Bike Locks Removed ...
 

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[Closed] Bike Locks Removed By My Employer.

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Jesus Wept! Another legal issue to go with the neighbours fence!

Self isolating and furloughed since mid March. I bike to work most days but I’m unlikely to be back in the company building until early winter if at all. So I rode over this morning to retrieve my bike locks from the Sheffield stand. They’ve been removed. Not a simple thing to do I’d hope as they’re substantial locks.

Historically, Faciities and Security are the most obstinate, unhelpful bunch of people you could ever wish not to have to deal with. For example “No, we can’t look at the CCTV to see who drove into the side of your car because we don’t have a license”. Thankfully, not me nor my car.

I’ve opened interactions with an email asking what’s happened to them.

Any thoughts or experience of this? Without doubt they’re going to try and give me the proverbial two fingers.

With this and the neighbours fence saga, I’m beginning to give up but yet completely see my arse with it all which is a very conflicting but yet interesting emotion. Must be my bipolar again.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:42 am
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Faciities and Security are the most obstinate, unhelpful bunch of people you could ever wish not to have to deal with.

Sorry I can't help but er, do we work at the same place?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:47 am
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It would be reasonable to expect notices at bike park and given Covid furloughing scheme, emails or phonecalls.

They owe you a lock or money to buy a replacement of equivalent security level.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:47 am
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Interesting. You can't remove the instructing fence because that would be criminal damage, but facilities can cut your lock off?

Surely it's one or the other, not both.
Email to facilities, copy in someone higher up depending on structure (MD, union, legal) with a copy of the receipt for the lock asking for a refund and pointing out, that atno point did the give fair warning this was going to happen, or invite people to remove their locks.

Some days your the statue, others you're the pigeon.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:51 am
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IANAL but sounds like criminal damage!


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:51 am
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Monksie, this time next week...

Faciities and Security are the most obstinate, unhelpful bunch of people you could ever wish not to have to deal with.

Sorry I can’t help but er, do we work at the same place?

I think it's just something they all aspire too.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:52 am
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Thank you. They wouldn’t have been able to know (or even care) who the locks belonged to and up until 4 weeks ago. Only my manager would have been able to contact me by text or phone. I have a company laptop now so I work from home. It’s a huge organisation. 800 people in our building alone.

It must be a prerequisite Sharkattack. You have to be a complete arse to get the job.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:52 am
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Whenever someone in our building wants to communicate something to everyone who works there they just get in touch with the office managers who then distribute the message however they see fit.

Honestly, it's not impossible for the building management to get a message to everyone who works there if they really wanted to.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 10:58 am
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When I used to work at a big firm, there were loads of accumulated bike locks (and a couple of abandoned bikes) in the shared bike racks that the building management wanted to clear out. They gave notice by email to all occupiers, posted signs etc at least three months or so beforehand, tagged the locks and bikes, gave an email address for contacts etc.

I think even at the best of times, no notice beforehand is poor, but when communications are possibly delayed, not *at the least* giving a site-wide (i.e. your office) email advising of their intentions in pretty good time before removal is bad.

Unless you had to sign some kind of waiver or licence allowing you to use the bike racks which stipulated they could remove your lock, then I think you have a pretty good shout for, at the least, an explanation as to where your lock has ended up, and if it's been cut/binned, a claim for the replacement cost.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:04 am
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Hmmmmmmmmm - I see no case for the lock being replaced or paid for. Yes notice would have been nice but at the end of the day you abandoned a lock on their property


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:11 am
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jagain
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Hmmmmmmmmm – I see no case for the lock being replaced or paid for. Yes notice would have been nice but at the end of the day you abandoned a lock on their property

Sorry TJ, but unless clearly abandoned the landowner can't just do what they like. It would be plain from use (i.e. left when not in use) that the users were temporarily storing them and therefore at the least before disposal the owners should have been given the opportunity to collect.

It's different to someone dumping rubbish on a third party's land - this is property the OP is allowed to occupy by virtue of his employment, which includes the right to use the bike rack as appropriate.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:15 am
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but at the end of the day you abandoned a lock on their property

Um, maybe something has prevented him going to get the lock. Like, I dunno, a major worldwide pandemic?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:16 am
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As a counter point, is a lock left on a bike rack on private property not left "at the owners risk"?

I've done it myself and it's not unreasonable to expect your lock to be there the following week/month IMO. But aren't they technically within their rights to remove "discarded property" if it has been there for some time?

I'm not defending them, it's pretty shabby behavior especially given the last few months, just postulating the logic/arguments you'll doubtless get back...


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:18 am
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TJ does have a bit of a point. A culture of leaving locks 'abandoned' on public and private property has come about over the last 20 years. Totally see why it's done but personally I'd think of it as at my own risk if I do it. Do any bike sheds have a single 'stash' rail where frequent flyers can lock their unused lock to to keep the shed/shelter neat and tidy? If designed well it could have a method for the site manager to have a clear out of abandoned locks by unlocking one end and sliding them off rather than having to cut them off. Bike sheds with years worth of abandoned and currently not in use locks can start to look pretty shabby. There can also be a bit of german beach towel about it - got in a bit of an argument with an old biddy who turned up just after me enraged I'd used a slot in a town centre bike rack as it was clearly her slot as that was where she kept her lock.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:24 am
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Thinking about it perhaps a suggestion for future company policy would be to tag any locks left on the site with the owners company phone extension?

Only using an on site extension should help avoid most potential GDPR issues and allows someone to contact you during business hours, or speak to the office manager if you are away to ID a lock owner. Importantly it removes any excuses for not getting in contact before breaking out the grinder...


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:28 am
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My bet - is that they posted a physical notice saying if they weren't moved in a week/month/whatever then they'd be removed

Basically, you're ****ed


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:28 am
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My experience was i used a bike shed at work where I had a key and they had my contact details. I had a heavy duty lock which I kept locked up in the shed as it was too heavy to keep transporting to and from work. One day I rode in and found that my lock wasn't there. On contacting facilities they told me that they removed the locks. However they didn't contact me to let me know thry were going to remove them and if I had received communication I would have removed the lock myself. In the end I pressed them for a new lock to the value of the lock that was taken.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:38 am
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They'll want to charge you for storing your lock.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:44 am
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Abandoned? Hahaha! As if! We were told, in no uncertain terms by our respective managers that *nobody* was allowed on site at the beginning of April. The very large automatic gates were locked and only 2 security staff were on site between 7am and 7pm.
There has been a gradual return to work with very strict conditions for around 50 people. This company is so risk adverse that you get hauled in by your manager if you’re spotted not using the handle rail on the very shallow, not many stairs on to the mezzanine.
Apart from clearly being in very good condition and used almost 5 days of every week, why on earth would they assume they’ve been abandoned?
“Left at my own risk” surely doesn’t absolve them of helping themselves, in one way or another, to my locks? If that’s the case, they could also help themselves to my bike!
Thanks for the sanity check.
I’ve had a reply from somebody in facilities. “Don’t know” was the gist of it. As expected. I’ll keep at it.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:50 am
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Retrogirl! Did they pay up?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:52 am
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I think I'd also want to know *how* they removed the lock.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:57 am
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Strange post there TJ. How were the locks abandoned? They were left locked to a bike rack, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. The OP hasn't been cycling to work because the company has told him to stay at home. They can't they be surprised if the bike locks aren't used for a little while!

It's reasonable to expect a fair notice period for removal and/or to keep the locks somewhere to allow people to claim them. At least a month* would be fair given some people might only cycle in infrequently and they could be on holiday for two weeks. Hopefully they've been removed by dismantling the rack rather than "dismantling" the locks and are now sat in a store cupboard somewhere.

* In normal circumstances. Given the company have banned you from the site for the past 3 months then I'd say at least 4 months notice is reasonable. How else could you have seen any notice?
Also, you don't work a stone's throw from the M6 by any chance? The stair rail holding thing sounds familiar.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:59 am
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Be realistic.
Your lock is gone.
You're not getting it back.
They aren't going to pay for it.
The only thing you can do is swear for a bit, then move on with your life.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 11:59 am
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As a counter point, is a lock left on a bike rack on private property not left “at the owners risk”?

That means that the employer can't be held responsible if someone else breaks in and steals the employees property (assuming the weren't negligent). Every supermarket car park has a sign like that, it doesn't mean the manager can just steal your car!


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:02 pm
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Abandoned? Hahaha! As if! We were told, in no uncertain terms by our respective managers that *nobody* was allowed on site at the beginning of April.

Yoi got the wrong end of the stick - I'm not talking about just in lockdown, I'm talking about every day when you wheel your bike out and leave the lock behind. It's a bike shed, not a bike lock shed. Again, I know why it's done and see the logic and also don't think they handled the clearing very well in your case. But in a broader context a bike shed with lots of folk who do this can look dreadful and get hard to use. The one at the train station where I used to live started to look like one of those bridges with all the 'love' padlocks.

This company is so risk adverse that you get hauled in by your manager if you’re spotted not using the handle rail on the very shallow, not many stairs on to the mezzanine.

SSE?

I start at a new organisation in August that does this and the you must reverse into car parking spots malarkey. Not sure if that or wearing a tie for the first time in 15 years is going to get me into trouble first.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:03 pm
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Bails - abandoned by being left on the bike rack with no bike. I find this a strange practice anyway and while I think the employer could have been more polite in giving notice I simply cannot see what legal recourse the OP can have.
FWIW I never leave a lock. I carry my 2.5 kilo lock everywhere


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:04 pm
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I find this a strange practice anyway

I carry my 2.5 kilo lock everywhere

If you only ever use the lock in one place ie work, why would you carry the lock around with you? It's just an awkward dead weight.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:07 pm
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TJ: I've got my own mug, coffee, pens, snacks and shoes (for when I cycle in) in my desk drawers at work. Can my employer just throw those away with no warning?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:09 pm
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Working on the Estates and Faciltities side of things; left locks are a problem on bike stands. We have signage up saying 'left at own risk' and that they may be removed. Even before lockdown we have tagged up, waited over a month and then removed locks and abandoned bikes, even then we got complaints. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It's crap that they didn't give notice, but i'd also be unsurprised to hear that the notification was in someones email inbox(s) to distribute wider and wasn't done so.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:12 pm
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I’m pretty convinced, backed up by the sane, or at least the voices I agree with that I have been wronged and I’m pretty determined to get either my locks back or the cost of replacement.
I hate injustice.

Reverse parking or you get a very difficult to remove ‘sticker’ on your rear passenger side window, a very public tannoy with your reg. number and a 1 week car park ban.

Not SSE. Another one. Quite near the M60. No ties required. Not even a dress code anymore beyond “no beachwear or similar”


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:20 pm
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TJ: I’ve got my own mug, coffee, pens, snacks and shoes (for when I cycle in) in my desk drawers at work. Can my employer just throw those away with no warning?

If you drove into work and used an unassigned spot in a communal car park would you feel entitled to leave your spare wheel there to save boot space? And should your employer cough up if they got rid of it?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:20 pm
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Monksie - don't waste your energy on a fight you will not win. sure make your point and be hopeful of a resolution you like but without finding something legal to support you I simply seen no avenue other than appealing to good nature


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:22 pm
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Bails - in my workplace stuff left in a communal area is thrown away all the time.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:23 pm
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If you drove into work and used a spot in a communal car park would you feel entitled to leave your spare wheel there to save boot space?

No, because leaving the wheel there blocks the space for someone else.

Me leaving a bike lock on the rafters of the bike shed doesn't stop anyone from using the bike racks.

Add my desk drawer isn't a communal desk (auto correct changed that to 'conjugal', definitely not work appropriate!) so again, it doesn't affect anyone else. Do you really think I should empty all of my stuff out of/off my desk every day and cart it home?

A clear out of old, genuinely abandoned, bikes and locks is fine. They should just be giving a decent notice period and doing it when most of the workforce is banned from the site is a crappy thing to do.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:27 pm
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Mrs antigees previous employer had bars on the wall for storing locks seemed to work ok...current employer empties everything out of the bike cage at end of every month including clothes in lockers..real hassle to get back...and a real hassle to avoid it happening if working in a different city or country

Meanwhile has a car space that probably gets used once or twice a month go figure...and I guess everyone knows that bike locks cost next to nothing...Center Parcs has a lot to answer for


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:32 pm
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No, because leaving the wheel there blocks the space for someone else.

No, I tucked it out of the way in the space.

And I've had plenty of incidences where there have been so many unused locks attached to a rack that it has made using the space unreasonably fiddly.

A clear out of old, genuinely abandoned, bikes and locks is fine.

Why should some facilities dude try to differentiate? Plenty of still in use locks left in the elements 24/7 start to look pretty scanky.

Again - I don't think this case has been handled very well.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:33 pm
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Be realistic.
Your lock is gone.
You’re not getting it back.
They aren’t going to pay for it.
The only thing you can do is swear for a bit, then move on with your life

This. It’s crap, but it’s not crap enough to lose sleep about.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:36 pm
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I have/use a Kryptonite New York lock. It costs £78 according to Halfords.

That's a substantial chunk of wedge to buy again.

Unclear what OP's lock is but if someone had got rid of mine in similar circumstances, I'd be working pretty hard to recover the cost of a replacement!


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:40 pm
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Convert: I get it, you can't do nothing and as soon as you do something then someone will moan.

What my workplace did was put stickers on all the lockers saying "email estates if you are using this locker-number X. In one month they will all be opened and cleared out unless you tell us your are using it." 2/3 of them were abandoned so got broken open, cleared out and had new locks fitted. Mine didn't because I replied.

You could do similar with bike locks. Zip tie a tag to each lock that says if this is still attached in X days/weeks then your lock will be treated as abandoned and removed. The time spent doing that will be saved when you only have to chop half of the locks off.

TJ: there's a difference between throwing away some mouldy cakes left in a communal break room and getting the angle grinder out to chop a bike lock off a bike rack without giving the owner a chance to move it. It just seems strange to me that you're so okay with the idea of employers destroying employee property with no warning, given your usual stance on 'industrial relations'. Like I say, I do get it. If there's a policy and it's made clear to everyone that you can't leave locks there any more and there's time for people on leave to come back and remove locks, then fine. But doing it while people are furloughed, with no warning, just feels like it's bordering on spite.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:51 pm
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The place I worked at, had a big problem with locks being left and preventing people mounting their bikes in the frame work. They installed 4 6ft posts, with loads of thick steel rings, to hang unused locks on. Worked very well. Prior to that, there were signs put up, saying abandoned locks would be removed. Nothing ever came of it


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:51 pm
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But doing it while people are furloughed, with no warning, just feels like it’s bordering on spite.

I quite agree. I just cannot see any recourse here.

Edit:
One thing I learned as shop steward was you only make a stand when you are on solid ground


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 12:54 pm
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are you sure it hasn't been nicked? Perhaps time to report to your manager as stolen?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:15 pm
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Clearly it depends on the circumstances, but there would have to be an awful lot of locks attached to a sheffield stand to make it difficult to use, or am I missing something here?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:22 pm
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There comes a time though:

[img] [/img]


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:31 pm
 DrJ
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left locks are a problem on bike stands

Because ... ??? Of course they could be, in theory, if people left them in their thousands, but in real life ?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:31 pm
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you must reverse into car parking spots

I worked at a place that forbade that as they didn't want fumes going onto the hedges between rows of spaces!


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:37 pm
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Leaving my locks attached to the bike stand, as does everybody else who rides in every day. It’s common practice. Even at train stations. They have been removed without my knowledge, permission or attention. I’m pretty sure they’ve not been nicked. One is a Kryptonite, the other a big thick motorbike security chain with a huge padlock. To nick them, I would hope they’d have to be attacked with an angle grinder. They couldn’t have given me notice as the whole building was shut down and then slowly reopened at a rate of 10 people per week, from a list of 800, over a five week period.
You think I’m NOT on solid ground?
I suspected I’d been wronged and I had recourse. Most of you kind people have convinced me.

Not SSE. A different one. Close to the M60. Nowhere near M6. No dress code to speak of. Nobody wears a tie.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:54 pm
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That means that the employer can’t be held responsible if someone else breaks in and steals the employees property (assuming the weren’t negligent). Every supermarket car park has a sign like that, it doesn’t mean the manager can just steal your car!

Pretty much what I was going to say, only I was going with "car park attendant" and "stereo."

What a lot of posters seem to be missing is, this isn't just any old public space, it's his place of employment. If he'd left the lock in ASDA car park for 12 months (and contrary to popular opinion I'd bet "that bloody lock is still there and no-one ever uses it" becomes very obvious very quickly) then it's absolutely fair game for them to remove it. Doing it in a staff car park whilst the office is closed is rampant bellendery of the highest order and I would absolutely be seeking recompense.

you must reverse into car parking spots malarkey

I came across this doing a site visit for a customer once. I think it was the AA but might be misremembering. Got the whole "you need to reverse into parking bays" schtick, I said oh right, I had no idea. The jobsworth then made me go and turn it round right there and then before he'd let me in the building, like it made any difference to anything beyond looks.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 1:58 pm
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Apologies Monksie...

when i said are you sure they haven't been nicked, i was wondering what reaction your boss would have when you implied that it may have been nicked and therefore perhaps a matter for the cops...


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:02 pm
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Monksie - but what recourse do you expect? What legal grounds?

I would be writing / emailing to them with a complaint of course and hoping for redress but I simply cannot see what legal redress you have thus my advice is simply not to waste too much time and energy over it as you have no legal basis that I can see for redress.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:09 pm
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Greater Anglia removed my lock from the station rack.

In regard to the FM department not allowing CCTV to be viewed, look them up on the ICO register and if they don't have a listing shop them.

If they have CCTV being monitored by a guard on site check if the guards are CCTV licensed by the SIA, if not shop them.

There are rules they need to abide by for safeguarding purposes.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:10 pm
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but what recourse do you expect? What legal grounds?

They have taken away his property


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:13 pm
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What recourse? Seriously? It’s not obvious to you? Giving me my ‘intact’ locks back, providing me with similar replacements or reimbursing me if I have to go and purchase replacements.
They’ve removed my belongings without permission or notice where I had a legitimate reason for leaving them there which is in a fashion of common practice! Is this a surprise to you, TJ?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:14 pm
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On what grounds? As fr as they are concerned its abandoned on their property and thus they have the right to remove it. You have no right to leave the locks there.

Make the complaint, ask for redress and leave it at that. Don't waste time and energy on a fight you will not win is my advice.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:17 pm
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Please...leave me alone TJ. I have enough to contend with 😂


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:19 pm
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I agree your employer should return or replace your locks. I expect the contents of my locker to be there when I'm allowed back in work, this is the same.

On a lighter note, are you sure that your workplace hasn't been visited by a smooth talking American lawyer?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:34 pm
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Because … ??? Of course they could be, in theory, if people left them in their thousands, but in real life ?

@DrJ - I work at a university. We have turnover of staff and students who leave them at the end of the academic year. Your question has made me think that we should just leave them in perpituity as a fitting tribute to their time with us, along with the rusty BSO that they left behind too....

I know someone who changed jobs from Leeds to London and just left their lock in Leeds and bought a new one. Similar with another chap who just left a bike locked up at Manchester Picadilly when it got a bit too rusty and just bought a new one. I suggested they donate the bike and they couldn't be arsed. These are just a few examples of why you have to do clearouts of bike storage from time to time


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:35 pm
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tjagain
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On what grounds? As fr as they are concerned its abandoned on their property and thus they have the right to remove it. You have no right to leave the locks there.

TJ, I'm sorry, but this is just cobblers.

I would have thought a quick legal analysis would go like this: he has a non-exclusive licence to use the cycle storage facilities at his employer's premises for cycle storage and reasonable purposes adjunct to that function.

Storage of ancillaries is likely to be part of that function and I would say absent some specific provision to the contrary (or specific warning against doing so), leaving a lock there without an express prohibition would be a reasonable use of the cycle storage facilities.

They have removed his property without his consent, so at best they are bailees of his property and therefore have an obligation to safeguard it, and if they have damaged or destroyed it, they are liable to him for conversion.

You appear to me missing the fundamental point that there was no prohibition against storage of items in place. Therefore OP is entitled to make reasonable use of his employer's private property in accordance with the terms on which it is granted to him.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:43 pm
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Whereas I would see it as the employers defense would be " this lock was abandoned on our property so we removed it"

I think you are all missing that he has no right to leave the lock there on the employers property. Its as simple as that. Cycle parking does not IMO come with the expectation you can leave locks on the premises. It would never occur to me to do so.

We will find out ( hopefully) if the OP lets us know but its not a hill I would chose to die on given how shonky the grounds for a claim would be.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:47 pm
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I think you are all missing that he has no right to leave the lock there on the employers property. Its as simple as that. Cycle parking does not IMO come with the expectation you can leave locks on the premises. It would never occur to me to do so.

Cycle parking does, by its very nature, come with the expectation you can leave the lock on the premises - otherwise how would the bikes be locked? It is a necessary part of the function of cycle storage and absent some specific prohibition - of which there does not appear to be any - would in my view constitute an entirely natural use of the facility.

Many people at work leave towels, shower gel etc in otherwise 'public' facilities.

I think you will find that many people have exactly the opposite experience to yours, and difference point of view. Furthermore, if a behaviour is repeated and tolerated, it is possible the landowner could have waived their right to do so.

There was no evidence that the lock was abandoned - indeed, until lockdown it appears there is ample evidence it was in use.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 2:53 pm
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I have used employer provided cycle racks/storage and without question have always (along with many others) left my locks on site if I was using it for extended periods. I think if it was a public cycle storage facility that's one thing - but I would have expected at the very least a company wide notice that these were going to be removed if unclaimed.

@tjagain - And that's *regardless* of the legality of the company / security team deciding to clear them out. Even if there's no leg to stand on from a legal point of view; it's not a great way for a company to treat it's staff.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:03 pm
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I would have thought a quick legal analysis would go like this...

Are you a lawyer?

Here's how I think a lawyer would respond, "Don't waste your time and money pursuing it because you have zero chance of succeeding. In the future, don't leave personal belongings in shared spaces."


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:05 pm
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Are you a lawyer?

As it happens, yes.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:08 pm
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Even if there’s no leg to stand on from a legal point of view; it’s not a great way for a company to treat it’s staff.

I quite agree - its shitty

I just do not see it as being worth wasting all this time and energy on. Make a complaint and if you want I would happily help write it - I have lots of experience of dealing with management as an employee rep but given no legal basis for redress then I simply think that wasting a lot of time and energy on this would do nothing but lead to frustration and anger and get you nowhere


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:11 pm
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Are you a lawyer?

As it happens, yes.

So would you advise a client to spend money on legal fees to pursue this in court if the company says, "Go * yourself, and while you're at it, go * that horse your rode in on too?"


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:12 pm
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So what about a mug in the staff kitchen? Left alone or fair game for destruction?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:12 pm
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What sort of lawyer Jakester?


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:13 pm
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Cycle parking does, by its very nature, come with the expectation you can leave the lock on the premises – otherwise how would the bikes be locked?

When accompanied by a bike.

I could leave a car on my employer's premises but I think they might be a little irked if I left 6lt of motor oil in a puddle in the car park on the proviso that it was perfectly acceptable to do so in a car therefore it should also be acceptable without it too.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:13 pm
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no legal basis for redress

TJ, I appreciate you are a contrarian but this is simply not correct, as explained above.

Whether it is worth spending the effort on is another matter.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:15 pm
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hols2

So would you advise a client to spend money on legal fees to pursue this in court if the company says, “Go * yourself, and while you’re at it, go * that horse your rode in on too?”

Probably not. But similarly I wouldn't say to simply give up hope of gettign any money back either.

Say the locks cost £100 or so, worth a quick Moneyclaimonline for the fee of £25 (that you'll get back if you win). If they did say that, then you can be pretty sure a judge wouldn't like it.

What sort of lawyer Jakester?

Litigator in E&W.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:16 pm
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convert
When accompanied by a bike.

I could leave a car on my employer’s premises but I think they might be a little irked if I left 6lt of motor oil in a puddle in the car park on the proviso that it was perfectly acceptable to do so in a car therefore it should also be acceptable without it too.

I get that people like to argue reductio ad absurdum here, but your point is a bad one - the car couldn't be driven without the oil, but the bike could be without the lock. The lock is only required when securing the bike in accordance with the provided facility - the oil is necessary for the functioning of the car and its discharge on the parking space wouldn't be a desired outcome.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:23 pm
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You know things are serious when somebody uses the word "adjunct."

I discharged in a parking spot once. Happy days.

Monksie has effectively abandoned his possessions in a parking area and I don't believe he has a leg to stand on.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:28 pm
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If they did say that, then you can be pretty sure a judge wouldn’t like it.

I imagine they would say it using fancy legal words, but translating to "go **** yourself" in English. For example, "We accept no responsibility for property left in public areas." All the company has to do is refuse any responsibility and admit nothing and the onus is on you to prove your case. No lawyer is going to advise a client to spend money chasing it up.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:28 pm
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I get that people like to argue reductio ad absurdum here, but your point is a bad one – the car couldn’t be driven without the oil, but the bike could be without the lock. The lock is only required when securing the bike in accordance with the provided facility – the oil is necessary for the functioning of the car.

Only elected to pick me up on part 2 (replace oil with removable back seats if it makes you feel better) but elected not to comment on part 1 - assuming I then have a point no?

It's all a lot of whataboutery as I think everyone is agreed the OP has a point - it's just his right to redress and how much its worth kicking off that's at issue.

Locks are an odd one though - because they self secure (badly in this case it turns out), the 'right' or entitlement to leave where you like seems to be enhanced. Agreed it has now become common practice but it still seems a bit odd however convenient. I have genuinely always thought I was doing it at my own risk when I've done it and it could be removed if someone was so motivated.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:31 pm
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I work as part of a facilities team on a large site.

We do a bike clear out on an annual basis, however, we give fair warning (6 weeks) and any bike removed are kept for a further 6 weeks (in case the owner comes looking)

In terms of locks, we send several site wide emails, and all (old and rusty locks) are labelled with a letter of intention.

To be fair, if someone suggested that I remove there lock accidentally, I would generally go-ahead and replace it as a gesture of good will anyhow, as £30-£60 for a new lock in terms of our budget is not a lot of money for us to absorb.

I think your facilities team needs a lesson in customer service and good will!!!!


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:37 pm
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Absolutely agree that removing the lock at this time, and with no notice, is very wrong. I think you're right to take it up with facilities and management, however be prepared it may not go anywhere. If it was a management decision to remove locks I suspect it'll be 'suck it up'


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:38 pm
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Can't see this ending up being a legal matter - it's likely to be discussed between OP and his boss, and given there are probably a decent number of pissed off employees, you would hope that they will respond fairly. For example, I've got a £200 pair of headphones on my desk, had I come back after lockdown to find them disposed of I'd be kicking off.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:40 pm
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I hate injustice. It’s part of my make up. The locks combined are going to cost around £120. I’m not giving up. It’s the principle.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:41 pm
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Seriously OP, pick your battles.
It's crap, you understandably feel aggrieved, but for the sake of a lock or 3 its not worth the damage to your blood pressure.
If you must, send an e-mail to the facilities team, maybe copying in someone important, politely asking where your locks are and how you are to retrieve them. And leave it at that.
I know you see it as injustice, I get that, but some battles are not worth the hassle.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 3:56 pm
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FM at my wife's place will happily sit behind a glass door waiting for 8:00am while people stand outside in the pissing rain.


 
Posted : 30/07/2020 4:05 pm
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