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Following on from the Snow Socks thread...
Having bought the cockmobile as it was the best deal at the time, I am now hearing the doom-mongers' forecasts of a dreadful winter with a touch of trepidation.
So. The idea of buying a pair of steel wheels and getting them fitted with winter tyres, then lobbing them on the car for December - March sounds pretty good in theory.
BUT - does anyone actually have any real-world experience of this (rather than theoretical knowledge)? I realise this sounds rather cynical but I want to know how much difference this would actually make in practice, rather than in theory.
I don't expect to suddenly have Land Rover capability in the snow, but to put it bluntly times are hard and tyres are expensive, and forking out for a decent set of winter tyres and still getting stuck in half an inch of snow is definitely not going to fill my little world with joy.
So - real world experiences please?
Winter tyres on steelies FTW
A friend did it on his 3 series and was very impressed with the results.
I use winter tyres on my 3 series, and it makes a huge difference. It will be better than the vast majority of other cars running on standard tyres.
I think part of the reason the difference is so pronounced is because the standard tyres are so bad - what little tread they have runs around the tyre rather than across it.
Our neighbour used to put a paving slab in the boot during the winter.
My missus has 4 winters for her 1 series (still not fitted this year!).
Q: are / will you be on run flats?
I'd add that it doesn't have to be that expensive. I got a set of alloys very cheap from ebay by buying some with tyres already on, and then selling the tyres on. The winter tyres (Falkens) are less than half the price of the summer tyres, so by using them for half the year, I probably save money overall.
Drove a 5 series in Sweden on propper studded winter tyres, it was a real eye opener how capable it was. Same as seeing a Volvo 740 (rwd) come driving past me and a colleague whilst skating on a frozen river in Stockholm.
Right tyres makes all the difference, after that good throttle control and thinking before you get into a situation.
idea of buying a pair of steel wheels and getting them fitted with winter tyres
4 wheels recommend though, not just a pair.
Have just put winter tyres on my Civic. Last winter I wrote off my X-Trail on black ice on the Strines Road and this is just a peace of mind thing for me and my wife.
The guy at the garage was very honest. He said that winter tyres are for temps below 6 degrees and wet roads. Snow and ice are always going to be slippery. Especially in a RWD.
FWIW, he has put winter tyres on his mum's BMW.
So far, although it is probably all in my head, I believe there is a difference. The car feels far more uneventful and planted in corners. They were expensive but the two ways out of New Mills towards Stockport are both hazardous so I went for it.
I would say go for it.
Hey from Sweden. It is law to have Winter tyres with studs in after 1st December . They make a big difference, really do. However I have still managed to put a car in a ditch , they are not infallible
He said that winter tyres are for temps below 6 degrees and wet roads. Snow and ice are always going to be slippery.
Well they do make a huge difference on snow. They also make a decent difference on ice, but the difference between ice and tarmac is so huge that winter tyres are unlikely to be the difference between crashing and not if you hit ice unexpectedly.
I would answer the following questions honestly before you plump for spending money on winters:
1) do you actually have to drive when it's very snowy? Staying at home for a few days a year is a good option if work allows
2) How skillfull a driver are you. If you have good skills and can feel what the car is doing, and have good forward planning and observation, then you can get along on std tyres tbh
3) How much traffic do you drive in? For me, winters do not help me get to work, because everyone else is stuck, causing gridlock!
4) Can you put some weight in the boot. The only reason a bmw is less good than say a focus is the fact it has less % of its weight on the rear wheels. a couple of slabs, or some bags of sand makes a suprising difference
5) prepare yourself: snow socks, jack, towrope, and maybe some old bits of carpet can get you out of a pickle!
There are some dicks out there. The sooner it becomes the law, especially in Scotland, the better !
Don't get caught up in the "stay at home if the weather is bad". What if you are out and the weather turns? Leave your car at the roadside to get hit by a plough or another vehicle? There goes your NCD
Putting sufficient weight in the boot to make a difference is going to stuff your rear suspension costing you in the long run. Winter tyres work far better than ordinary tyres at anything below 7 degrees, so when it's 3 deg C in the morning but not actually frosty, they are a good bit better than "summer" tyres. Also look at the fact that if you use winters, your other wheels/tyres are safely tucked away so in reality, they don't cost that much extra to run, so long as you don't swap your car frequently.
They do work very well on the 1 series and hopefully they'll work well on my Z
@ Maxtorque
I'm not talking about very snowy - I just mean when there is moderate snow and untreated roads. With regard to the RWD situation - my tactic is to fill the boot with everything heavy that I own - along with a bag of rock salt and a shovel.
Without wishing to sound like a boastful arse, I do know how to drive in snow - I'm pretty experienced at it, however every advantage helps!
I have a 320d touring auto, so probably the worst combination of rear wheel drive and automatic gearbox (for driving when slippery).
Car came with a spare set of alloy wheels (official BMW ones, so overpriced), with winter tyres fitted. Made a huge difference and allowed me to he home last winter following the end of a week of training, 90 miles away from home. Snow really started to pelt it down on the road between Milford and Haslemere, lots of fwd cars in the ditch, unable to get up some of the hills, but I got through fine. Only trouble I had was getting into our shared driveway, which has a short but steep incline. Postman and local kids helped! I don't credit me getting home to my driving skills, so think the winter tyres do work. I know they are not snow specific studded tyres, but lots of slippery leaf mulch and wet roads round here, so would probably always get a set if possible.
So. The idea of buying a pair of steel wheels and getting them fitted with winter tyres,
This has been discussed at length (fitting to drive wheels only) on other threads. Much much better and safer to have winters all round.
Also, extra weight in the back helps with rear traction but at the expense of reduced steering and braking capability .
My take...
A 2wd car with (newish) Winter/Snow(M+S) tyres is as good as a 4wd with normal tyres.
A 4wd car with M+S tyres is the best you can get.
M+S tyres have 11mm tread when new (as oppose to 8mm for the normal Summer tyres) but are shot (though still legal at 4mm tread depth) when down to 5mm.
The grip for M+S tyres in dry conditions (above 07C) is inferior but way better in Icy/Snowy/Muddy conditions when it gets cold.
Above 07C M+S tyres wear quicker than normal Summer tyres because the
rubber compound is different.
If you leave M+S tyres on all year round the wear rate will be high.
Best to swap a set of wheel/tyres November and March if you want to have the benefit of Normal(Summer tyres) and M+S for Winter.
It's also compulsory over here in Germany to have winter tyres. IME you can drive almost normally in snow without any worries when you have them on. Our new car is fitted with four season tyres and they are nowhere near as good in proper snow. Just as a foot note... there is a slight slope near our house which gets pretty slippery after a few weeks of constant snow (the city have a policy of only clearing main roads) and the only cars that get stuck on it, even with winter tyres on, are BMWs!
I fit winter tyres in Oct ish - as soon as the weather starts getting toward low double digits to singles.
To the original question, yes, they make a huge difference in the snow. The main obstacle to you will be other road users who haven't fitted them.
As others say they make a difference also when the road is cold and not snow covered. If you can afford a nice car it's silly not to fit them really.
Mine go on the existing alloys.
maxtorque - MemberI would answer the following questions honestly before you plump for spending money on winters:
1) do you actually have to drive when it's very snowy? Staying at home for a few days a year is a good option if work allows
[b]TRUE[/b]
2) How skillfull a driver are you. If you have good skills and can feel what the car is doing, and have good forward planning and observation, then you can get along on std tyres tbh
[b]FALSE[/b]
3) How much traffic do you drive in? For me, winters do not help me get to work, because everyone else is stuck, causing gridlock!
[b]TRUE[/b]
4) Can you put some weight in the boot. The only reason a bmw is less good than say a focus is the fact it has less % of its weight on the rear wheels. a couple of slabs, or some bags of sand makes a suprising difference
[b]FALSE[/b]
5) prepare yourself: snow socks, jack, towrope, and maybe some old bits of carpet can get you out of a pickle!
[b]TRUE [/b]
Just my thoughts but probably [b]TRUE[/b]
Last year my wife and I had a 3 and 5 series Touring respectively.
With the 1st lot of snow my wife was unable to get up the hill to our house. As she was on call she had to return to work and sleep in her office. I had kitted both cars out with shovels, sleeping bags, salt and mats. She was 6 months pregnant at the time and kind of annoyed that the winter wheels ordered online came about 3 days too late.
As soon as she got the winters on she was able to get around no bother and we had quite a bit of snow last year. I only got home because I borrowed a 4x4 from work.
[img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8585910775_de6f8bd3d5.jp g" target="_blank">
This year we have already put the winters on both cars though having changed the wife's car I have sold the set to her dad for his 3 series.
While they won't turn it into a perfect car for the weather they do make a massive difference.
I put 4 Continental winter contact on my 3 series. I have to say I didn't really notice much improvement!
I find it impressive that driving skill allows you to bend the laws of physics.
Maybe in south of englandshire
'Mine go on the existing alloys. '
I have a spare set of alloys with M+S fitted so that I dont have to pay local tyre fitters to swap the tyres twice a year (but if I am feeling lazy I do pay them to swap the wheels over instead of doing it myself)...
2) How skillfull a driver are you. If you have good skills and can feel what the car is doing, and have good forward planning and observation, then you can get along on std tyres tbh
Agreed. In Germany they have recently introduced a law mandating winter tyres on almost all vehicles. It's called the WinterReifenAufAlleWagenAusserWagenDieVonGuterPlannungUndVielGuterTechnicHabenLeuteGefahrenSindGesetz
Aye, that point 2 is nonsense really. I have had various off road driving tuition for work, over a 20 year period so am probably better than average on the skills, planning etc. I can quite easily get my 520d tourer stuck on a nearly flat road. The bottom line with fat tyres and rwd is that if you have moderate driving skills and a bit wide road with no precious obstructions and keep the speed and momentum going then you might get where you want. Put same into a traffic situation and they're crap, regardless of the awesomeness of the driver
+1 to iainc. On standard tyres, I've been unable to get my 3 series off my completely flat driveway in a few inches of snow. Not really much chance for "driving skill" to enter into it.
The problem is a combination of wide tyres, less weight over the driving wheels, and a truly hopeless tread pattern on the standard tyres.
nitrambocg - Member
'Mine go on the existing alloys. 'I have a spare set of alloys with M+S fitted so that I dont have to pay local tyre fitters to swap the tyres twice a year (but if I am feeling lazy I do pay them to swap the wheels over instead of doing it myself)...
It doesn't cost me more than a beer. I may consider a second set of wheels in the future if that were to change.
Unless you're seriously hard up I dunno why ppl need to justify them. If you're riding a decent bike you've summer and winter tyres on that so why not same for the car.
the difference is the same and it doesn't have to be snowy or that cold to feel a difference. Excluding cost of wheels or changing tyres it costs no more long term as you're spreading the wear over 2 sets.
With regard to a lot of the above, it also depends where you live. IR Bandito has just put the steelies and winter tyres on his Focus up in Hexham; it hasn't even crossed my mind on the Isle of Wight.
Re cost, yes to get four steelies and tyres is an outlay but they will last a few winters. Your not using the summer tyres whilst the winters are on so its not like paying to run two sets at the same time, if you follow my thinking...
'If you're riding a decent bike you've summer and winter tyres on that so why not same for the car.'
Quite so... I have 3 sets of wheels for my Trek Fuel 90.
Tubeless Furious Freds on CrossMax Disc for Summer dry conditions.
Schwalbe Racing Ralphs on Bontrager Race X-Lite for Wet/Mixed.
Schwalbe Nobby Nick on Bontrager Race X for extreme conditions.
Dependent on the conditions I change the wheels and tyres rather than change the tyres on one set of wheels (its way quicker).
Do you have to inform your Insurance Company if you put Winter tyres on...?
Re insurance. Depends. Informed company last year and no charge but wanted to know details ie fitted sizes recommended by manufacturer. (Direct Line)
This year sent them an email and reply was thanks but you don't need to tell us. (Groupama)
Best option is to tell them. As long as fitting sizes recommended by manufacturer then should be able to argue no additional cost.
OP yes it will make a big difference not least as typical BMW rear wheel drive with sports tyres are terrible in snow.
[b]pdw[/b]
I use winter tyres on my 3 series, and it makes a huge difference. It will be better than the vast majority of other cars running on standard tyres.
I think "vast majority" is a bit optimistic, I have an A6 Quattro which performs brilliantly in the snow with standard tyres, driven it a lot in the uk and alps in winter snow and ice, I'd be very surprised if a BMW on winter tyres was better.
If by performs brilliantly you mean - can move. My experiance in quatros is that they aint much better than 2wd .
One of our rear wheels was spinning and it was game over get out and push . Wasnt driving mind you.
What goods 4wd if it lets you spin up 1 wheel ! - 1 wheel on each axel i can understand.
Cant beat a good lsd in the back axel and a centre diff thats more than unicorns and rainbows.
trail_rat
I find it impressive that driving skill allows you to bend the laws of physics.
Not bend, but exploit.
For example, only stop on slight downslopes
Use 1st and rev to rock yourself into motion
Use the handbrake to turn the car at low speed to avoid the front tyres acting like snow plows
Use the clutch to prevent yaw building on cambered roads
Release the throttle as the rear wheels spin up, rather than accelerating harder
Let a lot of air out of your tyres to get more heat and flex into them
Have good enough clutch control to pull away without any throttle input
Pre empt other drivers to help avoid the need to brake or steer suddenly
Understand the difference between grip and traction
Understand mass transfer and how to exploit it
All of those^^ things make a small difference and they add up. yes, you might struggle to get going (carry a shovel and some old carpets and string (put carpet infront of rear tyres, tie carpet to tow hitch with 5feet of string (saves having to stop and pick up carpet!)) But once you're going you'd be amazed where you can get too!
If you go to places like scandinavia, they generally drive normal 2wd cars, often rwd, without issue (ok, they do use winter tyres a lot, but they have a LOT more snow than us!)
Now i'm not saying winter tyres are a bad idea, of course they are not, but there is no absolute requirement to go out and spend £1k on a set for two days of light snow a year.........
If you go to places like scandinavia, they generally drive normal 2wd cars, often rwd, without issue (ok, they do use winter tyres a lot, but they have a LOT more snow than us!)
One thing to bear in mind is that ice/snow is at its slipperiest when it's nearly thawing. I found driving in the severe winter of 2009-10 much easier than in milder, -2 --> +2C conditions
for info:
Nordic region do not use the same winter tires as Continental Europe....
They have studded & non-studded (called 'friction') tire types with compounds designed to work in even colder temperatures.
They perform less well on cold wet asphalt but if driving on a fully snow/ice covered road they are surprisingly good.
In response to OP: I also drive BMW & the difference with winter tires is huge when the conditions get bad. Mostly though you will probably not realise unless you drive back-to-back another car with summer tires.
When snow is forecast I also sling some bags of sand in the back (50kg). Again without making back-to-back test its not crystal clear difference but I feel that it helps...
.
Hey trail rat, you're a 4x4 man... I remember getting out with a spanner on the drum snail to lock a wheel when getting cross-axled or losing traction at one wheel on the old Series Land Rovers! 😯
Maxtorque, another useful skill is to left-foot cadence brake as a diy limited slip diff.
A lot of driving is instinctive based on how we drive 99% of the time; when the road is slippery it can be difficult to trust engine braking, to not drop the clutch when braking... these things are unintuitive. And it can be intimidating trying to concentrate on the road ahead with an 'expert' tailgating you in snow as you proceed with extra care!
There's no doubt that winter snowflake tyres are better than normal tyres in cold/snow conditions but for a lot of people in GB they're not really essential on a cost/need basis IMO. However, if you can meet the cost or really have the need, invest in them. They'll be worth it but remember, they're not magic!
I've experienced how good studded tyres are on ice and compacted snow as a passenger in a Renault Espace taxi in the three valley's with a lunatic French taxi driver at the helm. He decided he didn't want to take the main road up the mountain and took us up a series of twisty minor roads at speed. I was seriously starting to fear for my life but the car didn't put a foot wrong.
Also in Moscow on a motorway covered in compacted snow honing along at 70/80mph. Again very scary due to the ridiculous driving, but the car seemed to have enough grip to drive at those speeds, it was chaining lane with no drama, slowing down to turn off at junctions, he seemed to be able to drive normally - though I'm glad an emergency stop or evasive manoeuvres weren't required at any time.
Maybe im biased in that i seem to get a month or so of snow at least in north east scotland
Its worth doing 32 mpg on the few mile i do when not snowing to be able to drive to work on the back roads instead of it taking 4/5 hours to get in to office. - and being a horrorfest just getting to a ploughed road
Why the 32mpg trailrat? Is that a the or vehicle thing?
I put winter tyres in for the first time last year (fwd golf diesel) and in my normal commute across the top of the Mendips and down the cheddar gorge, they made a huge differance in the snow, hard frosts and wet. I was driving past stuck vehicles without any bother at all.
However, the biggest jam I found was in Bath, due to all the. Numpties who couldn't get through 1/2 inch of snow. Sadly winter tyres don't give you an ability to drive over the cars in front monster truck style!
[i]to not drop the clutch when braking[/i]
who drops the clutch when braking?
Its the vehicle.
[i]It's also compulsory over here in Germany to have winter tyres. [/i]
They are only mandatory if it's 'wintery'..., and how you define 'wintery' I've no idea but I guess it could be anytime of year - 40 euro fine.
(4) - Germany introduced regulations in 2010 requiring all passenger cars and motorbikes including vehicles from foreign countries to be fitted with winter tyres or all season tyres on all axles when conditions are wintry. Winter tyres (or 'all season' tyres) should bear the mark M+S* or the snowflake symbol on the side wall.
Winter tyres are far better in snow, in the same way that trailrakers are far better in mud than small block 8s. Tools for jobs.
You may be able to get by with a shovel and carpet, but why faff around when you could just be driving away?
Yes major roads get blocked with people on summer tyres, but the nice thing about winters is that you can detour on the minor roads.
And 4WD is not a substitute for the right rubber. It helps you get moving but does not help braking or cornering.
Those arguing against winter tyres have never used them, I'm sure.
If you're riding a decent bike you've summer and winter tyres on that so why not same for the car.
High Rollers all year round here and i'd say my bikes are decent.
I've no experience of winter tyres but i'm guessing you need to spend decent money for a decent tyre? I've a spare set of alloys in the shed that i'd convert if i could do it cheaply.
Euro, if you already have spare wheels you are laughing. The outlay is the same as normal tyres (£90 each for my Passat) and once they are fitted to your spares you don't have to pay for them to be fitted.
Doesn't cost a penny in the long run because your summers last much longer of course, so it evens out.
Tip: don't put massive weight in the boot of RWD car. Yes it will help to get car moving but it will be nasty in the corners and makes correcting slides much more difficult.
Been driving 20 years in Scandinavian winters and would choose FWD/RWD with winter tyres over 4WD with summer tyres always for the winter season. 4wd is nice to drive but they are really a minority here, even compared to number of Beamers and Mercs on the road.
Dads A Omega was quite fun to drive on ice, getting fairly impressive slides even on the modest speeds.
OK. The OH and I are in agreement, and are currently looking for a set of steelies to have the aforementioned winter tyres fitted to.
Just one question,
Do you think this might be a tad too much?
[img] 
[/img]
A danish friend had winter tyres on her z4 when I was last over, it still steps out on roundabouts but was a lot better, they had 5x the snow the UK had and the UK was in shutdown that week 🙂
It's compulsory to have them from November to march in austria
If you have a crash and kill someone without winter tyres at that time you will be tried for murder.
Back in June I bought an overly powerful german RWD car. One of the first things i did was to buy
4 secondhand alloy's from eBay - £200
4 part worn (5-6mm tread) Dunlop winter runflats £100 (I got a mega bargain but it was June)
Fitted at a local tyre place £40
So for £340 (less than the retail cost of one of my rear summer tyres) I'm in a much safer place than I would have been. I'll also add weight to the boot.
I estimate I'll get two winters from the part worns, when they need replacing I'll buy another set in the summer months.
I fitted them this weekend.
I've got a sensible ford, rather than a daft beemer.
Winter tyres on my spare steel wheels went on this weekend in prperation for the first cold snap.
Thing is with British weather is its usually just cold and wet in the winter, with occasional snow and ice, and that's where the tyres perform bloody brilliantly.
My take...
A 2wd car with (newish) Winter/Snow(M+S) tyres is as good as a 4wd with normal tyres.
Having driven my brothers '09 range rover (on normal road tyres, but not rubber bands) I have to disagree with this somewhat - that said, the RR is a very clever car and can handle a lot more than you think if you switch on the correct function.
I drive an XC90 with winter tyres fitted all the time.
Finally put the winter tyres on today - come on snow!
I don't drive hard enough on the road to notice the difference in the dry. The snow tyres are marginally noisier but there is not a lot in it.
The rear Summer tyres were down 3mm so due to get replaced soon - swapping back to winters will give me some time before having to shell out.
Sharkbait- all the gadgets in the world still wont stop nearly 2 tonnes in a hurry - infact they may even extend braking distances when they sense slipping.
320d owner here.
Big fan of winter tyres.
When it's warm the winters are a bit more vague than the summers (stuck 'em on early this year as the summers were worn out), but once the temperature drops below about 7°C the winters are much better from cold - quieter and grippier (living in Sheffield, there's some truly shocking tarmac - with the summers on and the car cold, there's tarmac at the top of the hill that will have the traction control going off every time I drive over it. Winter's - no problem). To be honest I don't think of them as "snow" tyres as such, just cold weather.
I still won't get anywhere in deep snow (a front bumper that's well less than 6" off the deck won't help!) but in slush or packed down snow the car can be driven, and more importantly stopped in a fairly normal fashion. When it does go, it's very well balanced and the slide can be held or recovered as appropriate. Ice is still scary, but it is possible for the car to pull up in a straight line in a controlled fashion. Last year it got driven around the Peaks in the snow quite a lot and we also ended up caught on Kintyre for 3 days when that got cut off from the mainland, and the car was our lifeline to (heating)fuel and food.
If you drive like a bellend, you'll still have problems, but drive sensibly and anticipate correctly and it's perfectly possible to make normal progress in most conditions. I'd be more worried about getting hit by other people, than me hitting them.
Mine are on their 3rd winter now and barely look used, although my mileage has dropped mahoosively since moving up north. Money well spent in my book.
mightymule -
Theres a lot of useful information posted in this thread.
Winter tyres are a must I say on any car in the winter months when temp is 7'c of below.
I running goodyear ultragrip 8 this season on the E60, previously used Michelin Alpins and Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D's. I normally run 18's but switch to 16's for the winter rubber.
I was not impressed with the performance of the Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3Ds last year compared to the Alpins, which has resulted in me changing them this season, so we will see how the Ultragrip's fair.
I also run Alpins on the Golf GTI which perform really good too.
To date - touch wood... i have never got stuck in the E60 in extreme snow, but lets not forget its not the odd one or 2 major days of snow we fit these tyres, it is for the duration of the winter when the temps are cooler and summer compound hardens.
I have driven in Sweden and Norway enough times to highlight the benefits which is the core reason for me running the rubber here in the UK.
Below is a video of us driving in Sweden heading upto Hagfors for a WRC rally stage.
If it was upto me it should be law in the uk too, however it will never happen at the moment.
From one of today's papers 😉
The first overturned car of the snow season...
[img] 
[/img]
I run winter tyres and think they're great.
On summer rubber too....
sharkbait -Having driven my brothers '09 range rover (on normal road tyres, but not rubber bands) I have to disagree with this somewhat - that said, the RR is a very clever car and can handle a lot more than you think if you switch on the correct function.
I drive an XC90 with winter tyres fitted all the time.
I disagree..To a certain point.... maybe the traction control can get the car moving in snow to a certain level - but try stopping 2 tons it at 70mph on cold surface tarmac compared to winter rubber. its not all about getting going.. its traction and lateral grip
As the driver of that BMW found out!
I have decent re alloys with jinyu winter tyres for the winter months. The alloys replaced the rubbish bmw mv1 alloys which had both cracked and been weld repaired! . The dezent re alloys are very strong winter alloys. . Which look so much better than the steel and are same price! The winter tyres are very good and not expensive. . £750 for tyre and wheel package. Apparently Most eu countries it is law to have winter tyres, why not gb?
Got some Maxxis Presta Snow on the front, Great Tyres.
Passed through this chaos over Cwm Prysor ( Between Bala and Trawsfynnydd ) this morning with no problems.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25000562
I think winter tyres are a great idea but I also think that the skid pan day I did with my daughter also taught me more about sensible car control, which with being combined with winter tyres would give me a better chance of escaping an incident.
beicmynydd - MemberGot some Maxxis Presta Snow on the front, Great Tyres.
On the front only ?? not a good idea 😯
On the front only ?? not a good idea
I take your point rickt
I know if you don't have 4 and there is a good chance of a spin.
But at least I can go to and from work without having to walk up hill for the last mile !
I had a blowout on a rear on my 3 series touring and am looking to either go for winter or all season tyres.
Anyone used the all seasons in bad weather yet?
No experience of all season tyres but you don't have to spend a fortune on Winter tyres - I'm running a set of Rockstone Eco Snow run flats on an E61 - they were apparently designed for the E60/61.
I've not tried any big brand Winters (run Goodyear Eagles in the Summer) but have been very happy with the Eco Snows - you can pick a set up for under £400 if you shop around.
neninja - how do you find the wet performance of them ? (That's what normally lets these Far East rubber rings down). You running it as a 225/50/17?
Yes, 225/50/17 run flats
They've been ok in the wet. You can feel a little movement but nothing worrying. Was out on damp greasy roads yesterday evening in sub zero temps which would normally be the worst surface (apart from ice) and they did drift slightly but very predictably and the traction control light didn't come on once.
http://www.tyretest.com/wintercar_tyres/rockstone/ecosnow_run_flat/index.html
Update on the Rockstone Eco Snow - avoid them.
I've changed my mind. They are fine in the dry and when it's properly wet but have become sphincter twitchingly scary on the damp greasy roads we have at the moment. At motorway speeds (70ish) on the A66 dual carriageway near Brough you could feel the whole car drifting sideways on sweeping corners. At lower speeds I've been totally sideways at low speeds on roundabouts with traction and stability control both on! They are gripping less well at around freezing temps than the Goodyear Eagle Summer tyres I had on before. Tyre pressures are all correct.
They are coming off and going on Ebay - lesson learnt. I always say buy cheap and buy twice but on this occasion made that mistake (at least I only paid £200 for them - I now know why the person I bought them from had hardly used them).
Got a set of Nokian WR A3 run flats on the way from [url=
Tyres[/url] - £125 per tyre delivered which is a great price. They can supply Winter tyres from most of the big brands at much cheaper prices than I've seen anywhere else.
Yeah - your findings are very common with tyres from that sector of the market.
There is no way a lot of these tyres should be legal.