[Closed] Black faced Morris men banned

Too long we've been hurting chimney sweeps feelings.

Surely they could just paint their faces a different colour that will achieve the same result but won't upset anyone?

Edit: I suggest purple. If you're going to prance about like a bell end, might as well go the whole hog.

If anything they should make sure that "Short Circuit" is never shown again, if they're unhappy about face painting.

Border Morris sides have done this for 500 years apparently to enable them to go unrecognised

I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't want recognised....

[quote=BillMC ]by the Shrewsbury folk festival for 'racial insensitivities'. Border Morris sides have done this for 500 years apparently to enable them to go unrecognised. Is this going beyond the pale?

Would a black morris man have to wear white face paint for the same reason?

Like 'they' would let that ^ happen

Is this going beyond the pale?

Would a black morris man have to wear white face paint for the same reason?

Do you know, I bet it's never come up.

apparently to enable them to go unrecognised.

That's just one of the reasons that's been suggested - the most agreeable to our modern sensibilities anyway.

Just because something's been done for 500 years doesn't give it a reason to carry on.

I reckon perchy is on to something. Green is readily available from army surplus stores...

Never mind about 'racial insensitivities' they should extend the ban to all morris dancing. What about 'cringe induced sensitivities' ?

Grown bearded men skipping together with bells round their ankles ? ffs

#Blackfacelivesmatter

is this the daily wail version of 'banning' i.e. just 'not booking them'?

Grown bearded men skipping together with bells round their ankles ? ffs

interesting starting point to consider 'tradition' though.

At what point does a something go from being something that just happens (i.e. beggars painting their faces), to a recognised cultural touchpoint, to something that must never change because 'Tradition'?

Should our traditions be sacred and held above scrutiny like religions often are? (by the religious, at least)

won't upset anyone?

Who has been upset? Or is it a bunch of people thinking that people should be upset by it? 🙄

These need banning next 😐

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Morris men officially rock.
Especially the green ones.
[img] [/img]

Those green ones don't seem to be "dancing" very much.

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Look at their clothing.... Undercover sniper Morris Men them. Hard as nails.

Is telling morris men not to put burnt cork on their faces a bit like telling women they can't wear burkinis?

Hastings green man.
The best day out.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hastings+green+man&client=ms-android-hms-tef-gb&prmd=misvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizjPfm6NzOAhWJWhoKHSywCokQ_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=559

apparently to enable them to go unrecognised

Solved, in an inclusive manner:

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It's culture. Obviously.

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Around here it was supposed to be a throwback to the mines and show grime, not a colour of skin.

The professionally upset will still be upset at something. Hoop skirts, maybe.

Unless there was a genuine racist reason for them originally painting their faces black, then I don't see why they can't carry on with their tradition. Anyone who is offended by some non racist face painting needs to get out more and find something to be properly worried about.

If the roots are in some way "racist", then I'd agree that some traditions need to be brought more up to date.

It's the difference between blacking up to look like a chimney sweep and blacking up to be a black and white minstrel - one is harmless, one is offensive.

Now we can all just quote different internet links to each other to argue which it is!

seems to be just tenuous enough a reason to post this:

Border Morris sides started during the miner's strikes, when the men had little money, but were afraid to be seen doing anything that might earn some cash or free beer, so they just enhanced the fact that as miners their faces were black from coal dust and went totally black as a disguise, and wore costumes of dark coloured rags sewn onto old jackets, jeans and boots, and their dances were/are much more 'robust' and aggressive, and a certain goth element has crept in as well, attracting many younger dancers, male and especially female.
To ban them for 'racial insensitivity' is not only insensitive itself, but quite spectacularly ignorant of the whole history of Border sides.

Goth Morris dancers? Sod banning, we need a cull.

As I mentioned above the black faces also represent chimney sweeps.
Basically any morris people not dressed in white are bloody good. Get somewhere to check them out.
The first Friday in December we will have some outside my shop if we can muster up enough beer.

Nah, they are called Morris Men because Moorish = blackamoor = african

By the way, why don't you get any Muslim or Jewish morris men?
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Because you have to be a complete dick to be a morris dancer.

The Bacup Coco-Nutters as seen above are meant to represent Moorish pirates who presumably were a bit darker than the average Lancastrian, and something to do with Cornish men who travelled north to seek gravy in the chippy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Coco-nut_Dancers

so they just enhanced the fact that as miners their faces were black from coal dust and went totally black as a disguise,

Miners in disguise eh ?

Here's some Tory supporters in disguise

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started during the miner's strikes,

So it is Thatcha's fault.

So did borders Morris sides start 500 years ago or in the 1980's?

Banbury Town centre! ^^^^

I always knew there was something dodgy about Dave 🙂

Crazy.
if the tradition is ancient then modern potential opinions are irrelevant.Any one offended by that needs to grow up

So did borders Morris sides start 500 years ago or in the 1980's?

Because you have to be a complete dick to be a morris dancer.

I don't understand why they use messy black makeup when the "black stockingette mask", which can be slipped over the head in a moment, could be used.

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It even comes with "odd" eyes and buckteeth.

I'm sure it would make morris dancing much more amusing and if anyone is offended it can removed and concealed in the pocket "as quick as a wink".

Obviously they need to change the name of the black stockingette mask to reflect modern 'racial sensitivities'.

This is a good article about it by someone involved in the scene. Quite balanced but explains how it's neither political correctness gone mad nor ignorant old buffers.

https://rs21.org.uk/2014/10/16/morris-dancing/

My mates a mummer, its a normal part of the show & costume. Its all storytelling. Anyone who's seen the Rushbearing round Sowerby Bridge will have seen him and it. A great show, not offensive at all. Well its not set out to be at least.

I've often wondered if the phrase "Pull the other one, it has bells on" has some connection with morris dancing.

Variation on "Pull my finger..."???

Would a black morris man have to wear white face paint for the same reason?
Do you know, I bet it's never come up.

My father is foreman of the [url= http://www.welshbordermorris.co.uk/ ]Welsh Border Morris Men[/url] ("beware pale imitations"). His brother in law is very much of Afro-Caribbean decent. My father has on many occasions encouraged him to "white up". However because he is a trendy London type he told my dad to folk off.

It's odd that frequently it's white people getting all offended on behalf of those who, more often than not, really couldn't give a shit.
Which is patronising and condescending, and offensive in itself.
It's implying that other races are incapable of working out for themselves whether something is actually offensive or racist, or whatever, and that they quite possibly don't have a sense of humour; one of the members of my brother's bike club dressed up in KKK gear for one of their bash parties - he's black.
I wonder how many white Guardian readers would get offended by his actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

This all sounds a bit familiar, it's the same discussions.

It's odd that frequently it's white people getting all offended on behalf of those who, more often than not, really couldn't give a shit.

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I ask myself would the place be better without a lot of contentious events (take your pick: blacked-up morris, hunting, shooting, corridas, grand national) taking place? I tend to think probably not, but then some people like prairies and that glowing warmth of being puritanical and scoring points en route. Middle class violence.
For 'taking offence', read 'self-righteous bullying'.

that glowing warmth of being puritanical and scoring points en route. Middle class violence. For 'taking offence', read 'self-righteous bullying'.

This is roughly what I imagine the debate was like when they started letting women join in / started getting bullied by women...

It's odd that frequently it's white people getting all offended on behalf of those who, more often than not, really couldn't give a shit.

That some folk can empathise is no real reason to mock them.

TBH its always surprising to see how many of the folk on here are stuck in the 70's and mocking those who challenge the gentle racism of a bygone time

TBH its always surprising to see how many of the folk on here are stuck in the 70's and mocking those who challenge the gentle racism of a bygone time

yes and it's a bigger issue than 'political correctness' IMO. Incorporating, but not limited to -

- should the almost completely white folk scene try to entice a wider audience, and if so is blackface compatible with that?

- is folk music/dance a living breathing culture that responds to changing times, or is it a historical document that simply echoes a bygone age and must never change?

- in an increasingly diverse society, are we ok with examples of the dominant culture dressing up as / perhaps mimicking the minority cultures for the lolz (as a cultural precedent/direction, not just based on whether person X happens to be offended or not)?

- etc etc

it's part of a fairly big issue, and I don't think that reducing it to a question of either common sense vs. bedwetting do-gooders or common sense vs. backwards middle England really pushes the debate forwards all that much

The complaint originated from one 'Jonathan Hyams' representing something called 'Fresh'. who are they? The 70s and 80s were characterised by many people campaigning against the NF, supporting the Anti-Nazi League and RAR, a much less comfortable experience than churning out patronising comments on the net about 'bygone ages'. Any of your friends get prison for their views and activities?

???

I did my turn on the front line of anti racism thanks for asking - did you - were you blacked up for the laugh?

......patronising comments on the net about 'bygone ages'.

Good point.

Lenny Henry thought appearing on The Black and White Minstrel Show was funny.

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Mind you he regrets it now :

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/lenny-henry-admits-regrets-over-6311582

So perhaps not such a good point after all.

There were some soldiers out on Hankley the other day with faces like the Morrris Dancers in the photos ^ and for the same reason - albeit practical not traditional. Really offensive but they had guns so we didn't challenge them. Just rode off shaking our heads