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FM at my wife’s place will happily sit behind a glass door waiting for 8:00am while people stand outside in the pissing rain.
In honesty, I don't work in FM but I'd also be going to lengths to make sure I looked as warm, dry and comfy as possible through that door then greet everyone with a chirpy hello, how are you, horrid weather isn't it as I let them in.
OP, it's rubbish but the only thing I can see coming out this is grief and blood pressure meds. Also given
Consultation and Fire And Hire is being waved around like a Bhudist prayer flag.
From the fence thread, I'd perhaps be doing just about everything I could to keep my head below the parapet at this point.
FM at my wife’s place will happily sit behind a glass door waiting for 8:00am while people stand outside in the pissing rain.
there's a fair chance that's because of insurance purposes i think? Happy to be corrected though.
Thanks to everybody for the comments. My blood pressure, I suspect, is up at the moment and I will only feel worse if I don’t do my best to get my locks or there replacement.
I swallowed my tongue when they decided that my locker should be their locker and moved my stuff (full change of clothes, shoes, wash kit, towel and kindle) out and put their stuff in. I couldn’t say what thief stuff was as they changed the combination. Not only that, they pissed about trying to remember which was my new locker that the cleaners went into the shower room and I had to stand outside for 30 minutes in my bike gear until they had finished!
Ps. Thanks for the free legal advice Jakester.
Ps. Thanks for the free legal advice Jakester.
LOL, who said it was free? I'll send you my bill shortly*... ;-P
Good luck!
*this is quite clearly a joke for those on this forum with a sense of humour bypass..
Monksie has effectively abandoned his possessions
No, 'abandon' implies he was going to leave them and not come back for them. He's left the lock there with the intention of returning. What evidence does his employer have, given the furlough situation, that he has no intention of coming back on site?
Monksie – but what recourse do you expect? What legal grounds?
If they've merely removed his personal property that wasn't locked to anything then it's theft, no?
If they have wilfully destroyed his property without prior warning in order to remove it then that's criminal damage. It's the same reason why you can't bolt-crop car wheel clamps.
You appear to me missing the fundamental point that there was no prohibition against storage of items in place. Therefore OP is entitled to make reasonable use of his employer’s private property in accordance with the terms on which it is granted to him.
Quite. By this argument, they could crop the lock during the afternoon and take his bike.
Whereas I would see it as the employers defense would be ” this lock was abandoned on our property so we removed it”
It was not abandoned, if I've read this correctly it was irretrievable due to the site being locked down.
I think you are all missing that he has no right to leave the lock there on the employers property. Its as simple as that.
So if he went for lunch and someone sodded off with the 'abandoned' rucksack under his desk that'd be fine?
“We accept no responsibility for property left in public areas.”
It's not a public area, it's a workplace, is it not?
Know what I'd do?
I'd claim back a replacement on expenses. If I were providing my own tools to do a job and they broke whilst at work I'd expect work to replace them (this has actually happened to me). You were supplying your own lock for your commute and it's disappeared, it's only right that they should be replaced. It's a loss incurred directly as a result of you working there.
Whereas I would see it as the employers defense would be ” this lock was abandoned on our property so we removed it”
Had he been sacked? Voluntarily left the company? Died? No, to all of those questions, so the property had not been abandoned, any more than any other personal property left on desks, in cupboards, or drawers or lockers, because the owners were temporarily unable to access the premises due to a pandemic.
If the cycle racks were in a public place, then leaving locks unattended is likely to result in them being removed, as signs on public railings point out, which is perfectly fine.
But on private property where people leave personal possessions unattended at weekends and when on holiday, there is a clear expectation that if the company locks everyone out due to a global pandemic, their property should remain in place untouched, as it hasn’t been abandoned!
...The locks combined are going to cost around £120...
Hmmm, I think that's the real issue innit?
You've gone and left 120 quid's worth of stuff lying about outside for four months (on a business park?) and, perhaps not all that surprisingly, it's gone missing...
You knew full well it wasn't a great idea, had it been a cheaper lock you'd maybe not be getting so animated? But as it is you're going to go both barrels after the Estates gibbons because you left some expensive kit lying about to be taken/moved.
I'll be honest, If I used a hundred+ quids worth of lock(s) at work (probably more than my commuter bike is worth TBF) I'd have taken them home every night, or at least on a Friday.
This company is so risk adverse that you get hauled in by your manager if you’re spotted not using the handle rail on the very shallow, not many stairs on to the mezzanine.
SSE?
OT, but I have nothing positive to say about SSE.
They disciplined members of their staff for putting out a small fire with a fire extinguisher due to not having the bit of paper that says that can work a fire extinguisher.
Cookeea. Not are you only making huge assumptions (which are wrong) but you week to be making up your own little situation and are replying to it❤️😀.
I hadn’t “gone and left 120 quids worth of stuff lying about outside for four months on a business park and I’d say it really is quite surprising that they’re no longer there.
They were I n use, by me, 5 days per Week. They were locked (clues in the name) to a Sheffield bike stand. Same as many others. I was forbidden to return to the site by my manager when it was announced by my employer that the whole site was closing immediately. Without warning.
No business park. Just a very large, very secure building with a huge car park. No other business anywhere near.
I knew full well * what * exactly was not a good idea? They were good quality locks. Securely fastened to a bike stand I use almost every work day. By definition, I assumed they’d be OK as they were good, substantial things ‘locked’ up securely. They must have used full bore angle grinders to break them.
Why would I take them home every night? *They’re heavy. They’re secure. I needEd them exactly where I left them the night before....
Sorry that real life doesn’t match what’s in your head.
* or they were
I'd be debating whether its better to attempt to get them to replace your locks quietly, or try and contact all the other cyclists and get them join forces for some mass action. If you all drove in as protest would that cause facilities and other workers a problem with lack of spaces?
Can you raise an official grievance against someone in facilities? All in all I would pursue it on moral grounds and keep an open mind that it may not go anywhere but at least you'll cause enough aggro to make them consider their actions in future.
Any chance they lifted the sheffield bars out to slip all the locks off without cutting them? I think I'd rather break up a bit of concrete than cut off however many locks. If the locks are still lying in a corner you've probably got a much better chance.
Finally, got a union? Mine are useless but may as well try and get your moneys worth out of them...
Security guard syndrome is a thing.
Why is everybody resorting to legal arguments here? Removing them without notice (at a time when people cannot get back on site to retrieve them anyway) is clearly unreasonable.
Also - for what reason? They weren't obstructing anyone..... the site was closed, nobody was needing to store their bike but couldn't. Why knowingly destroy peoples property for no benefit? As I said: security guard syndrome.
I would be requesting the cost of a replacement lock, and politely suggesting that if they don't want people leaving locks in the shed they should spend 5 minutes putting up a sign, instead of god-knows how long grinding them all off, pissing of god-knows how many people in the process.
Well worth the 5 minutes that it'd take to send that email IMO. I would have sent it already.
try and contact all the other cyclists and get them join forces for some mass action.
LMAO.
Removing them without notice (at a time when people cannot get back on site to retrieve them anyway) is clearly unreasonable.
Basically, the OP can ask for an explanation and say he believes the company was unreasonable. The company might agree and replace the lock, or they might say that they were completely within their legal rights (or they might just refuse to even discuss it at all). In that case, it's not worth pursuing, so best thing to do is drop it and move on. Unreasonable doesn't mean illegal, and even if it was illegal, it would cost so much to pursue that it's not worth it.
I can understand why the OP is pissed off and if I were in his situation I'd certainly be writing an email requesting compensation - however if they refused I wouldn't pursue it further, you'd be mad to against your employer. Sure they can't just fire you over it but lets be honest it's pretty easy to manage people out especially if you aren't unionised.
Just 'liberate' £120 worth of post-it notes, notepads and biros when you start working from the office again (gradually of course :p ).
Playing devils advocate somewhat here but, do you have a named slot on the bike storage where your lock was located - or did you put your lock in a position where it wouldn't hinder anybody else wanting to place their bike in the same place and secure it ?
I'm not surprised that the company removed it tbh but would have expected some warning first - or something in your contract that say they have the right to remove personal belongings from certain areas outside work hours etc.
Whilst I don't agree with it, £120 worth of locks isn't worth getting stressed over. Lifes too short as it is. At most I'd be asking for clarification and putting an expenses claim in. You'll probably save £120 in wear and tear on your bike by the time you can actually get back into the place 😉
Have you asked anyone yet?
edited. I've answered my own question.
There is only one rule for people that work at any size co and are a little cheeky with leaving bikes / locks / shoes and gear around:
Make best friends with the cleaning, building and facilities teams. Life will be so much easier...
did you put your lock in a position where it wouldn’t hinder anybody else wanting to place their bike in the same place and secure it ?
Who's going to be wanting to do that in a closed office?
I've just thought.
Was the office closed to everyone except Facilities who were told to come in even though there was nothing for them to do? I can readily how see after a few months of that one of them might bring in an angle grinder.
did you put your lock in a position where it wouldn’t hinder anybody else wanting to place their bike in the same place and secure it ?
Who’s going to be wanting to do that in a closed office?
As I said, more a devils advocate comment. Thinking along the lines of 'under normal circumstances'
If it is a first come first serve and no space reservations arrangement to the bike storage and the lock was in a position that could potentially be classed as reserving a spot, the jobsworth could have been so bored on one particular day. Lock gone !
Fair.
I’d fight the gate/fence saga to the bitter end, but this? Nah. I don’t always agree with TJ 😂, and unions, but he makes a very valid point. Don’t go into a battle you can’t win, an email asking for an explanation and requesting they replace yes. Demanding this and that, no. Little point in the stress, anger and raising your head above the parapet do to speak in the current jobs climate.
Also just claiming it on expenses leaves you massively open to an investigation into improper expense claims. That would play right into management hands, you kick up a stink, make a lot of noise and then stick in an expense claim that would unlikely be inline with policy, this gives them ammo to push you out.
It’s shit what they’ve done, and I completely agree that they done it in the most stupid manner, but it is not a battle I’d be bothering to put too much energy into.
No expenses system is in place. They’re Sheffield bike stands. I can’t think for the life of me how you could prevent anybody else from using one.
Not giving in. A huge injustice. It’s the principle. The whole department needs a rocket. I’m not bothered if I walk away with a flea in my ear or a kick up the arse. I’ve seen them not hand over a parcel because “It’s out of hours”. People track their deliveries and leg it to Reception to intercept their parcels rather than run the risk of dealing with them. Nope. Not giving in.
I think what the OP has described is pretty outrageous. Was the facilities manager just inventing work to keep his staff busy during lockdown?
It might be worth finding out whether any senior management/directors are cyclists if yes the maybe their support could lead to a positive outcome.
If your job is possibly looking dodgy then I would still try asking for return/replacement but, if you get a negative response then probably best to leave it (and plot revenge on the facilities team!)
Cookeea. Not are you only making huge assumptions...
Well yeah obviously. But it's good fun winding up strangers over relatively inconsequential things via the Internet.
I'm really just suggesting you're more upset because they took your expensive locks, if it had been a £30 kryptonite I doubt we'd be on page 3 now...
And yeah I take my locks home, especially if they're pricey, never mind the weight it's not a race, I mean you're potentially £120 out of pocket now so it's not the worst policy...
Plus there is the old thief's trick of gumming up a lock with glue, doesn't just just prevent you unlocking a bike, but potentially forces you to leave it unlocked in the morning due to your lock being inoperable, leaving your bike ready for nice easy theft...
A huge injustice
Amen brother. Up there with Stephen Lawrence...
Also just claiming it on expenses leaves you massively open to an investigation into improper expense claims.
No it doesn't. It leaves whoever signs it off open to investigation. You can claim for any old shit, it's down to the 'controlling mind' to say yay or nay.
Amen brother. Up there with Stephen Lawrence…
Do you get pulled over by police for speeding and whine about them not being out there catching 'real' criminals? Get a ****ing grip.
OK. So not a huge injustice in the great scale of things but in relative terms it is. The concept that somebody can just decide, quite out of the blue, after 6 years in fact, that the rules have changed, no warning, no opportunity to get your belongings before they casually destroy them. Like I said, it’s the principle.
Sorry Cockeeeeaaaa. You’re not winding me up. Can’t speak for anybody else.
Please feel free to carry on.
Also just claiming it on expenses leaves you massively open to an investigation into improper expense claims.
No it doesn’t. It leaves whoever signs it off open to investigation. You can claim for any old shit, it’s down to the ‘controlling mind’ to say yay or nay.
You love an argument more than me. 😂. If your company policy states “claim for any old shit” and if nothing to do with company business don’t worry you will laugh it off. If be very surprised. Anywhere I’ve worked states something along the lines of “legitimate costs incurred during business activities”
Sat at home, whilst working from home and then claiming for a bike lock. Doesn’t sound like a legitimate business expense in any policy I’ve ever seen. I would certainly be pulling someone up if they claimed for a bike lock in the above circumstances, especially if after being told no by the company already when questioning reimbursement.
I agree it’s shit, and the company has handled it in as crap manner, but I’d not waste my energy. As someone said above, you’d be better off recouping in post-it notes 🤣
Lots of companies dont own the buildings or car parking/bike parking, as can be seen at many workplaces where private contractors are employed to enforce parking rules for a fee, same with security,obviously a person has decided the place needs a tidy up and locks/chains lying around the floor are a trip hazard and look unsightly,so basic cleaning up prior to the workforce returning.
Then you'd have to find who authorised the lock/chain combinations to be removed and then ask them for compensation,and they may well just say no,so what happens then, a lot of stress for you.
The company own the building and the racks are set well back but I get your point entirely.
I know who issued the instruction.
As above. It’s the principle. I’m not bothered what comes at me. I’m tired of being bullied. I’ll see this one through, regardless of the outcome.
You love an argument more than me.
No I don't. (-:
If your company policy states “claim for any old shit” and if nothing to do with company business don’t worry you will laugh it off.
I think you misunderstand what I meant. You can claim for anything but it then goes through an approval process and spurious claims will be rejected. You don't automatically get free money for any old BS claim, we're not politicians.
Ie, it can't hurt to ask.
The answer has been staring us in the face- build a fence around the bike shed and only take it down when they replace your locks
🙂
The person (site manager) who responded to my initial request for information as to who decided to break the bike locks is now stating they had nothing to do with it but when asked, has not advised who did (maybe this person genuinely doesn’t know but they certainly new ‘why’) and is not responding to my request as to who I should escalate this to.
Do I now concentrate my efforts on the overall site manager above the person I was initially directed toward or to the department itself, if that is even possible?
I suspect the belief was I’ll shut up and go away so ignore him. I suggested legal action in the 4th of my emails and that got a response where others were ignored.
I’m not giving in.
I’m not giving in.
dont blame you mate, you sound like me 😀
theres an arsehole somewhere maybe realising theyve stepped out of line and hoping youll go away, keep chipping away 😉
good luck.
Win! The Facilities Department insurance provider is replacing my locks!
Hurrah!
🙂
good one!
A just result! \o/
Win! Nice work mate.
Excellent news.
Still shite that they did it and caused someone unnecessary stress.
They're so afraid of litigation in my place, that there's a bunch of bikes quite obviously dumped in our bike shed and though I have suggested solutions, the company won't touch them! I've thought of chucking a few of them in the car and taking them to the tip myself, but they are so filthy and covered in cobwebs I don't want to touch them!
Haha, well done!
I've been mulling this over with a warm glow of success and I'd like to thank everybody who encouraged me. There were times when I thought about throwing the towel in but a quick scan of your replies egged me on. Thanks everybody. In perspective, it was nothing huge. Quite a minor thing but it was the principle. Yes. Thank you to everybody who encouraged me on.
Good result - surprised the insurance coughed up though if they were destroyed by an employee of the company