[Closed] Bit of a sensitive one - scamming and minors, what to do?

I hate to say this but My guess would be that it’s probably the same “Cheryl” from your other post but with a new persona and profile. As such you’ll probably never hear from them again, well at least not in their current guise.

Is she definitely a real person? Sounds like it could just be a professional scammer posing as a young girl. In the wild west of the internet I can't see you getting the money back, unfortunately.

Edit: ah yes good point from the above poster. Quite likely I'd imagine.

If you know the school I would approach the headteacher with the evidence and background.

If there is a young girl scamming vulnerable people out of money they will be in a good place to sort it out, and advise you on next steps.

If its a made up front by someone else posing as this girl then they will be in a good place to find out, and help the girl with online safety.

I would not be approaching the girl myself.

Either way I'd be surprised if you get the money back.

If you know the school I would approach the headteacher with the evidence and background.

There is a very good chance that the girl knows nothing about it and its a stolen / cloned identity so going to the school would have to be done very VERY carefully.

If you are set on chasing it and not letting it go...do you have a physical address and real name?
If so you could write a "notice before action" letter and get her to agree a payment plan. If no good, money claim online is fairly cheap and easy. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

It may well not be the same scammer as before, but details of vulnerable scam victims are very much shared and sold online, so there will almost certainly be more attempts. It may be worth trying to change phone no, email, facebook etc accounts that were shared with the original scammer to avoid this.

I don't think there's much there for you to do and it is likely another write off. It's unlikely to be a real person, the nature of how they asked for money isn't realistic.

You have control on the account and that's as good as you can hope for in all likelihood. You mentioned your son is dyspraxic but (as someone with some heavily dyspraxic family members), getting stung by social engineering scams isn't really something that should affect, in the nicest way possible, are you sure there isn't something else at play?

Theres a very strong chance (actually probable, I think) that its the same person as last time.

And not the person in the photographs/whose name address and school you have.

Tread carefully.

Not to have a go at you but it sounds like you might also be a little naive about the world of online scams etc also.

Maybe both of you could try and find someone to give you training on spotting scams etc?

Wow, I feel a bit dumb now. Had just assumed it was a real person as I fairly easy found her school and town. But yes, it happened exact same time as 'Cheryl'. Plus my eldest son (who's pretty savvy and been helping me) was very surprised at her Instagram user name as he couldn't fathom why it was complicated Vs her the (possibly) cloned girl's name.

I do find all this scamming deeply depressing, but thanks again so much for the insight above. Time to take my dogs out, they're simple and happy beings!

You mention you've got monitoring on his accounts. Are these his bank accounts or social media accounts (or both)? I've no idea what's possible in terms of keeping an eye on his social media, but it might be worth looking into to?

Forgive me, but have you actually sat down with your son and gone through basic cyber and online security and safety with him?

The NSPCC and the National Crime Agency have some good resources, that while aimed at younger children may be suitable for your son given his naïveté.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/online-safety/talking-child-online-safety/

https://www.thinkuknow.co.uk/

Scam and theft, report to police. That's pretty much all you can do.
Imagine if she is real and reports you as harassing her for money. Damn sure the pitchforks will be out long before the true story

Your son will now be on a s "sucker list". I.e. people who are suckers for scams and targeted.

Make sure all his accounts are set to private. If possible suggest he purges the random not real friends /contacts and changes the name of his accounts.

I think both of you need to do some reading on scamming techniques. In addition I would be wary of putting it down to dyspraxia. Its just as likely or arguable more so its just naivety.

Not an area i have any experience in but i can see how these scams happen, just like the guy knock doors targeting old folk to clean their gutters / repair the roof.

I get quite a few unsolicted notices on socail media and email for all sorts from sex to bitcoin.

Call the police, report a scam. do the social media platforms have any fraud reporting? again not something i've ever looked into.

I'd say close down all his accounts, email etc and reopen new ones that are clean. He's a known target now and i bet other sob stories will appear and don't give out your details, they now have info about you.

Sorry to hear about this it must be gutting knowing that he is being exploited. As said above i think you both need some education in online scams etc.

Thanks all. We've deleted old accounts/email etc. New ones I have access to, bank and social media. Been through it with son at length, and he's gutted, but does tend to view the world v simply, so no lasting impact. Probably more so on me! But we're working together to make sure it doesn't happen again.

It's fraud, go to the police. They likely won't do anything of any value, but it might help towards a profiling which could prevent it from happening again.

Talk to the bank, see if there's anything they're willing to do to refund / recover it. Again, probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.

And finally, if he can't be trusted to manage his bank account or his online presence in a safe way, stop expecting that he can. "Fool me once..."? He seems to have a lot of money to give away for someone who has no money. How about setting up a second account fed by a standing order to give him a weekly / monthly allowance rather than full access to everything, maybe?

my son only earns £4.50 on a 47hr week.

Minimum wage for a 19-year old is £6.something, unless he's in the first year of an apprenticeship.

How about setting up a second account fed by a standing order to give him a weekly / monthly allowance rather than full access to everything,

+1

I'd be looking at heavily policing my sons access to the internet.

First thing would be deleting all his accounts and opening new ones, marked as private. As said, he's on a "sucker list".

After that - you need to see what you can do about monitoring his spending.

I've no simple answers.

The whole thing smacks of an identity theft scam, innocent girl at school gets her account cloned with a different name posing to be her.

You then engage the scammer who draws a lot of money through little amounts out of someone gullible and volunteers all of the "correct" info as they know there's no come back on them, they then promise you whatever you want as again, it throws you off and buys them time before you report it.

only thing you can do is collate all evidence and go to the police, the girl in question seems as if she would be just as much as a victim of this as your son.

Unfortunately scammers don't give any concern to who they hurt, upset or if anyone is vulnerable, they deliberately target the vulnerable as they are easy targets.

I work in a bank in compliance and used to investigate fraud cases, some of which make your blood boil.

Thanks again. I think/hope we've done much of the advice - i.e. shut down all his old media/bank/email accounts. Opened new ones where I have access. Bank account money is limited, and wages come to me. He's first year apprenticeship hence the low wage.

Yes, he had some of the money he's lost (he's a brilliant saver, so his money is accumulation from years of PT working), but, much of it was money from a joint business venture I was doing with him to give him a future career plan. Agh! Spoken with authorities/FCA, and will pursue re this girl's possible identity theft.

And yes, he's been gullible/daft/naive, still is sickening. He's really grafting now to repay which is a bit heartbreaking too.

How did he send the money to her(him?), there must be some sort of paper trail?

I think you need to speak to the police & bank.

[edit] sorry missed your last message. Best of luck with getting it back, it’s awful.

I think you need to speak to the police & bank.

if not done already then yes report to the bank, they can try and claim the money back if transferred however they need the approval of the recipient account to withdraw funds otherwise they stand no chance, if it is a scam then these funds will have been withdrawn and wont physically be there to send back, nothing the bank can do unfortunately.

In the grand scheme of things i would count yourself lucky that you found out when you did, otherwise this could have been a lot more over a longer period of time.

The most important part is educating him as much as possible so this doesn't happen again.

I would just add don't you or him feel too bad. I think anyone can be suckered in, it might just to be a case of timing that catches you. My Mrs was very close to being caught as by chance she had a phone call just after having made a payment plus she was in a rush and it was one thing they did that made the penny drop and she was able to recover the money (first small transfer) as she reported it "mid scam".

£4.50 on a 47hr week

Minimum wage for a 19-year-old is £6.56/hour.

*unless he's on an apprenticeship scheme, when the law allows unscrupulous employers to get cheap labour at the apprentice's cost.

He’s first year apprenticeship hence the low wage.

Minors?

Since when is a 19 year old man a minor?

😁

I'm going to sound harsh on this but not meant in a mean manner.

Don't not bail him out, he's 19 and needs to learn how many low paid hour that is. It will be a life lesson, no real harm done other than bank account support yes (take to work or pay for buss fair), just don't replenish the account.

At 19 I was working weekends and hols lending my mum money for the mortgage on occasion. I know time and situations are different but still.
Also remember buying an expensive speaker for my stereo and blowing it up instantly think I ended up crying as worked very hard for it but learnt to value things.

Again, thanks all.

Re the 'minor' - this was or possibly is the girl he's lent money to (assuming she's real), still at school we think. And a bit more digging suggests she's real and not connected to the Bitcoin/Cheryl issue, we think.

As per a comment above, I'm considering contacting her school to raise the possibility her identity has been stolen and part of a scam, and this way, it might chivvy her (if she has indeed borrowed the money) to get in touch and talk about how she'll pay it back.

We're not bailing him out, but we are supporting him and he's not asked to be bailed out. He's grafting really hard, not spending and paying back really diligently. So hats off to him for a good attitude.

His wage has just gone up to c.£6.50 as he's just completed his first year of his apprenticeship (not sure his employer and generous are a natural pairing!).

I feel for you - but even is she did "borrow" the money, she is going to say it was identity theft.
I would officially report it - to the police and perhaps the school. However with the school it is likely you will never hear what happens as they will try and protect the kid.

If you google then name, does it come up with anything?

As as been mentioned, Not So Junior Aus is now on a sucker list. He needs to lose his old identity and develop a new one. And he also needs a reality check. Can he not be encouraged to talk to you / his bro before sending random people money?

At 19 I was working weekends and hols lending my mum money for the mortgage on occasion. I know time and situations are different but still.

Did you have Dyspraxia too ?.

We’re not bailing him out, but we are supporting him

Well done, and if I may be so bold, as a parent should do. Dyspraxia is a bad condition to have as a child gets older, especially if there are any related conditions like ADHD, Dyslexia or Autism.

She instantly replied that she would pay it back,

If this girl is real then she's just admitted to a contract and is liable to pay it.. Not sure how that works if she's a minor though.

Given the circumstances is it possible you can have some kind of power of attorney... So if your son makes any online purchases or bank transfers you get alerted by the bank and can allow or deny the transaction?

Not an ideal solution and not sure if the bank would be geared up for such an arrangement.

Thanks again. I think his brother and me and young son are working well together in terms of getting him to understand the situation, that the world can be a tricky place, not everyone is nice, and money needs to be looked after. He's being positively cooperative with stuff we've put in place to help monitor and guide him, wages come to me so he effectively gets pocket money, big bro has been great too. So we're trying.

Sucker list - we hopefully have given him a new identity - I have his old one and quite right, he's getting pinged regularly with fantastic offers and opportunities!

Not sure I want to get the police involved with the young girl - maybe I'll try the school first. After all, son willingly sent her the money, so he's been a muppet too.

Thanks dyna-ti, as a parent, all I do is try hard! But it's extra tricky when someone's brain and perspective is maybe not quite like your own.

If the school has any data protection staff worth their salt they'll ignore any of your requests and refuse to confirm or deny the existence of said individual at their establishment.

If it's a suspected crime take it up with the police and let them sort it out.

No practical advice form me, other than don't let it get to you, my sympathies are with you.

My similarly naive/trusting teenage son lent/gave half the money in his bank account to a girl he was friends with online (a real girl, friend of a friend but he’d never met her in person). I only found out by accident. He said he’d lent her some to buy her mum a present, then given her more to cheer her up as she was sad.

I contacted her mum, sent her screenshots of the transfers and she paid it all back into his account immediately. Mum was mortified.

It may be connected to the Bitcoin scam, but it may equally be entirely separate, be a real person, and if it is a juvenile they may have parents equally horrified and willing to resolve it.

This could be an angle that's worth pursuing. Maybe worth contacting the watchdog? Long shot I know.

Social media sites such as Facebook and Instagram serve as a “gateway” for fraudsters, the City watchdog has warned, as it demanded they take tougher action on financial scams.

While the Financial Conduct Authority praised Google for having changed its terms for financial advertisements this month, the regulator’s head of enforcement said other tech firms were lagging behind.

“Social media sites are effectively a gateway in which scammers are getting access to vast numbers of people in the population through online searches,” Mark Steward said during the FCA’s annual public meeting on Tuesday.

“We are putting them on notice that we expect them to be involved in this process of protecting the community,” he said, adding that the FCA would otherwise “have to take action”.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/sep/28/social-media-giants-serve-as-gateway-for-scams-warns-finance-watchdog