[Closed] Bizarre car question - A6 v Golf R?

and being that driving in the UK is really no fun at all,

I'm assuming you've never driven around Torridon/Assynt region? That's where the majority of my personal miles get clocked up and i definitely wouldn't call the driving dull 🙂

Loddrik, i actually spotted an M135i today. It's definitely growing on me. Looks much better in it's hooligan guise.

Haha! I love mine, frighteningly fast and I don't actually mind the looks what so ever, much uglier cars out there!

driving in the UK is really no fun at all

Hah.. rather depends on where you drive. If you are referring to speed limits, then driving in Germany isn't exactly what you'd call 'fun' - just lots of dickhead salesmen being dangerous.

If you can run the R then go for it. It's only 2 years and so long as you're in a sensible job with no risk of losing it and have planned to lose the money then so be it.

I bought a brand new GTi at 21 because I could and yes it cost a lot to buy, a lot to run and a LOT to insure, it was fantastic fun and something I don't regret doing.

I think, if I'm honest with myself, as much as I love the Golf, it's probably not the most appealing car to be in for 5 hours on a Friday night after work. Perhaps it would be ok for me, but not for my passenger.

That moves me back to a proper engine in something a bit more comfortable and practical...a 2008ish 335/535 or A4/6 3.0. I need to drive these. It's where my search started, but they're harder to get a test drive of. I'd jump at the chance of an S4/S5/S6, but the after market warranties are silly money compared to the 335/535.

That said, i was surprised at how comfortable the Golf R was around glasgow's less than perfect roads.

That said, i was surprised at how comfortable the Golf R was around glasgow's less than perfect roads.

My MK7 Golf is supremely comfortable and I've spent 4-5 hour stints driving in it with no issues at all. The suspension on the R will be harder but is well damped. With DSG it should become a lot better.

The RADAR cruise is a life saver on long boring motorway journeys.

Hah.. rather depends on where you drive. If you are referring to speed limits, then driving in Germany isn't exactly what you'd call 'fun' - just lots of dickhead salesmen being dangerous.

Interesting - the driving std is way better than the UK - on autobahns. They do get a bit ego driven at junctions ....

My MK7 Golf is supremely comfortable and I've spent 4 hours stints driving in it with no issues at all. The suspension on the R will be harder but is well damped. With DSG it should become a lot better.

The R can also be put into Eco mode, which i believe shuts down the baffles on the exhausts (or something like that, I couldn't hear him too well because i kept pressing the thing under my right foot that made everything go noisy 🙂 )

Once it's in eco mode it's actually pretty quiet too. Road noise at 70mph is a world apart from a 5 series or A6 though (obviously). Which is a concern for my passenger.

the driving std is way better than the UK - on autobahns.

😯

Admittedly, i've only clocked up 1.5k on the autobahn in germany/austria, but my impression wasn't a good one. Full of idiots and people half asleep. Granted, it's probably still an improvement on UK motorway driving skills! France on the other hand......

I have clocked up about 1.5 years worth of the autobahns - inc 1k in a day. The biggest danger is the out of germany people who outside lane hog. The Germans tend not to do it as a) the police are not impressed b) neither are other drivers. If you do it, they will not show you a lot of kindness.
Road rage is illegal(as is tailgating) - no gesticulations etc, so they just get one with driving. More than can be said about the std of driving here.

If you want really rubbish drivers then go to Belgium - they seem to have issues.

I got my Scirocco R earlier this year. Absolutely love it! Great just tootling along averaging c.32mpg, but it's at its best when driven. Crazy fast and puts a grin on my face every single day. When it comes to time to change the Scirocco I'll be tempted to have a look at the Golf R.

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I have to disagree. I reckon driving standards are better in the uk than everywhere I've driven. (N America, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria and Switzerland).

For what it's worth I have had a 2009 A6 3L diesel Quattro since 2009. It's the longest I've ever kept a car, and I recently decided not to change it any time soon. It's my first diesel, but the engine does seem to suit it well. I have had 2 litre diesel A6s as courtesy cars and there is a world of difference between the two engines.

I've had a number of 'performance' cars, but the A6 is just a great car for me now. It's big, comfy, quick enough 0-60 in 6.5 secs supposedly) so overtaking is simple, but it doesn't feel as if you need to drive it balls out all the time to justify its existence like some other cars do. Economy is pretty reasonable for a big car too.

Only you know how to balance your requirements, but I haven't regretted buying it at any point I don't think.

[i]I have to disagree. I reckon driving standards are better in the uk than everywhere I've driven. (N America, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria and Switzerland).[/i]

Totally agree.

What about an A5? I've got the 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro and it's superb to drive. Decent fuel economy and 0-60 in around 5.7 secs as standard. I've had an economy remap done on it and hence it's a bit quicker through the gears now plus it's around 270bhp. Tons of room in it as well. I had the mk5 Golf R32 and it's easy quicker than that and much cheaper to run.

An A6 is far too big a car to be getting powered by a 2.0L engine. Completely gutless from what I've heard. It does very much depend on how you like to drive your car as well though. I'm finding that I like the driving position in the Golf better as my wife has a GTD. My old R32 being a much smaller car seemed to go round the corners quicker. When the A5 does go though I will be getting an R but I would say that its a good compromise.

I'd jump at the chance of an S4/S5/S6, but the after market warranties are silly money compared to the 335/535.

Why bother with an after market warranty then. They are a load of money, rarely pay out in any case, and if you look after your car and maintain it properly (a big % of people don't) then why should you have problems? Modern cars rarely break for no reason.

FFS just get the Golf, the A6 is an old mans car and there's plenty of chance to be sensible later in life.

Ive not entirely being keeping up with this thread, but I am surprised that the OP is looking at £30k cars but doesn't know what he wants from a car. ie does he want a sports car, or something to get from A-B. Comparing the Golf with an A6 just does not compute.

I think, if I'm honest with myself, as much as I love the Golf, it's probably not the most appealing car to be in for 5 hours on a Friday night after work. Perhaps it would be ok for me, but not for my passenger.

It will be fine, I used to do similar in an mx5 and my passenger was over 6 foot. Buy the car for you not to make others comfy. Sure the Audi will be comfier but the Golf is hardly going to feel like your passenger is sitting in a side car.

Ive not entirely being keeping up with this thread, but I am surprised that the OP is looking at £30k cars but doesn't know what he wants from a car. ie does he want a sports car, or something to get from A-B. Comparing the Golf with an A6 just does not compute.

Try to think about it, or maybe even read the thread?

Most others have managed to get their head around the question.

Standards of driving in the UK are shocking. Its auto bullying depending on the car you are in etc. Woe to you if you use your horn or flash your lights.

In Germany only once did I encounter a prick- in a UK plate Skoda Octavia VRS who tailgated me.

Considering none of the cars the OP listed are exactly that exciting (being all, at best, warm medium/large saloons)

Late to the party, but I've always tried to go for experience over utility and I've never regretted it. Even managed to fit a bike or two in the craziest cars. I don't drive to work though and we have a nice enough Civic for family/long-distance duties, so my priorities are maybe a bit different.

Get the Golf, OP.

Just get the R, 5 weeks ago I bought a Mk 6 😀

Standards of driving in the UK are shocking.

There are more aggressive people here, but less of other problems like say, utterly insane young lads (France) total lack of concentration (USA) or 150mph cars on a two lane road (Germany).

I had an a6 Quattro Avant 2.7TDI, great car. IMO 2.0l is too small and engine in such a big car. I would happily get another (owned it 7years 100 miles virtually no costs except regular servicing was worth about 6k when it was sold). Over the years I've owned 6 Golfs.

Of the two cars you quote I would go for the Golf. If it where me I'd get a 2.0L diesel Golf rather than a 2.0L Audi, however through in a bigger motor and Quattro and then its advantage Audi.

I had an a6 Quattro Avant 2.7TDI, great car. IMO 2.0l is too small and engine in such a big car.

Not much difference in power these days, the 2.7 had a maximum of 182 bhp and 400 Nm of torque and the new 2.0 has 170 bhp and 350 Nm of torque.

Not much difference in power these days, the 2.7 had a maximum of 182 bhp and 400 Nm of torque and the new 2.0 has 170 bhp and 350 Nm of torque.

Do they really drive the same ? I appreciate what you are saying re the numbers but I would have to be convinced.

Would be interesting to see the torque curves I agree but just something to bare in mind.

What has happened to stw? Page 4 of a car thread and no one has said Octavia? There. I said it. Vrs TSI combi would be the size of the a6 avant nearly with golf gti performance. Is not the R.... But it's enough car that I'm surprised it hasn't been suggested before now. In bias though..... I collected mine last weekend :D. Oh....5.5 month wait on vrs.

Octavia is 2WD, the VRS just wheel spins in the wet, not in the same league as the Golf R or Golf R32 where you can use all the power all the time.

Octavia... Vrs TSI combi would be the size of the a6 avant nearly

Don't talk rubbish.

PS

I've got the 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro

I'm dead jealous, I think the A5 is one of few current cars that are beautiful, and I bet it's lovely with the V6. Always wanted to drive a V6 diesel.

I thought the Octavia was built on the A4 / Passat floor pan.

Another STW classic.

'Im interested in buying x or y, and only interested in x or y, so I'd like opinions on x or y'

Cue loads of replies suggesting a, b, c, d, e, f......

I've got the 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro

I'm dead jealous, I think the A5 is one of few current cars that are beautiful, and I bet it's lovely with the V6. Always wanted to drive a V6 diesel.

Err have you ever driven one though? Looks nice sure but but it's expensive, heavy, lacks steering feel and it pretty dull to drive. Still, with the V6 at least you'd not have any more problems loosing your place in the overtaking queue 😉

Err have you ever driven one though?

No, of course not.. not likely to either 🙂

I thought the Octavia was built on the A4 / Passat floor pan.

Afaik it's Octavia, Golf and A4 on the same chassis, and A6, Passat and Superb on the same.

Just checked the Audi website and it seems the 2.0 is now 190ps and the 3.0 low power version 205. Given that they are so close in power output there must be enough of a difference between the two to warrant making them both.

@molgrips I think it's the Golf/A3 (and some Seat / Skoda) which share the same chassis (A4/Passat I believe). Re V6 TDI my 2.7 was the old engine before the 3 and I was mightily impressed, pretty quick, 6 speed to work the torque, economical. 3.0 is supposed to be even better

@molgrips I think it's the Golf/A3 (and some Seat / Skoda)

Really, I thought the Octavia was a fair bit bigger than the Golf. Mind you I was comparing the MkIV Golf with a 2012 VRS, so different generations...

I don't think an A4 is as big as a Passat. I do however think an Octavia is as big as a Golf.

Well bugger me... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_B_platform

Looks like the Passat and A4 *used* to be the same platform, but now they are using one extendable platform for A4s, A6s and a load of other stuff.

@footflaps - I think it may be Octavia/Passat/A4 - so yes bigger than Golf

haha - someone will come along in a minute who actually knows

Audi tend to build "small" cars on a given chasis - eg Golf vs A3, A4 vs Passat

There is no way an Octavia is the same size as a Passat.

They can now build cars on the same platform (engine orientation and layout etc) but vary the wheelbase and track however they like. Interesting idea, and it'll end this comparison debate 🙂

@molgrips - just looked on Pistonheds - seems the Octavia is a stretched Golf floor-plan, ie bigger Golf, smaller than a Passat

Octavia is Golf/A3/Leon chassis. It seems quite a bit bigger than the Golf estate though, so not sure if it's just got longer overhangs or whether the chassis has been lengthened a bit.

molgrips - Member

Octavia... Vrs TSI combi would be the size of the a6 avant nearly

Don't talk rubbish.

molgrips if you're talking boot space then the Octavia wins.
Skoda reckon 610/1740 litres for the Octavia
Audi reckon 565/1680 litres for the A6.

I assume that rear legroom would probably be not quite as good in the Octavia.

MQB platform can be used for everything from Polo to Passat sized cars.

Anyway, I went for a lease this time (of the previous bargain 6-cylinder hatchback). Still very happy with it. I don't care if people think paying £9k for 2 year use is madness, I carefully tot up what my cars cost and think it's decent value. My last car was a Fabia vRS, bought at 6 months old with a huge amount off - ran for 2 years, still cost just under £7k in depreciation and other running costs. The Alfa 156 SW I bought at 3 years old was considerably more expensive than that.

I'd always bought 2nd hand, was going to wait a few years for this one to drop to affordable, but the lease deal was too good to pass up. If you're happy with the cost and conditions, no reason not too. Enjoy it for a couple of years, give it back, no worries about deprecation or warranties or other costs.

The numbers might say the 4 pot 2.0l diesel is making nearly the same as the 6 pot 3.0l but they are chalk and cheese. The 6 is lovely and smooth and wafts along on a wave of torque.... Errrmm you get the idea....

There is no comparison (or substitute for cubes).

@boblo - that would be my gut feel (ever since I had a 6 pot BMW 320 from a 4 pot 1800 Golf - more cylinders, more cc's)

Buy the R man!

Even though I drive a lukewarm hatch, and have planned on slipping into middle age with a boring 2.0 diesel estate, a large part of me would trade sensible for a hot hatch and few come hotter than that Golf. Buy it.

I would buy a car for the comfort of my passengers. I like driving people around, and I like them to be happy. Every time I see some stupidly souped up old Subaru rattling around with a thoroughly embarrassed and uncomfortable looking girlfriend in the passenger I chuckle to myself 🙂

I had an old style A6 2.0tdi (the higher output engine, was about 174bhp I think) and test drove a new shape one - the engine is *vastly* better and the car itself is lighter so the combination makes for a much better experience.

I ended up going for the 3.0tdi V6 though.

The whole leasing versus buying debate only really works when thinking about buying a brand new car because the biggest killer will be depreciation and on big cars like a 5 series or an A6 it can be terrifying. A second hand car will always be cheaper even with repairs unless it goes horribly wrong.

My step uncle has just got shot of is RS6 (08 plate) and in a year he took a £10k hit on top of the £7k bill a few months ago. That is pretty scrary, admittedly it's a very sill, fast car and people in this country are scrared of petrol. But I'd wince at that kind of hit.

Leasing protects you from the depreciation because it's not yours and companies like BMW and Audi are able to control the second hand market once the lease ends (e.g. the super cheap 135 leases have started to dry up now they've shifte a few).

Of the two cars that the OP mentioned, I'd go for the Golf R - it'll be more than comfortable for long trips but will be fun when you want it to be.

With regards to the other options, the E9X series BMW's are showing their age now. We have an E90 330 that I love, but the newer cars are much nicer inside (BMW seem to have stepped their game up here at last).

The one car that I really wouldn't ignore is a B8 S4 - the likes of Chris Harris reckons that its the best car Audi make at the mo. Fast, practicle, understated and just very good. They're falling to sensible levels so that should leave you enough to cover bills. I wouldn't bother with a third party warranty because they'll just wriggle out of it.

The one car that I really wouldn't ignore is a B8 S4 - the likes of Chris Harris reckons that its the best car Audi make at the mo. Fast, practicle, understated and just very good.

Funny you should say that...I did have a look at one in Glasgow Audi. But 23mpg will start to hurt over 20,000 miles 🙂

Funny you should say that...I did have a look at one in Glasgow Audi. But 23mpg will start to hurt over 20,000 miles

But they are supposed to be utterly brlliant to drive and live with. I can't imagine the the Golf will be a world apart fuel economy wise.

Out of the two I'd get the Golf as you'll have more fun in it. It has featured in a couple of tests in Top Gear mag recently so might be worth getting a back issue.

I'm just about to pick up our new car that will replace a couple of year old car that replaced a car I'd had for years and bought second hand. Having a brand spanking new car is simply very nice. Buying a second hand car, however tidy is not the same. If you can afford it, go for it. 😀

Molegrips. Octy combi boot is 610 or 1740 litres
A6 avant is 565 or 1680. . I don't think I'm talking rubbish and the figures agree.

Footflaps. As I said, it isn't an R, but it is a gti. Same power, bigger brakes ( golf performance pack ones as standard) and lighter.

Just putting it out there. I admit I may be bias, but the figures can be looked up by anyone.

I wonder how they've made the boot that big, having been in both an Octy and an A6...

30k budget? Sod the hot hatches and German luxo-barges.

http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2267665

That is a properly special place to be. Love my saloon.

Load area height is greater in pretty much everything vs A6 -low roof / high floor

Has your R arrived yet OP?

molgrips - Member
I wonder how they've made the boot that big, having been in both an Octy and an A6...

Or you could wonder how they've made the boot on the A6 so 'small'?
🙂

The Civic tourer (which could well be my next car when the time comes to replace) is 624/1668 litres boot space, so slightly bigger than the A6 with the seats up and slightly smaller than the A6 with seats down. But it's a smaller car.
Probably to do with better interior space for passengers, at the expense of bootspace.....

OP - get the Golf. You'll regret it, if you don't.

What you really need to think is what does the car say about you i.e.

Golf R = Tosser
Audi A6 = Granddad

Do you want to be considered either of these?

If you must have a silly car then get an Alfa.

To the OP. If I lived where you do and not the over crowded SE of England (plus spend most of my time on the motorways when I'm driving) I'd get the R and put up with it being too small occasionally. Big diesels are nice ("old mens cars":) )to drive but they are mostly in big cars and hence not handlers. Maybe a 330d x4 is about the nearest as a compromise?

The trouble with M5/RS6/E63 is that you can't fit towbars without compromising your insurance. Otherwise I'd be tempted. Always fancied a super quick estate.

dragon - Member

What you really need to think is what does the car say about you i.e.

Golf R = Tosser
Audi A6 = Granddad

If anything that view point is one of a Tosser 8)

30k you say, 328i/330d Touring would be my choice if new / nearly new

Footflaps. As I said, it isn't an R, but it is a gti. Same power, bigger brakes ( golf performance pack ones as standard) and lighter.

Just putting it out there. I admit I may be bias, but the figures can be looked up by anyone.

We had a petrol VRS as the wife's company car when I still had the V6 4Motion (pre-decessor to the R32). It was OK, but the 4motion wiped the floor with it in just about every way other than load space. I'm very tempted by the Golf R, but just can't justify blowing £30k, so will stick with the 1.0 Picanto for now as it only costs £32/month...

30k you say, 328i/330d Touring would be my choice if new / nearly new

Great [i]in four wheel drive version [/i]when you want to drive somewhere in the snow and ice

It was slightly tongue in cheek but seriously the back roads in Scotland are narrow, with kids, cyclists, sheep, deer, tractors, walkers etc, on them. Pretty much everyday has a horrific crash as the headline on the local paper and yet people want ever more mad cars to rag around them. Get your kicks on the hill or track IMO.

Heck even a standard 2.0l diesel Golf isn't slow, and will get you to your destination in more comfort than a lowered and stiffened 'sports' variant.

@tonyg - they don't do the Touring in 4wd and I'd rather drive an A6 Quattro than an X3/5. @timc was speaking of he rwd touring, my neighbour has a 330 coupe, he's been stuck unable to get out of our road for a week at a time in bad weather. Ditto neighbours with Mercs.

Footflaps I am vermently agreeing with you, its not an R.

I offered it up as worth a moments thought as it seemed to combine some of the fun of the R with some of the size and practicality of the a6 avant.

It has far less power than the R, fwd only and a bog standard diff with just a bit of eelectronics and brakes trying to limit slip...nah. It is not an R! It is a bit lighter and not too bad, but it isn't an R.

Apparently Skoda are asking new vrs owners about interest in more power and awd.... Maybe in a few years an octy R will appear.... But it isn't around now. For the time being it is not competition for the R and I'm not suggesting it is

@jambalaya - they do a RHD 3 series 4x4 it's called an xDrive.

jambalaya - Member
Great unless you want to drive somewhere in the snow and ice.

Not really a concern on Merseyside so i didnt think of that 🙂

Great unless you want to drive somewhere in the snow and ice.

they don't do the Touring in 4wd

the back roads in Scotland are narrow, with kids, cyclists, sheep, deer, tractors, walkers etc, on them.

Great unless you want to drive somewhere in the snow and ice.

Been in a RWD Merc for the last couple of winters. Cold weather/snow not really a problem at all with cold weather/snow tyres on. Whatever I replace it with will also have cold weather tyres put on.

@peter appreciate that but we the audi and golf will go up an icy hill with normal tyres.

Interesting on the x-drive, didn't know they did those.

appreciate that but we the audi and golf will go up an icy hill with normal tyres.

Not really a very good idea in Scotland in winter though, since it won't be able to steer or stop very well once it gets over the other side 🙂

(surely we can't have a winter tyre debate in June! 😉 )

I'd get the Audi, but going fast isn't really a priority to me any more.
I'm sure the novelty of out gunning most other cars on the road starts to wane eventually.

I've always thought lease cars a money pit but making a lot of sense these days. Our Galaxy, by the time it's paid off, will probably have cost the same as a new one on lease, & it will be worth chuff all to sell.

I doubt you'll be too dissapointed in either car op.
Go order one. You only live once.

dragon - Member
It was slightly tongue in cheek but seriously the back roads in Scotland are narrow, with kids, cyclists, sheep, deer, tractors, walkers etc, on them. Pretty much everyday has a horrific crash as the headline on the local paper and yet people want ever more mad cars to rag around them. Get your kicks on the hill or track IMO.

Tongue in cheek or not, that's still nonsense.

Anyway, has a question about buying either a hot hatch or an exec barge really gone on 5 pages? Peterfile is actually Hora and I claim my £5.

dragon - why are Golf drivers tossers......?
Yeah get an Alfa, brilliant idea 🙄
I traded my 2.0 GT TDI in for the R, yes it wasn't slow but jeez not comparable, also the R really isn't uncomfortable. Yes its stiff. You can also get ACC for the Mk7

Golf R without shadow of a doubt......but then I have a Golf R32 and it makes me smile whenever I get in the driving seat.........as for economy the new R with it's engine instead of the R32 is even more economical. Recent trip up to Scotland 470 miles each way cruise control set on motorway with some overtaking on A and B roads averaged 33mpg. Pootling round whilst up in highlands taking in sights sounds and smells got 35mpg.
I don't know if the new R has slightly smaller boot than standard Golf like my R32 to allow room for the 4motion etc. still big enough for two peoples luggage for a weeks mixed weather walking etc.

I'd get the A6, fwiw. Relaxed cruising rather than boy racering. You're not going to get tempted into killing yourself in an A6.

Despite not wanting another Mercedes, I've just spotted a C350 Sport Estate which looks great on paper. 2011 can be picked up for sensible money. Basically a (much) newer and quicker version of my current car.

More torque and better mpg than a 335d? Sounds like it should be in the right ball park... 🙂

Worth a look I think.

Oo oo oo!

Peter, I went the other way. I sold my 335d coupe with detactable towbar and bought a 2010 C320cdi sport estate.

My 335d was remapped and fantastic, I've left the Merc alone and it's fabulous, not as fast or economical but surprisingly compentant and dynamically good. Plenty of toys and space and at £11k with full merc service history and 67k on the clock it was a veritable bargain.

I've done 12k miles in 3 months and I now really love it, especially in sport mode. Loads of space, always comfortable and looks great with the AMG kit.

I don't envy your position, I go through something similar everyday on cars but think a fast, auto diesel estate is the best compromise.... Until I can my mind again! 🙂

Best of luck to you!