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I have to say that he sounds like a liability to the democrats now - it's not a good look and marginally worrisome thinking he's "in control" (he probably isn't but you know what I mean).
Thoughts?
Go. Obviously.
Many of us will recognise “stubborn old person in denial” syndrome.
Listened to The rest is Politics US and News Agents USA, both reckon he will go, but no one seems to know how to do it and who to replace him with.
Its like the audience member stating "are you two the best we've got?"
I can't help thinking that this is a question that should have been asked with 4 years to go, not with 4 months to go.
Good man in danger of destroying his legacy....oh and letting in a man that could do untold damage to the world.
I can’t help thinking that this is a question that should have been asked with 4 years to go, not with 4 months to go.
Indeed. He had two jobs four years ago - reintroduce grown up government and foster an environment in which a protégé would flourish ready for '24.
Looking more like a liability with every passing day. Time to go.
Its a pretty sorry state of affairs.
Democrats are damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Biden stays Trump wins, its a near certainty.
If Biden goes, who will replace him? Kamala Harris vs Trump doesn't look like a better bet and it doesn't look like there are any better options.
It’s incredible to think Trump and Biden are the best that America has as leaders.
It’s incredible to think Trump and Biden are the best that America has as leaders.
I think the word you're looking for is maybe "sad"
Absolutely go.
There is no way that anyone at that age should be exposed to the pressures and demands of that role.
Added to the obvious decline it is an absolute no brainer.
Should there be age limits on all public offices? I would argue that there should and it should be set at about 70ish
I remember when my father-in-law was in the early stages of dementia before he was officially diagnosed. We were all telling him he shouldn't drive his car because he was going to kill someone and he was in complete denial. Biden is that but scaled up to being in charge of the world's largest military and nuclear arsenal. He should go obviously, I've being saying it for months.
Sadly I think he should go.
As I've said on previous threads and others have said on here, if this is really the best America has to offer then it is a really sorry state of affairs.
The United States has a population approaching 350 million, it claims to be one of the greatest, if not the greatest, democracy in the world. And it has some of the most capable expertise in the world, in every area of human activity.
If they are really scratching their heads trying to think who should replace a president who is clearly no longer up to the job then that suggests a remarkable failure of their democratic process. The choice should be almost infinite.
Can’t let Trump in.
I fear that it might be too late. If it's this diminished Biden or a.n.other, Trump is going to win this. Not the popular vote as that is irrelevant - but in the 6 marginal states that matter the damage is now done.
They should swap the running order... keep Biden as running mate for Harris. She's the only one that can step into the breach at short notice while subduing any claims of chaos or panic. Biden's experience still valuable, but if you can't imagine your president being capable in four years time, voters will stay at home rather than have their vote support the mess that could all become.
I fear Trump will win the election and that will largely be the fault of the Democrats in not addressing this earlier. I think they will drop Biden but only after he's clung on for as long as possible. Any replacement will be seen as too last minute, too desperate by the electorate.
Biden sees it as his life's mission to defeat Trump, he sees it as his duty, I genuinely think that's where his head is at and that's why he's going to be hugely reluctant to pass the batton and giving him a way to duck out with dignity is going be a really tough needle to thread.
It's massively unfair, he's actually lead a genuinely effective and competent administration in very challenging circumstances, he's earned a 2nd term.
But... it has to happen, he's clearly in rapid decline, he's not the man he was even a year ago, he has a great team around him but that's just not enough and him staying almost guarantees the final ascension of American Fascism (and I do not use that term lightly).
Crap situation all round.
Limited knowledge on US politics, but it appears Trump wants him to stay so it's probably best that he gets replaced by someone younger and sharper.
Go
I can’t help thinking that this is a question that should have been asked with 4 years to go, not with 4 months to go.
Indeed. He had two jobs four years ago – reintroduce grown up government and foster an environment in which a protégé would flourish ready for ’24.
This sums it all up for me...the democrats should have been planning his replacement from day 1 of his presidency! Damned if they do, damned if they don't though: he should go but changing candidate this close to the election looks terrible too. Massive failing by the democrats
Whether he's up to the job or not (& I think he's not) the narrative is there now and every single misstep he does will be amplified
He needs to be gone now, but theres huge issues with that, legally the campaign funds he's raised cannot go to anyone else, except Harris & Republican lawmakers are already preparing appeals should to block her or anyone else getting them. A new candidate , other than Harris, would need to get the massive campaign team in place, book speaking venues etc etc in a few weeks.
Realistically Harris is the most likely replacement but shes not that popular and the Harris birther conspiracy theories are already out there & already being mentioned by Trump: very good wired podcast about them here:
https://pod.link/1516843565/episode/210b88c73fa5f17bafa21d5ee46edb3b
all that said in some polls shes beating Trump! and with Biden out of the way and a younger candidate on offer all of a sudden the focus would very quickly switch to Trumps declining mental state and some of the very senior moments he's been having that are completely overshadowed by Biden
Another option and probably a long odds bet that might get you a good return is President Michelle Obama....
4 years ago I put a small bet on AOC for 2024 US president. She could be so good. Absolutely no chance of that happening now. What a mess.
Clooney should put his money where his mouth is and stand for election.
Many of us will recognise “stubborn old person in denial” syndrome.
Biden or Trump?
FLOTUS appears to be working him from the back, as per Nancy and Ron a few years ago. For the good of his party, country and the free world it's obvious he has to go, and soon, to allow a younger, more capable, replacement to be selected to debate / defeat Trump.
It's amazing if people vote for "The President" and not the party they want to lead the country. Imagine being American and having to choose, surely you'd go by the politics of the Democrats and just hope Biden gets replaced sometime into his tenure.
4 years ago I put a small bet on AOC for 2024 US president. She could be so good. Absolutely no chance of that happening now.
Much like the UK Labour party preferred the tories to Corbyn, the democrats would rather Trump be president than AOC.
4 years ago I put a small bet on AOC for 2024 US president. She could be so good. Absolutely no chance of that happening now.
Much like the UK Labour party preferred the tories to Corbyn, the democrats would rather Trump be president than AOC.
was never a chance, average American voter (not to mention their media) is so far to the right of AOC they cant even see her
Mixing up Zelensky with Putin? Short of actually pissing himself on stage in front of the press, I'm struggling to think of a worse scenario for him.
I have a £50 bet on Newsom to be next President, placed after the debate. Might be a nice little earner.
Biden needs to go.
Problem is Harris is not very popular and the funding they have raised so far can only be spent on Biden and Harris.
Looks like Project 2025 is incoming.
Keep Biden
Assassinate Trump
Recent Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity comes in handy here. I'm sure it could be dressed up as an 'official act'.
I just don't think that there is any way that a new candidate outperforms Biden electorally. Once you get past a certain point in the electoral cycle, the Democrat politicians and funders/supporters would have been better off keeping their misgivings to themselves.
He could be semi-comatose and still be a better option for the US and the world than Trump.
Biden should go but before he does he should “accidently” approve the assassination of Putin & his crew.
Go out with a bang. A big one.
given his latest gaff which world leader do you think will be the accidental recepient of this?
Biden has to go. His job from Day 1 should have been to create a platform for a new generation of Democratic leaders, and Harris in particular, to compete and win against a chaotic and corrupt Republican Party. He has totally failed to do that. Harris wasn't a great performer as VP but he also has not given her room to grow.
Biden has persevered through personal tragedy (his wife and child being killed, another son dying of cancer, another son in addiction and crime) by throwing himself ever harder into work. And so far it has paid off. But he cannot and should not pull this last trick off.
There is still time for the Dems to nominate an ass-kicking, public-connecting candidate at the convention.
Run with Harris and Gavin Newsom.
I like them individually but 2 Californians? No way.
Michelle Obama would be a terrible idea. She has never been elected and has no platform. She is very smart but she's not going to win over anyone that's not already a D. And it would be better for US politics to move away from political dynasties...Kennedy, Bush, Clinton, Obama...
Feels like the choice is between two poor options.
- He stays in post and loses (definitely)
- Messy replacement process and new candidate has a very slim chance of taking it...
The constant commentary about means they really have to go with 2, soon, and then really nail trump's mental decline.
Lots of respect for Biden, but I fear he's at a point that he's no longer able to make a coherent decision.
There is the 25th amendment (was discussed while trump was president) don't know if that's in discussion for Biden.
https://www.history.com/news/presidents-ill-25-amendment
The problem is not so much Biden, but the fact that Harris is a dud electorally. It's a fundamentally flawed ticket, and Biden should have had the sense, as a man in his 80s, to advance a vp who could not just step in if he was incapacitated during his term, but be high-profile enough to build support throughout that period.
Biden is a good man who is old and frail. Trump is an old, frail, rapist felon who tried to overthrow the government, was bezzie mates with the most high profile sexual abuser in recent history, is facing charges under the espionage act, and has promised a presidency of revenge against his enemies.
I’m pretty disappointed in the display of arrogance and egotism from Joe Biden and his close advisers.
They’re willing to risk the chaos of a Trump win because they refuse to do the right thing and have him step aside.
Many would be Democrat voters will abstain if Biden is on the ticket, allowing Trump to win.
Piss poor politics.
It’s amazing if people vote for “The President” and not the party they want to lead the country. Imagine being American and having to choose, surely you’d go by the politics of the Democrats and just hope Biden gets replaced sometime into his tenure.
The whole point of having separation of powers and separate elections for the executive is to ensure that it is not just an extension of the dominant parliamentary party.
There was originally no need for a President to even be a member of a party and IIRC there was an early tradition of the runner up in the Presidential election being appointed as VP by the victor. Admittedly those are probably obsolete and unrecoverable now
If Biden was my elderly neighbour I wouldn't ask him to look after my cats . I would think it was too much to ask an elderly neighbour.
They’re willing to risk the chaos of a Trump win because they refuse to do the right thing and have him step aside.
I'll bet a shiny penny that their thinking is the opposite, that only Biden can beat Trump at this point and that stepping aside would let Trump in.
Problem is that the polling all this time has shown Biden is preferred to all the other options, and it's too late to swap him out now
for the US media to be banging on about Biden's age when DJT is as old and even worse physical and mental shape is is hypocritical
Problem is that the polling all this time has shown Biden is preferred to all the other options, and it’s too late to swap him out now
I think you need to check the most recent polling.
And no, it's definitely not too late.
for the US media to be banging on about Biden’s age when DJT is as old and even worse physical and mental shape is is hypocritical
The difference is during the debate Trump met expectations. It's difficult to tell if there's any decline because there was so little of substance there to begin with.
Biden fell far short of expectations to the point that he is simply no longer able to mount a campaign. His unscripted press conference yesterday did little to help.
even worse physical and mental shape is is hypocritical
I'm not sure this is actually true. Trump should be in worse physical state given his diet and being a fat ****, but I reckon if they'd played that golf match, Trump would cope with it better.
Mentally - not sure. Trump has always rambled total bollocks. Biden was a different league. It's the decline that's the worry. It sounds like apart from the unforgivable gaffs last night (I mean if you were going to get two names wrong all night those would be the two you'd really really not want to **** up) he was actually pretty good. Better than Trump would even have been.
Given the rate of decline - can you imagine what he'll be like on Jan 5th 2029 in what would be in theory his last day in power should be be reelected?
If Trump gets reelected, he needs to stay away from theaters and open topped vehicles.
Get him some Werther's originals and a nice cup of tea.
In the US you can't be a Commercial pilot after the age of 65. Yet it's perfectly OK to have the nuclear codes
Go figure..
Where is Obama?
Can't go for a third term.
I think you need to check the most recent polling.
And no, it’s definitely not too late.
The trouble is it's swing from
Anyone but Biden could beat Trump
To Biden is the best chance of loosing but only by a bit.
Unless there's even more recent polling it just seems to point to them having left this far too late.
There's also the problem of convincing someone at the apex of their political career to actually stand in a race they have a very real chance of loosing. Picture it, you're the governor of a blue state, people are talking about you as the next democratic president, do you a) ruin that by loosing to Trump and end up spending 4 years as the butt of Trumps insults , or b) wait it out until 2028 and actually become president (unless Trump isn't a disaster domestically in which case DeSantis will probably win).
What is his reasoning?
Likely because he'd be a one term president. Generally viewed as a huge negative. Bush Sr took flack for being a one term president. It's basically pure ego. I'm more confused by who is enabling him. Is he so surrounded by grifting sycophants telling the emperor that his new clothes look fantastic?
And no, it’s definitely not too late.
It is, as Nevada will not allow a replacement candidate on the ballot (it's in the state rules). So that's a minus 6 on the Electoral College votes before things begin.
...if you can’t imagine your president being capable in four years time...
Not my president, but honestly can't imagine the old coffin dodger being alive in 4 years time.
Unless there’s even more recent polling it just seems to point to them having left this far too late.
Figuring out how to ask this question is difficult, but at the moment there are several candidates who are polling at least as well as Biden or slightly better. None of whom are 'The Candidate' and many of whom don't have good recognition nationally.
Biden's numbers are not going to improve. He might have good days and bad days but the good days do not bring people back to supporting him and every bad day he losses more and more votes.
Putting another candidate front and centre at least gives them a chance to gain support.
Basically with Biden there is no chance. With someone else there is at least a chance.
I know the yanks roll their eyes when a brit says there is more to consider than the US in a US election, but that doesn't stop it being true.
IMO Biden cannot win. The Democrats' only option is to ditch him for a younger, sparkier nominee, then go all out on Trump's obvious mental unsuitability for (re)election.
If Trump wins, Ukraine is a goner. Europe as a whole will be way less up for a fight without Uncle Sam in the dugout behind us. You can forget Palestine as anything other than a wasteland with people living in holes in the ground for 5 years as well.
Putin's investments do seem to payout in the end, you have to hand it to him...
(don’t worry I’m only in charge of the stationary cupboard)
And that's not going anywhere...
Clooney should put his money where his mouth is and stand for election.
Tbf I don't think he was suggesting it should be him.
given his latest gaff which world leader do you think will be the accidental recepient of this?
There's a certain Brazilian journeyman goalie who isn't sleeping well at night
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_(footballer)
Tbf I don’t think he was suggesting it should be him.
Tell you what though - in the new twisted world, there are worse suggestions. Housewives vote (and a bit of bro crush) might get him over the line. Whoever it is needs to have instant appeal - no time for the public to get to know them. So a celeb might sadly be what's needed.
I guess you just have to find who would work in the only 6 states that actually matter.
Can’t go for a third term.
There is a sort of workaround
The 22nd Amendment only requires that someone not be elected to the Presidency more than twice. Someone who was elected to two terms on his own is still eligible to be Vice President and to rise to the Presidency upon the death, resignation or removal of the President.
So Obama could stand for Vice President with everyone openly knowing that Biden will resign on day 1
There's a checklist called The Keys To The Whitehouse, developed by US historian Allan Lichtman. Using it he's successfully predicted most presidents since 1984, including Donald Trump in 2016 despite polls saying that Hillary couldn't lose
Prof. Lichtman says "that it is governance, not campaigning, that determines who will win a presidential election". I hope that the electorate see it that way too because Lichtman, who is a Democrat, is currently backing Joe Biden although he hasn't made a final prediction
Have a run through them and see what you think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House
Maybe it'll just have to be accepted that Trump gets his second and final term then is gone. Not something I relish though.
Tell you what though – in the new twisted world, there are worse suggestions.
I'd put money on cloony having a fairly decent shout against Trump. Sure he doesn't have any political exp (but neither did Trump), but he's famous, good looking, appeals to the female vote, fairly articulate, zero skeltons in the closet that im aware of, and by all counts makes a decent cup of coffee
I imagine he'd be able to tear Trump a new one in any debate, purely by pointing out that the orange fool is a lying, senile, criminal degenerate. The actual political stuff (ie how to run a country) he can be briefed on by his advisers. He'll be able to deliver a good line on the debate stage at least
Is Terry Crews Dem or Rep?
When Biden ran against Trump, I groaned and wished that the Democrats had someone younger. But they didn't. Biden had been successful as a centrist politician for decades and had the support of Black voters. He was the best candidate to take on Trump, regardless of what the fringe left said. However, I hoped that he would commit to only serving one term and retiring.
Problem is, he didn't. Nobody who spent decades in politics and then made it to the White House would do that, it's human nature. He has been a very successful president as far as getting liberal policy enacted in face of a hostile Congress and unsympathetic Supreme Court. So, he's not going to quit and trying to force him to quit would be catastrophic. The debate debacle hasn't caused his poll numbers to tank (most people don't watch debates and most voters have already made up their minds).
https://twitter.com/DomenicoNPR/status/1811689720805552274
So, no, he's not going to quit and Trump is a much worse choice in every way (FFS, electrocution or sharks???). So, time to move on and just get behind electing Biden. Like it or not, he's going to be the candidate, he's not going to quit and trying to force him out will just hand the election to Trump.
Given the fact that the Supreme Court just ruled that presidents have immunity from crime when in office. I don't understand why Biden hasn't arranged for Trump to meet with a terrible accident. Job jobbed, he can then retire, and the rest of the world can thank him. The Republicans can come to their senses and get things back to some sort of normality.
Honestly, as a plan; I can't see any downsides.
If Trump wins, he’ll find a way to stay past 5 years this time. With the courts backing him. And there’s always his daughter waiting in the wings…
Did you see him presenting his youngest son to the rally crowd the other day? He wants to keep the grift going into the next generation (and Jr and Eric are obviously hopeless).
Given the fact that the Supreme Court just ruled that presidents have immunity from crime when in office.
Scary
If Trump wins, he’ll find a way to stay past 5 years this time.
Do they hold elections during wartime ?
The debate debacle hasn’t caused his poll numbers to tank (most people don’t watch debates and most voters have already made up their minds)
The point in having such an early debate was to have a strong performance and turn his lacklustre numbers around. Remember that Trump can be behind and still win (so being level is basically a guaranteed win).
The other reason to have an early debate was to give them plenty of time to hit the eject button if he had a shocker.
He had a shocker and yet people are still not sure how to find the eject button.
Does anyone genuinely believe he can win? If so, what do you think is going to change in the next 4 months that is going to turn the race around?