You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I know this topic has been done to death on here over the years... But since the Berlingo is the STW car of choice I thought another thread would do no harm. 🙂
I currently run a 1.2 petrol 2016 Polo which is a great car, with 4 Thule bike carriers on the roof it's able to carry all our bikes + a tonne of gear. I'm fed up of worrying about the bikes on the roof however and have always fancied the convenience of just being able to sling them inside, there's never really more than the 2 of us inside. Also, the mpg of the polo is okay ~43-35 with the bike racks on the roof, but fully loaded with bikes I'm hovering around 40mpg, sometimes below. Ideally I'd like a van but tax/insurance make the car version so much cheaper to run per year. It's used for a daily 40 mile commute as well.
Will I get 4 bikes inside (front wheels off), including an XL road bike and a 650b+ XL hard tail? My wife's bikes are considerably smaller so not too worried about them. To be fair it's only ever 4 bikes when we go on holiday, more usually it will be 1/2. With 4 in, will this leave space for other gear?
Any tips on what to look for/what a sensible age/mileage/price range to be looking at?
Yes, detail to follow
Considering 2 bikes can be wheeled in complete (inc an XL 29er fs) with only 2 of the 3 seats out and still leave space for 2 dogs and a weeks worth of camping kit I’d say easy to get 4 in with front wheels off and still have room, but not for 4 people as well.
This is an XL 29er with the seat post all the way up (34” inside leg) and one seat only removed.
It's a yes from me.
Had an older Berlingo for nearly ten years. 2002 1.6 petrol.
Absolutely fantastic car.
Yes from me but I'm biased as I love the one I use.
I'm not so sure of the latest model though as removing the seats leaves a lip so not as comfy to sleep in.
Wife has a Berlingo L2 van. L2 equals just over a foot longer in the body, same wheelbase. Three big bikes plus gear is all we've ever put in there but you'll definitely get four inside with some gear packed inbetween. The bikes go into the L2 fore and aft with the wheels on; room to spare. You can also doss down in the back in an emergency. Her van has done coming up for 60k in 7 years. It's had tyres, brakes & regular servicing which I do on the drive. Parts are cheap & for what we paid when we bought it new has been the most practical & reliable vehicle we've owned. The 1.6 Hdi isn't going to set any performance records but it pulls the van up to motorway speed no problem. I'd buy another in a heartbeat.
Another yes.
bikes straight in - or is more relevent these days.... Pram straight in no folding
Comfy driving position
Tailgate to hide under (with an opening windscreen for when a bell end parks right on your bumper )
Cheap
Easy to work on.
On our third and a combined 320k miles between them.
I have done 3 bikes and 3 people for a day ride. So you'll be fine. But you might need to put some thought into using all the height.
The newer longer wheel base would be even better
Thanks all, sounds pretty positive.
@mattbee looks like we have similar dimensions. I was wondering how you fit an XL 29er in with just one seat out, based on the dimensions of my bike and what I could find of the berlingo online, but twisting the bars makes it obvious.
To be honest 95% of the time it's just the two of us, so will probably leave the seats out, I can't remember the last time we had the rear seats up in our polo.
Definitely looking used so will be the version pre 2018 update. Any ideas on what a sensible entry point for one of these is? Looking at price vs age/mileage? Anything to be concerned about with those of a slightly higher mileage?
I had one for 5 years, it died a month ago. I paid £1,500 and probably spent about £1,000 in maintenance and repairs over the 5 years of europe/scotland/wales trips and general abuse. When I say abuse it was driven like a Golf GTI in the hands of a teeneager, redlined, burnouts, sliding round roundabouts, the lot (just safer because about 10mph is enough to make it break traction). Just make sure you change the oil every 6,000 if it's a 1.6HDI
It was great
Fits:
2 bikes with both wheels on and 2 people
3 bikes and 3 people, two bikes with one wheel off, one with both on
4 bikes and 4 people and all gear for a week roadtrip with towbar rack
5 bikes and 2 people all inside with front wheels off
A ridiculously large tip run
Do not buy a Partner, the Partnerist is the sworn enemy of the Blingoer
40 mile a day commute would have me questionning it.
The commute is presumably 5 days a week and the bike carrying a lot less?
I've got an SMAX currently which is great wheels off for three bikes and three passengers. We bought it to try and eat a "luxury camping" setup. It really was pushing the limits of space on a two week trip so we bought a trailer so that motivation is gone. I love it, but when I consider how much road space it takes up, the number of times it will ever be loaded to its full capacity, the amount of lone occupant driving it does and the 25-40% improvement in economy I'd get from a Golf or similar I cannot see me replacing it with another.
A golf is not a small.car.
Perhaps your smax is excessive but a Berlingo actually takes up less (by just under 100mm) room.than a golf while being much more useful
The one I'm using is a 2014 model Partner Tepee Outdoor - has been very good in the 5 years I've used it - it did need an engine clean when we first got it (was a Mobility vehicle and had ridiculously low miles on it so engine hadn't really been used much so was gunked up); apart from that, it has had a leak in the rear part of the slider for the rear door - which flooded the boot space - all sealed up again and been perfect since and car all dried out; otherwise, it seems to need a new tailgate number plate lightbulb every yearly service and I also appear to have to replace the driver side dipped headlight every 14-18 months.
Only other issue I've had with it is the horn stopped working - got it replaced but it is a shockingly poor sounding horn - apparently the factory version, but Noddy's car sounds more masculine! Apparently the horn isn't entirely waterproof so the water gets in and fills it and results in it failing - unsure if it is common but in the grand scheme of things, these all seem to be small things that I can live with.
Car carries 3 bikes (on rear towball rack), 3 people, tent that sleeps 5 (one of us likes a bit of space in the 'house'), camping gear, cooking gear, inflatable canoe (for 3 people) and the canoe kit plus clothes for a fortnight and food comfortably - once the tent is up and the bodies are out, the bikes can go in the car for a a bit more overnight security.
I really like it and I'm looking for a replacement but it is proving difficult as the price of them has rocketed...it looks like we may get what we paid for this when we move this on - which seems mental!
it looks like we may get what we paid for this when we move this on – which seems mental!
yep ive been keeping an eye out for one for a mate and unless you wanted a gopping colour or a rattly wheelchair conversion.
anything in outdoor spec (equivalent to XTR in berlingo speak) with 1 owner and circa 40 k was listing up to 10k ..... we paid 9k of that 3 years ago for the same thing but with 5000miles on clock ....
its reverting to normalish prices now though thankfully. - the mid range 5 k market for berlingos has always been shit high milage vehicles - i think the first owners only keep em 3 years (motability mainly) and the second owners seem to hold on to them till the death.
@trail_rat & @DickBarton if you were buying another what sort of age/mileage would you be looking at for a used vehicle? DickBarton, how come you're looking for a replacement, getting too long in the tooth? As you say it seems that around 5k you're hitting newer and fairly high miles, or 10+ years old and motability miles (which I suspect won't have done the diesel engines much good with lots of short hops). I probably have max 7k or so, although would happily part with less.
I've bought at the bottom /sub £1500
And I've bought near new /3yo
The middle.road @5k just seems to offer the worst of both worlds.
I'd do either again tbh but the near new was much less fear of unknown for me.
Car isn't mine - it is my partner's and she tends to replace her vehicle every 2-3 years. This was an expensive buy for her and it has worked out well. Nothing wrong with the car really - the door runners on the rear doors are showing signs of age, but perfectly functional and working, but otherwise that is it.
It hasn't been treated like a prized possession and it is needing a good wash/clean, but I have made sure anything that doesn't sound or feel right it has gone straight to the garage to be checked and anything wrong is fixed, so mechanically and functionally, it is still brilliant.
I think the new style model came in 2018, so I'd be looking for a late 2017 model if possible - although the newer model is slightly longer, I do seem to have a real concern about the lip in the rear when the seats are out - I don't sleep in the car often, but I've had great sleeps when I have and I'd hate to think I was losing that (although I suspect a couple of mats and then an inflatable mattress would solve that concern).
Likely to depend on price, if a newer model was there at a good price then I suspect it would be considered, but although it is being considered to be replaced, I'm not actively looking just now and I'm pretty sure my partner isn't either as she has other things to be sorting out that are more important to her.
Newer model is now sold my Cit/Puggy and Vauxhall, so same vehicle but different badges and interiors, so there might be more choice in the newer model and differing price points.
although the newer model is slightly longer,
in XL format the new car is significantly longer than the old one - 30cm more behind the middle row of seats, the opening is ~15cm taller too (useful as bikes get bigger)
the badge point is a good one though - the vauxhall version is from £10k at 2 years old, because vauxhall
Had two of the early style Partners and wish I had one now.
Had the diesel and the petrol. Petrol is better.
Could stand a 29er upright in the back diagonal no need to take a wheel off.
Only fault with mine was a cracked turbo heat shield that used to rattle.
Part was £35 plus £300 to fit.
It rattled I got used to it.
I've got an old (M59) Berlingo Forte (pronounced "Poverte"). His name is Benoit.
Do it!
The boot length isn't that much longer than any other estate car (I could sleep in my C-max with the seats out and a box in the footwell. And that's basically a Focus with a dad bod).
But the massive square opening means you just wheel bikes in, no dicking about with getting bars under the boot lip, or dropping posts. It's also big and square all the way forward, I've currently got my CX bike on the back seat with the front wheel off as the boot is full of work kit. Normal (mountain) bike arrangement is front wheel off, dropper down, and push it in backwards so the wheel is on top of the folded seats, then bungee it to the seat clip on the C pillar. Realistically you could get 3 bikes and bodies in it, and still have the space behind the single rear seat for luggage.
Different versions had different rear seat arrangements. Try and find one that either folds totally flat*, or unclips and store them in the garage.
I'd also invest in loads of bungees and elastic cargo netting. It's tempting to store a lot of rattly crap in that huge boot!
I kinda wish they did the multispace with barn doors, then I could fit a permanent bike rack.
*why do manufacturers do this? Hatchbacks and saloons the bottom bench flips up and the back folds down so you end up with a flat load area. Why do bigger cars seem to prefer ridiculous fold UP seats rather than fold DOWN seats?
*why do manufacturers do this? Hatchbacks and saloons the bottom bench flips up and the back folds down so you end up with a flat load area. Why do bigger cars seem to prefer ridiculous fold UP seats rather than fold DOWN seats?
cars tend to have a lumpy floor, so the seat squab is going down into the footwell, once the back is folded its flat with the (much higher) boot floor, under which is things like the fuel tank, spare wheel, fancier suspension and maybe rwd stuff.
van based things have a flat floor already (at the cost of things like complex suspension, awd, I would imagine spare wheel, etc), giving the load height everyone loves, the flipside is there's not really anywhere for seats to fold into without leaving a lump.
Lots of detail from everyone else that covers pretty much everything.
Got ours 7 years ago - ex-motability so had service history and 40k miles. Never had any major issues with it. Frequent oil changes and service every year has done fine. It was 10 years old last year so had the timing belt done.
It's now on 104k miles and has been all over the UK and Europe without missing a beat. 3 up with 4 bikes down to the Alps. Been used as a removal van for everything except the bif furniture. Carted 3, then 4, of us about on umpteen camping trips with all the stuff that entails.
In short, unbelievably useful and when this one dies we'll probably just get another.
@trail_rat & @DickBarton if you were buying another what sort of age/mileage would you be looking at for a used vehicle?
Loads are 3 years old ex motability (but not converted). So I think 3 years old is a good age to look at. I think I paid £9500 ish from a main dealer , good warranty, Outdoor spec' 115 hp 18,000 miles. I bet they are more than that now
Compared to the Renault grand scenic it replaced it:
Has the same volume to store stuff but is taller and a bit harder to pack
Has better mpg commuting as it is lighter
Has worse mpg on a motorway as it less aerodynamic
We (me and two mates before covid) quite often used ours as an uplift vehicle, so 3 bikes plus 3 people in with two of the bikes being pretty long and all fitted in fine.
I've only skim read the above but make sure you get one with the singular rear seats so you can pull them out for different configurations. We have the middle rear permanently out so two bikes slide in down the middle quickly.
I'd be very happy to keep mine but 2 growing kids who both ride mean we've now crossed tipping point and i cant often be bothered to keep putting the rack on, so having to size up. As a result of being happy with the Berlingo i'm looking at Dispatches as you appear to get more for your money that the T6 etc. options.
A Dispatch is also on my 'not-mentioned' radar as I'm pretty sure it will be an outright no if it gets mentioned. I suspect it is too big for us as a weekly runner and likely only really be utilised a small number of times a year.
Thanks all. Interesting thoughts here. Sounds like budget wise I'm a bit in no man land well above bangernomics but also below the bulk of decent cars around 3 years old. It seems that you can't get an 09 onwards van for less than about 2k at the moment, which seems a little steep when these are 12 years on with 150-250k miles... There is a 70k 16 plate Berlingo near me at the moment, but not sure if at £5900 it represents that good value when my current polo isn't worth much more and is far lower mileage and, let's be honest does the job. Will keep an eye on the market, perhaps more will become available as things (hopefully) start to open up again.
Sounds like budget wise I’m a bit in no man land well above bangernomics but also below the bulk of decent cars around 3 years old.
There's a huge covid-tax applied to small vans at the moment, fleets aren't buying new ones, so dealers cant get stock, and parcel delivery drivers want them.
If you're mechanically competent and can live with the pitfalls of bangernomics, I'd look at older ones. After a bare minimum of TLC the only 'quirk' mine seems to be left with is the AC makes a horrific noise. A problem solved by not putting the AC on. Might just need re-gassing as it worked and was quiet when I bought it 6 months ago. But between the sticky out opening rear windows (what are they called) that don't buffet like roll down windows, sunroof, and tinted windows I'm not sure it'll actually get particularly hot?
A 100% price inflation from £400 to £800 for a 15-year-old 140,000mile multispace is bad, but it's not quite £6k for a 5 year old 140,000mile van bad.
Comfy and incredibly practical but look a bit sh&& and handle terribly when compared to a regular car like a Golf or Focus.
Plus they're ancient and based on a van so can't see them being very safe.
Plus they’re ancient and based on a van so can’t see them being very safe
They are how ever much more up to date than your facts.
compared to a regular car like a Golf or Focus.
I've had both. And both were pretty shit at putting a bike in the back with the wheels on -nee impossible with anything modern . I guess it depends if you value being able to fly around above the speed limit(as the berlingos more than capable of handling fine below the speed limit)
I think the handling is fine. I really like the higher driving position
I seem to remember that the pre Euro 4 diesel was known for the turbo bearings going
Is there any significant difference between the PSA brands?
The Vauxhall Combo XL looks good VFM...
The older versions of the Berlingo were van-based, the previous model and the current one aren't as they are based on the C4 platform...
I need to go for a nosey at the Vauxhall version, if it is cheaper it might be the way forward - but might depend on the engine as the one in the Partner/Berlingo is a known and works well. A previous car (Fiat Bravo) had a vauxhall gearbox and if the tempt went below 0c, the gear selector cables froze and you couldn't move the gear stick - 15 minutes of running the car to warm it up meant it would then allow gear changes - so I'd prefer no Vauxhall bits in the drivetrain (but suspect that may not be possible).
I've no idea if that is the case on this vehicle or not and I've no idea on how to find that out accurately, but it is another variant of the vehicle that is worthy of a look.
the gear selector cables froze and you couldn’t move the gear stick – 15 minutes of running the car to warm it up meant it would then allow gear changes – so I’d prefer no Vauxhall bits in the drivetrain (but suspect that may not be possible).
Bad design is bad design. Water likely got in and got trapped in a low point and that's what froze.
Some.new cables with plenty grease about probably would have solved that.
Original Berlingo was a van based rear with a car based front end - the 406coupe subframe engine and gear box bolted straight in for some 200bhp V6 action....before everyone realised they bolted straight in and the cost of donors rocketed.
The gen 2 was a C4/ 308 chassis platform. And this continued into the gen 3 which has even more cars based off of it.
Looks like the combo is the same engine as berlingo but for some reason on the auto express test it got 39mpg vs 45mpg of berlingo.
The berlingo came 1st as better value but combo seems better value 2nd hand
vauxhall is now part of PSA, the vauxhall combo is just a badge-engineered version of the berlingo - I'd be amazed if any of it other than the cad drawings for the logo came out of the old GM design shops
The berlingo came 1st as better value but combo seems better value 2nd hand
autoexpress do love a berlingo 😉 - came out on top against a caddy life as well - although im not surprised having had them as taxis before - interior makes the frenchies look plush.
Combo has less stick on body styling and alloys
Interior has no coloured highlights
Few toys not very common on combo - e.g. opening hatch glass, adaptive cruise etc
Seems the combo albeit rare does or did come in a SWB 7 seat, the others you have to buy the LWB to get 7 seats
With the 7 seat cars you get 3 separate mid row seats that fold / remove individually rather than 60/40 of the 5 seaters. So the combo 7 is the only one with that flexibility in a SWB
Original Berlingo was a van based rear with a car based front end – the 406coupe subframe engine and gear box bolted straight in for some 200bhp V6 action….before everyone realised they bolted straight in and the cost of donors rocketed.
The back axle swaps too IIRC? You just lower it by moving the torsion bars round a notch or two.
But having had the c-max previously. Im going to wildly disagree. The berlingo does not handle like a focus. Even a bloated Cmax model 🤣. It wobbles, rolls, and understeers for days even with winter tyres only on the front!
- yeah, sounds obvious, but 3 warranty jobs to replace stuff didn't seem to have it solved...Some.new cables with plenty grease about probably would have solved that.
The berlingo does not handle like a focus. Even a bloated Cmax model 🤣. It wobbles, rolls, and understeers for days even with winter tyres only on the front!
Indeed but yours is based on a van .
It's a 306 rear end and torsion bar iirc
Modern ones are a world away. I'd still agree not as good as a focus or a golf at high speed . But at appropriate speeds for conditions the Berlingo handles just dandy.
But it does Excel at the much more useful aspect of taking large loads much easier than either the golf or the focus.
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been covered, but my Berlingo top tip if you ended up with a base spec one is buy an aftermarket cruise control module. They can be had for about £15 and fitted in 10 minutes. I paid someone £25 to plug the car into a laptop and tick a couple of boxes and hey presto you've got a mega comfy motorway cruiser for 40 sheets.
My old knacker of a B9 is currently for sale and the thing I'm going to miss most apart from the cavernous space is the cruise control and armrests combination for motorway miles.
But it does Excel at the much more useful aspect of taking large loads much easier than either the golf or the focus.
Yea, I'll grant you that.
My opinion was set when I first got mine and came off the motorway at normal motorway speeds, engine braked down the slip road to normal traffic on the roundabout speeds and .............. ohh we're not making it round to the right hand lane. It's fun to drive in the same way a series landrover is fun to drive, complete with bouncing around, wobbling ride, wobbly gearlever with a massive throw, three pedals which all feel very mechanical, but their effect is slightly more limited than you ever anticipate.
I bought it as an experiment when the C-max got written off as I test drove one when I got that ~9 years ago and didn't like it and the OH veto'd it for looking like a sunshine bus (that's the polite translation). The plan is to run it on a bangernomics basis* then trade up to something similar but newer. So far I'm absolutely loving the practicality and motorway comfort. Although B-road driving is a chore to the extent I've actually stopped using the satnav on some journeys and take the motorway as far as possible even if there's a theoretically quicker route across A/B roads.
*The axle is defying convention by rusting from the outside, and the cambelt is due in 2 years so those two alone probably limit it's life to ~24months even if it's otherwise reliable.
wobbly gearlever with a massive throw, three pedals which all feel very mechanical, but their effect is slightly more limited than you ever anticipate.
Tbh none of that bothered me but getting into the gen 2 was like getting into a range rover having had my 1987 ninety by comparison
Tbh I miss the mechanicals. We had a pedal cable snap while.on the west coast and with some.cable.ties had us back on the road after about 20minutes.our old frontera had the TPS go. That thing was going no where
Still tempted, right at the bangernomics end I could maybe just keep it as a second bike wagon and keep the polo for my wife's commuting duties and save myself her wrath when it doesn't start at 8am 20 miles from home at the end of a night shift...
Currently a few that are peeking my interest. An old guy selling up due to needing an auto and looking for £1500 for an 08 with 50k miles. Panels have taken a bit of a beating but the MOT history ain't too bad. Looks like he's used it as a general load lugger. I guess this will be one of the earliest HDI engines so maybe cause for concern?
Then 2 others, which aren't in the bangernomics realm at all, but could be okay. A 2011 XTR with 118k miles and a full MOT that sounds pretty well looked after with timing belt and water pump done at 93k and 2 front springs, nearside side top mount, 2 wishbone bushes, new front disc and pads, rear pads and a nearside ball joint all done for the recent MOTin Feb. So sounds a fairly well maintained motor as long as that can all be backed up with receipts.Pictures make it look in good condition too. There is one more at nearly an identical age/mileage/price but the history isn't as compelling... Hmm.
Comfy driving position
Not if you’re nearly 6’, with an arthritic left knee, in which case they’re the most uncomfortable cars it’s possible to find, and I’ve driven hundreds - just the thought of getting into one and driving it a couple of hundred yards makes me feel nauseous, having to drive one a couple of hundred miles would almost have me in tears; thankfully I no longer have to do that.
However, the latest version, which isn’t van-based, or if it is, is a completely different platform, is vastly improved and a much nicer place to be.
New one is PSA’s EMP2 platform which they use for everything from 308 to SUV/crossovers to the midsize vans (Dispatch/Expert).
Previous gen was PF2 and shared with 308, C4 and the like of that era. Pre 2008 was a proper, specific van.
Your right I should have been clearer
Its Comfy to drive unless your countzero.
I'm 6 ft 3 and both gen 1 ( van and car) and gen 2 are dandy.
i've got a 'classic' 2005 Multispace Desire with the modutop. Love it but I'm thinking of changing it. I now spend about £500 per year on maintenance/repairs which is not too bad considering age. Most of the repairs are wear and tear related.
Those of you with 08-18 models, what sort of real world mpg do you achieve?
45mpg 2015 outdoor(slightly higher and heavier than standard model) - With the addition of thule racks-non aero - Bike trailer for jnr takes up too much room for bikes inside safely) 1.6HDI 92bhp.
thanks to the wonder of aerodynamics itll do 50-55 on a run on country roads at 55.
but on the dualer at 70 on cruise its more or less always 45 unless a strong headwind.
Those of you with 08-18 models, what sort of real world mpg do you achieve?
Dash says 46mpg on mine. Mix of local and longer journeys but no daily commute. Same engine as Trail rat above.
I think I'm getting about 42mpg, but journeys are short mainly. If I go for longer drives (not been for a while) then I get about 50mpg.
Partner Tepee Outdoor 115bhp 1.6 HDi engine