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I have a new frame and need all the kit from my old bike transferred onto the new frame. As a ham-fisted engineering type bloke I am going to leave it to the experts! The old bike is about a year old so the kit is in good condition. I've been quoted £250 quid from an LBS in Edinburgh and I think this is a tad steep! They said the cost is because the groupset is GRX Di2 but I don't get how that complicates matters! How much would your LBS charge? Any advice is appreciated.
I'd charge approx 3-4 hours labour (£150-£200) although could be more if frame has stupidly designed routing (many have). You would also need to budget for hose fittings (and hose if too short after cutting old fittings off), bar tape, and anything that wasn't compatible between the 2 frames (Di2 cables could be too short, bb, chain (if new frame has longer stays) etc...)
Do it yourself, it's really not that hard.
My first instinct was £250 was about right (4-5 hours labour plus maybe some budget for a few little consumables).
I'd do it myself but I enjoy most aspects of tinkering with bikes.
It can take longer than you think so that quote sounds about right. Essentially it's two jobs, strip and build.
is £50 per hour really the going rate for a bike mechanic these days. wow. teach yourself, it isn't hard. use the money you save to invest in some nice tools.
if the bike has internal routing and discs it can be a right faff though.
is £50 per hour really the going rate for a bike mechanic these days?
Yes. Because of things like internal routing and discs!
I’ve been quoted £250 quid from an LBS in Edinburgh and I think this is a tad steep
What price were you expecting as a matter of intrest?
Yes. Because of things like internal routing and discs!
That has zero bearing on hourly rate, it just increases the number of hours it takes.
£50 an hour for a shop to charge is fine isn't it, what price do people think it shook cost given overheads, paying the person doing it etc,.
If your not confident doing it yourself that’s a good price to have it done right.
Don't forget you aren't paying the mechanic £50/hr, you are paying the shop with its many overheads.
Is £250 worth it to avoid the stress of doing it yourself?
That has zero bearing on hourly rate, it just increases the number of hours it takes.
No, the skills needed to work on hydraulics, electrics etc are greater than they were when bikes were all mechanical. This means more training, more tooling, more diagnostic equipment. This has to be paid for somehow and that is through the hourly rate. All these jobs are easy, until they aren't.
Many, many times I had customers bring in bikes they had tried to fix themselves. Snapped Di2 cables, stripped out hydraulic brifters, cracked brake pistons, stripped threads on very expensive parts were all very common.
There's regular threads on here about poor quality work in bike shops but customers don't want to pay a rate that allows the shop to pay for training of good quality staff. Customers want to pay a rate that allows the shop to pay minimum wage to a school leaver. Bike shop wages are generally less than an Aldi shelf stacker. You get the level of expertise that you are prepared to pay for.
A number of things may be behind the EBC quote. Firstly £50 an hour is nowhere near the amount that will actually be paid to the mechanic, when I worked there pay rates were minimum wage or just above if you took on extra responsibility. The quote will also reflect the opportunity cost of the mechanic's time from probably doing 4 or 5 services or fitting mudguards child seats, scraping grease off the commuter bikes which account for 80% of the workshop business.This is far more lucrative and predictable than fiddling with a component swap which even from a relatively new donor, could involve different standards or specs for BB,headset, hose and cable length etc. I recall a customer presenting us with a knackered Sturmey Archer hub that he wanted fixing rather than replacing, we stupidly agreed and quoted an eye-watering price. It took hours and the cost was never recovered, most of the work was done after hours in the mechanic's own time.
Hmm 50 an hour does seem steep though.
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/cycle-mechanic-salary-SRCH_KO0,14.htm thinks average salary is 20k ish, thats about 11quid an hr.
Most overhead rates don't go over 200% so another 22 an hour = 33.
Anyway, just do it yourself.
About £200 to £250 is right.
It's not mechanic salary you are paying is shop price
Most overhead rates don’t go over 200% so another 22 an hour = 33.
So your expectation is the shop shouldn't make a profit?
Op, either spend the £250 on the tools (from your ls obviously 🤔😁) to do it your self or pay the £250 🤷♂️
£250 sounds spot on with modern bikes, discs and di2. Your taking a mechanic and stand pretty much for an entire day.
you don't need £250 of tools to swap components. unless that quote includes things like reaming bb shell / headtube etc...
get yourself some wera keys, a torque wrench and the appropriate bb tool. headset press which can double as a bearing press. cable cutters. cassette tool, chain whip and an adjustable spanner. maybe a star nut setter if you haven't got a compression fit.
if the quote also including consumables, such as new cables and outers, maybe its OK. but, I don't pay bike shop prices, seems its getting to be the same cost as car mechanics these days
and a decent book on bike mechanics. that should all be less than £250 easy and you will have the tools for the next job.
Road bike with discs and internal routing will also require new hose fittings (and possibly hose) plus bleed kit and fluid to add to the shopping list above.
I can imagine Di2 routing and set up can be a pain as well.
Swapping the main parts over takes relatively little time, it’s the finer details (cable routing, brake set up, bar taping, gear set up) which take the time.
A work stand would eat into that £250 a fair bit. Assuming the OP has the space for one. Or the space to do a frame swap. Or the time.
200-250 seems about right for a good job, assuming consumables used are included.
Di2 set up is straight forward but needs planning, maybe a firmware update done at same time if required.
Hydraulic hoses might need re bleeding and routing could be easy or a right PITA.
I built up a rim braked di2 frame and it took me 4-5 hours all in.
true I started rebuilding bikes by hanging from their saddle, then the cheapest of cheap stands for £35. then after 10 years treated myself to a too end stand. all work, better quality makes the job easier / nicer.
I pity the person that can't find an evening to chill out with some music and a drink and do something like this.
of course some people don't want to, in which case they have to stump up whatever the going rate is
you'll also need a chain breaker, kind of assumed most serious cyclists will have one of those already
I pity the person that can’t find an evening to chill out with some music and a drink and do something like this.
not everyone has the mechanical sympathy or patience. I’ve just fixed a bottle boss on a second hand carbon frame I purchased which is testament to that!
On that note, OP would also need a decent torque wrench
and many of those tools can be bodged together - a chain whip can be made from a bit of wood and an old chain for example. I used to use a bearing press made from washers and threaded bar (although the proper tool for this is much better) and so on.
It sounds like 250 is fair, but in honesty I would hum and haw about that price for a 'simple' frame swap.
On one hand, I know that I could do it and 'probably' have all the tools. On the other hand, having done it several times before it always seems to cost more and be more complex than I think - something always has a new standard or type, requiring me to stop and order a tool. Something always needs new cables or fixings, which I don't realise in advance and have to go off and buy. Something is always slightly challenging to fit, giving me paranoia that somehow it is incompatible and I'll ruin a new frame trying to force it on - the list goes on!
But, yeah - £250.00.
If the frame is a real expensive nice upgrade, I say shop. If it's a cheap second bike thing, crack on, drunk, on the kitchen floor.
in which case they have to stump up whatever the going rate is
Which is what the OP is asking.
Challenge a magician to develop a trick where they switch the components between bike frames by slight of hand whilst distracting the owner with some anecdote. Magician gets a new trick, you get free mechanical work; win-win.
OP is fitting GRX di2 so I’m assuming it’s going into a high end frame..
Is that £250 a flat rate including any required parts and labour?
If so, it seems fair enough to me. It may need new hoses, new DI2 cables if the others are too short in places, new olives barbs, etc.
It takes me about an hour to strip a bike carefully and probably another 2 hours to assemble from a frame. Then it takes at least an hour to make sure it all works properly together. So, yeah, £200-£250 sounds about right. My local BMW specialist is now £75+vat per hour and under most repairs, it’s just bolts and brackets, so no different to a bike.
OP is fitting GRX di2 so I’m assuming it’s going into a high end frame..
A missed opportunity to create a rare example of the Di2 On One Inbred...? 😀
A missed opportunity to create a rare example of the Di2 On One Inbred…?
I know a chap who had full fox factory suspension, bling wheels and full XX1 on a boardman FS frame. Said he really liked the geometry 🤷
(Fox owners group on FB, not sure if it’s a private group)
In the OP's shoes I would say...that's a reasonable price and wouldn't begrudge paying it.
My only concern would be to ensure there is absolute clarity (are far as practically possible) about who carries the risk if something goes wrong.
It takes me about an hour to strip a bike carefully and probably another 2 hours to assemble from a frame. Then it takes at least an hour to make sure it all works properly together.
Yep, takes me around same time. I always think it is going to take an hour but it never does! I got spoilt for many years riding brakeless fixed gear where I could tap a frames in around 30 minutes. Now I just seem to take a long time faffing about getting brakes and gears perfect.
Modern bike, especially with Di2/internal routing etc, that's an hour to strip the old frame, 2+ hours to build the new one and that's assuming everything fits.
If it starts to involve complex cable routing, a Di2 firmware update, any issues with parts not fitting as they should, it'll be even longer.
In the OP's position, I'd do a half way house. Strip (and thoroughly clean) everything that is easy to take off. Some of it is stuff that's going to be replaced anyway like chain and bar tape so just bin that. Put all the parts into a box then take whatever is left (ie all the difficult bits still on the frame!) to the shop. It'll save them a bit of time, might knock a bit off the price. But yeah, £250 sounds about right. My LBS would charge about £200 for that.
I suppose you could also add in the time and faff of dealing with a bike shop. depending on your distance from the bike shop and their level of customer service you could have easily stripped the frame in the time its taken you to phone up, book it in, take it down there and drop it off, then pick it up again.
whilst wrong side of £200 might be the going rate, it does seem like alot to someone who does work themselves.
Thanks @simondbarnes
Do it yourself, it’s really not that hard.
I really am that ham-fisted!
What price were you expecting as a matter of intrest?
I walked into another LBS a few months back and was quoted “about £100”. The guy seemed very disinterested in speaking to me so not sure it was a genuine quote. I very rarely use an LBS so no real clue on pricing these days!
Thanks for all the advice. I have most tools except the star nut tool. I really should use the LBS but drunk bike building is strangely appealing!!
Look out for the obligatory “Help, I’m an idiot” thread
Park tools website has pretty much every bit of advice you'll need!
(well dunno on di2 setup, I've not done that before, I'm sure it can't be that hard!)
I pity the person that can’t find an evening to chill out with some music and a drink and do something like this.
I’d rather be out riding or spending time with the kids. All depends on what you enjoy doing and what you’d rather pay somebody else to do.