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Like last year I'm dropping to race weight, having lost 7lbs since Christmas Day. But I've only lost 1.3% fat according to my scales, currently registering at 18.2% from 19.4%
They aren't expensive scales (salter) so take it with a pinch of salt, but why aren't I losing more fat, although my FTP is rising - and how to I get it down to <15% without losing muscle mass?
Exercise regime is 2 or 3 X TraineroadTurbo, 1 X 60 to 100k club ride PW
Generally Diet = weight and exercise = fitness
Might be worth scrutinising what you shovel down the hatch..
Its usually sugar and its hidden derivatives that our bodies likes to hang neatly round our middles..
Muscle mass doesn't necessarily seem like a good thing for a cyclist. No good being a muscle monster at the foot of a mahoosive climb. Power to weight ratio?
It's not fat, it's a juicy tapeworm.
Not good pie pie monster, currently at 3.26w/kg.
I should add I'm 6ft at that weight and have an mtb/classics build rather than whippet/climber
As said look at your diet. Bigger changes come there than exercise.
Losing a little muscle mass is OK, depending on if your purely bike focussed or not.
I'm am bike focussed.
I'm using mfp, not touched alcohol since nye and won't until March. I generally don't eat rubbish with the exception of 1 packet of crisps for lunch, so it's the usually mix of wholemeal content, veg, no junk food or sweets/cakes. It's the body fat thing, I don't get why it hasn't tumbled. Food is low fat where it can be.
This may sound odd, but are you eating enough? As in your not restricting calories as well as exercising are you?
Not sure what the trainer road stuff is like, reasonably high intensity? A good bit of HIIT helps imo
It's the body fat thing, I don't get why it hasn't tumbled.
Exercise regime is 2 or 3 X TraineroadTurbo, 1 X 60 to 100k club ride PW
thats not much exercise to be fair, especially if the turbo sessions are low intensity or only an hour long, and if your job is sedentary
so on a bad week your doing 2hrs on the turbo and barely a 2hr club run, its not a great deal,
a quick look back at my own data at when i was at my fittest (although still not "thin" due to poor diet/alcohol) i was doing at least 8 hours a week, usuallyy more, some weeks double, mixing road and mtb - lots of intervals in there chasing KOMs on Strava
quite depressing though considering where I'm at physically and mentally at the moment
Wow, how have you lost that much weight this month? Im fairly fit but too heavy due to drinking and eating too much. Since NYE i have stopped drinking ( that means ive lost the calories from 2-3 bottles of wine and 6 pints of beer a week). I have upped my running to 5hr a week at anaerobic threshold and 1x2hr mtb ride per week. I have religiously used a calorie counter to stay at 1650cals ( plus half what my Garmin says i have expended in exercise). In the past 24 days i have lost one pound.....
If I change the mode of the scales to 'athlete' I apparently lose loads of fat 🙂
The scales work by checking the electrical impedance from one leg to another. If you've gained or lost a bit of a gut, then it won't affect the readings as much as if you've gained or lost cankles.
Don't trust the scales...when I've used (expensive) devices at the gym they've been very inconsistent!
Don't rule out doing some weight lifting/toning exercises, some of the best ways to burn fat. Dead lifts/Squats/Benchpress/ Pull Ups etc if no gym/equiptment you can still do bodyweight squats/push ups/ pull ups/dips etc often at home. Lower weight high reps,
But as said it's not all about calories it's about where they come from, eat clean throw in some bodyweight exercises on top of the training and you'll see the benefits.
Food is low fat where it can be
Are you buying low fat versions of foods? They're often rammed with sugars.
Excess (crap) carb consumption is way worse than excess fat consumption.
Im cutting weight for the race season. Using MFP to keep track of everything. My weekly diet is 10% below my recommended carb intake, 10% over my fat target and bang on my protein. Down 10lbs in 3 weeks and body fat down by 8%. My fats come mainly from avocado and olive or coconut oil. Nothing processed at all. All fresh ingredients. Nothing packaged or pre-prepared.
"Low fat" is one of the worst food labels ever
If you're 18% then you aren't at your racing weight!
dirtyrider - Member
It's the body fat thing, I don't get why it hasn't tumbled.
Exercise regime is 2 or 3 X TraineroadTurbo, 1 X 60 to 100k club ride PW
thats not much exercise to be fair, especially if the turbo sessions are low intensity or only an hour long, and if your job is sedentary
so on a bad week your doing 2hrs on the turbo and barely a 2hr club run, its not a great deal,
a quick look back at my own data at when i was at my fittest (although still not "thin" due to poor diet/alcohol) i was doing at least 8 hours a week, usuallyy more, some weeks double, mixing road and mtb - lots of intervals in there chasing KOMs on Strava
quite depressing though considering where I'm at physically and mentally at the moment
It's not how much you train for hours to lose weight, it is about what you do if you want to lose fat and your dietary intake.
I trained 3 times a week for 30 minutes each or less and lost 30 kg in 3 and half months. Also increased my fitness but fat loss was my goal.
Applied a lot of science and it has worked on everyone I've trained including myself but I'm a sugarholic 😆
Indeed mol grips.
Bib - what I mean by that is in aware of the low fat vs sugar issue. So I'll eat baked rather than fried crisps, but I'll have 50% olive oil butter on toast, or with poached eggs no butter at all. So watching out for hidden fats and yes sugary replacement crap.
All by turbos are HIIT, but with the day on day off recommendation it's hard to get more time in than 4 sessions 6-8hrs a week with the family/work.
No offence but if you had 30kg to lose you were Overweight - someone at 75/80kg won't be able to lose that much weight, and as you probably know it's the last few kg which are the hardest to shift
"Low fat" is one of the worst food labels ever
Amen.
I'll add "sugar free". Just put the bloody sugar in and be honest about it you immoral bastards!
You're probably better off using a tape measure and a mirror to see if you're losing fat, rather than bathroom scales. Keep a record of your waist measurement, and put a mirror somewhere you can see yourself when you're getting dressed.
I do that. I'm not bemoaning the loss to date, just wondering why my body fat appears to be high. Perhaps now most of the bulk has gone I'll start eating into it. Trousers are looser!
If you want to measure body fat properly then us a pair of body fat calliper and this: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how-to-measure-your-body-fat.html
The callipers are only a couple of quid and it only takes a few minutes to take the measurements. At least it will be more accurate then.
Withhold your puddings.
Bib - what I mean by that is in aware of the low fat vs sugar issue. So I'll eat baked rather than fried [b]crisps[/b], but I'll have 50% olive oil butter on [b]toast[/b], or with poached eggs no butter at all. So watching out for hidden fats and yes sugary replacement crap.
Crisps, baked or otherwise, are junk unfortunately. I miss crisps so much. Not good for weight or fat loss at all
Same goes for toast. Toast plus a mix of olive oil and butter ( 😯 ) is a horrifically calorie dense mix that would do nothing to satisfy your appetite. 2 slices of toast plus oil and butter could amount to almost 500 calories of worthless food.
If you're not already, start using my fitness pal and log EVERYTHING you eat. It's an eye opener about how,unbelievably easy it is to overeat
The body fat part of scales is utter tosh Kryton - same as the BMI measurement.
Even after leaving hospital late last year at 83kgs calipers had me at 21% yet BMI was over 32!
Scales had me at 30+%.
Issue is that as said - they work by measuring the resistance.
Get out of the shower and its lower.
Walk in from the bedroom and its higher.
Its especially pertinent when it then adds your height and weight into the mix.
At 5'7" I'm supposed to be under 68kgs on the BMI - I'm currently 76 and the Doc has never been happier!
However it says I'm obese at a BMI of 36 and a supposed % of 34 right now.
Check up the week before last and again calipers had me at 18% even with the love handles from not being able to get out and about the way I want to.
Get a nice tailors tape and use that along with how the clothes fit.
I wouldn't bother with the scales.
Bob I am doing that, literally everything. If there's doubt, for example a generic soup, I pick the one with highest cals from mfp
You have a packet of crisps every day! Not that you should be a martyr, but you know, crisps every day 🙂
Indeed mol grips.
It's quite possible that your scales are talking complete bobbins. The only sensible way to measure body fat in the home is to use calipers. You can get them for about £3 on Amazon - they are only plastic things but they do work just as well as expenisve ones. You then use calculators online.
The scales aren't worth anything really.
Same goes for toast. Toast plus a mix of olive oil and butter ( ) is a horrifically calorie dense mix that would do nothing to satisfy your appetite.
Disagree. Appetite is driven by loads of things - if he can make toast work for him then fine. If toast leaves him feeling hungry for more, then no.
Complex and personal issue this.
On annon training dayi have two slices of toast with marmite a 7am, a cereal bar at 10, soup plus 2 slices of whole meal bread for lunch. On a training days it's 2 poached eggs on no buttered toast then that's it until a soy protein shake plus the soup lunch after the turbo at 12:30 approx. So it's not as though I'm stuffing myself, the toast - always whole meal - suffices. Sometimes swapped with a measured amount of plain porridge oats in semi skimmed milk.
It sounds like you're very successfully losing weight so far OP. The only problem you have is that you're believing the totally rubbish BMI/body fat reading on the scales.
Up your caffeine intake.
Take a bit of carbs during (not before) riding.
Both [b]may [/b]help fat burn
Are you making the soup or buying it? Bought soup isn't good. Cereal bars ain't good either. I moved from cereal bar to malt loaf and lost weight.
What time do you eat at night?
Nutritional Ketosis is your answer.
Is it one of those scales that estimates body fat through your conductivity? If so I wouldn't put much store in the readings.
If you know where your body keeps fat (hips for me) measure that with a tape measure.
Up my caffeine intake? I drink loads of coffee already. Main meal is at 5-6. I may top up with up with a snack - nuts or fruit with water after the kids are in bed if I feel Hungary and if mfp says I've got cals left, but not after 8pm. Except if my turbo session happens at 8pm, then it's the soy protein shake straight after.
I'll ignore the scales 'cept weight.
On annon training dayi have two slices of toast with marmite a 7am, a cereal bar at 10, soup plus 2 slices of whole meal bread for lunch. On a training days it's 2 poached eggs on no buttered toast then that's it until a soy protein shake plus the soup lunch after the turbo
That's a lot of bread you're shovelling in.
I seem to remember Chris Froome's pre season diet last year banned wheat, bread , pasta etc in favour of rice as the main carb, and lots of full fat omelettes...
possibly with bacon.
Love all the diet advice on here.
I eat cake almost every day and my BMI is 20 so you should do what I do.
(Or, you know, carry on as you were, which is clearly working!)
Well I would point out that not every day is soup and bread day. Mrs K is West Indian so there's plenty of rice and chicken in my diet.
I shall carry on and ignore the scales!
But I've only lost 1.3% fat according to my scales,
Which have no way of actually measuring Body Fat, so it's just a complete guess....
Get the callipers out.
Kryton57 - Member
Well I would point out that not every day is soup and bread day. Mrs K is West Indian so there's plenty of rice and chicken in my diet.I shall carry on and ignore the scales!
Rice and chicken! Are you mad? What about the arsenic and the campylobacter?
You can't just eat stuff you know!
Matt
then it's the soy protein shake straight after.
What are you getting from this that 'real' food won't give you?
27g of protien for 110 calls vs 25g & 260 cals per 100g of chicken. And convenience.
Why dyou need so much protein?
Get some eggs down yer!
Protein shake - check the numbers on skimmed milk
[I]Kryton57 - Member
but why aren't I losing more fat
[/I]
First, grass hopper, you must understand how and why the body stores fat. Only then, grass hopper, will you understand what you must do to achieve your goals 😉
[I]miketually - Member
You're probably better off using a tape measure and a mirror to see if you're losing fat. [/I]
Fair advise. Mike has a good handle on this, imo.
🙂
[I]Kryton57 - Member
I do that. I'm not bemoaning the loss to date, just wondering why my body fat appears to be high.
[/I]
I refer you to my first remark 🙂
[I]molgrips - Member
It's quite possible that your scales are talking complete bobbins.[/I]
I think we can take it, those scales are [b]definitely[/b] reporting in bobbins. 😆
[I]suburbanreuben - Member
On a non training day I have two slices of toast with marmite a 7am, a cereal bar at 10, soup plus 2 slices of whole meal bread for lunch.
On a training days it's 2 poached eggs on no buttered toast then that's it until a soy protein shake plus the soup lunch after the turbo
That's a lot of bread you're shovelling in.[/I]
Most definitely!
Have you tried the US Navy Method? Supposed to be accurate within 3% for most people - generally works well for me.
[url= http://http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy ]http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy[/url]
Ive had the aim of upping me power to weight this year. Since New Years I've been on the Harcombe diet whereby you don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal. This has been particularly hard for me as I'm a sugar and carb junkie, but I've managed to stick to it pretty religiously since I started.
Jan 1st I was 14st 1lb and 24%. As of this norning 13st 4lb and 20%. Aiming for 13st.
This diet works for me as its not about calorie counting and as long as you stick to the rules you can eat the bulk. Just have to be mindful on riding days to eat enough carb - first couple of rides I bonked!
Perhaps you are Sleep eating ?
Ride bike more to compensate. 🙂
That's a lot of bread you're shovelling in.
Most definitely!
Sorry, I missed the health warning, what's wrong with bread?
What worked for me was ignoring calorie counting (Which i just don't think is unsustainable). I then cut out lots of foods with lots of carbs in : bread, rice pasta etc.
Essentially I tried to cut out foods that spiked my insulin levels - the hormone that deals with fat storage and blocks cells from releasing fat for energy.
I also cut out fruit. This worked along with about 5-6 hours of riding/training a week.Oh.. and i ate loads of eggs. Particularly for breakfast
You are iDave aicmfp
Some of you have been reading to much media bs about sugars. Sugars don't make you fat, fat makes you fat. Fat is so good at making you fat the only way to stop it is to stop eating the best nutrient (sugar) and put your body into ketosis (starvation) mess up your adrenal glands and destroy your kidneys. The process that converts sugar into glycogen and then glycogen into fat is so inefficient it not worth worrying about. Excess sugar or carbs with excess fat will make you fat. I've lost a stone this week, from 13 down to 12 and I'll go down to 11 stone in the next 2 weeks. I did the same last year and it worked perfect after years of messing around with keto diets eat. Eat clean fat free carbs with lean meats and watch it fall off.
Typically I eat a bowl of oats in the morning with 2 table spoons of sugar and honey with a bowl of scrabbled eggs. Dinner salmon and salad and evening rice and chicken or sweet potatoes chicken and veg.
Do you actually enjoy cycling Kryton? From the cat4 thread, the trainerroad thread and now this it doesn't sound like there is much fun involved...
That's a lot of bread you're shovelling in.
Most definitely!
It's four slices! Four!
I'm very analytical jam bo. I do yes, but I like to worry about everything as well. I expect my version of being joyous about something is far from the atypical image of the laughing policeman. I only very occasionally post about good stuff that happens, so you have a one sided impression.
Anyway I bought some fat calipers today, they are in the post.
My mantra (thanks Dad) is "it's what you do every day" that counts. That counts for exercise and food.
So, 4 slices of bread a day is 120 slices a month.
1 packet of crisps a day is 30 bags of crisps since Christmas.
..etc. 🙂
You need the B vitamins in Berocca or a genetic substitute to "help you metabolise your energy stores"
I'm 4 bottles of gin to the good though... 😀
tallie » http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy
From the comments section of the above link...
[i][b]tongueman[/b] - the tongue is the strongest muscle. How do you know im not one big tongue man?! how many people did they dissect to think they know this.odd[/i]
🙂
Bleedin' weirdo
Also, what's with the 6ft thing, Kryts? You gotta share your secret for such accelerated growth...
😉
I put it down to the 1/4" heel on my Christmas Slippers Teasel.
Train more eat better.
Whats race weight anyway?
I used to carry about 3 or 4 kilos of extra weight during the winter and shift it in about 2 or 3 weeks by stepping the training up a bit (an extra 3 or 4 hours a week isn't actually that much if you are on the bike once or twice most days.) also cutting portions by 10% makes a surprising difference, as well as being honest about what you are eating. I have a terrible sweet tooth, and training was the only thing that stopped me being fat. Now i can't train. I'm fat.
At start of December I weighed almost 83 kg now I am at just under 78kg, not sure what my body fat is but in the mirror I can clearly see a big difference. All I have done is 3 or 4 one hour turbo sessions a week using ctxc videos and then at least one 50 mile road ride or 25 mile mtb. I have cut out the crap like cake but stiil enjoy a beer, personally for me its not about numbers its abou how I feel.
really interesting all this. Im trying (and failing) to loose a bit of flab.
Im curious about the bread thing. Is it bad for you? i thought brown bread with honey or real butter was good for you (no seriously)
Whats considered a 'good' body fat percentage, having a skin fold test done tomorrow at work. As the elties seem to be on 4% I'm guessing less than 12% would be reasonable for an amateur with limited time?
I'm guessing less than 12% would be reasonable for an amateur with limited time?
12% is very decent.
4% isn't sustainable for most people and requires a commitment well beyond normal.
When I used to race, training 16 hours a week, I was about 16% (calliper test) IIRC.
Some of you have been reading to much media bs about sugars. Sugars don't make you fat, fat makes you fat. Fat is so good at making you fat the only way to stop it is to stop eating the best nutrient (sugar) and put your body into ketosis (starvation) mess up your adrenal glands and destroy your kidneys. The process that converts sugar into glycogen and then glycogen into fat is so inefficient it not worth worrying about. Excess sugar or carbs with excess fat will make you fat. I've lost a stone this week, from 13 down to 12 and I'll go down to 11 stone in the next 2 weeks. I did the same last year and it worked perfect after years of messing around with keto diets eat. Eat clean fat free carbs with lean meats and watch it fall off.
Typically I eat a bowl of oats in the morning with 2 table spoons of sugar and honey with a bowl of scrabbled eggs. Dinner salmon and salad and evening rice and chicken or sweet potatoes chicken and veg.
You've said it yourself. Eat clean. The problem isn't necessarily with carbs, but with massively processed or hidden carbs. Convenience foods and snacks that are calorie dense but nutrient and volume poor.
The daily food you listed is very clean. It's when folk ram cereal bars etc full of high fructose corn syrup etc down their throats. You consume a massive amount of excess calories, in the form of carbs and weight gain ensues.
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so cereal bars now? again i thought these were a healthy snack?
deliberate selective quote
The process that converts sugar into glycogen and then glycogen into fat is so inefficient it not worth worrying about.
the visual evidence to the contrary these days is overwhelming.
so cereal bars now? again i thought these were a healthy snack?
Loads of sugar - I take them with me on long runs/rides, ideal for an energy boost. They're slightly better than a Mars Bar, but not particularly healthy.
andybrad - Memberso cereal bars now? again i thought these were a healthy snack?
Yeah I have to say i ahve a 'healthy' cereal bar every day (9 bar). What should I change my mid morning snack too?
Rarely have crisps (bar on a friday night), have switched to nuts and seeds if i need that kind of snack.
have gone from semi skimmed to 1% fat milk. Eat a lot of pasta and bread though! (sandwiches most days)
I've not sure what the OP is actually trying to achieve, but my thoughts are:
1) It really isn't that much exercise.
2) As it isn't much exercise all nutrition should come from normal food and water, throw away protein shakes, energy drinks etc.
3) Body fat scales are garbage - ignore.
4) You don't need huge amounts of fancy data to tell you when you are getting faster and/or lighter - a stopwatch, scales and mirror tells you 90% of the story.
Cereal bars are packed with sugar, they are better than a chocolate bar, but certainly not mega healthy.
Yeah I have to say i ahve a 'healthy' cereal bar every day (9 bar). What should I change my mid morning snack too?
Do you really need a mid-morning snack? I have breakfast at 6:30 and lunch around 13:30, and I don't usually eat anything between those meals. A bit of hunger won't kill you.
Yeah I have to say i ahve a 'healthy' cereal bar every day (9 bar). What should I change my mid morning snack too?
Nothing, unless you're overweight or struggling to lose weight. The key problem with them is the ability to consume a large amount of calories in a very small volume, which does little to satisfy your appetite. There are of course times when that's necessary, but mostly it's not. They can lead to overeating, not to mention the sugars rammed into them can lead to cravings etc. A cereal bar on its own is not necessarily bad (ignoring additives etc) but you need to view it as part of the bigger picture.
I've not sure what the OP is actually trying to achieve
I was wondering why my BF% appeared high / not to drop on the scales
1) It really isn't that much exercise.
Really? Have you ever done several hours of VO2 Max intervals on a turbo, plus I'll happily refer you to a guest ride with our club, they don't hang about so you'll find out how much exercise you are getting.
2) As it isn't much exercise all nutrition should come from normal food and water, throw away protein shakes, energy drinks etc.
I refer you to my earlier post, where its a lower cal supplement to recovery rather than a purchase to build muscle as is normally understood. To put the food back would be to eat more for the same protien content.
3) Body fat scales are garbage - ignore.
Yup, got that now.
4) You don't need huge amounts of fancy data to tell you when you are getting faster and/or lighter - a stopwatch, scales and mirror tells you 90% of the story.
Fair point.
Maybe you just aren't that fit?1) It really isn't that much exercise.Really? Have you ever done several hours of VO2 Max intervals on a turbo, plus I'll happily refer you to a guest ride with our club, they don't hang about so you'll find out how much exercise you are getting.
Might explain the struggle to crack 4th cat?
Yeah I've done the intervals on turbos and club run thing, my weight hardly changed, did get a lot fitter, enough to be regularly contesting for top 10's in 3/4 races and finishing in the bunch in E/1/2/3. But how many hours are you doing? ~5 hours a week?
I'm struggling with why you are using a protein shake, you either (1) feel your diet is protein deficient, doubt it if you eat a lot of chicken or (2) you are using it to replace a meal in which case you are unlikely to be getting a balanced diet.