand cash. The plan was to swap out to something "nicer" once mortgage and house finalised.

That was 4 years ago and I can whole heartedly say the car has been brilliant and have no plans to change until it eventually dies. The car will be 7 years old in may and needed nothing bar tyres & routine servicing in that time. It remains rattle / rumble and squeak free. When the other car dies, it'll likely be being replaced by a duster or the estate version.

I’ve had several hire cars where you’d say there was a serious problem with the engine and it’s doing the manufacturer reputation down (i.e. “I’ll never buy one of these!”). I then wondered if there was some form of restriction on the engine to stop it being ragged during its hire life?

I think it's because they buy the base model with the lowest power engine. I had a Corsa once, it was a really nice car - quiet, nicely built (apparently), really smooth ride and good handling. But hardly any power. You had to absolutely thrash it to do stuff like join the motorway, which was actually brilliant fun. You could rag the nuts off it and still be doing 50mph.

Our kodiaq was pretty amazing. Proper waft along motoring. Not as clever inside as the yeti we had before that. VWGs quality is a bit dubious though & we’ve had lots of issues with the 4motion system cars in the family. Their software is also a bit test-it-on-the-user with seats that would misremember positions, vanishing radio presets, gearbox defaults that would change with every update and still be inconsistent across the ranges (superb, caravelle & kodiaq with the same box, behave totally differently). My yeti had every door replaced because of corrosion.

Kia used to produce soulless heaps. That is definitely no longer the case. MG, Dacia, Ssanyong perhaps.

You had to absolutely thrash it to do stuff like join the motorway, which was actually brilliant fun

Yep, that was pretty much it 🙂

As others have said, neither of them are bottom end anymore, simply mainstream. Saying that, I've never really liked any Hyundai I've sat in and my pal's 17 reg i30 has incredibly uncomfortable seats.

If I were you I wouldn't be looking at a mid range SUV with all the bells and whistles, I'd spend the same on a 'premium' brand. Depreciation is usually through the floor for specced up boggo cars and regardless what tales are told from my experience the 'premium' motors are nicer places to be in the long run. If I was buying a Ford/Kia/Seat/etc again I'd go mid spec and save some money.

Weird that she’ll drive a Ford, but not consider a Skoda.

Same as my wife.

I wouldn’t buy one but I find it impossible to believe you’d dismiss a Skoda because of the badge given how strong the lineup is.

Easy enough to dismiss when you can buy a Seat or VW that will be virtually the same.

We have a Kia Ceed Estate. Been incredibly reliable. Its now 8 years old, Kia were great with the 7 year warranty, they even covered items I thought of as consumables.
I still think they are a lot cheaper than their german counterparts. We've decided we will run this one into the ground rather than replace it, when it does eventually get replaced it will be with another Kia.
The inside of ours is still clean, no rattles. Carpets are worn, but thats fair enough and easy enough to replace if we thought it bothered us. Its a level 3, so has Sat Nav, USB and Bluetooth connectivity and rear parking camera.

If it’s mainly your wife’s car, let her choose it

This is certainly to be the case.  My job is to present her with a series of viable alternatives to test drive.

Having been in numerous taxis, I’ve noticed that after a hard taxi life for a few years the interiors of Kia or other lower end cars are noticeably more rattly and old feeling.

To some extent they are designed to ... that is some cars are targeted at a buyer that feels a need to change cars every couple of years. It's not necessarily manufacturer specific as the target new car buyer.

To some extent some cars are just not designed to last ... do high miles or be quick/easy to service or change parts easily whereas others are because their expected buyer is a fleet market.
It's not just trim levels or engine... it's the amount and solidity of metal in for example a door or bonnet.

and in more modern cars there is guff like sat nav and bluetooth integration which certainly on the cheaper ones is just "dated" by the changes to electronic wizardry almost from the time the car is designed.

I think it’s because they buy the base model with the lowest power engine. I had a Corsa once, it was a really nice car – quiet, nicely built (apparently), really smooth ride and good handling. But hardly any power. You had to absolutely thrash it to do stuff like join the motorway, which was actually brilliant fun. You could rag the nuts off it and still be doing 50mph.

even though running in is less important than it used to be ragging the nuts off it (which we all do in a 1.2 hire car) is rarely a good start to the first 5000 miles....

I think only Dacia operate in the ‘bottom-end’ car market now.

what about Arseton Martin?

BuMW?

Capri Pants?

Bearded Clamborgini?

Porsche Barking Spyder?

SEAT?

We’ve just gone through the same thing. Mrs Inbred is changing jobs and needs an automatic. Test drive a few Kia’s and Hyundai’s. Quality is okay but the drive was horrible. Steering felt Woolley and the suspension was horrible. They are no longer cheap either. Ended up with an X1. Knocked everything into a cocked hat to be honest.

what about Arseton Martin?

BuMW?

Capri Pants?

Bearded Clamborgini?

Porsche Barking Spyder?

SEAT?

You missed Kia Stinger. On topic too 🙂

Jenson Button

Sir has not had a Vauxhall Nokia.

Nor a VW Up! - Nasty, hateful, gutless little shlt-box.

I say that from the perspective of owning a Hiyundai i10 for the last 10 years. (Which has been great - never missed a beat, but is starting to get tatty inside now.)

Mrs has got a 67 plate kuga tdci awd 180bhp,and its actually quite good, and this is coming from a real car snob.

We looked at seat ateca, Nissan quashqai and x trail and bmw x1 and x3.

The bmws were clearly the best, but were also the most expensive by quite a long way.

The quashqai was awful I thought, very cheap feeling inside, the xtrail was a bit better.

Couldn't bring myself to consider a kia or hyundai, audi or skoda.

Check out the Mobius 2. An African built car.

what about Arseton Martin?
BuMW?
Capri Pants?
Bearded Clamborgini?
Porsche Barking Spyder?
SEAT?

mASSy Ferguson?
Swedish manufacturer- Vulva

Something I've noticed when visiting friends is that those with the plushest cars also have the most austere houses with the least comfortable sofas. The sort of sofas where there's nowhere to rest your head and the squab is too long for your legs, yet their cars have seats nearly as comfortable as my super plush sofa.

With the exception of entry level Dacias I find the interiors of almost any modern car perfectly accpetable, and even if the Dacia seats look awful they are remarkably comfortable on long trips: Pau - Berlin in two days and no aches.

In terms of connectivity the trend seems to be just replicating the phone, so for as long as a phone has bluetooth and/or a USB port your car's tech will be up to date.

German cars are rapidly loosing ground to the ‘bottom end’ IMHO. BMW’s tech is an absolute shocker compared to some of the more mainstream brands. I regularly hire cars in the US and it’s amazing how many brits are stuffy about US cars and buy German without realizing how much the Germans are falling behind.

Aside from the fact it’s not; BMW’s idrive is now pretty much the best in the business, it’s a million times better then Ford’s diabolical Sync system. I prefer it to the touch screen that was in my vRS. At least they still give you buttons / idrive controller rather than making everything controllable through touchscreens, which seems odd when it’s illegal to use a smart phone but pissing about on a giant iPad fixed to the car to change the temperature or whatever is ok.

Back on topic, the likes of Kia and Hyundai are making much better cars than they used to, easily the equivalent of a Ford or a Vauxhall. Sone of the plastics are a bit naff, but it’s easy enough to find crappy plastics in the big German brands now they’re chasing volume. Skoda are no longer a bargain basement brand, yes there are often pretty big discounts but they’re still far more expensive than they used to be.

Also have to remember than since BMW (for example) went for sales volume and became mass market, their quality has dropped with the use of cheaper plastics etc. It's not just the bottom end has progressed, but the top end has not carried on at the level it once was either.

I think only Dacia operate in the ‘bottom-end’ car market now.

Nah, Ssangyong hold that honour. Really, really cheap hard plastics on the dash, in a sort of Matt metallic grey and silver, looks like a Philips boom box from the 70’s.
I really like the Sportage, current styling is smooth and uncluttered, nicer looking than the Tucson, although the Tucson with the bigger engine goes like the clappers! The Sportage GT-line gets paddles with the auto ‘box, and is nicer finished, handles well for a tall-ish car, better than the Tucson. Nothing wrong with the Qashqai, higher spec models get heated screen, bigger infotainment screen, very reliable.
My personal favourite at the moment is the Ford Ecosport, especially the ST-Line spec; Fiesta based, lovely seats, heated screen, larger infotainment screen with satnav, paddle-shift with the auto, the 1.5 diesel can be had as a 4x4, although the little 1.0 Ecoboost goes well, very quiet and solid feeling.
Vauxhall are actually doing an SUV version of the Viva, which, while pretty basic, still gets cruise control, BT connection, etc.
The Corsa gets a heated screen, and are a delight to drive, I drove six back from Cornwall over the space of five days, from a body repair place, did a total of about 1200 miles in them, very comfy drive, quick and quiet engine, good auto ‘box as well.

Nor a VW Up! – Nasty, hateful, gutless little shlt-box.

Is that right? Well, I’ve driven lots of them, the Up!, Citigo and Mii, I drove a Citigo back from Cornwall, about 220 miles, two years old, had about 1200 miles on it. Overtook a Disco 4 on the M5 near Portishead, my satnav said I was doing 105, it didn’t feel at all stressed...
‘Cos my job for nearly four years has been vehicle logistics I’ve driven the majority of models across most of the major car brands sold in the UK, so I’ve had a good opportunity to get a good idea of what each has to offer, and I’ll take a Kia, Hyundai, Ford or Vauxhall over a BMW or Mercedes any day - Mercedes are seemingly plagued with electronic issues, get a flat battery and you also get an engine management light that has to be seen to, we’ve had two at work that just couldn’t be made to run after a flat battery, one couldn’t even be got out of Park, both had to be trailered away. Beemers are just not comfortable to drive, I hate the driving position, although their engines seem ok.
Although to be fair we had a fairly new X2 SUV in recently, which I really liked the look of, sadly I didn’t get a chance to drive it. Nice looking car, has a hint of Hyundai Tucson about its lines...