[Closed] Blade Runner 2049

They laid it out of how K realised who the child was, they gave loads of flashbacks.

Sorry no, they don't at all set out how of all the 28y/o women on earth Dr Dreams is Deckard's daughter.

The only thing I can think is that on reflection, K decides that the Dr was excessively weepy when viewing the bullying/rubbish dump memory. Maybe he then thought she reacted like this because the memory originated with her. Fair enough, but far from conclusive. I'd have thought it more likely that she'd just had one too many gins at lunchtime and was feeling a bit emotional.

They do drink a lot don't they.

I still think the fact that Deckard's car has a drone in the first film is an internet shattering sensation.

Did I miss something in the original then? I don't think it's clear what is taken off the top of his car in the original film; having watched it many times, I always figured it was some sort of energy source or something.

The fact that they chose to portray the car in the modern film as having a drone doesn't suggest prescience on the part of the original but it is a clever piece of retrospective story telling.

Oh yes, all we know is that the original car had a loose roof panel. It might as well have been his Mr Fusion reactor cover.

I watched the final cut on Blu-ray last night and it definitely looked like a drone from the new one.

Sorry no, they don't at all set out how of all the 28y/o women on earth Dr Dreams is Deckard's daughter.

There was a huge hint event given by her of how it was going to reveal it was her. She announced that it’s illegal to use your own dreams but dream creators of leave traits of their own dreams in there. That’s why she cried as she seen her own memory in there just changed to a male as that as hiding the part that the female hand’t died. K thought he was still the child then as it was a real dream just not his, later on when they told him the child was female the penny dropped.

Ah right ok that's making more sense now. I had assumed (always dangerous) that the Dr would have been one of hundreds of dream weavers. If that's not the case and she's cornered the market then yes that narrows it down.

I had also thought that this specific memory was so deliberately placed (not as an emotional bolster, but to precipite just the events we see in this film) that a dream weaver could have taken it from Deckard/Rachel's child and planted it in one or more Replicants. Hence my misapprehension that the originator could have been any woman on earth of the appropriate age.

Your explanation does make sense though so thanks for that!

Ah right ok that's making more sense now. I had assumed (always dangerous) that the Dr would have been one of hundreds of dream weavers. If that's not the case and she's cornered the market then yes that narrows it down.

If I recall she mentioned there was more than one but he was aware of where one of them was so headed there. It would seem he was being guided all along to this hunt out the child hence why he has that dream implanted. Also the corporation was watching and listening thanks to his holographic girlfriend, it was her who pointed him to Dr Dream.

Hmm, if K is directed/guided to the Dr deliberately by Joi (who is herself programmed/monitored by Wallace), then that suggests Wallace knows the Dr is "the one". Which he doesn't.

I thought I had it, but I'm beginning to lose it again!

Saw it last night in Oslo. A great film - and best sequel I have seen - but the Norwegian subtitles were a bit off putting 🙂

I'm still waiting for it to sink in and will probably go to see it again but my immediate thoughts are that in these big sequels I wish that the director would stop slipping in references to the earlier / first movies in the franchise. For example the Priss look a like or the zooming in image technology stuff. There were also a couple of points where I thought it was a bit too 80s pop video

I watched the final cut on Blu-ray last night and it definitely looked like a drone from the new one.

Nah the new drone is quite flat with a bit of a keel, the thing they rip off the roof in the original (just freeze framed my way through that bit) is a rectangular box with a tube out the side. Though who knows how drone technology evolves 😉

Though who knows how drone technology evolves

Whatever it was originally in the first film, it now IS a drone. That's brilliantly clever. The new film changes the reading of the first film. I'm not sure I've seen that done before.

Joi knew about the horse dream so that’s why she said to find if it was real or not, Dr Dream is the one who makes the best dreams so did the one implanted in K that seemed so reall, probably why he suffers AI PTSD. As he knew she was the best he went to see her to get the dream checked.

Don’t over think films as they only have so long to tell a story they can’t possible cover everything and over explaining things in the film makes them look like a disaster movie.

Don’t over think films as they only have so long to tell a story they can’t possible cover everything and over explaining things in the film makes them look like a disaster movie.

Yep. I'm quite glad they didn't wrap everything up in a nice pink bow and hand to us on a plate. it makes for a better film experience IMO.

Okay I went for a second go...

I found a few more details, like the little Oriental bike gang, still pedalling road from the first film and the Pan Am and Atari advertising and again back to the original and the music seemed to work a little better

How many sequels will be made, will it get bled to death?

I don’t think there will be any more sequels, this one hasn’t done too well at the box office it seems.

I don’t think there will be any more sequels, this one hasn’t done too well at the box office it seems.

After the huge success of the first one at the box office you’re probably right. That and it’s done Ok just in comparison to some of the huge takings of the big blockbusters this year it hasn’t. They left the end very open and a few other unanswered questions but yes I don’t want to see it bled to death either.

After all the hype I thought I'd watch the original for the first time. It's an OK film with very nice visuals, it's not aged too well and sorry but over hyped. Harrison and Hauer were very good as was Sanderson, the rest of the cast were wooden enough to play robots well even if they weren't cast as a replicant.
I think I'll wait for Blade Runner 2049 to come out on the TV

Watched it on imax* last night.
I can't honestly see how they could have done a better job to be honest.
Jaw-dropping cinematography.
Pacing was superb - giving it time to really envelop you.
Captured the grime and mood perfectly. His apartment was a highlight.
Perhaps not quite enough street scenes.
Nods to the characters/clothing/cars etc all well done. Unnecessary probably, but well done.

I thought that Hollywood had forgotten how to make films like this.

Might be something about the fact I was 12 or so when I saw the original, but it feels like nobody has ever done the mega-city grime as well since.

---
* I was told it was filmed open-matte, so therefore the imax pic would be full resolution and uncropped, but I noticed quite a few scenes where this wasn't the case and they had done a pan&scan. Jaggies were noticeable in these. Still was fine at imax, but I will watch the 2.35:1 version next.

It was interesting to see that in the future Peugeot still have electrical problems with their cars.

Drac - Moderator

It was interesting to see that in the future Peugeot still have electrical problems with their cars.

There was a neon Peugeot sign earlier in the film too.

I missed the pan-am one. Atari was pretty cool though.
Any other Defunct ones?

After all the hype I thought I'd watch the original for the first time.

Some times you have to watch a film in the time it was made to really appreciate it's genius. The brilliance of 'Blade Runner' is that it is visionary; it anticipates a future that has, to some degree, come to pass. Who else in 1982 was talking extensively about climate change and bioengineering?

That said, the 'cult' status that it has earned tells you that a lot of people don't get or share the genius that other people see in it. That's one of the charms of a film like this; it's almost a tribal thing.

I don’t think there will be any more sequels, this one hasn’t done too well at the box office it seems.

I read that a lot of that has been to do with the running time. At three hours, you only have the chacne for one programme session an evening, which limits revenue. But I also guess that being that long will put a lot of people off.

At three hours, you only have the chacne for one programme session an evening, which limits revenue. But I also guess that being that long will put a lot of people off.

Plus the fact that it's of questionable appeal to half the population.

Presumably they'll be making a bit on all the re-watches of the original.

Plus the fact that it's of questionable appeal to half the population.

I don't know if by that you meant 'women' but I have also read that most of the audience have been male. I find that deeply ironic. Here is a film that focuses entirely on the subjective nature of existence and explore our experience of emotion and our ability to be empathic. I'd have thought the appeal would be across both men and women

Presumably they'll be making a bit on all the re-watches of the original.

It's currently showing as one of the more popular downloads on iTunes so yes.

I'm disappointed by the lack of disappointment

Harrison Ford on the franchise - what a minuscule part?

Better that way is it not rather than make another story around Deckard.

Just back from the cinema and disappointed. Too obvious about K's identify and the whole one eyed lady wasn't needed. The soundtrack was !!!! in comparison. The use of snow as opposed to rain in the original was a poor attempt to grab something I can't quite verbalise at 1am.

Thought it was brilliant all round. Really hope they don’t try and franchise it out though.

A bleak depressing monochromatic look into the future....

An apt sequel then.

Not as enjoyable as the first but a suitable follow up.

3/5.

I can't say I'd recommend it to anyone but a fan of the first..

Watched it this arvo, fantastic film. I was worried as the original is one of my faves. Loved it

Was brilliant! Made even more brilliant by the fact we saw it in the IMAX cinema, incredible bass and visually that film was superb

Absolutely loved it, perfect blend of cinematography, score, and acting. Even the missus, who has the attention span of a hamster, was enthralled. Neither of us had seen the original either, suspect we'll need to change that 😀

Just got in from seeing it. Thought the brilliant bits were brilliant, but overall way too long and dragged out.
But actually, better than I expected. Still too long though. This year's 'There Will Be Blood'.

I didn't think it was too long myself. In fact, it flew by, and felt much shorter than it actually was. I can't really think of anything I'd trim as it was all relevant.

[Spoiler alert]

Don't read below if you haven't seen it but I think it's been out long enough and enough discussion already on here that this is OK...

Went to see it last night, have to say I was impressed, visually stunning and with the perfect mix between scale and detail, the environments were not jsut believable but engrossing and truly felt 'real'.

Plot wise I enjoyed it, I think there's enough questions left open, but they also did a neat enough job of giving clues and explanations. One thing that slightly grated is that I wish they hadn't done the flashback scenes, part of me thinks it would have been better if these were left out sot hat the viewer was left to make the connections, but I guess this would have left a risk that people wouldn't have understood?

I also like the contrasting (to the original) idea that K was [i]known [/i]to be a replicant from the beginning, not only does set up his character well but it makes his journey of discovery even more poignant when he starts to think he [i]is [/i]real, and the implications of that to his own survival, coupled with the eventual realisation that he is not the child, love the twists and the turns of emotion that it instills if you really think about it.

I think the Joi character was interesting, and much deeper than it appears at first glance. The concept of an entirely synthetic relationship, form both sides, and whether that is real, and the differing mediums; human, replicant, digital, and whether any of that [i]really [/i]matters... it takes the whole 'what is real' question to another level again.

There's also some interesting juxtapositions with the idea that replicant life is in servitude, and 'less' than real human. Yet K has an apartment, life and privilege beyond many of those around him, especially compared to the orphanage/child labour camp. The intermix of replicant and human life is much deeper than the original film set 20 years before, yet there is still prejudice and he is still viewed as 'lesser'.

I also think his character hits an inflexion point where he goes from a life knowing he is a replicant, where his feelings are subdued, but he still explores them at home, almost like he feels that he shouldn't feel, but knows he can, there's a vulnerability to him 'acting' the part of a loving partner in a relationship behind closed doors after work, but then as the story progresses and he starts to think he might be born, it adds a legitimacy to his existence in hos own mind, he starts to [i]feel [/i]more and it's almost as he he starts to think that he now deserves to feel...interesting stuff 🙂

Could write much more too but have stuff to do!

I didn't think it was too long myself

Got to agree here, I think a lot of modern movies are too short and too fast paced, they don't give you time tor eally think about the cnovepts being raised or take in the environment. That's possibly exactly why they are so fast paced thinking about it... they don;t have enough substance to them so have to be fast paced to keep you interested.

A properly paced, movie with rich and deep topics will keep your interest for longer, and after you've left the Cinema too. In fact at time I found my self having to 'let go' of a thought as a scene changed, before I'd had enough time to wrangle it in my head, that kind of pacing is what will make me want to watch it again and be thinking about it later...

Went to see it again last night after viewing on release date and it impressed me much more .. I think I was able to enjoy the visuals and celebreality of it all much more. The visuals and sound are simply stunning in a decent cinema and it’s so rare that this kind of film gets made any more.

It's not going to earn a great deal in comparison with budget sure, its target demographic is very small and run time too long for the masses but as a piece of art (which is what a movie is right) it's right up there.
I’m going to give it another rewatch whilst it’s still on a bloody big screen and suggest that anyone else does as Blu Ray and 7.1 in your home still will not do it justice.

One of those rare times belief has been suspended for 2.75 hours and I have come away with all sorts of questions about how and what else happens in a fictional reality.

I’m fortunate (I guess) that i get to go to the cinema effectively gratis twice a week, but if you can id urge you to give it another go .. it's either much or even better second time around given your position on first viewing. Besides you will have to wait a long time for a rerelease on the big screen!

I loved it.

I can't claim to represent the views of all women, but I didn't find it overly sexist. I thought the point of his girlfriend being fake was quite an interesting point, and well made.

(Compare this to that dreadful Suicide Squad film, which is universally awful in it's defence, but notable for the point that the only female character spends the whole film talking like an infant and in her underwear, when all the men are wearing coats)

The Trojan Horse reference was very cool too.

I do wonder who this film is being marketed to - all the promos before the film were for stupid mindless comic book films.

[i] I can't really think of anything I'd trim as it was all relevant.[/i]

Thing that stuck in my mind was a lingering shot of the back of Joe's head. Seemed to go on for 10 minutes. One moment I was admiring the symmetry of his hairdo and then he turned slightly and I'm thinking, this is pretentious twaddle. Ok, so it was only one scene, but that it stuck in my memory as being too long, means it was too long for me. You may have seen deeper relevance to the back of his head and that's all well and good for you.

Oh yeah, plus I had some dick sat in front of me coughing every few seconds and fiddling with his hair all the way through. kind of takes you out of the moment. Hopefully the gf will want to go see it so I'll go again. Maybe.

P.S although I am still no clearer on whether Rick Deckard is a replicant.

P.P.S the one off note for me was the Matrix style crew of people wearing eye patches and long black coats, to get in the plot point about the One Girl Baby. My grannie could have written that better, and she's dead.

I'm not going to buck the trend! I thought it was about as good as it could be. Unrelentingly dark and dystopian, a grown-up's film, slightly uncomfortable in places and like other great films lingers in your mind with a touch of ambiguity.

Definitely an acquired taste not for most kids or people with short attention spans. I'll be watching it again.

[i]or people with short attention spans[/i]

It's nearly 3 hours long, so that much is pretty bloody obvious.

A week on and I have to say I've been thinking about this film more than any other in recent years.
I can't believe someone said that Joi was superfluous.
To me, their relationship and subtle transitions [i][b]are[/b][/i] the film!

[spoilers]
From the moment you think about why a replicant would need a fake partner. When you start mulling over how human he is in his needs. Then when he starts to think of himself as 'special' just like humans do and that she also sees specialness in him.
Then we mourn her loss because he/we bought into the thought that she was unique. Then the realisation he's not special and with the giant Joi, that every line she uttered was exactly what he wanted to hear. Even the death 'I love you'.

Quite depressing actually!

I was thinking about how easy it would be to make something like Alexa be slightly more flattering with slightly more memory recall and then how attached people might become to it. We're really in the stages of it being possible right now - in some ways we are already emotionally attached to technology - we just don't think of it as such.

[i]how easy it would be to make something like Alexa be slightly more flattering with slightly more memory recall and then how attached people might become to it[/i]

Yeah, first thing I thought when he started talking to her - like Alexa in 20 years. Really enjoyed that side of the film. Someone early in the thread complained about Joi's inclusion didn't they?

It absolutely could lose 45 mins, but whether that would be in keeping with the Director's vision is in no doubt.

A better way of looking it is could you tell the story better in less time? No doubt there, you could. It doesn't have to be Michael Bay, it just has to be more efficient with screen time.

But being a massive fan of Villenueve if not this film, he nailed the tone of Blade Runner and that is to be slightly incoherent, baggy, ponderous but thick in atmosphere too.

That's just what it is. It's not for me and I think thought it lacked momentum but Blade Runner's fans don't necessarily want this.

It absolutely could lose 45 mins

I nearly didn't go as nearly 3 hours seemed a long time. In reality it flew by and I'd have been happy if it was longer.

for an action film it's so nice not having boring extended fight sequences, to have characters you believe in and a plot that makes sense. Also no explaining of the plot by the characters!

I thought it was near perfect. I loved it.

By the way not sure this is correct

After the huge success of the first one at the box office.

Didn't the first one do pretty badly at the cinema but then grew into a cult classic?

That's what I thought.

"After the huge success of the first one at the box office."
Didn't the first one do pretty badly at the cinema but then grew into a cult classic?

Ahh, I iz stupid 😆

Surprised nobody has managed to explain the cruciality of the lingering back of the head shot yet.

Surprised nobody has managed to explain the cruciality of the lingering back of the head shot yet.

There wasn't anything else on the screen!

Eddies in the space-time continuum? Think about it - nobody else noticed..

All asleep probably.

I have no recollection of it. So I was probably deep in thought, or looking at something else on the screen.

I have a vague one but really don’t think it was that long at all.

Surprised nobody has managed to explain the cruciality of the lingering back of the head shot yet

What lingering back of the head shot?

I think he means on the balcony just before Joi went outside for the first time.

Gawd knows, but it was just one bit.. oh, I explained it in the earlier post anyway.

Movie was good but the soundtrack was a complete joy. Whole thing was fab

From start to finish,it was total immersion for me.
Fantastic and one of the first films in a long time that I will be going to see again.

[url= https://www.wired.com/2017/10/geeks-guide-blade-runner-2049/ ]It's how long?[/url]
Just for DezB 😉

[img] [/img]

You obviously haven't got the attention span to read my full post 😛

My brother actually went out for a smoke at one point and missed the *spoiler alert* ... "synced sex scene" 😆

(Can't read the Wired article as a pop up appears 😐 )

Thought it was awesome. First hour I'd give 10 out of 10. Based on the whole film I'd say 9. Was totally immersed from the first scene which 3d at imax had me mouth hanging open and wide eyed. Cinematography stunning and sound track great. Not many films have me pondering after but this left me thinking about a few things. Did think it felt rather set up for a 3Rd film but can't really blame them considering the costs these days.

Is deckard a replicant or is he human and therefore the child the 1st hybrid was one thing I was pondering....

Going to see it tomorrow, never usually sure what time I’m getting home, but should be an early finish so taking advantage and going to the flicks for the first time in over a year.
Really looking forward to it.

@ DezB - Captain Underpants 84 mins no back of heads.

Spoilers:

Watched it last night and loved it. Went having avoided threads like this but with the dread of it ruining the BR world in the usual Hollywood remake way. Pleased that it didn't; amazing scenes and soundtrack as has already been said. A few thoughts of my own on others' comments:

Also no explaining of the plot by the characters!

Actually, that was one little bit of disappointment for me. It was not over done but was still there and it just didn't need to be. The weird looking guy in the Replicants' library didn't need to explain "the blackout" like he did; K would have known the history, the viewer could have been left to fill the gaps with simple prompts about corrupt data and "the blackout" in a much more realistic conversation way.
All the flashbacks. Completely unnecessary unless you really aren't paying attention.

I think someone's already mentioned this but the 'army' of replicants stepping out of the gloom right on queue. Yeah. Didn't really fit with the tone of everything else for me.

Also, it seemed a bit too convenient that Joi happened to pick the Priss lookalike, simply because she sensed K liked her. Which gave Priss (what was her name?) the chance to plant the tracker...which just happened to allow 'the army' to turn up in the nick of time... which allowed the story to continue. Someone eluded to Joi being used/manipulated by Wallis to affect K but I don't think that explains the convenient hook up either ...unless I'm missing something.

I didn't notice a hole in the logic that lead K to conclude who the real offspring was so it's interesting to read some people saying it was an unfounded leap. I'm sure there was enough in the 'one-eyed lady's' speech to get to the same conclusion from what K had experienced up to that point wasn't there?

I may have to take a second viewing!

Oh, and I do remember the back of the head scene but any significance has totally passed me by!

And another thing, leaving the 'is Deckard a replicant' hanging again was genius in my opinion. I loved that scene; the arrogance of Wallis, the doubt / denial of Deckard, the childish sulking and insecurity of the 'favourite' character (again, don't recall her name).

Anyway, enough rambling.

Also, it seemed a bit too convenient that Joi happened to pick the Priss lookalike, simply because she sensed K liked her. Which gave Priss (what was her name?) the chance to plant the tracker...which just happened to allow 'the army' to turn up in the nick of time... which allowed the story to continue. Someone eluded to Joi being used/manipulated by Wallis to affect K but I don't think that explains the convenient hook up either ...unless I'm missing something.

Joi was being influenced externally.

Joi was being influenced externally.

Yep, I noted that other's have said that but I'm not sure why Wallis would set up that meeting using Joi. Or do you mean someone else was involved with Joi's manipulation?

Can’t recall exactly but she was being tracked and observed by Wallis yes, I also picked up on that she was being influenced by the replicants.

Now you've got me thinking! I wonder if there are any clues in the street table scene. He has Joi in his pocket and the parting statement when 'Priss' leaves the apartment, along the lines of "I've been inside you, there's not as much going on as you like to think there is"; the obvious reference is to them just being 'synced' but I wonder...hmmm.

chestercopperpot -
@ DezB - Captain Underpants 84 mins no back of heads.

For you -

Is deckard a replicant or is he human and therefore the child the 1st hybrid was one thing I was pondering....

Hmm, I always assumed that the Final Cut implied he was, but it's never been explicitly stated.
He could be a human implanted with false memories?

Loved the film and finally getting to read this thread.
🙂

Agree with the unecessary replicant underground, added nothing, jarred a bit.

Didn't think we needed to know who the child was either, tbh, but apart from that, spot on.

Avoided the thread until I'd seen the film tonight.

Bloody loved it. Amazing visuals, building on the original but having it's own feel. A believable world, bits of which are probably closer than we think.

Just enough nods to the first film for fans without alienating new viewers (loved all the piano stuff personally).

Yeah, the resistance was unnecessary (REALLY hope any sequel isn't a mindless mainstream action film focussed on their story), and the 'piecing it all together' flashbacks bothered me - I'd have preferred them to just have K and Deckard turn up at the lab at the end and have us put the pieces together ourselves.

I love the original both as a great piece of cinema and a meditation on what it means to be human, and 2049 continues both of those trajectories - reinforcing and building on the themes of Scott's film for a contemporary audience.

Is it just me who was straining every time the horse appeared to see if there was a mark on its head where a horn had snapped off?

I though Scott had explicitly said on the record that Deckard was a replicant? Cool of the new film to leave that hanging in the narrative world though.

Went tonight and would have to say It completely surpassed how good I thought it would be. Absolutely stunning visuals and the soundtrack was beautiful . The scenes just before he meets deckard were completely stunning. Fell in love with the girl wwho played Joi , what a honey. The story and ending were brilliant and Im wondering if there will now be a third instalment.

With last years Star Wars and this years Blade Runner its great to see Harrison Ford back doing quality movies.

Is Eddie on a Chesterfield?

Or is he Crazy Eddie?

Joi isn't being tracked by Wallace, but by Love. There's a massive tension between them and K is shown to be able to lie to his superior, so Love should be able to deceive her master too.

I wondered at the very end with the snow whether Dr Dreams was actually making all K's memories in real time & if any of it was 'real' from his POV at all.

So many layers...

Saw it the other day and thought it was a superb bit of cinema.
The missus thought it was obvious and "meh", but then she has the attention span of a fish.