You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Kit Malthouse, predicted that many of the boxes being thrown up on the outskirts of towns would soon be “ripped down and bulldozed” as unsuitable.
I hope not, only just got fibre broadband on order!
The real issue with living on one such estate isn't the houses, either design or quality, it's the amenities. Older suburbs of Cardiff have High Streets with lots of shops both essential and non. They are lovely. Since it's been built more or less concentrically outwards since its heyday in the early 20th century, you can date when they started giving up on subjects. It appears to be around the 1930s when they stopped creating liveable mini-towns and started focusing on private housing. Even the 60s-70s stuff, whilst it has a few clusters of shops and even leisure centres, doesn't have anywhere you'd want to go to get more than a pint of milk and a paper. In our 90s-2010s area, we only have a retail park.
I don't know why they can't put in a strip of shops and restaurants and stuff to actually create something more than a dormitory. The new development across the road is allegedly getting a shop, but that's not enough even though they make it sound like a big deal.
What about all those 70’s and 80’s estates that were built for 20years that are still up?
#telford
🤷♂️🧟♂️
My folks have recently moved, and looked at some of these newer developments, and what struck them (and me) was the number of cars parked on the pavements. The houses have driveways with space for one or two cars, and yet the roads in these developments are chock-full of cars and vans.
They all seem geared towards the car, and not pedestrians or cyclists which, if one was hoping we'd be building for a sustainable future, you would hope would take precedence.
They seem to built now with the expectation that we people are happy to never speak to their neighbour and will always just climb into a car to drive to work some distance away.
Imagine if they actually put some thought in, made them social hubs where people could get to know one another, bike lanes and greenspaces where kids were safe and schools could be walked to without the need for a large SUV....?
It may be seem slightly backwards after years living in cities for me, but i love living in a quiet rural village now, know all the neighbours, frequent the local village shop as much for the gossip as to buy anything, cycle to the pub, wouldn't change it now
We live on a 300 home estate in the north east. They claimed that at the end of the road they were going to build a small amenity area with a pub, some shops and possibly a doctors. Never happened, not going to happen. It's a dormitory of plasterboard tents on reclaimed contaminated land made to look like a country park.
You don't even get a pub with a flat roof on these new developments
I looked round a big new build estate in near lancaster. It's got bubble written all over it as they buy your house off you at full value. Loads of cars as stated and nothing to do. Just loads of little houses with no green space. The congestion at peak times is a nightmare as access is poor. I can see why people buy them as loads of space, en suites, everything new etc.
We have lots of cars on our street for two reasons. One is that the developers gave the smaller houses one driveway and a useless little bit of garden - many owners have made this into a second driveway but not all; and the other is that people just get more cars than they have space for without a care and leave them in the ****ing way all over the place. You have to push pushchairs in the road to get out of the street, around a corner which is now blind because of all the cars on the pavement. Bastards. AND on top of that there's loads of parking space about 20m away up the hill, but that's too far to walk apparently.
I can see why people buy them as loads of space, en suites, everything new etc
In my experience, new builds have no space, 4 bedrooms where there should be 2 or 3, tiny garden not fit for a family house, no privacy.
hot_fiat
Subscriber
We live on a 300 home estate in the north east. They claimed that at the end of the road they were going to build a small amenity area with a pub, some shops and possibly a doctors. Never happened, not going to happen. It’s a dormitory of plasterboard tents on reclaimed contaminated land made to look like a country park.Just walk to the service station or tramp across the fields to the cricket club, what more do you want😂😂
What I don't understand is where are all these people coming from!? There's so many new houses being built round here, thousands. They're squeezing houses into every available space and all the outlying villages have huge Estates tacked into them now (with no extra infrastructure like school places etc') Add soon as each house is finished, someone move straight in despite it still being a building site. But where were all these keen people living before? There must be empty old houses all over the country, our were they all living with their parents!? It doesn't add up to me.
What I don’t understand is where are all these people coming from!? There’s so many new houses being built round here, thousands.
Depends where you live. Around here they're all bought as second/holiday homes.
Some newbuilds are nice, some are trash. It always was the same.
From memory, the increase in the number of houses 'needed' is driven by 3 things :
Shrinking household size
Births
Net Immigration
In that order
The reason they’re building so many is simple - we don’t have enough housing stock in the right place in the UK.
The reason we don’t have enough housing stock is that the combined will of NIMBYs and the desire to have house values rising at way over inflation / salaries resulted in ‘Green Belt’ legislation which meant very few family homes being built in 20 years and millions of tiny flats for the BLT market. This allowed for house prices rises through the ‘Great Recession’ which kept the banks solvent.
The banks are now robust enough to handle a stagnation / reduction in values and there are now more ‘have nots’ in the population than ‘haves’ so suddenly the ‘Green Belt’ isn’t so important.
Millions of new homes are going to be built in the next 10 years, sadly again because of the planning regs most towns and cities have only small patches of land to use and builders have a bit of a monopoly - I know for a fact that Persimmon, who’ve been in the news of late for billing shoddy houses are working to a 40% margin for new houses. They blame a lack of skills for the problems, but in truth they’re forcing workers to throw them up as quick as possible to minimise the time between buying the land and recouping the cost so they can buy the next patch. It’s cheaper to fix the ‘snags’ after they’re paid.
I can’t see a return to a time when you can buy a nice, normal price family home with a decent garden, any sort of storage space or heaven forbid a garage.
I can’t see a return to a time when you can buy a nice, normal price family home with a decent garden, any sort of storage space or heaven forbid a garage.
Maybe not where you live. Still available in other locations.
Just walk to the service station or tramp across the fields to the cricket club, what more do you want
Ahh yes. “Arrl hev a Hot Durg and twa large burttls uv Smirnuf ice.” As heard uttered by one dressing gown and slipper-clad being in the queue for the garage night pay recently. Not been in the cricket club.
What I don’t understand is where are all these people coming from!?
Ladies wombs, mostly. Population is increasing I think.
There are thousands of new houses going up in Cardiff, which is ok cos there's plenty of room. But no-one seems to be interested in upgrading the road network to deal with the extra people. It could get difficult.
I see them get knocked up in no time round my way. I’m no builder but the quality looks poor, I just wonder what they’ll look like in 50 years time?
There are some very simple commercial reasons this happens. Larger houses sold to private owners are more profitable than small commercial. They are also more profitable than RSL or shared ownership, hence regulation.
If developers had their way every development would be a sea 3-5 beds, only regulation will change this
Even infill developments are getting horrendous, a pair of semis near us was demolished and 5 4 storey houses built.
#profitcomesfirst
My folks have recently moved, and looked at some of these newer developments, and what struck them (and me) was the number of cars parked on the pavements. The houses have driveways with space for one or two cars, and yet the roads in these developments are chock-full of cars and vans.
They all seem geared towards the car, and not pedestrians or cyclists which, if one was hoping we’d be building for a sustainable future, you would hope would take precedence.
Ironically you're wrong.
The reason everyone is parked on the pavement is because councils for some reason believe that by only alowing one car space per house that people will suddenly only want one car and just bus/cycle everywhere. They even made the turning into the estate bus only on the one I our village! Trouble is, there's no bus, and the village is pretty much on the m4 so not exactly going to attract cycle commuters.
That would be nice
Population is growing because old people aren't dying in their 60s they live to 80. Housing needs to be built to plan for this.
Westminster (as usual) wants to ignore it so they don't have to do unpopular things like build on golf courses or find money to give to the councils to build the houses that are actually needed for realistic renting or have to plan services like transport or education or health ???!!! Come on they have important stuff like... er...
Yeah it's another social turd being laid for our childrens generation to clear up. Smartest thing our children can do is not have children; completely break the cycle of economic growth
Ahh yes. “Arrl hev a Hot Durg and twa large burttls uv Smirnuf ice.” As heard uttered by one dressing gown and slipper-clad being in the queue for the garage night pay recently. Not been in the cricket club.
Only ever been in CC for “do’s” you could always walk into shiney row.......then again maybe not!
Mostly new builds are awful round here (Staffs) - They throw them up with room for 2 cars at the front (just) and a postage stamp for a garden. They don't build any parks or shops or green areas for the kids to play or if they do it's so small that it's very crowded. There's no where for people to walk their dog, you see them just walking up and down the main road. They all have teeny tiny windows and garages that don't fit a car. I despair when I see them and wonder why do people buy them??
Cramming them in around here - as many bedrooms as possible.
Alot of this around too.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
It pretty much comes down to cars. Everybody in this country outside of some select urban areas drive everywhere anyway, and most attempts to change their minds either fail, or attract huge outrage and then get changed back.
Everyone drives to the supermarket for most of their shopping, or into the nearest town for dinner or drinks. This means that you need a much higher population to support a shop or pub on an estate than when everybody just walked to the local every time. And because everybody wants a detached 3-5 bed with garage and a driveway out front and a garden, and new estates have a much lower population density than traditional terraced housing. And fewer people per room than historically too. It’s rare that one developer will have enough connected land to build an estate large enough to support a shop, and even if they do, the size of it will probably mean that the shops too far away from the houses on the edge for them to bother walking to it anyway.
You can build walkable developments in areas where the amenities are already in place, ie city centres, but land values mean flats, and lots of people choose a garden, garage and a driveway over walking to the shops.
Ironically you’re wrong.
He's not.
My BiL lives on a new estate in the East end of glasgow, all the houses have 2 or 3 spaces for cars, but lots of the inhabitants have at least 3 or 4 cars - works vans, teenage kids cars etc - and this is an estate that has a train station 100 yards down the road with a frequent service into the city, and a main road with decent buses up the road.
Folk are just lazy insular bastards.
" But no-one seems to be interested in upgrading the road network to deal with the extra people"
Most large developments (100+ units) will be subject to a Section 106 agreement with the local authority. Generally this requires a financial commitment to the Local Authority for a number of things including :- road/junction improvements near or associated with the site, possibly a contribution to primary & secondary school provision, a library provision contribution, plus whatever else is considered necessary for the area.
The development will not go ahead until this is agreed. Could it be that the LAs are not keeping their end of the bargain?
Other roadworks might be required under a section 278, which must be in place before a certain number of houses/flats are occupied.
I know there's no other practical choice but the seeming rise in people parking work vans outside their houses is annoying, down my residential road it turns a two lane normal road with good visibility into a single lane where you can't see anything (gentle bend) due to the wall of van sides so just have to hope nothing is coming the other way or there's somewhere to pull back in. It's not helped by the number of dopey idiots that think it's fine to do 30mph through either.
Some nicer looking new builds on the outskirts of Eastbourne BUT most are shocking box things, as others have stated with tiny windows, a drive barely capable of holding two small cars and a postage stamp garden, also very narrow roads as well. No extra Doctor's surgeries, schools or other infrastructure like parks/playgrounds.
There is a plan in progress for more homes near me and the developer scum repeatedly tries to erode the infrastructure I've mentioned above and increase the housing numbers on the plan. I fear it is only a matter of time before the planning team get "incentivised" enough to pass it.
The proposed road junction improvements will just move the horrendous jams we already have at peak time slightly along the road a bit.
oh and Mrs M used to work in a school that was built as part of a plan to knock down an old school and redevelop into housing and a supermarket. Whilst touring the "fantastic" new build school as it was being built she had the temerity to point out that one double power point per classroom was not really good enough. "But that will cost more money........."
Where I live, cars parked on the road is an absolute nightmare. The really annoying thing is that each house has two spaces on a decent size driveway. Me and Mrs W have a car each and occasionally it is a pain in the backside when the rear car is needed, but its no big deal. Other people park one car on the drive and the second half on the road half on the pavement. Double parked quite often. We also have a number of houses with no drive but a large parking area at the rear of their property (almost mews like) - but hardly anyone bothers. This appears to be where people decide to leave their rubbish, washing machines they no longer need etc.
Shops wise, on the new build estate I'm in I can't complain. We have a Tesco express, Indian restaurant (pretty good one at that), fish and chip shop and a Dominos. Schools are all in a handy location and there's even two local drug dealers within 200 metres of the shop and school - sorted!
Most large developments (100+ units) will be subject to a Section 106 agreement with the local authority. Generally this requires a financial commitment to the Local Authority for a number of things including :- road/junction improvements near or associated with the site, possibly a contribution to primary & secondary school provision, a library provision contribution, plus whatever else is considered necessary for the area.The development will not go ahead until this is agreed. Could it be that the LAs are not keeping their end of the bargain?
Certainly round by me this is an issue - there have been complaints in the local press about developers somehow 'forgetting' to follow through on the S106 requirements, or more often paying a sum of money to the council in lieu of their obligations.
Hope someone can do the link, You Tube Peter Paul and Mary Little Boxes, even more relevant now 🙄
I remember my professor of land use planning 20 years ago at Uny describing them as "ghettos of the future" , basically because of lack of amenities, dependance on the car, barrier effect of say distance to town (and aforementioned amenities), a large road or trainline cutting them off . Everything is done to maximise profit (small windows that meet the minimum standard, placing of a crappy playground on the rubbish bit of land that won't sell to build a house, as little infrastructure/green space for the poor cash strapped councils to maintain) and so on. More broken Britain I'm afraid ... 🙂
I can see why people buy them as loads of space, en suites, everything new etc
Well known as the Commuter's / Commuting paradox..
This is what economists call "the commuting paradox." Most people travel long distances with the idea that they'll accept the burden for something better, be it a house, salary, or school. They presume the trade-off is worth the agony. But studies show that commuters are on average much less satisfied with their lives than noncommuters. A commuter who travels one hour, one way, would have to make 40% more than his current salary to be as fully satisfied with his life as a noncommuter, say economists Bruno S. Frey and Alois Stutzer of the University of Zurich's Institute for Empirical Research in Economics. People usually overestimate the value of the things they'll obtain by commuting -- more money, more material goods, more prestige -- and underestimate the benefit of what they are losing: social connections, hobbies, and health. "Commuting is a stress that doesn't pay off," says Stutzer.
People don't want facilities. Estates used to have a chippy, a bookie's and a mini-market at least. Now that is replaced by a delivery moped, pissitaway247 and a shop selling dodgy fags and booze to the underage. The last might not exist unless the estate is old and "council".
People DO want facilities. The places with decent high streets are popular. They just accept that if they move to the 'burbs there won't be any because that's how it's always been.
It's interesting that posters in this thread criticise modern housing for being too small but also population density for being too low.. hmm.
I honestly think that it's just poor design that's at fault here - and that can only be changed by the authorities actually forcing the builders to create something decent. In other words, having a strong strategy well enforced by competent leaders. So we're screwed obviously.
How many threads about shops closing do we have where some bright spark chimes in with ‘I do everything on the internet, I can’t wait to stop having to fund the lives of shop owners, and to put up with their antiquated way of doing business!’
Thats why new shops don’t get built.
and that can only be changed by the authorities actually forcing the builders to create something decent.
Planning departments have been cut to the bone by Austerity, plus they regularly get over ruled by the Secretary of State. The law was also changed to make them responisble for the applicant's legal fees if they loose an objection; thus stacking the odds very much in favour of a developer getting exactly what they want. Throw an expensive legal team at an application and the LA can't afford to fund an appeal, so just caves.
Cambridge is a case in point, we have an approved local plan with site designations but the Secretary of State just over rules the local Planning authority each time and the local plan is completely ignored. Nothing the LA can do about it. The irony being having a local plan is a legal requirement enforced and approved by the Secretary of State, who will then over rule it in exchange for an unrelated 'donation' to Tory party coffers....
djglover & footflaps +1
Look at the donations made to the Tories by housebuilders and it becomes clear why we're getting the wrong kind of houses built on greenfield sites in expensive areas rather than affordable homes built on brownfield sites where people wouldn't have to drive everywhere.
These estates are deeply disturbing but what is far more disturbing is the fact that people actually seem to want to live in them, they actually aspire to the bland dull soulless existence of living in poorly built houses that all look the same.
There are thousands of new houses going up in Cardiff, which is ok cos there’s plenty of room. But no-one seems to be interested in upgrading the road network to deal with the extra people. It could get difficult.
Its' really annoying isn't it.
The original plans for a lot of them include a lot of infrastructure, bus stops, cycle network and yes roads, but as they come closer to being built they don't seem to mention those - it's most like use exiting (busy) network in your car, or roll the dice on some pretty uncycle-friendly road. Frankly it's a case of cramming as many houses into the space as possible.
^^^^
within 2 miles of my house:
controversial site with permission for 52 caravans,
currently building 110 2/3/4/5 houses.
controversial site with permission for 1100 homes, contingent on restoring railway link to nearest city, new school,shops etc.
starting work on 'phase 1' of 750 homes, with all the good stuff in 'phase 2'. odds of phase 2 happening? slim to none.
Good timing.
We’re currently looking to move, 30 miles up the road to Salisbury, so the wife can be walking distance to her Mum (actually my idea).
Currently we own an ex local authority 1950s semi. It’s not the most attractive. But solid, and big! Big gardens f/r too. It backs on to big playing fields. Space wasn’t such as issue a few decades ago? I bought it as it was good value.
We went to look at some of the new builds (the development is half done, so people living in a building site, where the end of the road is just sand/gravel and diggers). My wife loves these, they are all shiny and new, and have ensuites etc.
I hated them thoroughly, escp in contrast to our current old house (tbf I knew I would).
They are typically small and thin. Very very overlooked, no privacy. Postage stamp garden. They do have garages, but stupidly, not next to the house. Lots of odd decision with the planning and design. We did look at a similar existing development adjacent to this new one, which is prob couple decades old. The cars parked everywhere did stand out to me.
An old house, with a bit of life in it for me every time.
Loads in Cheshire round Jct 18. Awful commuter hubs for idiots to buy.
Don't get all misty eyed. There were a great many badly built old houses, many have been pulled down. There are also well built modern houses, but they cost more (surprise).
Our 10 year old place isn't too bad. Craftsmanship isnt great obvs but it's not let us down and it has a good deal of space, two big bedrooms and the third is a good double room too. And it has a garage.
Also doesn't need rewiring, doesn't need new plumbing, heating, wiring, windows or roof. Not only that but it's very well insulated both sound and heat. Far better than some old houses I've lived in.
Oh and, if they made the gardens bigger they'd get fewer houses on each plot therefore they'd cost more. Just saying.
These estates are deeply disturbing but what is far more disturbing is the fact that people actually seem to want to live in them, they actually aspire to the bland dull soulless existence of living in poorly built houses that all look the same.
Awful commuter hubs for idiots to buy.
Wow, great insight there guys, ever think that perhaps the people buying in these soulless commuter villages are just glad they could afford to buy something/ANYthing without having to move jobs/schools/families etc?
We went through this exact process, put offers in on several older properties, got blown out of the water every time. We were eventually GLAD to put money down on a Barratt shoe box in a field between a motorway and an airport...
Oh and, if they made the gardens bigger they’d get fewer houses on each plot therefore they’d cost more. Just saying.
not really - the land is priced based on the profit that can be made from the houses potentially to be built on it. If fewer houses could be built (due to planning regulations) the land would simply be worth less - cost per unit could be the same. Its not like the land has any other uses that put anything like this much value onto them.
However, its not just the developers pushing lots of housing in - dwellings per hectare of below 30 is discouraged (by planning) - with that said the average dph rose by 80% from 2001 to 2009 (that figure may be a bit spurious, as the mix of flats vs houses may have changed).
If a planning policy said 'no more than 20dph in new housing developments' - we'd have less crouded estates at the same price (some land owners would be sad) - but then fewer fields would be available to produce crops. Is that a good thing?
This has been under construction for at least the last 3 years near us, I drive/cycle past it every once in a while take a peek over the fences and wonder when it's going top be finished...
For the bargain price of A QUARTER OF A MILLION POUNDS!!! you can buy a 1 bed flat, a couple of miles from central Reading, next to a business park, overlooking a flooded gravel pit...
Millennials are basically screwed IMO.
Also doesn’t need rewiring, doesn’t need new plumbing, heating, wiring, windows or roof.
What, ever? Bargain!! 🙂
I find it odd that some people’s comments about the build quality and aspect of these new estates come from people who grew up/born in some of the 70’s/80’s estates, and before those some of the 50’s estates for moving people out of crowded cities...
You can’t have it both ways.
Build what people can afford, because there are no council rented schemes anymore.
Very easy to change the law to make new housing more affordable. Some of the Labour Party polices on this make a lot of sense eg allow councils to buy farm land / green belt at a modest multiple of market rates for farm land and then build council houses rather than putting the green belt in the local housing plan, watching the price per hectare 20 fold over night and pricing everyone out except commercial rabbit hutch developers.
Kit Malthouse, predicted that many of the boxes being thrown up on the outskirts of towns would soon be “ripped down and bulldozed” as unsuitable.
Using this terminology "boxes being thrown up" just shows a lazy POV
I've lived in old and new houses - do people really think that your typical 1930's semis or even your 2up 2 down Victorian terraces i.e. affordable family homes for the masses at that time are better built/"more solid"/bigger than a typical modern 3 bed family semi-detached?
It seems that when a lot of people think of old houses and how great they are, they think of substantial terraces with lovely tiled vestibules, high ceilings, period features etc etc - whilst lovely, these are certainly not cheap prospect for a lot of families. Also, was parking really that much better than what we have now?
Agree about housing development or rather new town design though - could be much better.
East of Southampton is a mix of quite bad to terrible new developments. Lots of 1 parking space family homes; in an area that is poorly covered by public transport.
One estate has 'covered parking areas' basically an integrated garage with a garage door sized hole, front and rear, but no doors. How useless. Apparently this is a tax reduction?! It's obvious to me that in a few years time people will be parking in their own back gardens!
And pedestrian access hasn't been thought of at all. I see people jumping the fence to get to get to the supermarket. All it needs is about 2 meters of pavement to join it up, it's not a long way round in real terms but people are lazy - and just want to go to the shops.
Most of the new estates have some green areas and parks for kids. Can't think of one that's got a shop, a library, a school or anything though.
the covered parking area thing is probably a good idea - it means people are likely to actually park there, rather than fill it full of bikes & crap and park on the road instead
I’ve lived in old and new houses – do people really think that your typical 1930’s semis or even your 2up 2 down Victorian terraces i.e. affordable family homes for the masses at that time are better built/”more solid”/bigger than a typical modern 3 bed family semi-detached?
My house is 150yrs old. I fully expect to still be there in another 150yrs.
I don’t expect the new builds on the edge of town to last that long.
My house is 150yrs old. I fully expect to still be there in another 150yrs.
How many 150 year old houses are they building these days?
FWIW, we live on a small estate of 1930s houses. There's no off-street parking by design. Many people have converted their front gardens, but not an option for us (we live behind a very small green).
It was clearly thrown up* when it was built but is still here, so I expect the houses being built to code today (where they actually are meeting the code) will last at least 100 years.
* we know this because we've removed a lot of it and replaced it with steel.
ooohhh so this is where all the people that had their houses on Grand Designs hang out....
Some awesome expertise on show. Can anyone tell me how long/short new houses last until they fall down?
Full disclosure: My house is four years old, small front garden, good size rear, parking for 3 cars off-street, 3 decent sized double bedrooms and one single, a car will* fit in the garage. Older houses in a similar area for similar money need a huge amount of updating as they all look like they were last touched in the 50/60/70s
*assuming your car is very small
What I don’t understand is where are all these people coming from!?
molgrips
Ladies wombs, mostly. Population is increasing I think.
We are gaining lots of people from abroad, and they don't distribute evenly throughout the UK which is one of the reasons why for example Scotland has a problem with ageing population.
775,000 births and 597,000 deaths in the UK. Net population change from births/deaths: +178,000
627,000 people arrived and 345,000 left. Net population change from movement: +283,000
Data is from 2016.
Data is from 2016.
That's probably changed quite a bit since then... !! 😀
Some awesome expertise on show. Can anyone tell me how long/short new houses last until they fall down?
I might be wrong, but I think shoddily built old houses would've had similar issues to shoddily built new ones
I might be wrong, but I think shoddily built old houses would’ve had similar issues to shoddily built new ones
But they've either been pulled down or someone else has already fixed them by now, it's like natural selection.
I wouldn't risk buying a new home, but I know some people like them and are not fussed about garden size, being crammed into a new estate or the awkward little roads they're on.
We had a look at the various new developments that are going up around the Droitwich area and they all seem to be built on top of each other with no real outside spacxe to them.
Also..... why do they make the 3rd bedrooms so small... 6'0 wide is not bedroom size
But they’ve either been pulled down or someone else has already fixed them by now, it’s like natural selection.
That's a big assumption and my own house moving (back when still a teenager) says its not the case either. One 40 year old house avoided as it was twisted, another then needed it's roof (including all timbers) redesigned and replaced.
I wouldn’t risk buying a new home, but I know some people like them and are not fussed about garden size, being crammed into a new estate or the awkward little roads they’re on.
and thats just a silly generalisation to go with your assumption. I will concede that loads of places we looked at were also our idea of hell. OTOH, I might go down to the new pub tonight via various mature leafy paths, then return via other nice paths and the new 'village' shop.
What I don’t understand is where are all these people coming from!?
I believe Nigel has a theory about that....
It's all the EU's fault we have bland housing estate in the middle of nowhere.
Come Independance day we can go back to living properly, in mud huts, using stone based tools....
One thing i don't understand with a lot of new estates, and this is a generalisation and doesn't apply to all, is there a reason the roads systems are like a rabbit warren, with roads coming off other roads with little cul-de-sacs coming off them?
Is it simply trying to get "X" amount of buildings into a space? Any reason they don't build them on a grid-iron pattern or more simple street system?
Not having a pop, just interested...
Is it simply trying to get “X” amount of buildings into a space?
Partly yes.
It's also to slow traffic down in the estates and they also benefit from the optical illusion provided by curved streets which means that you can only see so far down the street in either direction which makes it look like there are less houses than there actually are.
Makes the estate seem less tightly packed to the punters who will then pay higher prices.
Also….. why do they make the 3rd bedrooms so small… 6’0 wide is not bedroom size
All architects are first-borns, and those who have reached the career backwater of housing estate design have a chip on their shoulder due to working longer for less money than their younger siblings. (my theory based on no facts whatsoever)
@percypanther thanks for that answer, now i know...
I shouldn't take the mick, i live in a small village with two roads, the main road is called "Main Road" and the lane that comes of it round the back is called "Back Lane" must have been a long meeting in the pub to decide them
is there a reason the roads systems are like a rabbit warren, with roads coming off other roads with little cul-de-sacs coming off them?
It adds desirability, because people want cul-de-sacs for their kids to play in. And it works - we live at the end of one such street and there are kids (including ours) playing in it all the time. If it were a through road this would not be possible. Only problem is that it's not flat which makes learning to roller skate quite hard 🙂
OTOH, I might go down to the new pub tonight via various mature leafy paths, then return via other nice paths and the new ‘village’ shop.
Our horrible estate is right opposite a strip of 200+ year old woodland, you can walk through lots of mature leafy paths. Only problem is (and this is the point of the thread, it wasn't meant to be a dig at the houses themselves or the people who live in them) they only lead to other houses.
Our 1920's built cottage isn't very well made. It's cold, and some of the windows and doorways are visibly off-square. Our previous 90's built house seemed much better built.
20's house has a shit load of outdoor space though, which more than makes up for the build in my eyes. Depends what you value and, as mentioned, do you really want modern estates to eat up all the greenbelt by having massive gardens?
Not sure most people want a massive garden, ours is large my modern standards and takes a lot of effort to maintain to a high standard (at least 1 day a week during peak growing season, mowing, weeding, pruning etc).
They are building nicely made houses with big gardens near me. They're all north of £500k. Better product costing more shocker.
Last time I came back to Kent I was amazed at numbers of houses being built.
I hate those estates with a passion but my bil and sil love them.
Did anyone see the Taylor wimpey ones in Peebles? Horrific, really felt for the folk that were left, god knows how you can properly remediate mortar with virtually no cement content in it.
footflaps
Member
Not sure most people want a massive garden, ours is large my modern standards and takes a lot of effort to maintain to a high standard (at least 1 day a week during peak growing season, mowing, weeding, pruning etc).
And luckily whenever these new estates are built the developers make sure there is enough space to build a playground for the kids. I mean, they don't actually build the playground. There's no budget for that. But there's a nice scrap of land for people's dogs to shit on.
I think one of the reasons developers don't build shops etc. (apart from the fact they don't have to) is the fact that most of the shops that were built into new developments in the 60s and 70s have long since shut. The demand isn't there to make them viable, same goes for the flat roof pubs often included in older developments.
As for older housing is so much better, really? Hundreds of thousands of terraces up and down the country, crammed together, no parking, little or no garden, poor access and made from Victorian materials (horse hair plaster) with no insulation or damp proof course.
As for older housing is so much better, really? Hundreds of thousands of terraces up and down the country, crammed together, no parking, little or no garden, poor access and made from Victorian materials (horse hair plaster) with no insulation or damp proof course.
Depends on the street I guess, but our Victorian terrace is well built, large gardens and dry as a bone. The workmanship, esp carpentry is way better than anything you'd see built now bar the very top end of the market.
The lack of parking has one interesting consequence, as you can't park your car on your drive or even guarentee a space outside the house, a car is useless as a status symbol; so you get a much more eclectic set of cars in the street - function over form.