[Closed] Body Building & Steroids

Least surprising story ever!

I just can’t see how you can get that musclely without drugs.

You can't, they're all on gear!

As are loads of not that big guys as well. It's supposed to be one of the most widely used illegal drugs.

I know one pro body builder and even jacked to the eyeballs and lifting insane weights, the really tough bit is the diet. He eats an absolutely obscene amount of very very bland food (like 7000 calories a day of low fat mince). He says tolerating the eating bit is the toughest bit and I can believe it. He is absolutely huge though and reps out 300kg deadlifts like they're going out of fashion...

Then when you get to the comp, it's all prescription diuretics (several different ones at the same time) and alcohol (just for good measure) and learning to time it all just right so you get maximum pump at the exact hour of the competition. They're basically a walking pharmacy on stage.

I went to a Dorian Yates seminar back in the early 90s, and he reckoned he'd made national top 3 clean, but needed drugs to push on beyond that. Pretty similar to the way Tyler Hamilton and David Millar explain their actions in cycling.

Yeah, pretty sure that level of freakery needs chemical assistance. I worked with a guy who competed in one of the natural bodybuilding federations, he was big but never freaky big. And paranoid about anyone contaminating his supplements due to the drug testing

Am I the only one that thinks his head has been photoshopped onto his body in those pics?

So if it is so much a part of it, why be so taboo about it? Purley cos the drugs themselves arent necessarily legal? Just seems odd. Do they have no drug testing regime? I guess they can't. Also imagine there isn't much crossover with mtb. Don't think you would be able to fit the bike between your legs!

Am I the only one that thinks his head has been photoshopped onto his body in those pics?

just had the exact same conversation

Haha! Definite Photoshop look to it.

Do they have no drug testing regime?

cycling/tennis/football/nfl etc all do, just don't answer the door when the testers come

see christian coleman recently or serena and the panic room

So if it is so much a part of it, why be so taboo about it?

From my limited understanding they do pretty much admit to it in that they have bodybuilding vs "natural" bodybuilding competitions.
With even the latter being somewhat dubious.

Haha! Definite Photoshop look to it.

The scumbags have superimposed his head on my body.

So if it is so much a part of it, why be so taboo about it?

Do they have no drug testing regime? I guess they can’t.

So how is it all judged? Doesn't appear to be on how much you can press so is it more like crufts? "Ooo... Doesn't he have a nice shiny coat..."

So how is it all judged? Doesn’t appear to be on how much you can press so is it more like crufts? “Ooo… Doesn’t he have a nice shiny coat…”

My understanding is that it's simply who looks the most ripped, with perfect symmetry. That's pretty much it.

Purely aesthetics.
Not unlike crufts which is morally dubious for the same reasons.

Purely aesthetics.

Yep, this.

It's not just about size, it's about proportions, symmetry, nice triangular upper back, no gaps, no long neck (needs to filled in with traps) etc etc.

Is todger shrinkage still an issue ?  🙂

that and the whole eyes bulging roid rage thing lol

Is todger shrinkage still an issue ?

Maybe that's why they always seem standoffish and angry lol

Is todger shrinkage still an issue ?

Testes rather than dodger. The huge doses of testosterone taken mean the body shuts down all natural production and can take a while to restart if you stop taking the drugs.

The main risk appears to be heart failure, as with all anti-inflammatories, they seem to increase the risk to heart problems only body builders take insanely high doses for years, so quite a few just drop dead in their 50s from heart failure.

The above seem a good reason to discourage trade in steroids.

a pro body builder told me once that no one can eat enough to keep more than three stone of muscle on, so beyond that it's roidys.

It's quite interesting the extent to which people will abuse their bodies for short term advantage. Are there huge financial rewards in body building that justify the risk?

Is there a legitimate use for these steroids?

On the USA MTBR forum several of the older riders (60s and 70s) are users and justify it on account of lower testosterone in old age. They claim it helps their riding and overall health - they are being prescribed it by their doctors though. (Don't think they compete)

So if it is so much a part of it, why be so taboo about it?

There is a multi billion pound industry based on selling supplements, magazines and workouts kind of riding on not openly admitting that the big guys are all on the juice. Not that dissimilar to cycling really.

On the USA MTBR forum several of the older riders (60s and 70s) are users and justify it on account of lower testosterone in old age. They claim it helps their riding and overall health – they are being prescribed it by their doctors though. (Don’t think they compete)

I have read many similar accounts, if you are getting prescribed by a doctor and regular blood tests, sticking to normal levels to just counter the effects of age, it is really meant to be very safe and very very worthwhile.

a pro body builder told me once that no one can eat enough to keep more than three stone of muscle on, so beyond that it’s roidys.

That's not how it works, to increase muscle mass you would still need to increase intake, steroids don't increase the efficiency of synthesising muscle from food.

Unfortunately testosterone is perhaps the least problematic substance abuse in gyms - it is easily available with and without prescriptions.
Growth hormones are big part substance abuse and can be more dangerous as most gym dudes get them really shady sources, the stuff is being made in garages from really dubious ingredients and some use them intravenously.

This older Outside article is still good read: https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test

If you can still get it Muscle by Sam Fussell (sp?) is a good tale about a guys descent from geeky nerd to fully ‘roided body builder.

https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/wada-2017-test-figures-part-1-bodybuilding-records-most-aafs/

Not subject to ukad testing. So used and tacitly allowed on a non-Olympic sport.

And the sport with the dirtiest reputation starts its World Cup on Friday. About 58% of sanctions in the UK are for Rugby.

As a regular competitor on the national and international stage, who has done well in bodybuilding, you are a disgrace to the sport

Not sure the judge got the "disgrace" bit right tbh 🙂

This still makes me laugh: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=4175375

I met a young lad a while back, he admitted using gear, having injections at the gym. When I asked him what he was using, be didn't know. W T A F ... I can't grasp that you'd be into the whole scene & let someone jab you without actually: 1) understanding the drugs 2) actually knowing what your using. Weird.

A guy I used to work with had been a Mr Olympia, (normal size when I knew him), he said it's a mental health illness. Even at his biggest & most lean he'd look in the mirror & see himself as fat.

And the sport with the dirtiest reputation starts its World Cup on Friday. About 58% of sanctions in the UK are for Rugby.

Yup, worked with a few guys that played 2nd tier rugby up here, they were constantly on it.

It’s quite interesting the extent to which people will abuse their bodies for short term advantage. Are there huge financial rewards in body building that justify the risk?

A bit of a polarised perspective if you think about it.
What are the financial rewards for DH or Freeride that justify the risk?

I'm an Rugby League player. I took steriods from a very early age. Probably from the age of 16 through to 22 I was a fairly regularly user. Only played amateur level (National Conference League). Lots of team mates and opponents also regular users. Later after having to stop playing due to injuries I was still doing powerlifting and taking steriods (prob from 32 to 36). I was never huge, 5 foot 8 and 15 stone. Size wise I was pretty normal in Rugby League terms.
In terms of the steriods I took, I took injections and oral. It was a long time ago, but from memory, Nandrolono, Dianabol, Stanazol/Winstrol. I had no problems with my testes, moobs or hair falling out. I always had a shaved head so wasn't noticable anyway. The steriods are taken in a cycle, along with a Post Course Therapy (more drugs to help you come off the steriods safer). Side effects I did notice was chest and back acne, still left with scars from them. Also strange mood swings - I was always a bit on the self important side of things so was argumentative more than normal. Also was a walking hard on. Seriously, even in my 30's when back on them I had the permanent horn.
My wife finds it very strange now. I've always mountain biked for fitness, so when injuries got the better of me and I had to stop lifting, cycling became my sole fitness focus. I'm now under 70kgs. She finds my physique a bit weird. Also finds it very amusing that I'm huffing and puffing lifting suitcases on holiday!
By the way, are Steriods illegal? I didn't think they were, just the selling of them is illegal? Back in the 80's and 90's they were very easy to get hold off. Not going into detail on that, but it was as easy as buying milk or a protein shake. Towards about 2004 they were more difficult, not sure why - but then "designer steriods" came on the market - not sure on the effectiveness of these, also think they are more dangerous as these are oral, going through the kindneys.

tbh im 40 this year and im starting to look at this kind of thing with interest.

Ive decided that i dont want to die early (although max age in my family is currently 69) and i want to be able to ride my bike. I look at these things and think great if i could pop a pill in the morning and have working legs every day and ride back to back days id be interested.

why dont they develop stuff like this? surely the market is massive?

w00dster
... I was never huge, 5 foot 8 and 15 stone. Size wise I was pretty normal in Rugby League terms....I’m now under 70kgs

I'm 5'8" and about 82kg. Methinks I need to put more effort into chub club!

The law seems to be;

Anabolic and androgenic steroids are Class C drugs under part 3, Schedule 2 to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and are liable to misuse by athletes and body builders for their muscle increasing and masculinising properties.

However, despite being Class C controlled drugs, they are exempt from the application of certain drugs offences.

Under regulation 4(2) of the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001, drugs specified in part 2, Schedule 4 to those Regulations are exempt from the importation/exportation of controlled drugs offences under section 3(1) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, if the importation/exportation is carried out in person for administration to that person. This exemption includes anabolic and androgenic steroids. (see note (i) below)

Under regulation 4(3) of the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001, drugs specified in part 2, Schedule 4 to those Regulations are also exempt from the possession of controlled drugs offence under section 5(1) of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, which include anabolic and androgenic steroids.

Therefore -

A person commits an offence if -

(a) he imports/exports anabolic or androgenic steroids, UNLESS:

(i) it is for his own use; AND
(ii) the importation/exportation is carried out in person.

(b) he possesses anabolic or androgenic steroids, other than for his own use.

(c) he possesses an anabolic or androgenic steroids with intent to supply.

Woodster really interesting and candid insight, was your steroid use supported by your club openly or tacitly or were you doing off your own back.

If you are a member of a sport that signs up to the UKAD code, than possession constitutes a doping offence.

A cyclist is currently serving a doping ban despite never having, not intending to compete, but being a member of British Cycling and in possession of an anabolic steroid.

Bodybuilding does not sign up to the UKAD code. But plenty of sports do. Rugby is an obvious one. And if you are a coach, then possession is also a doping violation, and you will receive a four year ban. Even if the steroids are for your own personal non-competitive use.

When I asked him what he was using, be didn’t know.

Some of these gents are not the sharpest pencils in the case.

Growth hormones are big part substance abuse

and the rest - insulin is more problematic (like, death, if you get a dose wrong), and then there is the more esoteric stuff

Arnie in the 70s was pretty much steroid only
Yates in the 80s was adding growth hormone to the mix
Cutler, insulin, GH, steroids, insulin-like growth factor

the list of fat loss stuff gets longer as time went on, too.

Dorian Yates seminar back in the early 90s, and he reckoned he’d made national top 3 clean,

and you believed that?

Club did not condone it nor made aware of it.
The usage though was reasonably prevalent throughout colts level. It was fairly obvious who was or wasn't on gear. I don't know how widespread it was at the highest levels, those guys are absolute machines. To play and train at their intensity levels, I have no idea how their bodies can take it. Mine couldn't hence having to stop playing at a fairly young age. I do believe they are clean by the way - I played with guys who were clean but were just monsters. In my day, Rugby Union was a different game than it is now. I didn't think steriods was particularly rife in Union (I played Rugby Union as well, but this was pub team / social playing). The weight gaining drug of choice in Rugby Union was Guinness by the bucket load ;0)

On the USA MTBR forum several of the older riders (60s and 70s) are users and justify it on account of lower testosterone in old age. They claim it helps their riding and overall health – they are being prescribed it by their doctors though. (Don’t think they compete)

Body builders often take over 100x - 1000x the natural dose every day, so way way more than a healthy human ever produced. A GP will just prescribe approx 1x the natural production dose (approx as it varies by individual).

Back in the 80’s and 90’s they were very easy to get hold off.

Still available in every globo gym up and down the country, just ask a PT, if he isn't dealing he will point you to someone who is. Crossfit, F45, you name it, some people will be on it. Or just ask any middle aged bloke with large muscles and the acne of a teenager 😉

steriods not only make your muscles bigger they also make the heart bigger too which results in serious problems.

you can build big muscles naturally just takes longer - still is a lot of hardwork steriod or natural. I think some of it is genetic though and also depends on your frame.

I always wonder about actors who are required to bulk up for some action roles and then slim down again for something else. I am sure having a PT turning up every day telling you exactly what to eat when, and what training to do helps but the surely most will be injecting to make the process easier and quicker.

althought my wife will be gutted if she knew Hugh Jackman was on the juice to play Wolverine.
he just seems such a lovely man!

Josh Brolin for Deadpool 2 must have been doing "something" (beyond some serious hard work!) - a ~50yr old bloke just can't do this naturally (can they??)

a pro body builder told me once that no one can eat enough to keep more than three stone of muscle on, so beyond that it’s roidys.

Nah, I went from a skinny 10 stone to 14 1/2 in my mid 20s and wasn't chubby and plenty of bigger people than me in the gym - not all doping I'm sure. These days, late 40s, I struggle to put on muscle though, use the very good gym at work (Uni) currently around 12 stone which seems a sensible weight for me now.

Different folk put on muscle differently; rules of thumb are notoriously slapdash

he said it’s a mental health illness

100% this. There was a guy on here a few years ago saying what gym stuff he needed to do as he "wanted to be big"

It sounded like a cry for help.

He was advised to do deadlifts IIRC

you can build big muscles naturally just takes longer

But you absolutely cannot build as much muscle as you can if you were on gear. It's sort of the raison d'etre of most of this stuff. Adding gear buys you 20lb of lean mass, given time and training, over a "never touched it".

And just look at the strength difference shown in the lifts during the Olympic weightlifting contests, by the various countries who have a rather lassaiz-faire attitude to using gear during training.

just can’t do this naturally (can they??)

I'm going with not natural for Brolin.

Same with Jackman.

You don't get disqualified from a film shoot if the director finds out you're on the juice.

tbh im 40 this year and im starting to look at this kind of thing with interest.

Ive decided that i dont want to die early (although max age in my family is currently 69) and i want to be able to ride my bike. I look at these things and think great if i could pop a pill in the morning and have working legs every day and ride back to back days id be interested.

why dont they develop stuff like this? surely the market is massive?

There was a guy on here a few years ago saying what gym stuff he needed to do as he “wanted to be big”

Not necessarily a mental health issue, could just be narcissism. It displays itself in many ways.

It's no different to women wanting to be slim. 99% of women's mags etc show size zero women and 99% of men's health style mags show ripped to buggery models (jacked to the eyeballs) on their covers. Hence every insecure male teenager thinks they need a 6 pack and 36" biceps to get a girlfriend and taking gear is a relatively cheap and easy way to get there.

I go to the gym, have a trainer. No drugs, just shows me the correct way to do the weights and has helped me around my knee injury.

I was talking to him about a friend of mine who thinks he's too fat to go to the gym as he's worried about folk staring at him. The trainer said that every single guy in there is just staring at themselves in the mirror. It's very narcissistic - especially near the dumbbells!

To be fair, there are TV screens in there with "#gymselfie or it didn't happen"... Hmmm.

gear is a relatively cheap and easy way to get there.

But it's not, the drugs allow the user to train harder and more frequently than without, they do not substitute the workload they increase it.

This is one of the knowing misdirections by the sports cheats and those that enable them (the omerta of past pros in the commentary box etc), they pretend that the cheats are taking the easy route while "honest" athletes have to work harder to achieve the same. But in reality it is the cheaters who work the hardest because without the drugs the human body just can't hack that level of training.

It's just the usual double standard tosh.

Can't be seen to promote in any way shape or form those naughty cheaty drugs.

But it’s not

Numerous studies indicate that stuffing steroids into a couch potato will result in muscular growth and fat loss.

Obviously you add "normal" training and then the real magic happens.

Yes, they also raise the bar in terms of how much training you can do, how large you get, etc. My point is they also raise the de-facto status quo position.

But in reality it is the cheaters who work the hardest because without the drugs the human body just can’t hack that level of training.

Not necessarily, loads of weight lifters probably lift too frequently for their recovery rate and could make the same gains for less hours in the gym or more gains with drugs for the same time. In cycling, the hours on the bike don't vary, you just recover faster / adapt better with drugs.

The only competitive body builder I know probably trains less hours than I do and he's absolutely huge (Mr Olympia invitee next year). But the main effort he puts in is eating, 7000+ calories a day means eating a portion of lean mince ever hour; which I simply couldn't do.

With EPO you can get fitter doing less as it just ups your red blood cell count whilst you sleep, so you basically get a 'free' aerobic boost without needing any training. Obviously, if you want to with the TdF seven times, you still need to put in the work; but probably no more than a clean team (who just wouldn't make the podium).

Steroids are completely normal across bodybuilding and strength sports, so I'd take the niaive comment from the judge with a pinch of salt. As mentioned above, there's no taboo but you won't see it in interviews because the pro body builders and magazines rely on supplement companies for sponsorship.

I've got a good friend who competed to a high level in 'clean' powerlifting. Despite his natural talent, he quit the sport because there was no point in him moving to open competitions because he could never compete against dopers and wasn't willing to dope himself.

I met a young lad a while back, he admitted using gear, having injections at the gym. When I asked him what he was using, be didn’t know. W T A F … I can’t grasp that you’d be into the whole scene & let someone jab you without actually: 1) understanding the drugs 2) actually knowing what your using.

In my experience the serious bodybuilders and athletes have many years of experience and knowledge before they consider doping, so they're much better informed. It's the young lads exposed to environments where it's culturally normalised and they're looking for a shortcut to get huge that are at risk. They generally don't know the risks, or are too short sighted to care.

There is a very good episode of The Real Science of Sport Podcast about drugs in sport I would recommend to anyone with an interest.

With EPO you can get fitter doing less as it just ups your red blood cell count whilst you sleep, so you basically get a ‘free’ aerobic boost without needing any training. Obviously, if you want to with the TdF seven times, you still need to put in the work; but probably no more than a clean team (who just wouldn’t make the podium).

Thats not strictly true, while it gives you a boost, you still need to train like a bastard to benefit from the boost, it isn't like adding a motor to your bike, the boost it gives is beyond your natural maximal effort, you have to train your body to take advantage of it. Your muscles still have to adapt to push every pedal stroke.

So for example if you are a clean cyclist you perform to your maximal natural training level, your ftp is say 250. You then add epo to the mix and you start pushing an ftp of 300 it feels easy, but your muscles will fail before the hour because they are not adapted to it, you still have to train up to that level. But with the boost that EPO is giving you you can up your training incrementally and achieve the results beyond your natural ability. Then you add testerone into the mix, and you can train 6 days a week instead of 4 or 5, and soon your ftp is getting beyond 400.

I think it was one of the sprinters who got busted who said, epo was great for increasing volume and intensity per training session, and the roids were great for adding more training sessions.

With EPO you can get fitter doing less as it just ups your red blood cell count whilst you sleep, so you basically get a ‘free’ aerobic boost without needing any training. Obviously, if you want to with the TdF seven times, you still need to put in the work; but probably no more than a clean team (who just wouldn’t make the podium).