[Closed] Body Positivty

Somoenes size/weight, and the healthiness thereof, is between them and their doctor.

We’re not.

It’s about being nice and not bullying someone for not being supermodel perfect.

You don't have to pretend anything because of a story about a celebrity on a website, HTH.

We’re not.

It’s about being nice and not bullying someone for not being supermodel perfect.

Not according to Lizzo. She thinks being obese is normal. My other problem is that her career is no doubt at least partly built on body positivity. So spouting off that body positivity has been commercialised is more than a little hypocritical.

Somoenes size/weight, and the healthiness thereof, is between them and their doctor

I agree, but trying to tell people that's it's ok and normal to be morbidly obese is crossing that line and quite frankly dangerous.

I’m reading as she’s saying the opposite. She’s saying that body positivity has been hijacked by some some who be considered to fit in with the norm. She is saying that it is Ok if you feel happy with your weight. You know accept the risks it comes with it and not have to feel you need to be slim.

Someone could be of normal weight and have loads of fat around their organs then again someone could be overweight and be above average healthy. It's the visual clues that drive the prejudice.
Steroid abuse tends to increase internal fat and some of those guys are ripped.
I have more distain for hot tubbers myself.

I’m reading as she’s saying the opposite. She’s saying that body positivity has been hijacked by some some who be considered to fit in with the norm. She is saying that it is Ok if you feel happy with your weight. You know accept the risks it comes with it and not have to feel you need to be slim.

But why accept the risks and just let people be unhealthy. That didn't happen with smokers, and they are probably the most stigmatised group around in terms of personal health. No one ran around saying "be smoker positive". It was universally agreed to be bad for you and over time Les and less people are smoking.
So why is it ok to accept people being obese?

That didn’t happen with smokers

Nobody put weight on by standing next to an overweight person eating something.

Plus, no one has to smoke.

Someone could be of normal weight and have loads of fat around their organs then again someone could be overweight and be above average healthy. It’s the visual clues that drive the prejudice.
Steroid abuse tends to increase internal fat and some of those guys are ripped.
I have more distain for hot tubbers myself.

I'm not sure if that is medically correct, but we are not talking about folks who are a bit chubby here. This about morbid obesity.

Nobody put weight on by standing next to an overweight person eating something.

True, but it's not just second hand smoking, first hand smoking is massively stigmatised nowadays.

Terrible, isn't it.

First we couldn't hate people because they were brown; then we couldn't hate people because they were queer; now if we're going to be told that can't hate people because they're fat then what are we going to do?

Thank god we still have vegans, hey?

Not according to Lizzo. She thinks being obese is normal.

Being obese is absolutely normal, she's from Texas.

People can be as body positive as they like but Diabetes and Heart Disease don't care and will kill you.

True, but it’s not just second hand smoking, first hand smoking is massively stigmatised nowadays.

So is obesity but as Tom points out you can’t catch an illness from someone else being obese.

first hand smoking is massively stigmatised nowadays.

Best of luck stigmatising eating.

Lol @ Cougar

what are we going to do?

Get a haircut, hippy.

It's an interesting topic. I am Obese, less so than I was, but still Obese, I almost wrote 'technically' Obese like I rock around the place looking like Arnie in his prime, but no, I'm fat AF.

Happily for me, whilst "fat and fit" is mostly a oxymoron, I have mostly managed it. Perfect BP, sub-60 resting rate etc etc. Was't always the case. In 2005 I was Type 2 diabetic and managed to reverse that, thanks to Bike Riding and associated weight loss. In 2013 I was prescribed Statins, you don't need to be fat to have high cholesterol, but it was the cause of mine. Again, I don't need to take those anymore.

I have a BMI of 33, it will likely reduce my life expectancy by around 4 years. My Doctor sugarcoats it and says with my muscle mass she would consider my 'true' BMI to be around the 30 mark and she's not concerned at the moment, but as I get older and less active, I could quite easily jump much higher.

Lizzo however, based on what data can be found online has a BMI of around 50, which will reduce her life expectancy by around 14 years. She's 32 at the moment, which is a few years after I discovered how my health was being damaged by my weight.

DO I think over-weight people should be poked fun at in the street, have overt comments made about them in Restaurants or otherwise bullied? No, no one who is overweight enough to have to worry much about it, is unaware they're overweight. There's denial that makes you moan at your wife for shrinking your 30" waist jeans so they don't fit anymore and there's being shown the way to the 'special' jeans they keep in the back of M&S with the elasticated 40" Waist.

That said, it shouldn't be celebrated, it's one thing to have some dickhead moaning because the latest popstar isn't the size 10 they'd ideally like to store in their **** bank, but it's another to say they it's positive to have a BMI of 50, anymore than being a smoker - they have roughly the same effect on life expectancy.

Nobody should be bullied over their body shape/size but why are we pushing it as a “normal” state to live in?

Because, whilst "nobody should be bullied over their body shape/size," they are. So what are you going to do about that?

Equating it with smoking is bogus because smokers don't get random abuse yelled at them by passing strangers on the other side of the road for the crime of having a cigarette. If you're overweight it's a near-daily occurrence that someone feels the need to pass comment on it. And god forbid that you might try to do something about it like take up jogging or, well, cycling.

This is basically the "all lives matter" argument again. In order to fight prejudice it may be necessary to overcompensate for a while before an equilibrium can be found. When girls and young women have stopped being driven to attempting suicide because their 'friends' have been mercilessly ripping the piss about their weight, then maybe we can talk about whether pretty much the whole of Western society telling them they're not normal is a great idea or not.

First we couldn’t hate people because they were brown; then we couldn’t hate people because they were queer; now if we’re going to be told that can’t hate people because they’re fat then what are we going to do?

No-one is hating on anyone. This isn't about mocking anyone or bullying. It's about promoting an unhealthy weight problem as being normal. P-jay has the best post on the thread and kudos for being so honest.
My wife is morbidly obese, so I know about the health issues that go hand in hand. She is diabetic, has pain in her knees on a daily basis cannot walk upstairs without having to have a sit down. This should not be promoted as normal. If we normalize it we are encouraging people to develop these and other associated health issues.

Cougar nails it.

I’m on the other end of the scale and faced regular abuse when I was younger for being skinny, it has seemed to stop as I’ve got older though. Sadly I don’t think it’s the case for those who are overweight.

Best of luck stigmatising eating.

Find someone overweight. send them into Greggs for a cream cake. See how long it takes for someone to prove wrong your notion that you can't stigmatise eating. I give it 40 seconds.

Find someone overweight. send them into Greggs for a cream cake. See how long it takes for someone to prove wrong your notion that you can’t stigmatise eating. I give it 40 seconds.

I was thinking more generally, as with smoking.

No-one is hating on anyone. This isn’t about mocking anyone or bullying. It’s about promoting an unhealthy weight problem as being normal.

No-one here perhaps. Yet. But the problem is that over in the real world these two things are inextricably intertwined. Ie, just because you may believe you have separated them doesn't mean that everyone else has.

You need to be very very careful when throwing around words like "normal" with gay abandon, that's how we get to Othering. Telling someone overweight that their weight may be affecting their health is one thing, telling them they are abnormal is quite another.

Lizzo is awesome. I once got an erection watching one of her videos! Is that normal?

No-one here perhaps. Yet. But the problem is that over in the real world these two things are inextricably intertwined. Ie, just because you may believe you have separated them doesn’t mean that everyone else has.

You need to be very very careful when throwing around words like “normal” with gay abandon, that’s how we get to Othering. Telling someone overweight that their weight may be affecting their health is one thing, telling them they are abnormal is quite another.

I get that, but in this case I use the word normal as it's the same word used in the article.

I was thinking more generally, as with smoking.

Is smoking stigmatised? When did you last see a smoker being yelled at by passers-by for smoking?

It's controlled, for what are now fairly obvious reasons, not least of which is to minimise the health risks to others. But if someone were to light up a cigarette at a table outside a pub, no-one would bat an eyelid. Now swap that for a fat lass ordering pizza.

The story has nothing really to do with normalizing obesity, Lizzo is just unhappy that people who are not obese but saw a bandwagon and jumped all over it are using something to get themselves in the spotlight.

Fair play to Lizzo, there's far too much "expected" of women (and men) to look a certain way or to be a certain build, but too many folks just assume that if you're fat you must be lazy and worthless. You don't know what's going on in someone's life, for all you know they might have already lost weight or been through something traumatic and they put weight on.

Is it really that bad to say "be positive" or is that only for thin people? The worlds shit enough as it is, let's try and focus on some positive for a change

I get that,

Then what's your point? Because you said literally the opposite in your OP:

"I’m also not going to pretend its a good or normal thing."

You're not going to pretend it's normal but you agree with me that it's wrong to tell them they're abnormal? Have we just flipped a coin and called "edge"?

Lizzo is just unhappy that people who are not obese but saw a bandwagon and jumped all over it

It came across to me that she was complaining that it was being appropriated by girls who weren't overweight enough to be allowed to be "body positive." Like, "girl, you ain't fat, this is fat!"

Kind of a weird stance really. I may well have misunderstood it though.

Then what’s your point? Because you said literally the opposite in your OP:

“I’m also not going to pretend its a good or normal thing.”

You’re not going to pretend it’s normal but you agree with me that it’s wrong to tell them they’re abnormal? Have we just flipped a coin and called “edge”?

Ok, I am not saying obese people are abnormal. In the article Lizzo says "being fat is normal". I take that to mean "it's ok to be fat". This is where I have an issue. It's not "OK" it's a serious health issue.

Ok, I am not saying obese people are abnormal. In the article Lizzo says “being fat is normal”. I take that to mean “it’s ok to be fat”. This is where I have an issue. It’s not “OK” it’s a serious health issue.

Maybe it's more about "work with what you have" - I think the majority of overweight people know they're overweight, I know I am, and know that losing weight will make them healthier. Shouting "IT'S A SERIOUS HEALTH ISSUE" over what Lizzo is trying to do is missing the point by a country mile. She's just trying to make people feel better about themselves. Teenagers especially are fed the belief that "normal" is whatever bodyshape is in fashion and they're smashed in the face every day with tik-toks and instagrams of these big titted models in bathing suits on some beach somewhere living their "best life" and being told "if you're not like this, this week, then you're shit, and nobody will love you"

Unfortunately, it's not ok to be overweight, not only because of the health issues, but because it's the go to option to shame someone and attack them based on what they look like and base their entire worth around what they look like and all the expectations based on just that.

There are plenty of thin people that drink their bodyweight in wine a week and don't think there's any harm in it nor is it unhealthy because someone once said "a glass of red is good for your heart" but they might be bordering on liver disease.

I think we've just encountered the middle of this conversation.

She’s just trying to make people feel better about themselves.

Is she though?

It rather read to me like she was trying to make some people feel better about themselves by excluding those who aren't stick thin but aren't obese either. The girls who cry themselves to sleep because they're a size 14 rather than a size 12, or a size 12 rather than a size 8, and everyone's calling them names and telling them they're not good enough. According to Lizzo they're not allowed to be "body positive" and feel better about themselves because they're obviously just jumping on a bandwagon rather than, y'know, clinically depressed or something.

Her message didn't come across as particularly positive to me. Came across as a bit TERFy if I'm honest. Plump-Exclusionary Radical Morbidly Obese?

Feeling good about yourself shouldn't be something you'd object to going mainstream, it should be a basic human right. I might be totally missing the point here and I'm open to being schooled accordingly but like I said, I found the whole thing a bit weird.

The girls who cry themselves to sleep because they’re a size 14 rather than a size 12, or a size 12 rather than a size 8, and everyone’s calling them names and telling them they’re not good enough. According to Lizzo they’re not allowed to be “body positive” and feel better about themselves because they’re obviously just jumping on a bandwagon rather than, y’know, clinically depressed or something.

agreed, I was thinking similar while reading the article, like she wanted there to be a minimum weight/size for people to meet before they were allowed to be "body positive"

and then she actually did.

...You know, girls who are in the 18-plus club.

Seems like quite a negative message overall to me. Excluding people who she doesn't feel make the grade enough to be "body positive"

Yeah, kind of (edit-aimed at Cougar’s post). To me she’s saying she doesn’t want it to just be a trendy movement that doesn’t make any difference. She wants the message to retain it’s edge. At the end of the day, it’s just one woman’s opinion and it’s a pretty confused message.

I suspect that she means that in the commercialisation of "body positive" ie advertising, they are using what would traditionally be referred to as glamour models, rather than the catwalk models and selling that as a real life scenario.

Which I think most people would realise is replacing emaciated stick insects, with actually beautiful women and pretending that is a normally achievable standard for everyday life.

When I see the legs of catwalk models and quite a lot of actresses, it is just bone with a knee protruding in the middle, no sign of muscle above or below, I think that is really unhealthy.

I think it’s fair to say none of us have a ****ing clue what she actually meant.

I'd be amazed is most obese people ever achieve body positivity, I suspect most of them are stuck in a self loathing / comfort eating cycle, which they'll probably never break out of.

Thats what the thread needed: some proper positivity. 😊

I don't even know who she is (or in fact care) - This is up there with the Asian wedding crap that was on the BBC today.

normally achievable standard

Good god I hate that phrase, do you not realise that bodyshape really isn't a choice or option for a lot of people, I have two step daughters* they are like chalk and cheese absolute polar opposites in bodyshape, no amount of exercise and dieting for one or lazing around eating pizza all day for the other would result in either of them having a "normally achievable standard" I just wish they could both be happy with what they've got.
* 19yo & 27yo with different fathers

I don’t even know who she is (or in fact care)

You’re missing out. As i said previously, she is awesome. ❤️

I’d argue that what the world needs now is lots of “everything positivity”

Sex positivity
Sexuality positivity
Gender positivity
Gender expression positivity
Body positivity
Every other type of physicality positivity
And so on

When someone comes in with (well meaning) yeah but excess weight is correlated with reduced life expectancy it allows all the other intolerant people to come in with yeah but genes, yeah but lifestyle, yeah but the children.

Don’t give them the chance

Everything positivity

then what are we going to do?

Thank god we still have vegans, hey?

And Gingers! (Disclaimer my daughter’s a ginger)

I blame it on her juice!

Promote smoking to reduce obesity, piece of cake.

Thank god we still have vegans, hey?

And Gingers!

Don't forget Brexiters.

Oh and...

Lizzo is awesome. I once got an erection watching one of her videos! Is that normal?

Goes off to watch her YouTube vids.

...... I guess everyone has their kink, but not my kind of thing. Never even heard of her before this thread.

What I don't understand is how someone gets that fat. It's not like it happens overnight.

I know a few fat people and none of them are particularly happy about it. One good mate shed the fat by making a conscience effort to move more and eat less. He's a lot happier now and I've masses of respect for him.

To those saying being fat isn't anyone elses problem...
My mum was fat, as are most of her sisters. Type 2 diabetes, statins, ****ed knees (some genuinely believe that diabetes runs in the family and has nothing to do with being fat, lazy and eating too much). Leads to a great quality of life for their partners.
In some cases the kids are following as they almost see it as normal.

Also shit loads more work for the NHS dealing with all the fat people... Something skinny people's taxes pay for.

There is very little to be positive about when you can run, walk up a flight of stairs or fit into a cinema seat.

If I were to catch lung cancer through smoking it'd be my fault.
Being fat rarely gets laid at the feet of the person who is doing the eating and sitting around, but is seen as a societal issue.

It's a societal issue because obesity does have a significant impact. I'd suggest that modern society does in fact lay it at the feet of fat people every minute of every day. Completely the opposite of drink/drug abuse, also a societal issue. IMO body positivity is a good message as it can help people build self confidence, allowing them to make different choices.

speccyguy

I’d argue that what the world needs now is lots of “everything positivity”

Good post that.
I might try “forum positivity” ... maybe for a little while.

...everyone has their kink

Indeed. Women are a ‘kink’ to some, eh. Always been the normal thing for me though.

What I don’t understand is how someone gets that fat. It’s not like it happens overnight.

Any number of reasons. Depression; injury meaning someone can't exercise; side-effects of other illnesses or medications (PCOS for example is notorious for weight gain); comfort eating (one of my exes thought she was fat - she wasn't - she'd get all miserable about it and then would cheer herself up by eating a half-kilo slab of Dairy Milk); genetics; quitting smoking and subconsciously replacing cigarettes with Mars bars; mental disorders where people want to be as huge as possible; and, yes, simply being a lazy greedy bastard. And it's probably precisely because it "doesn't happen overnight" that there's no one clearly defined point where someone goes from "a few excess pounds" to being a right fat knacker.

The bugger of it is though, the bigger you are the harder it becomes to reverse it. Changing your diet requires a lifestyle change which few people are prepared to genuinely commit to, hence the popularity of fad diets and "quick fix" solutions which rarely work. Also, it's harder to exercise, it's all well and good going "move more" but if you're struggling to get out of the chair you're not going to be doing the London Marathon next week.

And then we're back to how shaming doesn't help. When overweight people try and do something about it, society snaps straight back at them. Say they get themselves off to the swimming pool - one of the few exercises that isn't going to destroy their knees - how long do you reckon it'll take someone to make a "witty" comment about beached whales?

"What I don’t understand is how someone gets that fat. It’s not like it happens overnight."

"Any number of reasons. Depression; injury meaning someone can’t exercise; side-effects of other illnesses or medications (PCOS for example is notorious for weight gain)"

Thank you for this. See Lipoedema. This has a hell of a lot of stigma attached and lots of assumptions. Yes there are those that are also carrying extra 'normal' weight but there are some of us that are not...

Yes, I'm taking this opportunity to raise awareness of the illness, yes it's real and yes, I am very self conscious as are many

Edit: sorry I can't quote for some reason - likely user ineptitude 😁

It seems to me that there is a certain amount of over compensation going on. Having Kate Moss at her skinniest as a role model was rightly derided as a bad thing. Instead of dialing in the 'sweet spot' of allure to something truly healthy and sustainable the pendulum has rather swung too far and it's all good is the trope de jour.

That being said most of that article makes her views a bit unclear. "No, being fat is normal. I think now, I owe it to the people who started this to not just stop here. We have to make people uncomfortable again, so that we can continue to change. Change is always uncomfortable, right?" Sadly being fat is now normal in the west - she is right. She's miffed that other people not as fat as her want to be labelled as fat too? If being fat is part of your professional identity can you have a personal desire to do something about it?

I've got a few friends who have got a little skinnier recently - they look thin for 50 year old. Still very toned for their age, just a minimal but healthy body fat level. They look odd to me. it's very much like my eyes have become so conditioned to the average western raised BMI 'look' that someone bucking the trend appears out of kilter.

Sadly being fat is now normal in the west

At the risk of repeating myself,

Are you suggesting instead that we should be labelling overweight people as abnormal? Do you think that will help them?

It's possible to destigmatise something without the only alternative being to promote it as a desirable ideal.

Are you suggesting instead that we should be labelling overweight people as abnormal? Do you think that will help them?

Depends what you mean as normal/abnormal. If you are fat and walked into the street and looked left and right you would see a dozen people who would confirm you are perfectly normal. It is now normal to be fat.

But.....’unhealthy’ or ‘unnecessarily unhealthy’ - yes, absolutely. That was me 18 months ago. Ok, not morbid but definitely clinically obese. Looking about it is very easy to see confirmation that you are normal. So a reminder that you are unhealthy at a raised weight has never been as necessary. And....without turning this into another Covid debate - there has probably never been a time in history when being pushed into some weight loss has such a positive effect on your life chances.

They look odd to me. it’s very much like my eyes have become so conditioned to the average western raised BMI ‘look’ that someone bucking the trend appears out of kilter.

That's nothing to do with "normality," what you're describing there is prejudice. Compare and contrast: "it’s very much like my eyes have become so conditioned to the average brown ‘look’ that someone white appears out of kilter."

And yeah, I know that's a bit of a cheeky analogy. But as I said earlier you need to be careful when you're throwing around words like "normal," it's an inherently loaded stance. "You, you're not 'normal,' you're 'other,' can't you see there's something wrong with you?"

Depends what you mean as normal/abnormal.

Doesn't matter what I mean, I'm not the one making the argument. What do you mean?

If you're saying "not normal" when you mean "unhealthy," say "unhealthy" instead. It's clearer and less passive-aggressive.

What do you mean?

My view and your view is irrelevant. It is factually accurate to say being fat is normal. Millions and millions of people are in the UK alone.

She’s miffed that other people not as fat as her want to be labelled as fat too?

No, think she's upset because it was supposed to be an inclusive idea, that people of all shapes could be represented in a positive light. So that people might look around them and not feel alienated from everyone else because of their looks. And that message has been watered down.

It is factually accurate to say being fat is normal.

Yes, it is. As is being skinny. Or as someone else pointed out previously, ginger. And?

Do you think this is a new phenomenon? "Bringing booty back" may be a fashion backlash but it's no less unhealthy than girls starving themselves to death because they aren't superwaifs. These things ebb and flow, go look at some Rubens art. What's needed is for people to be encouraged to accept that, on the whole, they're OK how they are and for those on the more at-risk ends of the scale that aren't OK we can offer some encouragement.

think she’s upset because it was supposed to be an inclusive idea, that people of all shapes could be represented in a positive light.

She's saying exactly the opposite. She's complaining about people including themselves who to her mind don't qualify.

Body positivity calls for the acceptance of all shapes and sizes.

"It's commercialised," the Truth Hurts star said. "Now, you look at the hashtag 'body positive' and you see smaller-framed girls, curvier girls."

She went on: "Lotta white girls. And I feel no ways about that, because inclusivity is what my message is always about.

From the article Cougar, she seems ok about others claiming Body positivity, just that it doesnt include the wider range of shapes that it should.

One of us is misunderstanding that quote. Reads to me like she's complaining about "smaller-framed girls" wanting to be included in the Body Positive message.

Not really seeing what skin colour has to do with being body positive either TBH, seems a bit "I'm not racist but..."

Somoenes size/weight, and the healthiness thereof, is between them and their doctor.

This can also be true and it still not be good or considered or normal to be obese.

If you had lung cancer through smoking it would be between you and your doctor. Don't tell me we should be body positive about your black lungs.

Overeating to the point of morbid obesity is an active abuse of one's body in the same way.

I'm not commenting but then I'm certainly not celebrating someone being happy and body positive when they are causing themselves harm.

My view and your view is irrelevant. It is factually accurate to say being fat is normal.

I kind see what you’re trying to say but it’s not coming across well, nice to know I’m abnormal for being skinny.

So this topic is a bit like being handed a land mine.... eek...

I guess, from a health care professional POV, one of the issues I face is getting people to accept change kinda is required.
Accepting change needs to be made is one of the first steps TOWARDS making change. And of course, if someone is overweight, really they SHOULD (if they can) make change towards a healthier weight.

I 'do get' what's being said about "being overweight is the new norm", and this does make the notion of the NEED to change difficult to get across. Because, if "everyone is big, I'm not an odd one out, hence don't need to change" is an attitude that some do adopt.

And again, I reiterate that the 'need to changed' is based on the notion that being overweight isn't healthy and does carry additional risks and complications.
Just like smoking too much does, or drinking too much.

Ultimately, the paths that lead to obesity are complicated and very difficult to unpick... and OF COURSE calling someone a "big fat fatty" is likely to be met with a significantly different attitude than suggesting "their weight is above a healthy range" when trying to talk about ways to become more healthy...

I guess I'm digressing, and possibly the OPs topic is more about "do we just accept people for who and how they are, regardless on how unhealthy that actually may well be".
Well; Yes.. we should of course accept them for them. But perhaps we shouldn't ignore the health complications associated as well...

DrP

BMI shouldn't be used on individuals, only on populations. People are different builds and distribute fat in different ways. An unhealthy BMI for one person can be absolutely fine for another - despite the oversimplified approach taken in western (white!) medicine.

I couldn't give a **** either way about somebody's weight so long as I'm not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight, both to them personally and to society on a wider scale.

I lived in East Asia for a bit. It used to appall me when I did a home run. I remember on one occasion, boarding a plane and being placed within a bunch of teenagers from the NE heading out to China on an exchange trip. Really nice kids, pleasant and polite to interact with, clearly cared about their appearance in that they were clean, well dressed, nice haircuts, ALL of 'em with braces on their teeth....and every one overweight: great big muffin tops, double chins, fat necks, bingo wings. They just didn't see it, it was normalised for them.

so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight, both to them personally and to society on a wider scale.

Just so we’re clear what other conditions, habits or interests does this cover?

ALL of ’em with braces on their teeth….and every one overweight: great big muffin tops, double chins, fat necks, bingo wings. They just didn’t see it, it was normalised for them.

That makes no sense.

BMI shouldn’t be used on individuals, only on populations. People are different builds and distribute fat in different ways. An unhealthy BMI for one person can be absolutely fine for another – despite the oversimplified approach taken in western (white!) medicine.

This is true but it's overstated IMO. Most people who fall outside of (choose a number of SDs in) the bell curve are there because they're an unhealthy weight on an individual level, NOT because they're a secret powerlifter / Grand Tour winning skinny runt.

Besides, using the 'population' argument is like saying that smoking isn't bad for you unless you're one of the unlucky ones who develop cancer / COPD. There are plenty of smokers who never develop complications and live to a ripe old age. But we don't promote smoking because we're aware of the effects on populations.

I guess I’m digressing, and possibly the OPs topic is more about “do we just accept people for who and how they are, regardless on how unhealthy that actually may well be”.
Well; Yes.. we should of course accept them for them. But perhaps we shouldn’t ignore the health complications associated as well

Bang on.

Thank god we still have vegans, hey?

and Gingers, don't forget the Gingers.

It's quite clear what I'm saying, Drac, are you being deliberately obtuse to gather STW brownie points? And it makes complete sense - we've normalised being obese in the West, people who otherwise care about their appearance don't see it (and the associated health issues). Back to the OP...

I couldn’t give a * either way about somebody’s weight so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight, both to them personally and to society on a wider scale.

"I couldn’t give a * either way about somebody riding a mountain bike so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects from their crashes..."

This is how a functioning society works, individuals don't get to dictate that their taxation only goes towards services that they, personally, require. You might as well argue against funding the fire service because you've never had a fire.

Bang on.

Agreed. Accept people for who they are, allow them to feel good about who they are, gives you more chance of helping them get to be better?

I’m not commenting but then I’m certainly not celebrating someone being happy and body positive when they are causing themselves harm.

See, I don't get this attitude at all! Someone who is fat shouldn't be happy, shouldn't feel positive about who they are? Seems very wrong to me. Remarkably similar to what used to happen in education, where students with dyslexia were told they were idiots, would never amount to anything and packed off to remedial school with no hope of improvement.