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we've already had a topic on pensions, but lets see what else is in there..
previewed is
pension limits increase
childcare free for 1&2 year olds (typically my youngest just turned 3!)
fuel & alcohol duty frozen
corporation tax up
Buzzphrases ... "High Wage Economy" ... so why all the strikes over pay in sectors where Hunt controls the wages?
alcohol duty frozen
Tax on beer served in pubs on draft is actually reduced...
Listening to the speech, we've never had it so good so I'm sure the bank will be happy to extend my overdraft.
'High wage economy' isn't a buzz word, it's a description of an economic system set up for people who already have high wages (I will wait with baited breath for the explanation of the difference between wealth and high wages)
It's the dullest thing I've ever seen with vague business allowances not really of any use.
11bn extra for the military though.
And economic idiots assemble:
"Hunt says the OBR today confirmed we are meeting that rule with a buffer of £39.2bn and our deficit falls in every year of the forecast, borrowing falling from 5.1% in 2023-24 to 1.7% 2027-28."
That's called a contracting economy. You can't reduce debt and increase growth at the same time. It's technically impossible.
The OBR are a total Dinosaur.
Buzzphrases … “High Wage Economy” … so why all the strikes over pay in sectors where Hunt controls the wages?
Total horsehit isn't it?
Political parties are merely twitter banners with font point 350.
I just can't believe how boring and useless this all is.
annual pension allowance up to £60k, no lifetime allowance limits at all!
"Oy, old folk, get back to work..." ...any mention of worsening health results for those close to retirement age? I mean Hunt used to be in charge of the NHS, at the very time it was being run down most.
"Hey ill people - work from home via zoom"
Any mention of when the post-Brexit economic Utopia will arrive?
childcare free for 1&2 year olds (typically my youngest just turned 3!)
This sounds like a very good thing. (The childcare, I mean, not OP's kid's birthday, which I am sure was fun all the same). How did that Trotskyite nonsense creep in there?
interestingly the free childcare thing mentioned "every parent of kids under 5". up till now there's been an earning limit on the 30 hours free (£100k - above that you get 15hours free). I wonder if that is changing by stealth
I loved the way he said that the OBR had confirmed that we probably wouldn’t go into recession, as if this was some sort of massive achievement he should be hugely congratulated for
The ironic cheers said it all
And that’s where Brexit Britain now is. (Sort of…) Managed decline.
All the Union Jacks they love to wave around should be embroidered with the motto
“Well… it could have been worse”
Any mention of when the post-Brexit economic Utopia will arrive?
Didn't you hear the man? It is hear now. Rejoice
Any mention of when the post-Brexit economic Utopia will arrive?
Third Thursday of September 2024.
HTH
Free childcare is massive but why only 2 years? How does that make sense?
Fiscal policy operates within such a narrow band of nothingness these days.
I mean - with the BoE cracking on with lifting the cost of money most months, at a pretend arms length. What did the government have to say about that particular issue?
Every major political party has saddle the country with no ability to fix problems. You choose to operate within fiscal responsiblity and being terrified of what the OBR and 'Markets' might do (not serve us actually - when you have the power to control them duh!) - you will always leave the majority of the country on a downward trajectory.
You bang your head against a neoliberal wall - expect neoliberal outcomes.
We need the free childcare to kick in now. The cost is really hurting us.
Wraparound school care is something that should be standard, at our school if you take away the grandparents, friends, etc then most would have to give up full time work!
Wraparound school care is something that should be standard
Agreed.
Who staffs it?
The 50-odd year olds who are all now going to rush back to work?
Free childcare is massive but why only 2 years? How does that make sense?
it starts at 9 months (when the parents go back to work) and continues till school starts. age 3 -> school already existed so the extra is 2 years.
We need the free childcare to kick in now. The cost is really hurting us.
the trouble with that is making it free will massively increase demand on providers. The staff and space simply doesn't exist today.
Who staffs it?
our local school has an afterschool and before-school club, privately run, thats staffed entirely by parents who would be looking after the kids otherwise. The ratio is huge (30-to-one?) so it only involves a couple of parents in that situation (want a bit of extra cash, would otherwise be looking after their own kids 3-6) to balance out the whole school
Was there anything about an extra £350m a week for the NHS?
thats staffed entirely by parents who would be looking after the kids otherwise
That sounds great. Not sure if it scales out to all schools, but seems a good model.
That £350 million a week been pencilled in for further French protection money and pretending we are still a big player on the world peace front, with our new sub deal. 😉
Pretty much more of the same. I don't really agree with any of it!
£11bn on defence may aswell just be spaffed up the wall - buying a new sub is a waste of money imo. We should just lean on the USA for that.
I would use that/energy price money to solve pay disputes in the public sector.
Get a grip of infrastructure projects eg HS2, new nuclear/energy sources
Create stability to promote business investment eg simpler regulation
Devolve power to local areas which need regeneration.
Borrow to invest in critical industry eg new tech for steelmaking,
Crack down on environmental pollution.
Anyone seen the maths on the childcare yet... does the "increased funding" result in more money per a child for the care provider? Or is it more money in total assuming more children being looked after?
Did my ears deceive me or was cheap electricity mentioned in regards to the Hinckley nuclear power station?
I wonder if that is changing by stealth
It "sounds like" that £100k earnings limit for the full help will stay in place.
Also sounds like nearly all of this new entitlement kicks in AFTER the next election.
And the funding sums seem out to me... waiting for analysis from someone with a better grasp of it all.
Lean on the USA for submarine capability?
Complete non-starter.
Just been reading some of the initial comnents from the OBR.
Oh dear, jeremy
The Yanks are struggling to meet their own targets for building subs, let alone selling 5 to the Aussies.
There's a good breakdown of the deal here and some interesting background info on the various issues being faced across all three partners.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/australia-will-buy-at-least-three-us-made-virginia-class-submarines
UK building subs will be good for RR and BAE - corporate, employment and shareholders.
Public sector payrise that cancels out 10+ years of Tory austerity + inflation rise. That's the real world budget that needs addressing....🙄
£11bn on defence may aswell just be spaffed up the wall
I have a lot of contempt for the military industrial complex...but...Russia has invaded two countries recently, and occupied a third. The post_9/11 idea that everything is going to be about agile light "tip of the spear" forces from then on has turned out to be a bit optimistic. We shouldn't be in a position where the UK can't defend itself or help other countries defend themselves.
buying a new sub is a waste of money imo.
Like every other public sector you can think of, the military are on their knees. There was a report not so long ago that suggested if our armed forces had to engage an enemy at a rate the Ukrainians are now, we'd run through our stocks of weaponry and ammunition in 6 days. Clearly we're not about to be invaded by anyone, but we really ought to be able to do better than that.
No rise in personal allowances then - for another 5 years! If benefits and triple-lock pensions can rise in line with inflation why not personal allowances?
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Just been talking about this aspect of it at work (I work in Transport Planning)
https://twitter.com/TransportActio2/status/1636040159463456769?t=TLy-aWJo3skc8_aoMtovTw&s=19
It's not good. ☹️
I shouldn’t ask… but… what the hell is “Bus Back Better”?!?
muffin - fiscal drag; a not-so-stealthy stealth tax which hunt announced in October.
fiscal drag; a not-so-stealthy stealth tax which hunt announced in October.
I don't see that as an entirely bad thing. And it's going to affect me before chevychase pops up to tell me I'm just jealous. There obviously needs to be some banding so you don't go straight from NMW to 40%, but bringing the 40% down would still be a good thing (or making the additional rate 50% at £60k for example).
The first ~£20k (national minimum wage) of your income is what you need to live on, in most of the country that gets you rent, heating, food, and a modicum of discretionary spending like a car, holiday, etc. That shouldn't be taxed, and if it is only slightly (it's ~12% overall currently).
Anything above that is buying you a nicer house, a nicer car, a nicer holiday. The 'need' has gone from the equation.
Put bluntly, the difference between £17k and £18k net per year might be as big as keeping a house or being homeless. The difference between £18k and £19k is 2 weeks all-inclusive holiday somewhere cheap (or whatever you like, it's discretionary). Then the same 5% pay rise on £60k is a new MTB? Trip to the Caribbean? Deposit on a PCP "Executive Saloon"?
I shouldn’t ask… but… what the hell is “Bus Back Better”?!?
A pre-Covid transformational redevelopment of bus services nationwide to bring passengers back to bus usage, have fleets of new electric buses, better / smarter ticketing...
Covid bolloxed all that so it sort of got amended to "any old shite to get people back on buses".
And given that it was a Boris Johnson promise, it was all utter shite anyway.
Fiscal drag/stealth tax resulting from freezing personal allowance and basic rate for 5 years until 2028 and you say...
I don’t see that as an entirely bad thing
Really?
Higher and additional rates are, I believe, subject to annual change as they have not been frozen.
Did my ears deceive me or was cheap electricity mentioned in regards to the Hinckley nuclear power station?
About bloody time. I was assured in the 1960s that electricity produced by nuclear power stations would be so cheap it wouldn't be worth metering.
Anything about the green Revolution?
Housing, technology?
Nothing about renewables, another big bet on carbon capture and nuclear (jam tomorrow that we’ll never get to actually taste).
Interesting that JC used the phrase “Work is a virtue”.... seems GL was onto something.... as
Arbeit macht frei
comes from the title of a book called
Arbeit macht frei: Erzählung von Lorenz Diefenbach
which espouses "Virtue through Labour"!
So, once again, the working population are having their taxes stealthily increased to pay for keeping the boomers in the lifestyle to which they’ve become more than accustomed
The one where they stand still and the whole ****ing world revolves around them 🙄
So, once again, the working population are having their taxes stealthily increased to pay for keeping the boomers in the lifestyle to which they’ve become more than accustomed
Taxes don't pay for that at all.
That's why you need to adopt pushing back against fiscal responsibility.
Because, the more they try and balance the books the more a government will try to remove money via taxation from the wrong groups of society.
Conversely when a government chooses to spend we can all be net benefactors.
There is no government offering this approach though so you're stuffed currently.
This is why fiscally responsible government accounting harms its electorate.
Put bluntly, the difference between £17k and £18k net per year might be as big as keeping a house or being homeless. The difference between £18k and £19k is 2 weeks all-inclusive holiday somewhere cheap (or whatever you like, it’s discretionary). Then the same 5% pay rise on £60k is a new MTB? Trip to the Caribbean? Deposit on a PCP “Executive Saloon”?
What decade are you basing your analogy on!? A family on a joint income of £60k aren’t living the dream anymore - mortgage, transport, heating, food, child care - make a massive dent in that.
At the very least they could remove vat on doing retro fit insulation in current housing.
Subsidising gas heating only passed the gov money to the energy companies which we pay for in taxes.
5% pay rise on £60k
£3k doesn't get much of an all inc for a family these days unless you like sharing your Cerveza in Shagaloof with Bob from Essex, his wife & six children for 7 days at a time.
Look how pissed the OBR v BoE forecasting is.
Lol.
https://twitter.com/BenChu_/status/1635997235916800002?t=CwaOL4RWSj91dyd_TptibQ&s=19
How about we bring in child labour for the under five? Solves the need for child care, wrap around care etc. Bonus is they can be paid with fruit shoots and cheap toys!
Was there anything about an extra £350m a week for the NHS?
Pfft, at least 2 years worth of that was sensibly used spunked on that useless track and trace system
Really?
Higher and additional rates are, I believe, subject to annual change as they have not been frozen.
I was refering to the 40% and 45% bands. Hence, with less selective quoting you would have included the bit about not thinking the minimum wage should be taxed.
What decade are you basing your analogy on!? A family on a joint income of £60k
No, but they are on 2x 150% of the NMW, which while not as high as it should probably be, is still a reasonable proxy of the breadline.
I was on the NMW 5 years ago, it's uncomfortable, but survivable. Hence my point that tax should start at that point, and ramp up. One way or another every pound we earn is going on something more discretionary than the last.
£3k doesn’t get much of an all inc for a family these days unless you like sharing your Cerveza in Shagaloof with Bob from Essex, his wife & six children for 7 days at a time.
Point proven, there's a whole demographic of the population below you that would quite like a holiday at all, while you're turning your nose up at their options.
Does Bob deserve any holiday at all Vs me making a decision between spending the extra on Bike Verbier Vs Switchbacks? Or does someone in the public services deserve a pay rise Vs my discretionary choice of expensive holidays.
People on £30k have £10k more discretionary spending power than those on £20k who have effectively zero. Extrapolate to £57k.....
tins - your post was unclear but is now a little clearer.
My quote was not selective; I used your first sentence in full.
another big bet on carbon capture
oh god we are doomed
oh god we are doomed
There's a couple of potentially worthwhile projects in the pipeline to decarbonise industrial gas on Teesside and domestic gas arround Whitby.
I'm not wholly convinced but they're definitely worthwhile large scale experiments.
The idea of creating hydrogen from renewable electricity is a bit of a pipe dream, but there's probably room to decarbonise natural gas.
The idea of creating hydrogen from renewable electricity is a bit of a pipe dream, but there’s probably room to decarbonise natural gas.
Easier, quicker, raises considerably more money (or "is much cheaper" depending on which way you look at it)
But no, got to play around with random untried technology that "might" help a decade down the line while we pander to "the hardworking motorist".
****s.
@thisisnotaspoon:
No, but they are on 2x 150% of the NMW
Wow. 2 x 150% of poverty. Because that's what the NMW is. What hate you must have for people to want to drag the only just comfortable back into "breadline" - as you called it.
Lets not even kick the rich. Lets just kick people who are doing "OK" eh?
there's a view that having tax on the nmw (rather than just having a slightly lower minimum wage) helps as it makes people feel more like they're contributing to society. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it sounds sensible.
the wife works for a company in the child care sector senior management reaction "Idiotic" "will cause chaos" "poorly thought out" "will accelerate nursery closures" :/
£3k doesn’t get much of an all inc for a family these days unless you like sharing your Cerveza in Shagaloof with Bob from Essex, his wife & six children for 7 days at a time.
TUI is currently offering 7 days all inclusive package to Bay Gardens Marina Haven, flights from London, two adults and two kids, dep 27 April for £3266. That sounds very nice to me. Plenty of people would love a holiday in Magaluf...
TUI is currently offering 7 days all inclusive package to Bay Gardens Marina Haven, flights from London, two adults and two kids, dep 27 April for £3266. That sounds very nice to me. Plenty of people would love a holiday in Magaluf…
its an extra grand during the easter holidays, and doesn't have enough beds for 4 people to sleep in. otherwise great.
So now we're going from "£3000 doesn't get you all inclusive in the Caribbean" to "£3000 doesn't get you all inclusive in the Caribbean at short notice and with separate rooms for the kids"? 🤣
So now we’re going from “£3000 doesn’t get you all inclusive in the Caribbean” to “£3000 doesn’t get you all inclusive in the Caribbean at short notice and with separate rooms for the kids”?
more £3000 won't buy you enough beds to sleep in during the school holidays