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The best example of rising inequality: if the minimum wage had kept pace with average rises in boardroom pay since it was introduced in 1997, it would presently stand at £20 an hour. It's £6.15
Which is more important?
For the rich or for the poor?
a and a 95 % tax rate obviously thereby negating the riches gain.
a and a 95 % tax rate obviously thereby negating the riches gain.
"Let me tell you how it will be, there's one for you nineteen for me" - shortly followed by the fab four moving abroad and paying nothing into the exchequer - a salutory lesson, non? 😆
It does have a ripe stench of hipocrisy about it... is Boris' wealth and status merely a product of his evidently high IQ?
Well if anyone can mix: Victoirian imperialism, Van Huesan shirts, Watneys Pale Ale, the Vatican City, Neil Kinnoch, the word schwerpiunkt!, Clause 4, brick like mobile phones, Billy Elliot, Churchillian pluck, red Robbo, self loathing, Tapas and fleeing to Essex, in one speech they are either Nigella Lawson or a pretty good after dinner speaker! 😉
Not sure how that qualifies him to be a mayor or a possible future PM though!
I've seen the poor at the supermarket checkout and, more to the point, their junk filled trolleys. You should think very carefully before considering any redistribution of wealth.
Blimey, we are so dull on here and so is The Guardian. You have to go to Brogan's piece in the Torygraph and the comments below to get some decent fun reaction to big bad Boris!
THM - you'd think from some of the reactions that nobody had ever heard of John Rawls 😀
You know what ninfan, I was thinking about Rawls reading this earlier. Joking apart, it would be good for people to read a Theory of Justice again. I remember my old man reading it when I was little. I rescued his original copy recently and have yet to reread it.
Michael Sandel is a more up-to-date advocate of much the same kind of argument. Another v good read.
Not read it for years I shall also dig out a copy to re read
If we are going to be briefly serious there is no doubt some members of society who will struggle to thrive due to poor educational achievement /pure genetic bad luck.
We can either help them , ignore them or use eugenics. I opt for the first choice.
I would further argue that many at the top are just ****s or only slightly more eloquently
The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat.
Zulu the Beatles did not go on exile that I am aware of - link/info??- and they ended up quite wealthy - perhaps we should have taxed more?
Just to put the self made man Myth to bed (admittedly from Wikipedia)
Branson was born in Blackheath, London, the son and eldest child of barrister Edward James Branson (10 March 1918 – 19 March 2011)[5] and Eve Huntley Branson (née Flindt).[5][6] His grandfather, the Right Honourable Sir George Arthur Harwin Branson, was a judge of the High Court of Justice and a Privy Councillor.[7] Branson was educated at Scaitcliffe School (now Bishopsgate School)[8] until the age of thirteen. He then attended Stowe School until the age of sixteen. Branson has dyslexia and had poor academic performance as a student, but later discovered his ability to connect with others.[9]
Presumably being the grandson of a Privvy Councillor is an everyman experience.
And the Thatcher grocers daughter myth.....
Thatcher (Denis) was already a millionaire when he met his second wife and financed her training as a barrister, and a home in Chelsea; he also bought a large house in Lamberhurst, Kent, in 1965. His firm employed 200 people by 1957, but he sold it to Castrol on 26 August 1965 after suffering a mild nervous breakdown in 1964. He received a seat on Castrol's parent board, which he retained when Burmah Oil took it over in 1966. He retired from Burmah in June 1975, four months after his wife won the Conservative Party leadership election.
In addition to being a director of Burmah Oil, he was chairman of the Atlas Preservative Co, vice-chairman of Attwoods plc from 1983 to January 1994, a director of Quinton Hazell plc from 1968 to 1998 and a consultant to Amec plc and CSX Corp. He was also a non-executive director of retail giant Halfords during the 1980s.
Obviously none of that had any impact whatsoever, and everything that happened after that would have happened had she not married the lovely Denis.
[url= http://www.cps.org.uk/files/factsheets/original/131128144200-Thatcherlecturev2.pdf ]Has anyone actually read the whole speech?[/url]
Makes an interesting read in its entirety if you have fifteen minutes spare.
Dont bother. There are people on here who only read the headlines on redtops or website 'news' paragraphs with no ulterior motive.
We cannot all have your broad grasp of the subject Hora nor make such incisive intellectual points
Forgive us.
derekfish - Member
Has anyone actually read the whole speech?Makes an interesting read in its entirety if you have fifteen minutes spare.
Yep, it's truly breathtaking how out of touch someone can be. The whole thing is utter tosh and is pretty much nothing but a one man circle jerk.
Amazing how the percentage of tax paid by the "rich" has increased so much and that by the poor has decreased. At the same time, the amount earned by the rich has gone through the roof while the "poor" have a smaller proportion of the income than ever (ok, maybe not "ever", but in the last few decades). I wonder if there's a connection. The "rich" pay more tax because they've got all the ****ing money.
Successive governments, both "left", "right" and coalitions have failed society in their one most important duty - to reduce the gap between rich and poor. Reduce this and everything else follows.
Of course, it's debatable whether governments can even reduce this gap anyway. They all promise they will, but instead it steadily increases. So, who is it down to? Society it seems, if there was such a thing. 🙂
Not only people on here, our entire news media these days is very selective in what it decides to 'air'. I enjoy Boris for his classic education and wit, true like a lot of Tory boys he's over enamoured with Thatchers legacy some of which is good some of which is equally evil, but you can't condense a speech like that down to one reference to IQ's and wealth, fact is the thickest boy in our school went on to being the wealthiest.
My view intelligence can very often get in the way of great wealth unless you are appropriately 'connected' in the first place.
Whilst I'm on, in full vent I personally think wealth should be capped, how wealthy does one need to be, once one has earned enough to never need to work again, why continue?
I certainly believe public servants should have their wealth capped particularly if it is a t the taxpayers expense, how many frontline services could we have saved if the cost of management were reduced.
Boris is set for great things as clearly he gets Guardian readers spilling their bean to cup fair trade coffee as evidenced here.
And long may he do so.
Boris is set for great things as clearly he gets Guardian readers spilling their bean to cup fair trade coffee as evidenced here.And long may he do so.
Boris, lol - total ledge.
Boris is set for great things as clearly he gets Guardian readers spilling their bean to cup fair trade coffee as evidenced here.
And long may he do so.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLcopterz.
Were you masturbating while you wrote that?
No just smiling at all the self opinioniated left leaning individuals here who haven't read his speech but spout crap which makes Boris look intelligent.
Ninfan, just in from a thanksgiving dinner and decisions between a quick refresher chapter of Rawls with a wee dram or bed!!! Funny that we should be thinking of the same author and it is surprising that he isn't back in vogue. I wonder if it still seems as relevant today?
That and bokomon's recommendation of Marcuse who, shame to say, I had never heard of before today. Funny what you learn on a Mtb forum!!!
Now if I could also understand this clutch mech stuff and whats odd about braking with a single pivot Tangerine!
latest research in on IQ and political beliefs
The idea is that for those who lack a cognitive ability to grasp complexities of our world, strict-right wing ideologies may be more appealing
Is this why it appeals to you ?
#trollthetroller
No just smiling at all the self opinioniated left leaning individuals here who haven't read his speech but spout crap which makes Boris look intelligent.
I read it but don't have time for a word by word analysis of his speech right now as I'm currently co-authoring another political article with a friend, despite being a man of science (real science that is, not political science).
As such, I think you're suffering from illusory superiority - considering the way in which you decided to respond to this thread. However, Teamhurtmore is a worthy adversary whilst you clearly are not.
Not like yourself co authoring a political article and stating your a man of real science 🙄
I was passing comment on the ill informed contributors who haven't read the speech, managed to be irate over something that not has been said.
Me I'm happy being below the radar but love the self opinioniated clap trap that sometimes is spouted on here.
Gave up on the reading idea and preferred to see how the arguments about Boris developed on Brogans Torygraph piece. I think STW should extend a warm welcome to the fiery PitchforkRebellion. He's quite something. I wonder what draws him to the Torygraph? But that seems to be the most punchy debate post Boris that I have read today!
Sleep well everyone and don't get too stressed, it's only Boris!!!!
Me I'm happy being below the radar but love the self opinioniated clap trap that sometimes is spouted on here.
Whereas you're contributing what exactly? Are you going to come out with some more well-informed and insightful gems like this?
Is it me but do most airline owners or Chief Exec's seem shameless attention whores who all rightfully deserve a knee to the groin?
Slowmart, this thread is banter. Get it....semi-serious, semi-offensive political bantahhh yeah? Don't swing internet trolling punches unless you want them swung back. 😛 No need to get in a hissy, yes some of us are left wing hippies but then again I'm a left winger who quite likes THM's posts. Life is boring if everyone agrees with you! I'd ****ing blow my brains out if everyone started agreeing with me because then I wouldn't have anyone to argue with.
You can reply to people wittily/jokingly/somewhat offensively without being outright nasty and coming off as an arse.
There are some not terrible gags in Boris's speech (which is "sidesplitting" by the standards of partisan memorial speeches) but there is some utter nonsense there too. When he reads out the essay topics and then says "I wonder how many candidates got 45 marks by dissenting vigorously from any of these ludicrous assertions?", it's really silly. Everyone knows that you don't get full marks in A level politics by just pounding away in one direction (as opposed to pounding away in One Direction, which is a completely different activity): if the proposition in the essay question is A, then you have to write "A is a ludicrous oversimplification, B is a far more credible opposing narrative, but in fact elements of A are credible, so most likely the real story is something like AB". A kid that writes ten pages of pro Thatcher stuff is going to get the same grade (or maybe slightly better) than a kid that writes ten pages of anti Thatcher stuff - mediocre.
THM - you'd think from some of the reactions that nobody had ever heard of John Rawls
I don't really care for his philosophy work but his innovations in the construction industry were impressive.
And the Thatcher grocers daughter myth.....
To be fair, she did manage to do really well at school and finish a chemistry degree at Oxford without the assistance of particularly wealthy or influential people - which just goes to show the importance of education in social mobility, a value she held dear throughout her time as Education Secretary and Prime Minister...oh.
nothing but a one man circle jerk.
I would find that quite impressive.
slowmart - Member
I was passing comment on the ill informed contributors who haven't read the speech, managed to be irate over something that not has been said.
I read the speech, to which bit do you refer?
konabunny - Member"nothing but a one man circle jerk."
Not impressive. Just him running in a circle onstage, jacking it, shouting "freemarkets...wealth creation...empire...THATCHER*"
*completion
To be fair, she did manage to do really well at school and finish a chemistry degree at Oxford
No one is disagreeing with that point, mark you she was turned down by Oxford initially and only got in because someone else dropped out. Not only that she also had very little political success until backed by Denis. Which in my book tends to suggest that despite the fact she had a fearsome intellect she was about at a time when being a woman was distinct career embuggerance, and still only overcame the obstacles to success due to influences that have little to do with her merit as an individual, which is basically the point.
Not impressive. Just him running in a circle onstage, jacking it, shouting "freemarkets...wealth creation...empire...THATCHER*"
Boris Johnson +
The CPS +
The Annual Maggie Lecture
And from the heady cocktail, Lifer, you were expecting what exactly?
but then again I'm a left winger who quite likes THM's posts
Quite!!? Only Quite?? I am quite upset by that. 😉
teamhurtmore - Member
Boris Johnson +
The CPS +
The Annual Maggie LectureAnd from the heady cocktail, Lifer, you were expecting what exactly?
Nothing. This pretty much sums it up for me:
We're still not sure we're convinced. The only argument that seems highly persuasive for now is that saying offensive things in a fusty lecture that's unlikely to get much media coverage will get you a lot of media coverage.
It's stretching in the extreme to suggest Boris links social poverty and IQ. And it's a circular conversation to say where's the value in your contribution when individuals haven't read the speech and then make ill informed comments.
Boris also refers to the lack of social mobility, financial greed and envy as drivers. Like my new friend Tom the political writing scientist suggests we aren't going to agree all the time. 😉
Asking a politician to be succinct and economical with words is never going to happen but I find Boris an amazing phenomena which says more about today's society, democracy and lack of appetite to vote and this bloke becoming Mayor not once but twice than the drivel spouted on hear or by him.
What's does that say about our society?
I think the speech is interesting for how often it mentions social mobility and income inequality as concerns.
self opinioniated left leaning individuals
What does "self opinioniated" actually mean?
I wonder what draws him to the Torygraph?
I suspect , not having read it, that he enjoys baiting folk ...imagine folk on the internet going out there way to argue with those they despise*. Could not happen here eh.
I read the start of Boris speech but the questions bit at the very start showed how "highbrow" and skewed it was going to be I lasted 3 pages.
* to be clear I am not suggesting I do this, though I suspect we all have at some point, nor that I despise you ,I dont.
What tyres for social mobility?
says more about today's society, democracy and lack of appetite to vote and this bloke becoming Mayor not once but twice than the drivel spouted on hear or by him.
Totally agree. Boris and his ilk still have a massive influence on our society and the majority of people are so disengaged with politics, myself included, that we do nothing about it.
How this is fixed I have no idea, I think I will move to iScotland after the yes vote.
Asking a politician to be succinct and economical with words is never going to happen but I find Boris an amazing phenomena which says more about today's society, democracy and lack of appetite to vote and this bloke becoming Mayor not once but twice than the drivel spouted on hear or by him.
That's a very poorly constructed sentence. Not that you're spouting drivel or anything, but what does it actually mean?
What's does that say about our society?
The fact that he was elected mayor twice? That lots of people are idiots easily swayed by his affable floppy haired funny bumbling fool routine. As someone pointed out by the standards of politics he's absolutely hilarious. Not a good reason to vote for him though.
Grum, Winston put my point more eloquently.
And I'm living proof that
It's stretching in the extreme to suggest Boris links social poverty and IQ. And it's a circular conversation to say where's the value in your contribution when individuals haven't read the speech and then make ill informed comments.
On the basis of the above I have now read through the entire speech twice more, and I am pleased to report that my intial impression that Boris was ponitificating about Social Mobility and scuh like things whilst clearly having no idea of or contact with the reality for the vast majority is correct.
A good take on it by Mr Bell 😆
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slowmart - Member
It's stretching in the extreme to suggest Boris links social poverty and IQ.
Why would he say 'Whatever you may think of the value of IQ tests, it is surely relevant to a conversation about equality that as many as 16 per cent of our species have an IQ below 85, while about 2 per cent have an IQ above 130' then?
Taken in a broader context using the previous sentence
"Like it or not, the free market economy is the only show in town. Britain is competing in an increasingly impatient and globalised economy, in which the competition is getting ever stiffer.
No one can ignore the harshness of that competition, or the inequality that it inevitably accentuates; and I am afraid that violent economic centrifuge is operating on human beings who are already very far from equal in raw ability, if not spiritual worth."
At the very most he's opening a debate on the subject.
This is just Borris realigning himself for the next phase in his career
He doesnt have to bother being nice to the plebs of London town now, because hes got to focus on financial backers for his Tory leadership bid and the 2019 election
So that means firmly reassuring his potential wealthy donors and banking chums that he will ensure that the rich keep their place at the top of society and the ghastly lower orders will be socially immobile
boris should be introduced to wayne.