[Closed] Boris - boot in trap moment, Obama content

"ancestral dislike of the British Empire"

Don't all Americans?

In all seriousness, can anyone link us to what Boris has [b]actually[/b] said/written rather than outrage reportage of what he's supposedly said and how offensive it is?

There was IIRC discussion about this before Obama became president.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/deadlineusa/2008/dec/03/obama-grandfather-maumau-torture

Lol, major history fail:

Mr Johnson ... has argued that America would never give up control of its own affairs in the way that the UK has done as a member of the EU.

The US is a union of states who gave up almost ALL their powers to a central government. It was supposed to be a loose federation, not a single country.

So Boris is as wrong as it's possible to be!

Hmmm; you could argue that having made that mistake 2 centuries ago, he means that we should learn from it and not make it again?

The US is a union of states who gave up almost ALL their powers to a central government. It was supposed to be a loose federation, not a single country

not really comparing apples with apples there.. Boris is talking about the present establishment, not that of individual 'states' in a bygone era, so i think the comment is still very much valid.

has he actually said anything wrong? Obama is (according to wikipedia) part-Kenyan - his fathers side is from Kenya, his mothers is from Europe.

"It is deeply anti-democratic - and much as I admire the United States, and much as I respect the president, I believe he must admit that his country would not dream of embroiling itself in anything of the kind.
"It is incoherent. It is inconsistent, and yes it is downright hypocritical. The Americans would never contemplate anything like the EU, for themselves or for their neighbours in their own hemisphere. Why should they think it right for us?"
Mr Johnson refers in his article to the removal of a bust of Winston Churchill from the Oval Office when Mr Obama became president.
"No-one was sure whether the president had himself been involved in the decision," he said.
"Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British Empire - of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender."

Oh, what a surprise!

Referring to Churchill Bust: "Some said" - quite specifically Boris [b]not[/b] saying it

Do these leftie f***wits never actually read what has actually been written before boarding the outrage bus?

Politicians making efforts to influence another countries electoral process. Dreadful

[i]Obama deserves to win because he seems talented, compassionate, and because he offers the hope of rejuvenating the greatest country on earth in the eyes of the rest of us.[/i]
[i]
If Obama wins, he will have established that being black is as relevant to your ability to do a hard job as being left-handed or ginger-haired, and he will have re-established America's claim to be the last, best hope of Earth.[/i]

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/3562965/Barack-Obama-Why-I-believe-he-should-be-the-next-President.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/3562965/Barack-Obama-Why-I-believe-he-should-be-the-next-President.html[/url]

Although his ancestry and skin colour now seem very relevant to Boris.

Do these leftie f***wits never actually read what has actually been written before boarding the outrage bus?

I think we will find out imminently.

quite specifically Boris not saying it

indeed. Simply inferring it. Getting it out in the open there. With the aid of his public profile. Very different.

Boris is a Yank anyway.

Ninfan -
Oh, what a surprise!

Referring to Churchill Bust: "Some said" - quite specifically Boris not saying it

Do these leftie f***wits never actually read what has actually been written before boarding the outrage bus?

Wow, the ironing is strong.

BJ wrote the words "Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British Empire - of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender."

I'd say that makes "part-kenyan president" BJ's words.

I think when one finds oneself defending BJ's shite, one has to admit one is some kind of "special" right wing nut-job ****-wit.

Do these leftie f***wits never actually read what has actually been written before boarding the outrage bus?

Easy now tiger....

I'd question the relevance of BJ even referring to BO's ancestry e as having ANY relevance to the Brexit discussion. If, it is relevant then it's fair to say we can question BJ's ancestry too. Is he not after all, technically an American?...

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31475945 ]Link[/url]
(Did he renounce it?)

My point being, I'll restate, how is BO ancestry relative to Brexit & why did BJ feel necessary to refer to it?

I'm not outraged, rather amused - BJ should toddle off to join Farage the rate he's going.

It is, IMHO, an own goal for BJ..

Here, quoted from the Graun, is what BJ said:

"Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president’s ancestral dislike of the British empire – of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender" referring to the said removal of Churchills bust...

Which wasn't removed just moved..

[url= https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/27/fact-check-bust-winston-churchill ]Link[/url]

I'd question the relevance of BJ even referring to BO's ancestry e as having ANY relevance to the Brexit

He is using a story about the bust of Winston Churchill as the hook to bring you into the article and his arguments against EU membership, it is what good writers do. He is drawing no relevance from Obama's ancestry to his Brexit argument - but it is relevant to the story because if you didn't know his father was from Kenya, it would be difficult to understand why people could think he had antipathy to the empire.

BTW the actual article was in the Sun [url= http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7095695/UK-and-America-can-better-friends-than-ever-Mr-Obama-if-we-LEAVE-the-EU-says-Boris-Johnson.htmlhttp://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7095695/UK-and-America-can-better-friends-than-ever-Mr-Obama-if-we-LEAVE-the-EU-says-Boris-Johnson.html ]here.[/url]

[i]it would be difficult to understand why people could think he had antipathy to the empire[/i]

other than the USA's *fairly* well publisised break from a colonial British past?

other than the USA's *fairly* well publisised break from a colonial British past?

But that wasn't what the people who were pushing the story at the time were suggesting.

ninfan - Member

Referring to Churchill Bust: "Some said" - quite specifically Boris not saying it

You're saying Boris doesn't write his own column?

BJ seems to be infected by the tide of racism sweeping across the Eton party, with Beetroot Face joining in Goldsmith's vile slurs on his mayoral rival.

it is what good writers do

Writers of fiction, which is what Bozo specialises in.

Boris is absolutely spot on. The US would never join a group like the EU, as he says they would never be bound by a non US court, they haven't ratified numerous UN Treaties. They would never accept freedom of movement. Over his Presidency Obama has very deliberately and publically focused towards Asia, exactly what we should be doing. The US knows EU will be materially weakend without the UK with the risk of a collapse greatly increased [b]when[/b] Greece defaults, that's bad for the US so they want us to Remain, its our taxpayers who will help fund a bailout (via European Stability Fund) so no skin off their nose. Ditto foreign policy, the UK is much more closely aligned to US so they want us inside the EU to argue. Freedom of movement and a superior European court are "not their problem"

The US is a union of states who gave up almost ALL their powers to a central government.

not really comparing apples with apples there.. Boris is talking about the present establishment, not that of individual 'states' in a bygone era, so i think the comment is still very much valid.

It's not, because the UK to USA comparison is not comparing apples with apples either.

@molgrips tell that to the Texans etc.

Not sure you're going to get very far with that line of argument. US is more federal than Europe.

Think this article sums it up for me;

[url=blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/barack-obama-wants-boris-johnson-prefer-gutter]blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/barack-obama-wants-boris-johnson-prefer-gutter[/url]

[i]And with that cowardly sentence, filled with ‘some saids’ so he could sneak away from its implications, if needed – Johnson abandoned what few rights he possessed to be treated as a decent politician, journalist or man.[/i]

BJ seems to be infected by the tide of racism sweeping across the Eton party, with Beetroot Face joining in Goldsmith's vile slurs on his mayoral rival.

What does it mean when, upon hearing someone being accused of racism, you immediately assume it's directed at you?

Boris has form for making stuff up to promote arguments especially about the EU . "some said" is in the absence of an attribution of the quote , simply an indicator of a" fact" or "opinion "that Boris has made up and a device for him to both say the thing and deny responsibility for it as Ninfan so helpfully illustrates.

Referring to Churchill Bust: "Some said" - quite specifically Boris not saying it

Do these leftie fwits never actually read what has actually been written before boarding the outrage bus?

The comments are from BJ's "newspaper" column, so yes Boris is quite specifically saying it.

Do these right-wing fwits actually read what has actually been written before boarding the outrage bus?

I also believe that the Churchill bust was removed before Obama became president. Also, why should a national leader have a bust of another national leader in his office anyway?

Actual facts about the bust:

[url= https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/01/27/ted-cruzs-claim-that-one-of-obamas-very-first-acts-was-returning-a-bust-of-churchill/ ]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/01/27/ted-cruzs-claim-that-one-of-obamas-very-first-acts-was-returning-a-bust-of-churchill/[/url]

sorry to derail the outrage wagon.

it is what good writers do

I wouldn't say a good writer because that trick will only work on those who already on the same page as Boris (pardon the pun!)

Boris Johnson is a truly vile human being, who will stoop to anything to fulfil his lust for power and money. The fact that he has inexplicably managed to camaflage this fact with his bumbling buffoon act is testimony to the limited mental capacity of those falling for the act.

Questions asked of Sadiq are what he should expect given his past meetings with people directly connected with extremist views. As the Charlie Ebdo editoral of a few weeks ago if you are acused of racism and intimidated for even asking a legitinate question then that is the sign of something far more sinister.

Not just bollocks, but utter and complete....

[img] [/img]

Theres something sinister afoot alright. But its not coming from Sadiq Khan....

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/22/tories-attempt-smear-sadiq-khan-repellent ]The Tories’ attempts to smear Sadiq Khan are repellent[/url]

"Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president’s ancestral...

It's a weird suggestion that Obama removed Churchill because he dislikes the UK because he has some sort of genetic or inherited grudge from his father's Kenyan genes.

sorry to derail the outrage wagon.

Which outrage wagon would that be?....

There's still a bust, just that the one (loaned by Blair in 2001) was returned as per protocol. One still remains (the one gifted in 1965).

Questions asked of Sadiq are what he should expect given his past meetings with people directly connected with extremist views

Questions have been asked and answers provided but Goldsmith continues to blow Lynton Cosby's racist dog whistle.

[i]Which outrage wagon would that be?....[/i]

those who felt Boris had made a good point about it.

How many outrage wagons are there in this thread?!

Lots of bollocks here

Starting (apparantly) with Boris's BS, closely followed by Farage - both in the same mould
The our deputy chancelor weighing in with 'dog-whistle racism" - WTF is that? Not relevant here, but nice lazy use of "racism"
Kate Hoey's "patronising, insulting, hypocritical" attack followed by Paddy Pantsdowns equally nonsensical rebuttal on QT last night
Then a fine "one has to admit one is some kind of "special" right wing nut-job ****-wit."

An excellent way to end the working week!

uestions have been asked and answers provided but Goldsmith continues to blow Lynton Cosby's racist dog whistle.

[i]“I think Sadiq Khan is using a smokescreen to hide the fact that he has associated with a lot of people who support terrorism and I think that does raise questions about his suitability to be mayor of London and especially when terrorism is such an imminent threat to the UK.

He has never denied that he has associated with these people and it’s also a fact that those people have supported terrorism.

Now the question is why, and on what basis, was Sadiq Khan associating with them.

And I think this is an area for legitimate scrutiny, it’s not Islamophobic or racist to ask questions and to ask Sadiq Khan to provide answers and it’s not.. he can’t hide behind these slogans of racism or Islamophobia.”[/i]

The above quote is from Atma Singh,Ken Livingston's former aide and Labour Labour Party adviser.

It's also worth noting that it was Sadiq Khan's former aide Shueb Salar who claimed the brutal murder of Lee Rigby was fake, and that Khan himself was reported as recently as February to still be "following" ISIS / Daesh cheerleaders on Twitter (Majid Freeman and Hamja Ahsan).

[quote=teamhurtmore ]
An excellent way to end the working week!

And a bit of jamba [s]bullying[/s] epic bantz to boot!

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html ]The original story written in 2009 is here.[/url]

I don't live in London, so don't know the ins and outs of campaign, but I have picked up that some are insinuating that Goldsmith is running a subtle islamophobic campaign.

I always thought London was a fairly multicultural city - isn't campaigning to be the Mayor based on a racism-lite platform in failty cosmopolitan world city just sheer madness and something that will be hammered at the ballot boxes

The posse would be lost without it, ATP!

[Are you back riding yet, I always expect to see you on Hankley?]

[quote=teamhurtmore ]
[Are you back riding yet, I always expect to see you on Hankley?]

Hoping for a pootle on Sunday thanks, first offroad since July 😮

Glad that you are better. Go and try those cheeky berms on H'down (but watch out for the hole on the side of the third one)

But the whole Brexit debate is bringing political dialogue down to a very low/poor level not seen since the independence nonsense

The stench of Crosby's dead cat is all over Goldsmith's campaign. Shame really - I used to think he wasn't the worst kind of Tory. Y'know, unpalatable but he used to talk a bit of sense now and then. He hasn't seemed quite so comfortable in his own skin since having to tow the party line a bit more. The slightly islamophobic stuff these last few days has been disappointing. It just distracts from the issues as one group are shouting "racist" and the others are shouting "professionally offended". Everybody stops talking about the important stuff.

Some said Boris' aversion to the truth is due to his part-Turkish ancestry, but it's actually due to his all-ego personality.

Old Soames talking some sense though according to the Beeb

Asked whether Mr Johnson is fit to lead the party in future, he [Soames] says he "doesn't have the stature".

Time and time again his judgement is awry and he shows in this article a remarkable but entirely consistent disregard for the facts, the truth and for all judgement.

He says Boris is a friend of his, "but this is business" - and claims his comments demonstrate "he is not really a serious figure". "Boris needs to grow up," he adds.

How many outrage wagons are there in this thread?!

I don't know - I'm confused! That's why I was asking....

Sod it, I'm going down the pub!

But the whole Brexit debate is bringing political dialogue down to a very low/poor level not seen since the independence nonsense

I don't think you can really refer to it as dialogue. You'd get a higher standard of 'dialogue' in a school playground

This is all about the two sects of the Tory party. They've been dying to have this out for decades. Mix in some deeply personal animosity and petty jealousies between that main self-entitled protagonists, and I think by June you're going to be looking at this little spat as a moral highpoint.

Its a good job theres nothing important at stake

Oh... wait.... hang on a minute....

The Tories always do their bllx in over Europe - they never learn (one thing we agree on Binns 😉 }

But the bare faced Brexit lies (eg cost of membership) repeated every day really are beginning to sound like wee 'eck in all his glory (sic)

Politicians making efforts to influence another countries electoral process. Dreadful

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/3562965/Barack-Obama-Why-I-believe-he-should-be-the-next-President.html

There is a difference between Boris, a journalist, commenting in a UK paper on American affairs and a serving American president visiting the UK to campaign. The equivalent would be David Cameron going to New York during an election and getting trying to persuade Americans to vote one way with an article published in the New York Times.

The equivalent would be David Cameron going to New York during an election

It's a referendum we've got coming up, not an election.

HTH.

I think a referendum is a specific type of election, what with election just meaning choice. Hence the need to specific what kind of election: general election, local election, European election... "HTH"

our deputy chancelor weighing in with 'dog-whistle racism" - WTF is that?

I think a referendum is a specific type of election

I'm sure the candidates will agree.

Are we talking about this Borris Johnson?

"What a relief it must be for Blair to get out of England. It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies,"

and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3571742/If-Blairs-so-good-at-running-the-Congo-let-him-stay-there.html

(Don't worry it's just satire , obvs)

Hes just your standard Oxford educated elite who thinks racism is fine as part of political discourse

Goldsmith has been exposed as a clueless egoist who's campaign seems to be about saying 'sadiq Kahn and terrorist' enough in the same sentence in the hope that it'll get him the position someone of his good breeding and worthy stature obviously deserves

Private Eye has been covering one of the candidates who's been writing to every elector whose name is Singh saying "Dear Mr Singh, have you ever noticed how amazing Sikhs are, yeah me too PS I love that big temple in India, would you vote for me? Cheers", which is a bit odd because not all the recipients are Sikh and few still like to be pandered to so obviously. I now cannot remember for the life of me whether it's Khan or Goldsmith that's doing it, though

Obama's back of the queue comments drown everything else out. Britain and America's ties go beyond the frickin EU so who the frig does he think he is with his sassy threats. He's nothing more than an outgoing president acting as Dave's lackey. Jog on.

BJ seems to be infected by the tide of racism sweeping across the Eton party, with Beetroot Face joining in Goldsmith's vile slurs on his mayoral rival.

Britain and America's ties go beyond the frickin EU so who the frig does he think he is with his sassy threats

As much as the Brexiters don't like to believe it, I suspect there is a lot of truth in what he has said.
They will negotiate an agreement with a bigger trading block, so yes it means we fall down the list.
No love in politics is there

Not sure what old BJ is trying to achieve here.

He's positioning himself to take over the leadership of the Conservative Party. I don't think he particularly cares about Europe either way.

I now cannot remember for the life of me whether it's Khan or Goldsmith that's doing it, though

Goldsmith

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/16/zac-goldsmith-leaflet-british-indians-heirlooms

The EU Referendum is in June, but next month there are Parlimentary/Assembly Elections in 3 of the UKs 4 Nations. Judging by BBC coverage of them they think Trump is running in Scotland, Clinton in Wales and NI...well let's be honest we'll never see any political news from NI again on UK News unless they start rewiring car ignition circuits with Semtex again.

As much as the Brexiters don't like to believe it, I suspect there is a lot of truth in what he has said.
They will negotiate an agreement with a bigger trading block, so yes it means we fall down the list.
No love in politics is there

As others have said on TV today Obama is a lame duck President, come November he is gone. We would get more insight if we asked Trump/Cruz or Clinton the question as one of them will be President come the time of any negotiations.

@allthepies, sorry to miss the fun today but we all have life away from STW from time to time. Won't be around much this weekend either as campaigning to do and 400 leaflets to deliver, co volunteers have another 600 to do also.

What does it mean when, upon hearing someone being accused of racism, you immediately assume it's directed at you?

@binners it seems it was #Livingstonebollix after all based on the quote posted by @just5minutes

Boris has never had a good relationship with Obama not least as the Americans have refused to pay £9m in London Congestion Charge spuriously claiming its not a toll but a tax and therefore with their diplomatic status refusing to pay it.

@tmh if Vote Leave wins Boris is a shoe in for Party Leader within 12 months, if Remain wins Osbourne will have to wait 2-3 years and with more banana skins to come from a Greek default/EU economic crises its not clear he could withstand a challenge from Boris in a leadership contest. All my opinion of course 🙂

If Brexit means no free trade deal between UK and US, as they are concentrating their effort on a trade deal with the EU...

Then doesn't that mean that the NHS is saved from all the negative aspects of TTIP that we were being told about last year?

Bozo is more likely motivated by his history of trying to dodge his own personal US taxes than giving a crap about any issue of public finance.

Then doesn't that mean that the NHS is saved from all the negative aspects of TTIP that we were being told about last year?

Indeed. If only we had politicians in whose hands we would feel safe putting the NHS then the Brexit argument would be a slam dunk.

The US is a union of states who gave up almost ALL their powers to a central government. It was supposed to be a loose federation, not a single country.

Come again? Do you read history?

Every time you mention your pro-out remain fans become almost personal and threatening. I'm for out. Full stop. On another forum in a poll out of 771 polled 62% say leave, 21% remain. No one in the leave camp threatened or insulted anyone.

What is a 'State' hora? Now think about the name of the country Obama is President of. That's your clue.

? Has anyone been threatened here? Jamba comes in for some stick, but only because makes stuff up to support his arguments, which is a trait he shares with bojo

Boris is a shoe in for Party Leader

& what f-ing disaster that would be - BJ is the most transparent politico on the market at the moment when it comes to putting his ambition first..

A country formed out of destroying the indigenous people torn apart by civil war. I don't think it was a consensus

If Britain where to leave the EU its quite likley those negotiations would stall completely.

It has been the UK which has been pushing the EU towards a deal with the US.

I love this without us they are nothing and they will collapse without us Brexiters meme.

JY as I posted EU is very US sceptic, its the UK which is pushing the deal and the terms are very "corporate power" orientated and very much against left leaning EU political bias. Portollio on This Week said, "I'd love to take Obama to a session of the EU so he can experience the hostility that exists towards the US"

@kimbers I have strongly held views based on facts and my interpretation of fhem, you and others don't like many of them as they generally justify government policy here and abroad.

As for Conservative divisions you have a Laboir party lead by a leader who is deeply eurosceptic yet is campaigning to remain in a EU he wants tomsee reformed. What he's skipping over is that the EU will indeed continue to reform and mive further and further away from what he wants. Its a political project for a United States of Europe. Whether they can get there I son't kniw as the imoending Greek default could well destroy it in a massive and very messy financial crises far mkre severe than 2007/8

Personally I hold both BJ and BO in equal contempt pair of self serving dog fiddlers.

Alaska to US v UK to EU.

I think that's a different form of proportionality.

There's lots of trade between Germany-UK, UK-France either way and it's not just 'luxury cars' as one stated yesterday. Do you think German leadership will want to lose this trade route/partnership that might harm their own economy/businesses?

A solution will be offered at the 11th hour. It'll be brinkmanship. In the run up though we'll see more threads and smears from Tory politicians aimed at us, the leave voters.

Oh but if we leave the Tories will be able to do whatever they want? Vote them out then.

Obama coming here and telling us how to think. The recent Obama speech telling us why we should remain talking about WWII together but he omits the massive debt the US strung us with to help the demise of our influeblnce globally. Now the silver-tongued speaker is telling us that 'xenophobia' if leaving the EU is linked to facism that we all fought together. He's not said it directly but linked.

As for BJs naked ambition. So what? He might want to be PM. I'd rather have him than Osborne or the bloke who has nice ideas sometimes but is unelectable.

Boris is very popular amongst Tories and centre ground voters, he won the London mayorship and thats a hard thing to do for a Tory given London voter mix. The lefties don't like him nitbleast as deep down they know he's charismatic and popular

BTW I'm out of further discussion. I'm out and know a fair few more who don't want the hassle of being brow beaten but have chosen our direction. Bye

JY as I posted EU is very US sceptic

The lefties don't like him nitbleast as deep down they know he's charismatic and popular

Hora use california - FFS why do you think I mentioned another state - to avoid that "point" - the removal of one state from the USA would not cease the trade agreement nor will it with the EU